Great work on the videos once again. I for one appreciate the work y'all put in.

I wanted to get your opinion on aggressive styles that focus on trading army's cost efficiently in ZvT and ZvP, specifically viability on the ladder? (I'm referring to a july style for ZvT and a Zenio style for ZvP).

And my follow up question to that is... Do you think these styles are designed to work only against economy (macro) focused players?

stoicRegret

Canada206 Posts

April 25 2012 07:57 GMT

#402

On April 25 2012 16:08 bakedace wrote:
Great work on the videos once again. I for one appreciate the work y'all put in.

I wanted to get your opinion on aggressive styles that focus on trading army's cost efficiently in ZvT and ZvP, specifically viability on the ladder? (I'm referring to a july style for ZvT and a Zenio style for ZvP).

And my follow up question to that is... Do you think these styles are designed to work only against economy (macro) focused players?

Army trading styles in ZvT should definitely incorporate infestor play. Funal allows you to fend off bio with the most efficiency, and nicely transitions into BLs or Ultralisks, which are the only units that can win in a straight up fight vs terran.

For ZvP, zenio's style is very weak imo. I feel like strategies designed to stop the protoss from getting an unstoppable army are more consistant in the long run. However, if you insist on playing this style, I would suggest copying losira. Heavy emphasis is put into upgrades, along with baneling drops, infestors, corroptors for colosi, and a retarded number of lings. Of course, as with most ZvP strategies, you still need a way to do economic dmg. In Losiras play, he utilizes baneling drops on the probe lines nonstop throughout the game, which is essential to winning. Unfortunately, it seems this playstyle only works for him because he never misses a larva inject, has over 9000 apm, and still barely wins ZvP.

To answer your final question, no i do not think these styles work vs econ protoss or terran. Zerg should never be behind economically, and so your strategy vs a greedy 3rd base strategy vP or vT should be to kill him very quickly, or do dmg him economically in a way that you eventually win from a massive drone lead. I feel that beating playings vP and vT on equal econ simply means you are flat out better than them. 3 base vs 3 base in Zvt and ZvP is very difficult for the zerg player, unless you pull off a crazy base race.

P.S. Do not copy julyzerg's ZvX! It feels as though he has no idea what he is doing, and is only winning because he has over 9000 APM and some kind of JulyZerg factor (maybe everyone is sweating balls when they play him or something). His builds make 0 sense!

smwatkin

Canada399 Posts

April 25 2012 15:40 GMT

#403

On April 25 2012 13:50 romelako wrote:
Let's hope he doesn't REGRET that decision...huehuehue...

So, Shawn...how are the new VOD's coming along? ^^

I don't get back to Canada until tomorrow night pretty late. We'll start them on the weekend fo sho.

bakedace

United States672 Posts

April 25 2012 18:46 GMT

#404

On April 25 2012 16:57 stoicRegret wrote:

For ZvP, zenio's style is very weak imo.

P.S. Do not copy julyzerg's ZvX! It feels as though he has no idea what he is doing, and is only winning because he has over 9000 APM and some kind of JulyZerg factor (maybe everyone is sweating balls when they play him or something). His builds make 0 sense!

Thanks. I've been trying them both lately, especially the july ZvT... and failing miserably.

stoicRegret

Canada206 Posts

April 26 2012 17:34 GMT

#405

VODs this weekend! Going to try and fit in some zvz's since it was brought up so much as of late. Thanks for all the comments once again!

DoctorHot

United States42 Posts

April 26 2012 18:52 GMT

#406

On April 25 2012 16:57 stoicRegret wrote:
P.S. Do not copy julyzerg's ZvX! It feels as though he has no idea what he is doing, and is only winning because he has over 9000 APM and some kind of JulyZerg factor (maybe everyone is sweating balls when they play him or something). His builds make 0 sense!

I've been saying this for a long time! Everything JulyZerg does makes practically no sense, but whenever I see him matched up against someone I'm just like, "well... guess July's gonna win again, somehow."

I agree with these guys that you should keep doing ZvZ in your show, it definitely seems like the most confusing match-up. You do a good job about explaining about how it's all about rotation and not necessarily about having more drones/units than your opponent. I guess just keep talking about the decisions you make that help get you ahead in rotations. For example, if being aggressive makes your opponent make units while you're making drones behind your aggression, getting you ahead.

You guys are super great, and all Zerg players need to watch this show! (especially JulyZerg :D)

romelako

United States373 Posts

April 26 2012 21:31 GMT

#407

On April 27 2012 02:34 stoicRegret wrote:
VODs this weekend! Going to try and fit in some zvz's since it was brought up so much as of late. Thanks for all the comments once again!

Thanks, David.

Holcan

Canada2593 Posts

April 26 2012 21:47 GMT

#408

Hey guys, if you like the stuff by David make sure you check out the replay pack by Fuzzy, he is/was Davids protégé and a lot of the decision making by David are paralleled in Fuzzy's play.

DoctorHot

United States42 Posts

April 26 2012 23:42 GMT

#409

Hey so when/how often does this show air? Is it not listed in the first post thing, or am I just missing it?

I guess it doesn't matter that much since I'm subscribed to you guys on youtube anyways, just curious if you guys did this show live or something.

stoicRegret

Canada206 Posts

April 27 2012 02:01 GMT

#410

On April 27 2012 08:42 DoctorHot wrote:
Hey so when/how often does this show air? Is it not listed in the first post thing, or am I just missing it?

I guess it doesn't matter that much since I'm subscribed to you guys on youtube anyways, just curious if you guys did this show live or something.

Unfortunately, we have tried this, and have gotten 0 viewers. However, shawn and I have casted 2 events for complexity academy so far! I guess you can check those out... (Shawn link???).

As for a live show, we'd need a lot more comments and followers, or else it would be an effort to about 2-3 viewers (literally).

Thanks for the comments, once again.

romelako

United States373 Posts

April 27 2012 02:04 GMT

#411

On April 27 2012 11:01 stoicRegret wrote:

Show nested quote +

Gotta start somewhere, David. I feel like u guys can do it though...no other race has this kind of show. I don't think ChanmanV's channel counts just because I feel like he cannot analyze at a high level of play.

Maybe u can get a featured stream...

sanctuz

Norway184 Posts

April 27 2012 09:04 GMT

#412

I've actually seen you live once, but the timezones is horrible for me

jimbob615

Uruguay455 Posts

April 27 2012 20:51 GMT

#413

can't wait for the next vods, before i go to sleep i've been watching one per night. but i think i've finally watched them all. zvz would be great, but all matchups are useful

btw thanks for the reply earlier regret about my zvz question. what u said about building units and then killing drones making up for the opportunity cost of your own drones made a lot of sense, and i usually build a pack of lings and see what i can do with them while getting a scout. also every time i've seen defensive banelings i've rushed for mutas and it's mostly worked so far :D

DoctorHot

United States42 Posts

April 28 2012 01:53 GMT

#414

Yeah, I actually was watching your Complexity Academy casting, that's how I learned about you! Haha then right after, I went over to a bunch of players' streams and linked to the complexity twitch because I was like, "Everybody needs to hear about these guys, they're great!" Haha so keep at it! You're gaining a following, however slowly it may be. If you guys keep at it, you'll keep getting bigger. And I'll always keep watching!

Edit: I found one VOD of the Nada v Complexity Academy BO7 where I at least recognize David's voice at the start:
http://www.twitch.tv/complexity/b/316070918

Here's my favorite one, them casting the Complexity Academy Recruitment Tournament!
http://www.twitch.tv/complexity/b/314973493

stoicRegret

Canada206 Posts

April 28 2012 08:17 GMT

#415

Shawn is home! Making VODs for the weekend.

smwatkin

Canada399 Posts

April 28 2012 17:38 GMT

#416

we're making them now. Stay tuned.

If you want them IMMMEEDDDIATELYYYYY then subscribe on youtube in the OP. You'll see them as soon as they're loaded up

ultimfier

Canada29 Posts

April 29 2012 00:18 GMT

#417

I was just wondering where abouts in canada you are from? I think i remember you saying ontario, but im an idiot so i could just be imagining tthings

smwatkin

Canada399 Posts

April 29 2012 00:21 GMT

#418

On April 29 2012 09:18 ultimfier wrote:
I was just wondering where abouts in canada you are from? I think i remember you saying ontario, but im an idiot so i could just be imagining tthings

You are correct sir. We are in Toronto.

EPISODE 17 Is UP

ultimfier

Canada29 Posts

April 29 2012 00:51 GMT

#419

thats awesome I live in waterloo. go blue jays

request for 18:

could you possibly get a replay of you holding off a DEDICATED void ray all in. im talking 4 gate +1 zealot w/ 2 stargates.

Ive tried roach hydra, roach muta, roach with a bunch of spores and like 8 queens, and i lose to it every time. thanks (if possible)

smwatkin

Canada399 Posts

April 29 2012 00:54 GMT

#420

On April 29 2012 09:51 ultimfier wrote:
thats awesome I live in waterloo. go blue jays

request for 18:

could you possibly get a replay of you holding off a DEDICATED void ray all in. im talking 4 gate +1 zealot w/ 2 stargates.

Ive tried roach hydra, roach muta, roach with a bunch of spores and like 8 queens, and i lose to it every time. thanks (if possible)

No problem