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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 09:26 XiGua wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 09:20 OPnitemare wrote:On February 11 2012 08:05 Doz wrote:
I get a kick out of all of the zergs saying saying that the snipe change is necessary because it counters everything, yet post-infestor/fungal buff, they were defending the position saying it was necessary to have 1 unit from which they could get so much mileage because they have weak anti-air. Don't worry, I could probably find 10,000 quotes from various forums about this if need be.
Basically, Zerg player logic has become: I can have the infestor which is great against just about any other unit in the game, but Terrans can't have a unit that's great against just about any other unit in the game because that would make it too easy for them to beat my attacks.
Do they even realize this is how they sound? How fucking hypocritical they are? Infestor kill time vs viking: 12 seconds Care to guess what the kill time of ghosts vs a brood lord is? Cuz I'd be willing to bet its a heck of a lot less than 12 seconds. Also if you can keep the infestors away, you can stop them from landing more fungals, as you have 12 seconds or so to do so. Whereas with a Brood lord vs a ghost, the ghost can kill it within 2 seconds. Keep in mind that the fungal can kill several vikings at the same time. But that's not the point. Each race is different. For example: one race has free dropships, another one's are insanely beefy and can warp units and the third can heal. You can't really do that comparison Doz.
"But that's not the point. Each race is different. For example: one race has free dropships, another one's are insanely beefy and can warp units and the third can heal."
Wait a second. Ok insanely beefy and can warp in units, Protoss, can heal, Terran, free.....? Not sure which race you're thinking of but Zerg's dropships aren't free. First, of all they are our SUPPLY DEPOTS so when we send them in to drop and they die, we can get supply blocked and have to wait to build anything else until they are replenished. Second, they cost larva so everyone we make is either a worker or an army unit that doesn't get made. Third, Overlord speed is 100/100 and takes 60 seconds to research, and the actual drop ability is 200/200 and takes 130 seconds to research. Just FYI, medivacs are 100/100 and take 42 seconds to build and warp prisms are 200/0 and take 50 seconds to build. So Zerg "dropships" aren't free. In fact, they are the most expensive.
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Really bad to see Blizzard taking massive leaps in the wrong direction. Terrible patch, terrible map pool. Season 6 is looking bad.
User was temp banned for this post.
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If you don't like adapting to patches, I'd suggest that you play a Command & Conquer game. If you don't LOVE the fact that Blizzard cares enough to constantly think about whether something is balanced and allowing players equal opportunities to win games, StarCraft may not be right for you. EA treats C&C a lot more short-term, which is why StarCraft has been the most successful competitive e-Sport of all RTS games.
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On February 11 2012 09:35 Iluvatarr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 09:26 XiGua wrote:On February 11 2012 09:20 OPnitemare wrote:On February 11 2012 08:05 Doz wrote:
I get a kick out of all of the zergs saying saying that the snipe change is necessary because it counters everything, yet post-infestor/fungal buff, they were defending the position saying it was necessary to have 1 unit from which they could get so much mileage because they have weak anti-air. Don't worry, I could probably find 10,000 quotes from various forums about this if need be.
Basically, Zerg player logic has become: I can have the infestor which is great against just about any other unit in the game, but Terrans can't have a unit that's great against just about any other unit in the game because that would make it too easy for them to beat my attacks.
Do they even realize this is how they sound? How fucking hypocritical they are? Infestor kill time vs viking: 12 seconds Care to guess what the kill time of ghosts vs a brood lord is? Cuz I'd be willing to bet its a heck of a lot less than 12 seconds. Also if you can keep the infestors away, you can stop them from landing more fungals, as you have 12 seconds or so to do so. Whereas with a Brood lord vs a ghost, the ghost can kill it within 2 seconds. Keep in mind that the fungal can kill several vikings at the same time. But that's not the point. Each race is different. For example: one race has free dropships, another one's are insanely beefy and can warp units and the third can heal. You can't really do that comparison Doz. "But that's not the point. Each race is different. For example: one race has free dropships, another one's are insanely beefy and can warp units and the third can heal." Wait a second. Ok insanely beefy and can warp in units, Protoss, can heal, Terran, free.....? Not sure which race you're thinking of but Zerg's dropships aren't free. First, of all they are our SUPPLY DEPOTS so when they die we have to rebuild more. Second, they cost larva so everyone we make is either a worker or an army unit that doesn't get made. Third, Overlord speed is 100/100 and takes 60 seconds to research, and the actual drop ability is 200/200 and takes 130 seconds to research. Just FYI, medivacs are 100/100 and take 42 seconds to build and warp prisms are 200/0 and take 50 seconds to build. So Zerg "dropships" aren't free. In fact, they are the most expensive.
Meh, you guys be swimming in ovies late game anyways. 
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On February 11 2012 09:36 Diomedes7 wrote:
Really bad to see Blizzard taking massive leaps in the wrong direction. Terrible patch, terrible map pool. Season 6 is looking bad.
Hey hey. The map pool is great!
This patch won't go live for at least another couple of months and will have to be thoroughly tested on the PTR chances are it won't even make into Season 6.
Season 6 is looking great.
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terran tears incomingggggggggggg
User was banned for this post.
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On February 11 2012 09:33 Darknat wrote:
One reason I stopped laddering was the constant nerfs to Terran. I play Starcraft 2 for fun and having to adapt to changes is not fun.
Watch out for life then...
Seriously though, it's Blizzard's fault that they made terran such a strong race to begin with. If they hadn't then terran's wouldn't have to be nerfed every patch and people wouldn't be upset. It's like when toss lost KA and they got really upset after that. But terran had the equivalent of a whole bunch of KAs that are slowly being taken away, and terran's feel their options depleting. It sucks but it'll be worth it if it balances the game.
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I'm glad the removed arid plateau, but I wish they removed shattered temple before or along with xel naga.
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I love shattered temple after I realized I could abuse the cliff TvZ with siege tanks. 
100% winrate TvZ Shattered. Proud!
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the patch looks pretty good on a whole, but I agree that the ghost nerf seems to be a bit too much. Even I think 25 may be a bit too little and I dont play terran
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On February 11 2012 09:37 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 09:36 Diomedes7 wrote:
Really bad to see Blizzard taking massive leaps in the wrong direction. Terrible patch, terrible map pool. Season 6 is looking bad. Hey hey. The map pool is great! This patch won't go live for at least another couple of months and will have to be thoroughly tested on the PTR chances are it won't even make into Season 6. Season 6 is looking great.
A couple months? These take a couple weeks, and only twice has anything been reverted.
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On February 11 2012 09:32 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 09:29 Boiler Bandsman wrote:On February 11 2012 09:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 11 2012 09:18 UBavarice wrote:
Fucking great. This is was snipe is supposed to be about: Countering HT:s, not slaughtering a maxed zerg army. WD Blizz! Except Ghosts already have a better anti-caster spell in EMP. Having Snipe being designed as an anti-caster weapon only is totally pointless and redundant. I read a good idea just now on the battle.net forums. Keep snipe's damage the same but have it do half damage to Massive. That would accomplish Blizzard's goal of making it less powerful against Zerg tier 3 but keep its viability against the rest of the units rather than gutting the spell against everything except HTs, and Infestors which you would normally just EMP in the first place. Half damage is too hard. Upthread somewhere was a suggestion that snipe be affected by armor, as in roughly -2 per armor. It would make ultras much more viable, but with proper air carapace upgrades BLs aren't insti-sniped either. My point is that Blizzard has many more options if they want to nerf snipe against Zerg tier 3 rather than just gutting the damage of the spell in half overall but giving it a meaningless boost against Psionic. They've isolated a specific scenario where the spell is too good and they are gutting its usefulness in EVERY situation with this change. That's taking a problem that requires a scalpel and using a chainsaw instead. Lowering Snipe's damage vs massive by any amount and keeping the damage it does otherwise the same would solve the problem they want to solve and keep the spell viable everywhere else.
This seems like such a logical approach to the problem. I don't understand why Blizzard doesn't see it this way. They've effectively neutralized the snipe ability in every situation (except redundant scenarios where EMP would work) when their goal was to neutralize it in a specific situation. How can they not see what they've done?
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On February 11 2012 09:31 Dark.Carnival wrote:
Not liking their approach to snipe. Just changing the damage seems a bit lazy, and makes it a bit redundant having it do +dmg to psionic since the psionic units you're using it vs. already get countered by EMP. They could have made it cost more energy, or added a cool down or some other thing. If it has to be just a straight damage nerf do it in a smaller amount then test it and see what difference it makes, not reduce it by 20 damage and scare terrans from ever building a ghost again ._.
Yeah, don't really understand why it does 25 damage +25 to psyonic either, not like they can one hit spellcasters with this 5 damage buff.....
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On February 11 2012 09:38 SoulWager wrote:
I'm glad the removed arid plateau, but I wish they removed shattered temple before or along with xel naga.
Amen.
Just because Tournaments are still using that awful map, doesn't mean it's a good map. But that's a discussion for a different thread.
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Auto attack is not better than snipe. Snipe has a much shorter cooldown.
If ghost auto attack deals more damage than snipe, then unsieged tanks have more dps than cracklings vs light targets. 8 damage vs 15.
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Snipe seems rather pointless to me if this goes up.Wouldn't it be better to just make it do less damage to massive units....
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On February 11 2012 09:40 CeroFail wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 09:31 Dark.Carnival wrote:
Not liking their approach to snipe. Just changing the damage seems a bit lazy, and makes it a bit redundant having it do +dmg to psionic since the psionic units you're using it vs. already get countered by EMP. They could have made it cost more energy, or added a cool down or some other thing. If it has to be just a straight damage nerf do it in a smaller amount then test it and see what difference it makes, not reduce it by 20 damage and scare terrans from ever building a ghost again ._. Yeah, don't really understand why it does 25 damage +25 to psyonic either, not like they can one hit spellcasters with this 5 damage buff.....
You can now kill infestors with 2 hits.
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On February 11 2012 09:40 SolidMoose wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 09:37 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 11 2012 09:36 Diomedes7 wrote:
Really bad to see Blizzard taking massive leaps in the wrong direction. Terrible patch, terrible map pool. Season 6 is looking bad. Hey hey. The map pool is great! This patch won't go live for at least another couple of months and will have to be thoroughly tested on the PTR chances are it won't even make into Season 6. Season 6 is looking great. A couple months? These take a couple weeks, and only twice has anything been reverted.
How quickly we forget how long the content patch that nerfed infestors took to go live.
Just because the last couple of patches went through quickly with very minor changes done to the game doesn't mean this one will also.
The changes that were introduced in the last couple of patches aren't nearly as far reaching as the ones introduced in this patch.
They are effectively changing the way that the late game for both TvP and ZvP is played, whereas before they were simply nerfing specific strategies in the mid or early game.
That isn't the kind of change Blizzard can justify making without heavy testing on the PR and the more I think about it the more I think the Snipe change is a bad one that can be done in much better ways. (read my other posts for more details)
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I think the main problem is that people onle see the insane wins who get highlightet in youtube videos and ore reddit.
By far you dont win the Match automaticly with mass Ghosts, you still need to click like a Berzerker. The most "imba" Terran wins are mostly on maps like Shakura where you can build a PF "wall" and stay behind it and just wait.
I cant say what effect it has on the Pros but for me lategame TvZ is a pain even with ghosts now, its not as simple to play as it looks.
Its like saying banelings need to be nerfed they killed my 200/200 unmicroed marineball in like 2seconds.
The other changes are ok i'd say.
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I actually like Blizzards change to gold bases more than GOM's change. I like the dynamic of gold bases when they are placed in vulnerable positions and when a player invests in taking one it changes up the pace of the game. Snipe change is pretty massive but I just want to see more Ultra/Broodlord tech switches and I want the Terran to actually change up their composition in response. As a primarily Zerg fan even I started to bang my head on my keyboard every time a PvZ turned into a muta base race and I just want it out of the game as quick as possible
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EPT
