• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:43
CEST 12:43
KST 19:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview17Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7
Community News
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event13Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster12Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week4Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12
StarCraft 2
General
How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Hybrid setting keep reverting. HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $200 Biweekly - StarCraft Evolution League #1 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House
Brood War
General
Unit and Spell Similarities BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague LB Final - Saturday 20:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL19] Grand Finals
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
NBA General Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Blog #2
tankgirl
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 693 users

Carmac responds to IEM Criticism: "Bring on the pitchforks!"

Forum Index > SC2 General
418 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 19 20 21 Next All
Carmac
Profile Joined August 2007
Poland375 Posts
January 19 2012 21:27 GMT
#1
So a top player wrote that he wouldn't want to go to an Intel Extreme Masters event after seeing today's action in Kiev. I am not going to blame him since we've made mistakes, though I'd hope we would get a little bit more credit.

(Long post incoming.)

Cologne, Guangzhou and New York City went just fine (as esports events go). We had problems at this event. There's only so much you can do to prepare for an event like this. There will always be issues to solve that are beyond your control. Here's what happened:

The venue in Kiev is a huge PC bang with a built-in stage to host esports matches. It has two synchronous 100Mbit lines which are independent from each other - one for the gaming, one for the streaming. It runs dozens of bigger and smaller tournaments all year round.

We ran a very successful event here last year - the Intel Extreme Masters European Championship. Despite knowing the venue well, we visited it in December again to perform our due dilligence and plan the event anew. Our only worry was whether or not we can set up our streaming and video on time.

I can honestly say that we have covered all the areas which we know to be critical. Sometimes that is simply not good enough.

While the Counter-Strike 1.6 and League of Legends tournaments were running completely fine and without any issues (technical or ping-related), the SC2 tournament was plagued with difficulties:

- Players had lag that affected gameplay and sometimes the result (naniwa and, to a lesser degree, Strelok);

- Naniwa voiced concerns to the referee that he had lag issues (other players also). As it turned out their lag spikes were not at all as bad as naniwa's. One of the players intervened and convinced naniwa that by changing some network settings and shutting off some software the connection would be fixed. Naniwa got talked into playing - as it turned out it was a mistake not to put him on another PC (the reasoning being that all players claimed to have some spikes).

- The situation with naniwa happened later on (naniwa having lag issues that affected the outcome of his game). His instant emotional reaction was to want to discontinue playing, but he came back to finish his games on another PC and won the group. Throughout the entire situation - from the start until after all of his games, he was considerate and understanding and his behaviour was very professional. No bullshit.

- Meanwhile, I spent almost the entire day investigating the root of the problem. I spent a lot of the time on the phone with Blizzard's employees, talking to the local IT masterminds who called the local ISP (100Mbit line for gaming only, remember). I asked for the group play to be halted because that time could have allowed us to find the solution.

- The players have avoided PCs where the bad lag occured and continued play. No players have had anything major since then, except for Grubby where it seemed like a commentator lagging out was the problem (he had no other lags - I don't think it was related to the naniwa issue).

Here is what we did in order to fix this issue:
- call Blizzard countless times to make sure it's not a routing issue;
- call the local ISP countless times to do the same;
- test other PCs in the gaming center to see if the same issues occur (they are the same configuration - some lagged, others did not);
- the Arena IT have set up completely fresh Windows PCs with SC2 only on them - those will be the machines used in the remainder of the tournament;

There were no issues whatsoever with League of Legends or Counter-Strike 1.6. At the end of the day it seems like there still might be a minor routing issue (which is not ideal but playable) and the PCs were totally wiped and cleaned up.

To whomever was disappointed with today: I am obviously very sorry that you did not receive the kind of entertainment that we always want to deliver. I can say with all honesty that we did our very best to fix the issues and make sure that the rest of the tournament is flawless.

Please give us some credit and save the pitchforks for after the finals.

I would like to enclose a statement from White Ra who knows the venue very well and participated in last year's Intel Extreme Masters tournament as well (obviously if you're one of the players in Kiev, feel free to chip in with a comment - good or bad, I don't mind):

"Today it was not normal but playable. All of the players have the same conditions. Sometimes there's a lag spike, other times it is all smooth. I experienced one lag issue myself in the game vs. Strelok but the game was decided by then.
I have never seen this before in the Arena. I have played a best of 7 show match vs. Dimaga a couple of months ago on stage and we did not have any problems. At last year's Intel Extreme Masters event here there were no such problems either. There was one problem with electricity but that was because it went down in the entire area of Kiev."

Can we control everything? No.

Did we fuck up? Could we have done better? Yes.

Will we do better? Yes.
Facebook Twitter Reddit
www.intelextrememasters.com
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-19 21:32:13
January 19 2012 21:31 GMT
#2
Huk made Carmac type down yet another long post...

well goodluck in the future the lags need to be fixed sir
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
JoeAWESOME
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden1080 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-19 21:33:51
January 19 2012 21:33 GMT
#3
This post comes out just as Nightend more or less lost because off lagg during the deciding battle. You could see that he diden't micro his stalkers to target down the broods.

Nice that you wrote this post to adress the issue rather then ignoring it!
Simply Awesome! - Liquid'Ret - NSHoSeo_Seal - coLMVP_DRG - EG_Idra - Fnatic.NightEnd
Skillver
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria1309 Posts
January 19 2012 21:33 GMT
#4
Please apologize to Nightend, he lost the game due to lag!
vanhio
Profile Joined November 2010
Niue1017 Posts
January 19 2012 21:34 GMT
#5
Props to nani !
Tommylew
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Wales2717 Posts
January 19 2012 21:34 GMT
#6
how about nigthend losing a battle where he may of won in the game three???

whata joke...
Live and Let Die!
TensaiSakuragi
Profile Joined November 2011
Croatia224 Posts
January 19 2012 21:35 GMT
#7
Actually we should thank HuK that he doesn't accept the invite. This way we're going to get a GOOD representative from Korea. I still remember him failing in Cologne 2 times.

User was warned for this post
Baituri
Profile Joined June 2010
Netherlands1501 Posts
January 19 2012 21:36 GMT
#8
I think the big problem is that games are decided by lag. You can argue that Naniwa lost his game against Strelok because of lag, Grubby might not have lost against Zenio because of lag and NightEnd might not have lost the last game against Zenio because of lag (Engagement on the west side of Dual side with the blink stalkers under the brood lords)

Especially since I am a fan of Grubby and NightEnd I am sad to see them lose, but under circumstances that could have been better and the games might have been different.

I have a lot of respect for IEM and ESL because they try to get new talent into the mix, but this shit has to be better...
mrtomjones
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada4020 Posts
January 19 2012 21:37 GMT
#9
Sounds like its just the shitty luck of internet. Someone wont come now because of it? Silly.
Finrod1
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany3997 Posts
January 19 2012 21:37 GMT
#10
Its a bad thing, but it happens. Thanks for being so open minded.
Tommylew
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Wales2717 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-19 21:39:29
January 19 2012 21:38 GMT
#11
On January 20 2012 06:37 mrtomjones wrote:
Sounds like its just the shitty luck of internet. Someone wont come now because of it? Silly.


will u shut up. It obviously affected the players and why shoudlnt both players have equal settings?

it sucks when the moment two armies are together you have sp[ikes where you cant mciro shit... its a joke as the mroe time broodlords are alive the motr damage they do with the broodlings andmore broodlings are alive.....


User was warned for this post
Live and Let Die!
diejule
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany416 Posts
January 19 2012 21:39 GMT
#12
probs for the post
Stay open minded. Always.
Adebisi
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1637 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-20 01:05:51
January 19 2012 21:39 GMT
#13
WhiteRA calling it "playable" is just wrong IMO. Any amount of lag is just unacceptable, I really think Blizzard needs to step in and provide some kind of portable LAN functionality or tournament servers, I don't understand how people can take SC2 seriously when thousands and thousands of dollars are riding on games where there is lag, it devalues the competitiveness of the game.

I really feel this is more Blizzard's fault than IEMs...

Props to Carmac for being transparent on the issue.

edit: Sounds like its because the computers are poor, that's a shame, I still think the LAN issues still stand though.
nekuodah
Profile Joined August 2010
England2409 Posts
January 19 2012 21:40 GMT
#14
It doesn't matter if its 'playable' a majority of the time, lag spikes deciding the game just destroys the entire integrity of the tournament, good luck getting it fixed for tomorrow/finals but today was undeniably a joke.
NeoSlicerZ
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland470 Posts
January 19 2012 21:40 GMT
#15
The problem with introducing LAN just for tournaments is that pro-gamers then cannot practice under tournament conditions, it must be all or nothing.
Vadrigar
Profile Joined January 2011
Bulgaria2379 Posts
January 19 2012 21:41 GMT
#16
Add Nightend to the list. In his last game vs. Zenio it was OBVIOUS PC lag that caused him no to control his stalkers right! He was basically robbed.
Firesilver
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom1190 Posts
January 19 2012 21:42 GMT
#17
You tried hard to fix the issue but some things are just out of your hands, I don't think this post was needed but I appreciate you putting in the time and effort to clear up some comments being made, looking forward to the rest of the tournament and hope things are plain sailing from now on.
Caster at IMBA.tv -- www.twitter.com/IMBAFiresilver -- www.youtube.com/FiresilverTV
Substandard
Profile Joined October 2008
Italy270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-19 21:42:53
January 19 2012 21:42 GMT
#18
well blame blizzard for lack of lan...
As long as an event is completly at the mercy of a stable internet connection there will be problems. MLG had it's problems, IPL had them and now IEM becomes just another case in point.
AysiktiriX
Profile Joined June 2011
358 Posts
January 19 2012 21:42 GMT
#19
I sharpened my pitchfork good today, tomorrow I might have to start stabbing. (Ooh, SOTG will be on soon, I hope they have brought their pitchforks too, I'll definitely tune in.)
mrtomjones
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada4020 Posts
January 19 2012 21:43 GMT
#20
On January 20 2012 06:38 Tommylew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2012 06:37 mrtomjones wrote:
Sounds like its just the shitty luck of internet. Someone wont come now because of it? Silly.


will u shut up. It obviously affected the players and why shoudlnt both players have equal settings?

it sucks when the moment two armies are together you have sp[ikes where you cant mciro shit... its a joke as the mroe time broodlords are alive the motr damage they do with the broodlings andmore broodlings are alive.....

Uhh wow dude. I comment that it is because of bad net and you snap on me? Fun. Someone never going to another IEM event is silly. MLG has had lag issues before. Everyone still goes to those. Every tournament has had troubles of some sort and people still go to GSL and Dreamhack. Perhaps you should chill.
1 2 3 4 5 19 20 21 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 17m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 35
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4895
Calm 3640
Horang2 1157
BeSt 536
Flash 506
Shuttle 413
EffOrt 256
sSak 223
Leta 170
Last 149
[ Show more ]
Hyuk 134
ToSsGirL 131
Soma 103
Soulkey 73
TY 55
Shinee 46
sorry 29
Killer 20
scan(afreeca) 19
zelot 17
Noble 16
Yoon 15
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
SilentControl 9
IntoTheRainbow 9
Movie 8
ivOry 6
sas.Sziky 1
eros_byul 0
Dota 2
Gorgc5269
XaKoH 570
XcaliburYe358
Fuzer 293
Counter-Strike
summit1g8752
Stewie2K751
x6flipin415
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King108
Westballz58
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor310
Other Games
singsing1609
Happy611
DeMusliM389
Pyrionflax272
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream15733
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 428
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 19
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3858
Upcoming Events
HomeStory Cup
17m
sOs vs uThermal
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
Zoun vs HeRoMaRinE
Ryung vs Babymarine
BSL: ProLeague
7h 17m
Replay Cast
1d 13h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
WardiTV European League
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV European League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
5 days
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Rose Open S1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
HSC XXVII
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.