EPTDo We Want the Game Harder? - Page 7
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imperator-xy
Germany1377 Posts
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Fragile51
Netherlands15767 Posts
On January 23 2012 23:51 imperator-xy wrote: continue to get harder? as far as i know its getting easier because some "bugs" which are good for the game are getting fixed ...Say what now? | ||
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orangesunglasses
United States110 Posts
less people would play and it would be less popular but what can you do. i wish there was a sc2 bw mode and a sc2 normal mode. make the BW mode same control style as bw and let that be ladder. | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1656 Posts
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canikizu
4860 Posts
Ball vs Ball is just the result of the UI. If BW had clump-up mechanic like SC2, we would have seen way more ball vs ball than in SC2. RIght now we all know that clumping up units is bad in every possible way. If 2 sides have equal army force engage, the one with least clump up units will almost win, yet we almost never see current pro doing that consistently. TLDR, SC2 pro have to fight against good mechanic in years to come too. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On January 23 2012 23:47 turnip wrote: I don't understand why people keep saying SC2 is easy. Just because the control scheme is easier doesn't mean the game is easy. Battle speed and the importance of solid map awareness and tactical decision making Then again, I still haven't seen any player play SC2 as well as I've seen jaedong play BW, a much more awkward and mechanically demanding game. Once BW pros start playing this may become a more obviously valid point. I don't know why people think "BW pros" would automatically be the gods of SC2. What allows Flash, Jaedong and Bisu play as well as they do is years of metagame development and years of training. Obviously BW wasn't figured out 1 year after its release, so why would SC2 be? They are just guys who have had all this stuff to work with, not some superhuman beings. I can assure you that there are already people playing SC2 that have the potential to reach the same level of refinement that current BW pros have. Its simply a matter of time, let the game mature first. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
On January 23 2012 23:41 Leetley wrote: I agree. There won't ever be a point where some player achieves the near perfect skill to pla the game. Sure at some point there is possible play the game at seemingly perfect level, but there is always room for improvement. I'm not talking about that, though. I don't see a Messi of sc2 atm. | ||
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MeatlessTaco
United States302 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Might just be me but i always feel i have more time in bw. And with HotS the game will get harder, especially if carriers and the ms are really taken out, atleast for toss. As they seem to want to increase the defenders advantage and the harassment ability. (will turn sc2 a bit more bwish) Will have to wait and see how it plays out and then the last one as well, or the one after the last one if they are unhappy. Now on topic, i think blizzard made sc2 easier to learn and harder to master then bw, so i would say a complete success in that regard and that with 2 expansions to go. They might have made it to hard to master for the start though as some people are unimpressed from the top play. But sadly its hard to judge really, as there is the fanboy syndrome. Someone totally into something for a long period of time, will either defend it against competition by their teeth or they will move on to the new and start to hate where they came from with passion. Of course not everyone is like this, but those fanboys/hurt fanboys, never let a chance slide to let everyone know. But i think what we got out of everything is, that we don't want the game to become easier and what we are missing and i think Blizzard understood us there. Atleast that how it looked like at blizzcon, though blizzard was probably surprised how people reacted on the toss no deathball units. But going deeper into that would go to far off topic as those units are probably scrapped already. | ||
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Choboo
Sweden2088 Posts
On January 24 2012 00:01 Yorbon wrote: I agree. I'm not talking about that, though. I don't see a Messi of sc2 atm. MMA? | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
All please read: this thread was supposed to be arguing the fact that it is the ease of the game that draws the large crowds, and without it it would be a game for the minority, not the masses. It is not really a discussion on whether or not it should be harder, that is for another thread Sadly op , no one is reading the bold words you put it in the opening of the thread . Although you are asking for the discussion that whether it is a fact that the ease of the game is drawing in the crowds and without it would have the same popularity of broodwar . Than why make a poll stating do you want the game to be harder ? . This thread would have make do without the poll and people won't be discussing whether if the game should be harder than . | ||
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Chunhyang
Bangladesh1389 Posts
Um, yeah, I agree. No need for a harder game. But making the game a little more interactive would be nice. BTW, we need more and better custom games!!! | ||
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Roxy
Canada753 Posts
We should have the best tools to get the job done. Having to spend 50 APM just to get your workers to mine diminishes the apm that you are able to spend on more entertaining actions. There is an unlimited amount of things that you can spend APM on, so it is not like anyone would be sitting around with nothing to do if redundant things were more automated. Dont get me wrong, im not suggesting that injured units should automatically pull themselvs back until their oponents have retargeted. I also am certainly not suggesting that each unit should auto target on the unit with lowest life. Im just suggesting that things such as having the probes auto mine, or being able to que up units or shift-commands is good for this game. What is more impressive to you? watching a pro suicide walk 6 high templars into the enemy but get 1 storm off? or succesfully land 6 perfectly placed storms?.. in the respective games, both could be considered impressive based on the mechanics available, but I would abosultely suggest that it is important that people be given the abiltiy to control their units with the most precision as possible. I would fully throw my support behind any mechanical/ui enhancements that would allow me to quickly execute im sure a lot of fan boys will jump on this post. i honestly get the impression that the majority of the people who advocate harder controls cant even play this game with the enhanced controls we already have. in the past i have challenged many of these fanboys to a 1v1 in which I will go mouse only, and i have still won every time (except 1 time). I really just get the feeling that people support having harder abilities because they currently suck at this game and cant believe that it is actually just them that sucks. People will blame anything.. game mechanics.. race.. maps... god forbid you are actually just bad??? if any high level pros are losing to mid level pro's, there are many explanations other than the mechanics and game being too easy. for example, all-ins are very strong. sometimes pros get greedy and take a risk that doesnt pay off sometimes they dont respond properly to what they scout (or dont even scout properly) also, the various macro mechanics allow for the game to be very friendly if you screw up. These are all gameplay issues, not UI issues. to make the game more micro-friendly, wouldn't giving a high ground advantage be much more reasonable than making it 12 units max selection? is anyone really suggesting that shitty unit pathing would be good for this game? | ||
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Dagobert
Netherlands1858 Posts
He probably means "we have way more surface area than Asians do. + Show Spoiler + We're fatter.  | ||
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divinesage
Singapore649 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
I feel like it's a slender line to tread. The game has to be hard enough that watching pro's is worth it over watching your friends, but similarly the common man has to be able to understand the mechanics and at least have a rudimentary capacity to execute them, simply for the sake of relatability for the crowd. i.e. -I can muta micro, but if I do it to the maximum extent of my abilities my macro slips pretty hard. Like, 1.5K hard. I am capable of executing the micro well, but the difficulty of the entire game limits my ability to properly execute the entire strategy, thus, in this regard, we see a balanced mechanic. (Muta Micro in BW btw...) | ||
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anApple
Singapore275 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On January 24 2012 00:18 Whitewing wrote: When players are playing perfectly you can complain about skill caps being too low and the game being too easy. For a so called 'easy' game, people sure make a lot of mistakes. I see  firebathero and Flash getting supply block in the middle phase of the game . Bw must be easy because they do make a lot of mistakes too. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On January 24 2012 00:23 Sawamura wrote: I see firebathero and Flash getting supply block in the middle phase of the game . Bw must be easy because they do make a lot of mistakes too.That was exactly my point -_-. Neither game is 'easy', they're just 'different'. | ||
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