|
On January 26 2012 04:47 acrimoneyius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 04:42 Sabu113 wrote:On January 26 2012 04:39 acrimoneyius wrote:On January 26 2012 04:38 meltingmykohchoo wrote:On January 26 2012 04:34 NMHU. wrote:
''Terran Can’t Beat Protoss''
''Ghost EMP is Too Weak''
As a protoss player, I only have to say : ''lol''
- NMHU. Thank you  hmmm Terran cant beat protoss lololol Emp... Same aoe as storm. Does damage instantly, impossible to dodge also takes energy in aoe / feed back only does 1 unit and costs 2/3rds of the gas. ghosts take 75 gas to tech to. (tech lab n ghost academy) Fuck lets all just play terran!! EMP is a projectile. I think the word you're looking for is possible. Is that a serious response? Show me a case of someone dodging a sc2 emp projectile or hell just a straight up image of the projectile's flight. Completely ridiculous to say that emp is not more effective than emp and is "dodgeable" =.= Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Where the fuck did I say "is not more effective?" Please quote that part. Oh wait, you can't. Was pointing out the irony that he's complaining about EMP being undodgeable yet it's more dodgeable than a storm because it has a flight path (even if it's a .2-.5 second flight path).
Lol more dodgeable then a storm? you can't be serious? EMP is instant, Storm does damage over time its very very easy(Even more so with stim) To run out of a storm and take next to no damage. Mean while EMP is instant it hits and bam mass damage, and as the other guy said give me one example of ANY toss play EVER beign able to dodge the EMP projectile.....
This all being said I think EMP is fairly balanced at the moment and ghosts are fine in the PvT match up, Snipe can be aggravating to deal with but not imba.
|
Really enjoyed the interview, great responses by David Kim, can't wait for HoTs
|
Sadly its a joke interview. Hes talking about things from like 2 months ago. 2 months ago, PvZ mutalisks was a big thing... now its not. If it were, we would only see mutalisks in high level korean ZvP every game. And that's not what goes on.... In fact korean protoss' tendancy to do 2base timings makes mutas pretty rare in the GSL. In fact if any changes were made (like this ridiculous aoe suggestion, lol) you would just go back to NEVER seeing mutalisks in pvz ever. Don't think mutalisks are the PvZ winrate problem.
And yet we see ghosts in EVERY SINGLE MATCHUP IN THE ENDGAME, but EMP is too weak.... Terran dominates the top level of the scene still. Like day9 said on his recent daily, you get to the endgame and you start saccing marines to make room for more and more ghosts because they are so awesome.
So not sure if david kim out of touch, or just delayed. Delayed reaction is what I'll go with. The fact is that the game is SO CLOSE TO BALANCED right now.. there just isn't a lot to change that wouldn't have dire consequences.
|
If they would just chance carrier something like broodlord that would spawn endless ammounts of intercepters which would die in after some time it would be better, now it only drains all mone yand is somewhat useless.
|
On January 26 2012 04:51 rwadams wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 04:43 The Final Boss wrote:On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed Can you imagine TvP? Phoenix/Colossi isn't that common (it's been used a bit), but that sort of army composition is already one of the hardest to beat. Now you're suggesting to make it even stronger? I'm not going to deny that you're a better player than me, and perhaps that is the appropriate answer to the Mutalisk problem, but it would really mess up TvP. David Kim, while I don't agree with everything he says, has a very good point that changing one thing like that can greatly affect the entire metagame in multiple match-ups. I think we should revisit IdrA's old solution, but tweak it a bit: + Show Spoiler +"Remove [Protoss] from the game." I mean, let's face it, most of these problems deal with Protoss anyways... But on a more serious note, I think that it's silly to talk about the GSL. I know that this is a hypothetical situation and there's far too many variables to actually account for everything, but seeing as over half of the GSLs have been won by Mvp or NesTea, I think that this argument has some merit: If NesTea or Mvp were to have played Protoss, Zerg, or Terran. They would be a successful progamer. They are determined, their RTS experience goes back a long time, they have experience playing games on stage, and frankly, they're on a superior level to everyone else. Im not convinced it would affect pvt that bad. Vikings dont clump up like mutas do. You would just have to be careful about medivac positioning
When Vikings are shooting at Colossi, they do. Clearly you haven't played a game of TvP recently. It's the same problem with Archons, except that in the case of Archons it's more difficult to actually have it happen.
And what on earth are you talking about "medivac positioning" ?
|
On January 26 2012 04:50 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 04:36 acrimoneyius wrote:On January 26 2012 04:22 HaXXspetten wrote:
Agree on all points, wouldn't say FFE is a problem PvZ though... and where's the snipe-nerf for lategame TvZ? Thought that was probably the most needed change of all. (I play Toss) Ghost snipe is not a problem in TvZ, considering you always need tanks against zerg against a competent unit composition and broodlords attacking ghosts with tanks hurting them with friendly fire is always a problem. It's just a micro battle (and its a lot more complex than ghost vs HT, which is just retarded). Also if your ghosts are even slightly out of position in a scenario where both players have equal supply, you just lose the game as Terran. I think there was a game MVP vs Stephano or some other zerg where he made 50 ghosts, the other guy had broodlord/infestor/ling with similar supplies and the zerg won, even with the terran on the high ground. That's just one game, but it's fucking MVP. There is no problem with ghost snipe. EDIT: I think it was against darkforce actually. O hai darkforce. The problem with ghosts and snipe is they literally counter everything zerg has late game.. Infestor broodlord? Bam emp +Snipe Ultras? Snipe! As a protoss player is just seems odd that terran can literally counter every tech choice of the Zerg with one unit. Unlike in TvP where if you go ghost Toss can go collosi and switch back and forth etc.
It's impossible for Terran to tech switch anywhere close to as fast as Zerg so if we didn't have the ghosts you would never see a smart Terran go lategame vs Z.
|
Terran Can’t Beat Protoss
I lol'd
|
On January 26 2012 04:59 Charger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 04:50 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On January 26 2012 04:36 acrimoneyius wrote:On January 26 2012 04:22 HaXXspetten wrote:
Agree on all points, wouldn't say FFE is a problem PvZ though... and where's the snipe-nerf for lategame TvZ? Thought that was probably the most needed change of all. (I play Toss) Ghost snipe is not a problem in TvZ, considering you always need tanks against zerg against a competent unit composition and broodlords attacking ghosts with tanks hurting them with friendly fire is always a problem. It's just a micro battle (and its a lot more complex than ghost vs HT, which is just retarded). Also if your ghosts are even slightly out of position in a scenario where both players have equal supply, you just lose the game as Terran. I think there was a game MVP vs Stephano or some other zerg where he made 50 ghosts, the other guy had broodlord/infestor/ling with similar supplies and the zerg won, even with the terran on the high ground. That's just one game, but it's fucking MVP. There is no problem with ghost snipe. EDIT: I think it was against darkforce actually. O hai darkforce. The problem with ghosts and snipe is they literally counter everything zerg has late game.. Infestor broodlord? Bam emp +Snipe Ultras? Snipe! As a protoss player is just seems odd that terran can literally counter every tech choice of the Zerg with one unit. Unlike in TvP where if you go ghost Toss can go collosi and switch back and forth etc. It's impossible for Terran to tech switch anywhere close to as fast as Zerg so if we didn't have the ghosts you would never see a smart Terran go lategame vs Z.
That's not true. Mech is still extremely strong late game. You have to know about what sort of composition/what tech they're going for but it's definitely possible.
|
On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed
if this happens they need to lose their movement shot.
|
On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed
How sweet would that be :D
|
On January 26 2012 04:08 nvs. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 03:05 Treehead wrote:
The top level of play in SC2 is certainly a testament to how quickly the human mind can learn to think and adapt in new and abstract environments - which I've always thought is inspiring. Then, I see comments like these:
•Protoss Win Rate is Too Low in Tournaments
•Terran Can’t Beat Protoss
•Forge Fast Expand is Difficult to Stop as Zerg
The fact that these three are all "hot topics" - and mutually exclusive - is a testament to just how idiotic the human mind can be in large groups. I suppose you take the good with the bad, eh? Haha ya I was just going to say the same thing. Pretty hilarious series of statements.
Master's +: TvP lategame sucks... MMVG is too strong and protoss has to have an unrealistically good economy and a 240/200 food (via warpin) to contest with 200/200 terran.
Below Masters: TvP lategame sucks, protoss tech units are too good and they ball up, a move, and win.
|
On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar. \
Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game.
Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that.
|
forge fe difficult to stop as zerg? ........... terran cant beat protoss?......... WTF
|
Protoss Win Rate is Too Low in Tournaments
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/J6qFKh.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XII8Mh.png) Internationally, this seems to be a problem, but not in Korea
Terran Can’t Beat Protoss- lolwut
Ghost EMP is Too Weak-lolwut
Forge Fast Expand is Difficult to Stop as Zerg-please see MLG Providence Finals
So right now, they are concerned Zerg beat protoss too much (which does not seem to be the case internationally and where Protoss are beating zerg in Korea,) And that protoss beat terran (which is not the case either). Then again, these issues may be focused on the entire starcraft 2 scene, not just the pros.
|
On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar. \ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that.
Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash.
Who doesn't want to face P in GSL?
|
On January 26 2012 04:39 Kireak wrote:
Some fleet beacon uppgrade for phoenixes that made them own mutas harder and problem solved.
oh please not when i get muta harrased im busy doing shit like chronoboost my blink upgrade while i try to chrono my nexus but it does not work because i have no chrono anyway but i do it anyway. then i try to build cannons which they pick up and im to slow to cancel them because i was busy trying to chrono my nexus.
my point is, from my perspective, you have to stop mutas before they reach a critical mass which means you have to kill them before its to late so adding another long tech route besides storm doesnt really help. id like to fight them without having to tech to the max thats why i dont like this idea of the new protoss unit. you know the flying cannon with splash damage thingy.
i like the idea of TT1 because you could fight them and the zerg would have like to split mutas or smth. i heard ppl in broodwar did that shit with 3 controle groups so imagine that skilllevel cap even in pro games.
but im skeptical. protoss getting a buff seems wierd :>
|
Pretty good interview and responses. If you expected concrete, absolute answers, you don't know Blizzard. I like that they aren't over-reacting to any single concern. I'm glad they are noticed Protoss do ok in tournaments now (as opposed to 3-4 months ago), but still rarely win it. I'm not sure if something needs to done about it or not, but I suspect PvZ might be the big issue there (it is a very inconsistant match-up, extremely map dependent, from a Protoss perspective).
I like they are trying to make the carrier work at least. Muta have never been a real problem for me in PvZ, but giving phoenix a splash UPGRADE that you get at fleet beacon might be an answer. That way muta still forces a big investment from protoss in response.
The carrier could be reworked to be that splash-type damage unit they want out of the tempest, just make it carrier based. Interceptors could have a different attack for air and ground, with the air one being stronger. Maybe a few other adjustments. That would make the carrier big air-to-air damage dealer(with relatively small ground threat), with colossus being the big ground-to-ground damage dealer, could start to see different roles for the units.
|
On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar. \ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that. Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL?
Taeja is one of the top Terran players in the world and he has claimed that he thinks Protoss is the strongest race. Just sayin'... ^^
|
Pretty sad that Dave some didn't it.
|
On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar. \ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that.
We would not need so much splash damage if Zerg (and Terran for that matter) didn't produce such cost effective units (assuming no splash damage) in such great quantities. That's how Protoss works, our non splash units don't deal that much damage (stalkers for example), and we have to incorporate support units with splash to stay cost effective.
I'm sorry but how do you even stop something like plain mutalings without splash? And I'm talking straight up fight, without accounting for the fact that it's the fastest reasonable unit composition in the game... (yeah, pheonix + speed reapers is faster!!)
Terran actually has more splash: hellions, tanks, seeker missile, EMP, thors, marines.
We honestly need all the splash we currently have man. However I think that splash on pheonixes would indeed be too strong, you have a point there.
Why not try a +X range upgrade of some sort for pheonixes? But I'm sure the balance team already has considered it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
