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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 11:17 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 11:15 NoctemSC wrote:
Yet another nerf for Terran and another buff for Toss.
You're seriously making Terran the worst race to choose. Players at all levels who play terran will agree that the mechanics are harder than any race and with these continued changes it's going to be even hard.
If you disagree, go play terran for a month.
They've just successfully made ghosts the most useless unit aside from emp'ing HT and festors. Whereis the Casters for both toss and Zerg are immensely powerful. Both are good mid/late game with huge splash damage. This is ridiculous. Then EMP has huge splash as well?
Emp splash is only 1.5 and it does no damage. Both Storm and Fungal do huge AoE damage. If a protoss spreads his HT then you lose. Period. Late game toss is ridiculously hard to stop as terran.
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On February 11 2012 11:05 lachy89 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 11:03 Scila wrote:On February 11 2012 10:56 NoobCrunch wrote:On February 11 2012 10:51 On_Slaught wrote:On February 11 2012 10:48 lachy89 wrote:
Zerg player
APM change > Awesome
Pheonix Change > I like it
Mule Change > Seems fine to me
Ghost Change > a bit too much, make snipe unusable on Massive and be done with it. Seems like making Snipe unusable on Massive Units would have been a solution that made much more sense. The 2 shot infestor is nice tho. That is assuming that ghost snipe was imbalanced in the first place. Which it wasn't...TvZ was still roughly 50/50 in late games, in fact Zerg has a general advantage in the late game... I believe it would be better for the match up if ghosts countered 1 T3 unit and not the other, making ghosts unable to snipe ultras would make the match-up more interesting imo, and also shouldn't provide zerg with an extreme advantage (I don't think many people would complain that ultras are OP due to not being snipes).
?
So let's say a Terran masses Ghosts to prepare for Lategame and the Zerg then just builds Ultras. Terran lost. GG
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What the hell is a terran t3 army anyway? Bc and thor? What the fuck does that beat?
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On February 11 2012 11:18 Cloud9157 wrote:
I like how Terran are complaining that Ghosts can't counter every t3 anymore.
Like Ultras. Man, Terran has nothing that can do decent against those guys...
Ultra aren't the issue, do you know how hard it is to stop brood/infestor/corrupter as Terran with ANY unit other than ghosts?
If you go viking Zerg can mass fungal and let the corrupters rape .
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On February 11 2012 11:19 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 11:05 lachy89 wrote:On February 11 2012 11:03 Scila wrote:On February 11 2012 10:56 NoobCrunch wrote:On February 11 2012 10:51 On_Slaught wrote:On February 11 2012 10:48 lachy89 wrote:
Zerg player
APM change > Awesome
Pheonix Change > I like it
Mule Change > Seems fine to me
Ghost Change > a bit too much, make snipe unusable on Massive and be done with it. Seems like making Snipe unusable on Massive Units would have been a solution that made much more sense. The 2 shot infestor is nice tho. That is assuming that ghost snipe was imbalanced in the first place. Which it wasn't...TvZ was still roughly 50/50 in late games, in fact Zerg has a general advantage in the late game... I believe it would be better for the match up if ghosts countered 1 T3 unit and not the other, making ghosts unable to snipe ultras would make the match-up more interesting imo, and also shouldn't provide zerg with an extreme advantage (I don't think many people would complain that ultras are OP due to not being snipes). ? So let's say a Terran masses Ghosts to prepare for Lategame and the Zerg then just builds Ultras. Terran lost. GG
First of all, not necessarily: ultras aren't that great. Second of all, you'll have tanks. Third of all, if you blindly mass any one unit you deserve to lose. GG.
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On February 11 2012 11:17 rogzardo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 11:17 darkness wrote:On February 11 2012 11:15 NoctemSC wrote:
Yet another nerf for Terran and another buff for Toss.
You're seriously making Terran the worst race to choose. Players at all levels who play terran will agree that the mechanics are harder than any race and with these continued changes it's going to be even hard.
If you disagree, go play terran for a month.
They've just successfully made ghosts the most useless unit aside from emp'ing HT and festors. Whereis the Casters for both toss and Zerg are immensely powerful. Both are good mid/late game with huge splash damage. This is ridiculous. Then EMP has huge splash as well? No, they nerfed that.
I'm pretty sure storm splash = EMP splash. 
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If Snipe nerf go through, i guess a slightly nerf on Broodlord health and colossi speed should be in order to make Endgame TvX less miserable than it already is.
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As a terran player, this is very discouraging. TvP wasnt tweaked at all for terran late game yet Blizzard made TvZ late game even harder.
We need to find out how to deal with brood lord infester now. Only units that will kill them are marines and vikings but fungal just rapes them hard because they clump like crazy. At least make the damn raven viable by buffing HSM.
I swear, people thought terran was OP because of the maps and I don't remember last time terran got buffed, ever.
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On February 11 2012 11:21 jgelling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 11:19 ChaosTerran wrote:On February 11 2012 11:05 lachy89 wrote:On February 11 2012 11:03 Scila wrote:On February 11 2012 10:56 NoobCrunch wrote:On February 11 2012 10:51 On_Slaught wrote:On February 11 2012 10:48 lachy89 wrote:
Zerg player
APM change > Awesome
Pheonix Change > I like it
Mule Change > Seems fine to me
Ghost Change > a bit too much, make snipe unusable on Massive and be done with it. Seems like making Snipe unusable on Massive Units would have been a solution that made much more sense. The 2 shot infestor is nice tho. That is assuming that ghost snipe was imbalanced in the first place. Which it wasn't...TvZ was still roughly 50/50 in late games, in fact Zerg has a general advantage in the late game... I believe it would be better for the match up if ghosts countered 1 T3 unit and not the other, making ghosts unable to snipe ultras would make the match-up more interesting imo, and also shouldn't provide zerg with an extreme advantage (I don't think many people would complain that ultras are OP due to not being snipes). ? So let's say a Terran masses Ghosts to prepare for Lategame and the Zerg then just builds Ultras. Terran lost. GG First of all, not necessarily: ultras aren't that great. Second of all, you'll have tanks. Third of all, if you blindly mass any one unit you deserve to lose. GG.
You obviously have no experience playing terran. Siege tanks are crap vs ultras with armor.
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On February 11 2012 11:21 jgelling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 11:19 ChaosTerran wrote:On February 11 2012 11:05 lachy89 wrote:On February 11 2012 11:03 Scila wrote:On February 11 2012 10:56 NoobCrunch wrote:On February 11 2012 10:51 On_Slaught wrote:On February 11 2012 10:48 lachy89 wrote:
Zerg player
APM change > Awesome
Pheonix Change > I like it
Mule Change > Seems fine to me
Ghost Change > a bit too much, make snipe unusable on Massive and be done with it. Seems like making Snipe unusable on Massive Units would have been a solution that made much more sense. The 2 shot infestor is nice tho. That is assuming that ghost snipe was imbalanced in the first place. Which it wasn't...TvZ was still roughly 50/50 in late games, in fact Zerg has a general advantage in the late game... I believe it would be better for the match up if ghosts countered 1 T3 unit and not the other, making ghosts unable to snipe ultras would make the match-up more interesting imo, and also shouldn't provide zerg with an extreme advantage (I don't think many people would complain that ultras are OP due to not being snipes). ? So let's say a Terran masses Ghosts to prepare for Lategame and the Zerg then just builds Ultras. Terran lost. GG First of all, not necessarily: ultras aren't that great. Second of all, you'll have tanks. Third of all, if you blindly mass any one unit you deserve to lose. GG.
So, Terran does not mass Ghosts. Zerg goes Broodlords. Terran lost. GG
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On February 11 2012 02:40 Thorzain wrote:
I really feel that they overdid the snipe nerf. Ghosts really isn't a counter to ultralisks (300 energy to kill 1 ultralisk), and not a hard-counter to brood lords (they are good against them but not imba).
I feel that 20 damage is too much of a removal. When snipe doesn't even one shot a baneling or a zergling, something is wrong. Will be useless against zealots as well because the normal attack is just as strong as the snipe will be against light units.
Thorzain was spoken. Looks like the micro race is going to require even more skill now after this nerf, though I'll bet that it will be reversed.
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On February 11 2012 11:18 NoctemSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 11:17 darkness wrote:On February 11 2012 11:15 NoctemSC wrote:
Yet another nerf for Terran and another buff for Toss.
You're seriously making Terran the worst race to choose. Players at all levels who play terran will agree that the mechanics are harder than any race and with these continued changes it's going to be even hard.
If you disagree, go play terran for a month.
They've just successfully made ghosts the most useless unit aside from emp'ing HT and festors. Whereis the Casters for both toss and Zerg are immensely powerful. Both are good mid/late game with huge splash damage. This is ridiculous. Then EMP has huge splash as well? Emp splash is only 1.5 and it does no damage. Both Storm and Fungal do huge AoE damage. If a protoss spreads his HT then you lose. Period. Late game toss is ridiculously hard to stop as terran.
You're right, EMP does not take away all of the shields of every Protoss unit except Colossi, Carriers, and the Mothership. It clearly needs to be 500 shield damage.
EMP is the only AoE that can remove energy from a unit.
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On February 11 2012 11:20 rogzardo wrote:
What the hell is a terran t3 army anyway? Bc and thor? What the fuck does that beat?
BC beats roaches and Thors beat Overseers.
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If Blizzard is concerned about the extremely niche scenario of mass mass ghosts countering all of zerg tier 3 (let's ignore that they could always switch to something like roach+baneling if you are ever invest 40+ supply into ghosts and likely easily win) it would make much more sense if ultralisks were given an immunity to snipe similair to that of neural parasite. As a masters T who loves macro games I do not look forward to having to end both of the interracial match-ups in under 15 minutes.
Ravens actually work decently against corruptors but the issue is you will never have them out in the numbers and with the energy you need to counter a decent hive timing.
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On February 11 2012 11:22 NoctemSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 11:21 jgelling wrote:On February 11 2012 11:19 ChaosTerran wrote:On February 11 2012 11:05 lachy89 wrote:On February 11 2012 11:03 Scila wrote:On February 11 2012 10:56 NoobCrunch wrote:On February 11 2012 10:51 On_Slaught wrote:On February 11 2012 10:48 lachy89 wrote:
Zerg player
APM change > Awesome
Pheonix Change > I like it
Mule Change > Seems fine to me
Ghost Change > a bit too much, make snipe unusable on Massive and be done with it. Seems like making Snipe unusable on Massive Units would have been a solution that made much more sense. The 2 shot infestor is nice tho. That is assuming that ghost snipe was imbalanced in the first place. Which it wasn't...TvZ was still roughly 50/50 in late games, in fact Zerg has a general advantage in the late game... I believe it would be better for the match up if ghosts countered 1 T3 unit and not the other, making ghosts unable to snipe ultras would make the match-up more interesting imo, and also shouldn't provide zerg with an extreme advantage (I don't think many people would complain that ultras are OP due to not being snipes). ? So let's say a Terran masses Ghosts to prepare for Lategame and the Zerg then just builds Ultras. Terran lost. GG First of all, not necessarily: ultras aren't that great. Second of all, you'll have tanks. Third of all, if you blindly mass any one unit you deserve to lose. GG. You obviously have no experience playing terran. Siege tanks are crap vs ultras with armor.
Yes, if you group them all in a big cluster with no support units except the 20 ghosts you built blindly, then yes.
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On February 11 2012 11:21 NoctemSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 11:18 Cloud9157 wrote:
I like how Terran are complaining that Ghosts can't counter every t3 anymore.
Like Ultras. Man, Terran has nothing that can do decent against those guys... Ultra aren't the issue, do you know how hard it is to stop brood/infestor/corrupter as Terran with ANY unit other than ghosts? If you go viking Zerg can mass fungal and let the corrupters rape .
I think Ghosts have some AoE ability that can remove 100 energy from a unit.
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On February 11 2012 11:22 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 11:18 NoctemSC wrote:On February 11 2012 11:17 darkness wrote:On February 11 2012 11:15 NoctemSC wrote:
Yet another nerf for Terran and another buff for Toss.
You're seriously making Terran the worst race to choose. Players at all levels who play terran will agree that the mechanics are harder than any race and with these continued changes it's going to be even hard.
If you disagree, go play terran for a month.
They've just successfully made ghosts the most useless unit aside from emp'ing HT and festors. Whereis the Casters for both toss and Zerg are immensely powerful. Both are good mid/late game with huge splash damage. This is ridiculous. Then EMP has huge splash as well? Emp splash is only 1.5 and it does no damage. Both Storm and Fungal do huge AoE damage. If a protoss spreads his HT then you lose. Period. Late game toss is ridiculously hard to stop as terran. You're right, EMP does not take away all of the shields of every Protoss unit except Colossi, Carriers, and the Mothership. It clearly needs to be 500 shield damage. EMP is the only AoE that can remove energy from a unit.
Yes but storm can do so much more damage to a Terran army than emp can. Besides, toss has a more powerful army overall. This is not just about TvP either, you're forgetting TvZ which is the more relevant matchup for this nerf.
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I'm still appalled that people think Snipe is overpowered versus Zerg t3. It takes a ridiculous amount of Snipes to kill a SINGLE t3 Zerg unit. Just putting the damage aside, it's also a huge APM requirement in a major battle. If you sit there with your clumped up 14 Ghosts and the Zerg attacks you with ling/bling/infestor/blord (relatively standard late game) all your marines and ghosts will die very quickly while you try to snipe the Blords. Yes, if we put Ghosts and Broodlords or Ultras in a cavuum where nothing touches them, the Ghosts will win. But you also have to spread units out, stim, siege, kite, etc in a late game TvZ engagement.
If Ghosts were truly so good then we would see Terran win late game TvZ at the pro level MUCH more often. Which we don't. It's actually slightly in Zerg favor.
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Zerg late game vs Terran, which was already laughably easy to win, just got easier. From an objective perspective I'm not entirely sure what they're going for.
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Snipe: "too good against hive"
Fungal: good against marine, marauder, viking, all the core counters. No problem.
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EPT
