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Hi everyone,
Almost every large tournament event worth noting takes place in a LAN environment, be it Dreamhack, GSL, MLG or countless others. More and more however, with the inability to have LAN functionality in SC2, this is simply turning into an internet based tournament in the same room as each other.
Arguably exactly the same quality of games could typically take place with the players still residing in their respective countries, avoiding ten's of thousands of dollars in additional costs (across the entire player base) such as flights and accommodation.
I'm just curious as to why in this age of internet based play we're still looking to pay thousands of dollars to attend many of the large tournaments out there? I can understand production value is higher if you can get all the players into the one location, seeing the booths etc, but I think you could easily have the same atmosphere with a live crowd and live commentators streaming the games with the players themselves at home.
I'm just curious if people think that the benefits (additional production value) outweigh the costs (arguably less accessible tournaments and much higher outlay for players to attend different locations around the world) in these days of internet based play?
Do you think we'll ever get to the point where major tournaments take place entirely online?
Would you be happy to view a tournament such as this, or do you think that the offline element is required to add to the atmosphere?
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Number one reason : Cheating
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Nothing like an in-person lan event where you get to see the players. I don't think it'll die off.
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internet results dont matter while 'lan' results do.
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Calgary25996 Posts
Isn't this self-explainable? Why do people go to sporting events rather than watching them on TV? Why do people go to barcrafts? It's more social and more fun to be part of a live crowd.
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On February 02 2012 08:19 Chill wrote:
Isn't this self-explainable? Why do people go to sporting events rather than watching them on TV? Why do people go to barcrafts? It's more social and more fun to be part of a live crowd.
The spectacle.
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Crowds and atmosphere mostly. No online tournament can produce screaming fans cheering for their favorite player, on the spot interviews, crowd shots, emotional player reactions after wins/losses, prize ceremonies, etc. There's also the fact that scheduling an online tournament with players from all over the world would be a nightmare, not to mention technical problems like cross-region lag / internet going down / etc. There's also the cheating aspect too.
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On February 02 2012 08:17 Phaded wrote:
Number one reason : Cheating
This. When that much money is on the line you can't risk cheating.
Also, latency. LANs help a lot with latency so there is not cross-server play.
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Lag & atmosphere I'd think.
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What Chill said basically. + The fact you get a chance to interact with the players  Would never get the chance to meet so many players from different parts of the world if it wasn't for the LAN.
And it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more exciting to be in a big crowd in a final than to watch the final alone in front of your computer.
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On February 02 2012 08:17 Phaded wrote:
Number one reason : Cheating
Yah, I go to live events not for the roaring crowds, the feel of the atmosphere of the event or to potentially meet my favorite player. I go mainly because I'm afraid of the possibility of players cheating in online events. Makes sense right.
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Level playing ground is the main reason for players. Spectators can get a great experience, too
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Being able to see and have a live in person interview with the players is more meaningful for people, and having players play from home will always have some issues (look at NASL, or in any tournament where someone for Europe or Korea has to play on the NA server or vice versa).
TSL3 played out mostly online and went quite well, proving that it's possible, but even they knew that a live finals was important for the legitimacy of the tournament and for the more exciting atmosphere. Also; MLG runs in a weekend and has I don't even know how many games played during it. You couldn't have nearly the same amount of series/games played over a comparable time span online because to many people would have other engagements/technical issues/personal issues/time zone issues which are minimized by being at a live venue.
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On February 02 2012 08:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Yah, I go to live events not for the roaring crowds, the feel of the atmosphere of the event or to potentially meet my favorite player. I go mainly because I'm afraid of the possibility of players cheating in online events. Makes sense right.
Part of his post is questioning it from an organizer and player's point of few. No need to be sarcastic.
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Cheating is one of the reasons certainly. Maybe not the only one, but in the history of esports of any kind it has been one of the biggest.
Another factor (even if it doesn't work with SC2) is latency. Lan tournaments helped us bridge that gap, which seemed fairly big at the start of BW. I used to play pretty competively (at that time) in clan wars in 2000 and it was a big problem when you wanted to play outside of your true "local" area (meaning games between german and austrian clans could already be problematic if one of the two players did not have a top of the line internet connection).
Aside from that the fact is that tournaments are a buisness. You need to "sell" a product. General consensus is that you get a better feeling, if you have a cheering crowd live. Consider the difference between a GSL and an AOL final. Both are done by the same company, but they feel completly different.
Personally i'd love it for the players if we had better paying online tournaments. It would certainly improve their lives and make things easier for them, but for myself as a spectator i prefer the higher value productions offline events can bring.
(Note I am not saying online tournaments cannot be done well, TSL3 and quite a few other tournaments were done perfectly well, but we must admit that almost every single one of them had problems at one point or another).
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I think a lot of the points raised are quite valid, but I'd play devils advocate on a few issues
Crowds & Atmosphere -
I'd say that being in a live crowd would be a great experience. I'd also say that for the vast majority of the people experiencing a tournament it would be viewed via a stream regardless, negating a lot of that 'atmosphere' benefit. For an example, I'd say the vast majority of us have not watched a GSL series live, with it taking place in Korea. Assuming they could provide an equivalent level of service (i.e. lack of lag, player availability etc) I'd argue that the fact that it is or isn't live wouldn't make a huge difference to many people (again others may disagree).
This also doesn't preclude the ability for people to host huge barcrafts / have casters live and stream that for those who enjoy the offline atmosphere much more.
Cheating -
I'd say this is a fair point. I'd say however that it appears that lots of online tournaments do take place (although not the major ones) and cheating doesn't seem to be a huge issue at this stage, however I acknowledge this may change in the future with either different hacks developing or the prize stakes increasing.
Lag / Scheduling -
Probably the biggest point raised so far that I agree with, it would admittedly be hard to schedule players and deal with cross server lag when playing for different locations around the world.
I suppose coming from a corner of the world (Australia) where it's extremely expensive to fly and participate in any major tournaments (not for myself, for other top Australian players) I was curious as to what some of the barriers were in taking advantage of the online nature of our sport rather than the traditional LAN or even 'normal' sporting environment. Clearly it's not quite feasible yet, hopefully one day it may be however.
Thanks TL :D
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TSL is the only successful online Tournament that has the same viewer/hype as a live event. Though the TSL is very special and unique.
Though I want to ask have you ever been to a live event? if your answer is no I suggest go to an MLG/Dreamhack and you will figure out why Lan's are the best.
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I don't think you will ever see a major online only tournament mostly because of cheating. For example, if your team has a player in the round of 32, he's up against a Zerg, but his PvZ if awful.. what's to stop them from having another guy on the team sub in and play for him that has good PvZ? You would have to implement some kind of weird validation system. Would the hassle be worth it vs simply having them show up to an offline location? Doubtful.
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There is no comparison because going to a live event is just amazing.
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if it's not live, i'd always imagine 10 people sitting behind the player telling him about possibilities of what's coming or watch his supply from being locked.
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EPT
