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Patch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 111

Forum Index > SC2 General
4449 CommentsPost a Reply
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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.

Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions.
NoctemSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States771 Posts
February 11 2012 02:18 GMT
#2201
On February 11 2012 11:17 darkness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:15 NoctemSC wrote:
Yet another nerf for Terran and another buff for Toss.
You're seriously making Terran the worst race to choose. Players at all levels who play terran will agree that the mechanics are harder than any race and with these continued changes it's going to be even hard.
If you disagree, go play terran for a month.
They've just successfully made ghosts the most useless unit aside from emp'ing HT and festors. Whereis the Casters for both toss and Zerg are immensely powerful. Both are good mid/late game with huge splash damage. This is ridiculous.


Then EMP has huge splash as well?

Emp splash is only 1.5 and it does no damage. Both Storm and Fungal do huge AoE damage. If a protoss spreads his HT then you lose. Period. Late game toss is ridiculously hard to stop as terran.
http://www.twitch.tv/noctemsc <--Most epic fun times
ChaosTerran
Profile Joined August 2011
Austria844 Posts
February 11 2012 02:19 GMT
#2202
On February 11 2012 11:05 lachy89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:03 Scila wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:56 NoobCrunch wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:51 On_Slaught wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:48 lachy89 wrote:
Zerg player

APM change > Awesome
Pheonix Change > I like it
Mule Change > Seems fine to me
Ghost Change > a bit too much, make snipe unusable on Massive and be done with it.


Seems like making Snipe unusable on Massive Units would have been a solution that made much more sense. The 2 shot infestor is nice tho.



That is assuming that ghost snipe was imbalanced in the first place.


Which it wasn't...TvZ was still roughly 50/50 in late games, in fact Zerg has a general advantage in the late game...


I believe it would be better for the match up if ghosts countered 1 T3 unit and not the other, making ghosts unable to snipe ultras would make the match-up more interesting imo, and also shouldn't provide zerg with an extreme advantage (I don't think many people would complain that ultras are OP due to not being snipes).


?

So let's say a Terran masses Ghosts to prepare for Lategame and the Zerg then just builds Ultras. Terran lost. GG
rogzardo
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
610 Posts
February 11 2012 02:20 GMT
#2203
What the hell is a terran t3 army anyway? Bc and thor? What the fuck does that beat?
NoctemSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States771 Posts
February 11 2012 02:21 GMT
#2204
On February 11 2012 11:18 Cloud9157 wrote:
I like how Terran are complaining that Ghosts can't counter every t3 anymore.

Like Ultras. Man, Terran has nothing that can do decent against those guys...

Ultra aren't the issue, do you know how hard it is to stop brood/infestor/corrupter as Terran with ANY unit other than ghosts?
If you go viking Zerg can mass fungal and let the corrupters rape .
http://www.twitch.tv/noctemsc <--Most epic fun times
jgelling
Profile Joined February 2011
55 Posts
February 11 2012 02:21 GMT
#2205
On February 11 2012 11:19 ChaosTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:05 lachy89 wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:03 Scila wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:56 NoobCrunch wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:51 On_Slaught wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:48 lachy89 wrote:
Zerg player

APM change > Awesome
Pheonix Change > I like it
Mule Change > Seems fine to me
Ghost Change > a bit too much, make snipe unusable on Massive and be done with it.


Seems like making Snipe unusable on Massive Units would have been a solution that made much more sense. The 2 shot infestor is nice tho.



That is assuming that ghost snipe was imbalanced in the first place.


Which it wasn't...TvZ was still roughly 50/50 in late games, in fact Zerg has a general advantage in the late game...


I believe it would be better for the match up if ghosts countered 1 T3 unit and not the other, making ghosts unable to snipe ultras would make the match-up more interesting imo, and also shouldn't provide zerg with an extreme advantage (I don't think many people would complain that ultras are OP due to not being snipes).


?

So let's say a Terran masses Ghosts to prepare for Lategame and the Zerg then just builds Ultras. Terran lost. GG

First of all, not necessarily: ultras aren't that great. Second of all, you'll have tanks. Third of all, if you blindly mass any one unit you deserve to lose. GG.
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
February 11 2012 02:21 GMT
#2206
On February 11 2012 11:17 rogzardo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:17 darkness wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:15 NoctemSC wrote:
Yet another nerf for Terran and another buff for Toss.
You're seriously making Terran the worst race to choose. Players at all levels who play terran will agree that the mechanics are harder than any race and with these continued changes it's going to be even hard.
If you disagree, go play terran for a month.
They've just successfully made ghosts the most useless unit aside from emp'ing HT and festors. Whereis the Casters for both toss and Zerg are immensely powerful. Both are good mid/late game with huge splash damage. This is ridiculous.


Then EMP has huge splash as well?


No, they nerfed that.


I'm pretty sure storm splash = EMP splash.
Gheizen64
Profile Joined June 2010
Italy2077 Posts
February 11 2012 02:21 GMT
#2207
If Snipe nerf go through, i guess a slightly nerf on Broodlord health and colossi speed should be in order to make Endgame TvX less miserable than it already is.
Seen as G.ZZZ [COPPER SCUM] on Steam
ssi.bal-listic
Profile Joined October 2010
United States568 Posts
February 11 2012 02:22 GMT
#2208
As a terran player, this is very discouraging. TvP wasnt tweaked at all for terran late game yet Blizzard made TvZ late game even harder.
We need to find out how to deal with brood lord infester now. Only units that will kill them are marines and vikings but fungal just rapes them hard because they clump like crazy. At least make the damn raven viable by buffing HSM.
I swear, people thought terran was OP because of the maps and I don't remember last time terran got buffed, ever.
"It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you" "The strong one doesn't win, the one that wins is strong"
NoctemSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States771 Posts
February 11 2012 02:22 GMT
#2209
On February 11 2012 11:21 jgelling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:19 ChaosTerran wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:05 lachy89 wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:03 Scila wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:56 NoobCrunch wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:51 On_Slaught wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:48 lachy89 wrote:
Zerg player

APM change > Awesome
Pheonix Change > I like it
Mule Change > Seems fine to me
Ghost Change > a bit too much, make snipe unusable on Massive and be done with it.


Seems like making Snipe unusable on Massive Units would have been a solution that made much more sense. The 2 shot infestor is nice tho.



That is assuming that ghost snipe was imbalanced in the first place.


Which it wasn't...TvZ was still roughly 50/50 in late games, in fact Zerg has a general advantage in the late game...


I believe it would be better for the match up if ghosts countered 1 T3 unit and not the other, making ghosts unable to snipe ultras would make the match-up more interesting imo, and also shouldn't provide zerg with an extreme advantage (I don't think many people would complain that ultras are OP due to not being snipes).


?

So let's say a Terran masses Ghosts to prepare for Lategame and the Zerg then just builds Ultras. Terran lost. GG

First of all, not necessarily: ultras aren't that great. Second of all, you'll have tanks. Third of all, if you blindly mass any one unit you deserve to lose. GG.

You obviously have no experience playing terran. Siege tanks are crap vs ultras with armor.
http://www.twitch.tv/noctemsc <--Most epic fun times
ChaosTerran
Profile Joined August 2011
Austria844 Posts
February 11 2012 02:22 GMT
#2210
On February 11 2012 11:21 jgelling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:19 ChaosTerran wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:05 lachy89 wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:03 Scila wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:56 NoobCrunch wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:51 On_Slaught wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:48 lachy89 wrote:
Zerg player

APM change > Awesome
Pheonix Change > I like it
Mule Change > Seems fine to me
Ghost Change > a bit too much, make snipe unusable on Massive and be done with it.


Seems like making Snipe unusable on Massive Units would have been a solution that made much more sense. The 2 shot infestor is nice tho.



That is assuming that ghost snipe was imbalanced in the first place.


Which it wasn't...TvZ was still roughly 50/50 in late games, in fact Zerg has a general advantage in the late game...


I believe it would be better for the match up if ghosts countered 1 T3 unit and not the other, making ghosts unable to snipe ultras would make the match-up more interesting imo, and also shouldn't provide zerg with an extreme advantage (I don't think many people would complain that ultras are OP due to not being snipes).


?

So let's say a Terran masses Ghosts to prepare for Lategame and the Zerg then just builds Ultras. Terran lost. GG

First of all, not necessarily: ultras aren't that great. Second of all, you'll have tanks. Third of all, if you blindly mass any one unit you deserve to lose. GG.


So, Terran does not mass Ghosts. Zerg goes Broodlords. Terran lost. GG
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
February 11 2012 02:22 GMT
#2211
On February 11 2012 02:40 Thorzain wrote:
I really feel that they overdid the snipe nerf. Ghosts really isn't a counter to ultralisks (300 energy to kill 1 ultralisk), and not a hard-counter to brood lords (they are good against them but not imba).

I feel that 20 damage is too much of a removal. When snipe doesn't even one shot a baneling or a zergling, something is wrong. Will be useless against zealots as well because the normal attack is just as strong as the snipe will be against light units.


Thorzain was spoken. Looks like the micro race is going to require even more skill now after this nerf, though I'll bet that it will be reversed.
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
February 11 2012 02:22 GMT
#2212
On February 11 2012 11:18 NoctemSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:17 darkness wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:15 NoctemSC wrote:
Yet another nerf for Terran and another buff for Toss.
You're seriously making Terran the worst race to choose. Players at all levels who play terran will agree that the mechanics are harder than any race and with these continued changes it's going to be even hard.
If you disagree, go play terran for a month.
They've just successfully made ghosts the most useless unit aside from emp'ing HT and festors. Whereis the Casters for both toss and Zerg are immensely powerful. Both are good mid/late game with huge splash damage. This is ridiculous.


Then EMP has huge splash as well?

Emp splash is only 1.5 and it does no damage. Both Storm and Fungal do huge AoE damage. If a protoss spreads his HT then you lose. Period. Late game toss is ridiculously hard to stop as terran.


You're right, EMP does not take away all of the shields of every Protoss unit except Colossi, Carriers, and the Mothership. It clearly needs to be 500 shield damage.

EMP is the only AoE that can remove energy from a unit.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
bucckevin
Profile Joined April 2011
858 Posts
February 11 2012 02:23 GMT
#2213
On February 11 2012 11:20 rogzardo wrote:
What the hell is a terran t3 army anyway? Bc and thor? What the fuck does that beat?


BC beats roaches and Thors beat Overseers.
AlexanderDebois
Profile Joined October 2011
Kyrgyzstan38 Posts
February 11 2012 02:23 GMT
#2214
If Blizzard is concerned about the extremely niche scenario of mass mass ghosts countering all of zerg tier 3 (let's ignore that they could always switch to something like roach+baneling if you are ever invest 40+ supply into ghosts and likely easily win) it would make much more sense if ultralisks were given an immunity to snipe similair to that of neural parasite. As a masters T who loves macro games I do not look forward to having to end both of the interracial match-ups in under 15 minutes.

Ravens actually work decently against corruptors but the issue is you will never have them out in the numbers and with the energy you need to counter a decent hive timing.
jgelling
Profile Joined February 2011
55 Posts
February 11 2012 02:23 GMT
#2215
On February 11 2012 11:22 NoctemSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:21 jgelling wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:19 ChaosTerran wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:05 lachy89 wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:03 Scila wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:56 NoobCrunch wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:51 On_Slaught wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:48 lachy89 wrote:
Zerg player

APM change > Awesome
Pheonix Change > I like it
Mule Change > Seems fine to me
Ghost Change > a bit too much, make snipe unusable on Massive and be done with it.


Seems like making Snipe unusable on Massive Units would have been a solution that made much more sense. The 2 shot infestor is nice tho.



That is assuming that ghost snipe was imbalanced in the first place.


Which it wasn't...TvZ was still roughly 50/50 in late games, in fact Zerg has a general advantage in the late game...


I believe it would be better for the match up if ghosts countered 1 T3 unit and not the other, making ghosts unable to snipe ultras would make the match-up more interesting imo, and also shouldn't provide zerg with an extreme advantage (I don't think many people would complain that ultras are OP due to not being snipes).


?

So let's say a Terran masses Ghosts to prepare for Lategame and the Zerg then just builds Ultras. Terran lost. GG

First of all, not necessarily: ultras aren't that great. Second of all, you'll have tanks. Third of all, if you blindly mass any one unit you deserve to lose. GG.

You obviously have no experience playing terran. Siege tanks are crap vs ultras with armor.

Yes, if you group them all in a big cluster with no support units except the 20 ghosts you built blindly, then yes.
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
February 11 2012 02:24 GMT
#2216
On February 11 2012 11:21 NoctemSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:18 Cloud9157 wrote:
I like how Terran are complaining that Ghosts can't counter every t3 anymore.

Like Ultras. Man, Terran has nothing that can do decent against those guys...

Ultra aren't the issue, do you know how hard it is to stop brood/infestor/corrupter as Terran with ANY unit other than ghosts?
If you go viking Zerg can mass fungal and let the corrupters rape .


I think Ghosts have some AoE ability that can remove 100 energy from a unit.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
NoctemSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States771 Posts
February 11 2012 02:24 GMT
#2217
On February 11 2012 11:22 Cloud9157 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:18 NoctemSC wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:17 darkness wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:15 NoctemSC wrote:
Yet another nerf for Terran and another buff for Toss.
You're seriously making Terran the worst race to choose. Players at all levels who play terran will agree that the mechanics are harder than any race and with these continued changes it's going to be even hard.
If you disagree, go play terran for a month.
They've just successfully made ghosts the most useless unit aside from emp'ing HT and festors. Whereis the Casters for both toss and Zerg are immensely powerful. Both are good mid/late game with huge splash damage. This is ridiculous.


Then EMP has huge splash as well?

Emp splash is only 1.5 and it does no damage. Both Storm and Fungal do huge AoE damage. If a protoss spreads his HT then you lose. Period. Late game toss is ridiculously hard to stop as terran.


You're right, EMP does not take away all of the shields of every Protoss unit except Colossi, Carriers, and the Mothership. It clearly needs to be 500 shield damage.

EMP is the only AoE that can remove energy from a unit.


Yes but storm can do so much more damage to a Terran army than emp can. Besides, toss has a more powerful army overall. This is not just about TvP either, you're forgetting TvZ which is the more relevant matchup for this nerf.
http://www.twitch.tv/noctemsc <--Most epic fun times
Scila
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1849 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 02:28:03
February 11 2012 02:26 GMT
#2218
I'm still appalled that people think Snipe is overpowered versus Zerg t3. It takes a ridiculous amount of Snipes to kill a SINGLE t3 Zerg unit. Just putting the damage aside, it's also a huge APM requirement in a major battle. If you sit there with your clumped up 14 Ghosts and the Zerg attacks you with ling/bling/infestor/blord (relatively standard late game) all your marines and ghosts will die very quickly while you try to snipe the Blords. Yes, if we put Ghosts and Broodlords or Ultras in a cavuum where nothing touches them, the Ghosts will win. But you also have to spread units out, stim, siege, kite, etc in a late game TvZ engagement.

If Ghosts were truly so good then we would see Terran win late game TvZ at the pro level MUCH more often. Which we don't. It's actually slightly in Zerg favor.
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 02:27:01
February 11 2012 02:26 GMT
#2219
Zerg late game vs Terran, which was already laughably easy to win, just got easier. From an objective perspective I'm not entirely sure what they're going for.
architecture
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States643 Posts
February 11 2012 02:26 GMT
#2220
Snipe: "too good against hive"
Fungal: good against marine, marauder, viking, all the core counters. No problem.
tpfkan
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