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We Must Fight For The Carrier - Page 54

Forum Index > SC2 General
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fenix404
Profile Joined May 2011
United States305 Posts
June 23 2012 09:48 GMT
#1061
<3 CARRIER
"think for yourself, question authority"
winthrop
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Hong Kong956 Posts
June 23 2012 10:00 GMT
#1062
dont make colossus
go carrier
than carrier not get remove

its yourselves ruin carrier
not blizzard
Incredible Miracle
SiroKO
Profile Joined February 2012
France721 Posts
June 23 2012 10:19 GMT
#1063
infestors/corruptors and marines/vikings destroy them too hard.
Only way for them to be viable would be through a buff (invincible interceptors and/or more range) which might be game-breaking in team-league (don't forget that's the reason why blizzard nerfed HSM).
Our envy always last longer than the happiness of those we envy
sunprince
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2258 Posts
June 23 2012 10:49 GMT
#1064
On June 22 2012 19:02 Ballistixz wrote:
why keep the carrier? ppl will continue to not use it even if it stays rofl...


The point is to keep it while fixing it.
Dalavita
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1113 Posts
June 23 2012 10:49 GMT
#1065
On June 23 2012 19:00 winthrop wrote:
dont make colossus
go carrier
than carrier not get remove

its yourselves ruin carrier
not blizzard


Blizzard ruined the carrier by implementing it in a bad state and they're not considering deleting it instead of fixing it for hots, which has been a trending design philosophy for them with this game. If it's broken, don't fix it, get rid of it!
Kindred
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada396 Posts
June 23 2012 10:57 GMT
#1066
Wasnt the whole reason of not replacing the carrier with the tempest in WoL was the fact that people had some affinity for the carrier and it was an icon of SC....and now here we are..
Two 2.93GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon “Westmere” (12 cores) + 32GB RAM + Four 512GB Solid-State Drives + Two ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB + Two Apple LED Cinema Display (27" flat panel) + Quad-channel 4Gb Fibre Channel PCI Express card
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
June 23 2012 10:59 GMT
#1067
why not just give the 22 range to the carrier instead? the tempest imho is a pretty boring unit.
Kindred
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada396 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-23 11:05:20
June 23 2012 11:04 GMT
#1068
On June 23 2012 19:59 s4life wrote:
why not just give the 22 range to the carrier instead? the tempest imho is a pretty boring unit.

I was taking about this tempest:
[image loading]

which was promising. You upgrade it at forge since its melee weapons, it has a hardenned shield for AA units. I found it pretty appealing and a worthy replacement for the carrier.

Unless you mean the HOTS tempest. in which case I agree. Its slow and shoots every 12 years. lol
Two 2.93GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon “Westmere” (12 cores) + 32GB RAM + Four 512GB Solid-State Drives + Two ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB + Two Apple LED Cinema Display (27" flat panel) + Quad-channel 4Gb Fibre Channel PCI Express card
Squide
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden141 Posts
June 23 2012 15:28 GMT
#1069
i feel that the cost for the carrier isn't cost efficient with todays patch, I like the buff ideas (or rather the fix ideas) that makes them shoot while moving , just watch BW

Swedish | Diamond | Squide.606 | EU
HelioSeven
Profile Joined February 2012
United States193 Posts
June 24 2012 04:33 GMT
#1070
On June 23 2012 19:19 SiroKO wrote:
infestors/corruptors and marines/vikings destroy them too hard.
Only way for them to be viable would be through a buff (invincible interceptors and/or more range) which might be game-breaking in team-league (don't forget that's the reason why blizzard nerfed HSM).


Ugh. People really don't seem to get late game PvT and PvZ. Infestor/corruptor is good against Skytoss, but void ray/carrier actually melts corruptors pretty quick and a few suporting HTs with some well placed feedbacks can completely destroy that comp. Skytoss is very viable in PvZ, it's been seen in GSTL and Proleague. Uncommon, but not impossible.

In PvT carriers don't work not because of vikings (they don't have enough armor to live long against carriers), but because of marines. Stim is just too powerful. But that was true in Brood War too, wasn't it? Carriers were the Protoss answer to mech, marines have always been the anti-carrier. But just as Blizzard buffs mech play and makes it viable in TvP, they're gonna take out the carrier. HotS will be terrible for PvT with no carrier, it'll be silly.
If I smite you, have you been smitten?
Vathus
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-24 04:51:48
June 24 2012 04:47 GMT
#1071
I don't understand why they're replacing the carrier with (imo) a far less interesting unit that basically has the same role. It's not even like the carrier is a bad unit. It's becoming used more and more in lategame PvZ since it's the best unit at dealing with broodlord/corrupter + infestor armies, (the biggest problem is transitioning into them but people are starting to get better at making the transition) and with mech buffs in hots the carrier may have a bigger role in PvT as well.
NicolBolas
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1388 Posts
June 24 2012 07:45 GMT
#1072
You upgrade it at forge since its melee weapons


FYI: Protoss upgrades don't work that way. It's ground weapons vs. air weapons, not ranged vs. melee. The latter is Zerg.
So you know, cats are interesting. They are kind of like girls. If they come up and talk to you, it's great. But if you try to talk to them, it doesn't always go so well. - Shigeru Miyamoto
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-24 10:48:06
June 24 2012 10:46 GMT
#1073
On June 24 2012 13:47 Vathus wrote:
I don't understand why they're replacing the carrier with (imo) a far less interesting unit that basically has the same role. It's not even like the carrier is a bad unit. It's becoming used more and more in lategame PvZ since it's the best unit at dealing with broodlord/corrupter + infestor armies, (the biggest problem is transitioning into them but people are starting to get better at making the transition) and with mech buffs in hots the carrier may have a bigger role in PvT as well.

What is the problem of the Carrier?
Its damage is based upon the Interceptors on the ship and they - being very tiny units with low hp - can be easily shot down. Terrans have lots of tightly packed Marines to do that, Zerg have Fungal Growth plus a few Hydras / Corruptors / Queens and Protoss can do it with Psi Storm and blinking Stalkers. After these units have been annihilated in about two seconds the Carriers are dead weight in army supply and it might even be wiser for an opponent not to shoot them down (and thus the Carrier's owner has to do it himself).

The stats havent changed that much from BW to SC2, so why is the Carrier useless now?
That is an easy question to answer. The defending players units in SC2 are packed MUCH tighter together in SC2 compared to BW and this increases the rate at which the Interceptors get shot down. Thus the uselessness could be overcome in several ways:
- make Interceptors immune to AoE effects
- increase the defensive stats of Interceptors
- increase the rate at which the Interceptors are built AND make them not cost any resources (kinda turn the Carrier into a Broodlord), maybe even base the reproduction of Interceptors on energy ... which could be adapted to Broodlords as well
- give the Carrier some other attack like the 22 range "once in a blue moon" shot of the Tempest

So there are lots and lots of good ideas, but someone at Blizzard seems to have an antipathy against the Carrier. There is nothing we can do against that except for playing custom maps (i.e. no ladder/tournaments) with the Carrier in it OR not buying HotS ...
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
Kbafewx
Profile Joined June 2012
United States16 Posts
June 24 2012 11:05 GMT
#1074
really Blizz... that's not right. Just fix it don't remove it.
ZERG.
Adonminus
Profile Joined January 2012
Israel543 Posts
June 24 2012 11:32 GMT
#1075
On June 24 2012 19:46 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2012 13:47 Vathus wrote:
I don't understand why they're replacing the carrier with (imo) a far less interesting unit that basically has the same role. It's not even like the carrier is a bad unit. It's becoming used more and more in lategame PvZ since it's the best unit at dealing with broodlord/corrupter + infestor armies, (the biggest problem is transitioning into them but people are starting to get better at making the transition) and with mech buffs in hots the carrier may have a bigger role in PvT as well.

What is the problem of the Carrier?
Its damage is based upon the Interceptors on the ship and they - being very tiny units with low hp - can be easily shot down. Terrans have lots of tightly packed Marines to do that, Zerg have Fungal Growth plus a few Hydras / Corruptors / Queens and Protoss can do it with Psi Storm and blinking Stalkers. After these units have been annihilated in about two seconds the Carriers are dead weight in army supply and it might even be wiser for an opponent not to shoot them down (and thus the Carrier's owner has to do it himself).

The stats havent changed that much from BW to SC2, so why is the Carrier useless now?
That is an easy question to answer. The defending players units in SC2 are packed MUCH tighter together in SC2 compared to BW and this increases the rate at which the Interceptors get shot down. Thus the uselessness could be overcome in several ways:
- make Interceptors immune to AoE effects
- increase the defensive stats of Interceptors
- increase the rate at which the Interceptors are built AND make them not cost any resources (kinda turn the Carrier into a Broodlord), maybe even base the reproduction of Interceptors on energy ... which could be adapted to Broodlords as well
- give the Carrier some other attack like the 22 range "once in a blue moon" shot of the Tempest

So there are lots and lots of good ideas, but someone at Blizzard seems to have an antipathy against the Carrier. There is nothing we can do against that except for playing custom maps (i.e. no ladder/tournaments) with the Carrier in it OR not buying HotS ...

I would also want to note that in sc2 intercepters no longer return to the carrier to recieve healing, this makes them die easier. Also the carrier can't microed the same way it could be in bw. Perhaps there haven't been changes in states, but those minor changes in abilities just made it useless in most cases.
Zorgaz
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden2951 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-24 11:42:47
June 24 2012 11:41 GMT
#1076
Fix the carrier, fix it and keep it.

If you think about the perspective of the viewer it's will suck if they just get to see shit get killed without seeing what's causing it cause the Tempest is more then a screen away. Then it would be cooler if the carriers had more range. Seeing the interceptors instead of a random lightning ball would make it much clearer to the viewers what it happening when they view the attacked units. Maybe make the interceptors microable or something.
Furthermore, I think the Collosi should be removed! (Zorgaz -Terran/AbrA-Random/Zorg-Dota2) Guineapigs <3
Garmer
Profile Joined October 2010
1286 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-24 11:46:24
June 24 2012 11:46 GMT
#1077
On June 24 2012 20:32 Adonminus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2012 19:46 Rabiator wrote:
On June 24 2012 13:47 Vathus wrote:
I don't understand why they're replacing the carrier with (imo) a far less interesting unit that basically has the same role. It's not even like the carrier is a bad unit. It's becoming used more and more in lategame PvZ since it's the best unit at dealing with broodlord/corrupter + infestor armies, (the biggest problem is transitioning into them but people are starting to get better at making the transition) and with mech buffs in hots the carrier may have a bigger role in PvT as well.

What is the problem of the Carrier?
Its damage is based upon the Interceptors on the ship and they - being very tiny units with low hp - can be easily shot down. Terrans have lots of tightly packed Marines to do that, Zerg have Fungal Growth plus a few Hydras / Corruptors / Queens and Protoss can do it with Psi Storm and blinking Stalkers. After these units have been annihilated in about two seconds the Carriers are dead weight in army supply and it might even be wiser for an opponent not to shoot them down (and thus the Carrier's owner has to do it himself).

The stats havent changed that much from BW to SC2, so why is the Carrier useless now?
That is an easy question to answer. The defending players units in SC2 are packed MUCH tighter together in SC2 compared to BW and this increases the rate at which the Interceptors get shot down. Thus the uselessness could be overcome in several ways:
- make Interceptors immune to AoE effects
- increase the defensive stats of Interceptors
- increase the rate at which the Interceptors are built AND make them not cost any resources (kinda turn the Carrier into a Broodlord), maybe even base the reproduction of Interceptors on energy ... which could be adapted to Broodlords as well
- give the Carrier some other attack like the 22 range "once in a blue moon" shot of the Tempest

So there are lots and lots of good ideas, but someone at Blizzard seems to have an antipathy against the Carrier. There is nothing we can do against that except for playing custom maps (i.e. no ladder/tournaments) with the Carrier in it OR not buying HotS ...

I would also want to note that in sc2 intercepters no longer return to the carrier to recieve healing, this makes them die easier. Also the carrier can't microed the same way it could be in bw. Perhaps there haven't been changes in states, but those minor changes in abilities just made it useless in most cases.

do not forget the +4 armor BW's carrier vs +2 armor sc2's carrier
Xpace
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2209 Posts
June 24 2012 12:02 GMT
#1078
It's depressing to see how far the Carrier has fallen.

Anyone remember the most recent Legend of the Fall? Pretty sure every nerd Protoss teared up when Jangbi beat Fantasy with CARRIERS. The commentators were commenting how he had the Autumn Wind carrying the flagship of the Protoss into battle.

I like change; and the Tempest might be 'the future', but it really feels like the Carrier hasn't been given the attention it deserves.

D:
mockturtle
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States220 Posts
June 24 2012 13:04 GMT
#1079
You guys are crazy. Carriers are awesome, you see them every ZvP. They just changed the art and switched them to the Zerg side and made them even better and called them Brood Lords.

Yeah, a tier 3 flying unit that is slow and instead of attacking, sends out little units to do its attacking for it, and is the perfect late game solution to a million siege tanks. They gave it to Zerg.

I think they left the current Carrier in the game to make fun of BW players.
scsequeL
Profile Joined June 2012
47 Posts
June 24 2012 14:42 GMT
#1080
Great post, I agree that Blizzard shouldn't remove an Iconic Unit just because it's not so useful at the moment. They should have made some changes to it and let people play it out in the HOTS beta at MLG Anaheim.
go go go
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