• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:01
CEST 22:01
KST 05:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3
Community News
Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)11BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13
StarCraft 2
General
Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2) feardragon: Blizzards biggest blunder with SC was… TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation How herO can make history in the Code S S2 finals
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 27624 users

JToD with desRow - A SC2 Protoss knowledge show - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Rabbet
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada404 Posts
January 16 2012 19:37 GMT
#81
Quite enjoyable to watch.

Here is a tip.

Create a theme for every week. "This week we are going to focus on .....(defending cheese or perhaps a certain map that you want to work on, a certain build)." Get some practice partners lined up who are ready and able to practice this way, get skype going with you and Tod and do custom games.

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.
worked13
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia93 Posts
January 17 2012 16:30 GMT
#82
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
January 22 2012 15:45 GMT
#83
We going live in 3hours15min hoping to see u all there will fix the mic issue as well !!
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-22 15:59:38
January 22 2012 15:57 GMT
#84
--- Nuked ---
UvealCaine
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1 Post
January 22 2012 16:07 GMT
#85
On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.

You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2

Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.

EDIT:

Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.


So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....
-stOpSKY-
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada498 Posts
January 22 2012 16:11 GMT
#86
On January 23 2012 01:07 UvealCaine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.

You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2

Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.

EDIT:

Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.


So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....


Where do all these 1-20 post people come from that defend and support desRow? Just curious. Every time I see someone come to his defense about 90% have had like 3 posts.
Josh_rakoons
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom1158 Posts
January 22 2012 16:15 GMT
#87
This guy is really good at this game!!
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
January 22 2012 16:19 GMT
#88
On January 23 2012 01:11 -stOpSKY- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 01:07 UvealCaine wrote:
On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.

You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2

Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.

EDIT:

Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.


So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....


Where do all these 1-20 post people come from that defend and support desRow? Just curious. Every time I see someone come to his defense about 90% have had like 3 posts.


From his stream, where he tells them to post on TL if they like/support him. Most of them dont post on TL often because, lets face it, they wouldn't last long if they did.
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
PodBlake
Profile Joined June 2011
France206 Posts
January 22 2012 18:04 GMT
#89
JToD is up !

GL HF ToD & Desrow !

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/ToD
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-22 18:19:15
January 22 2012 18:18 GMT
#90
--- Nuked ---
dangthatsright
Profile Joined July 2011
1158 Posts
January 22 2012 19:51 GMT
#91
On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.

You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2

Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.

EDIT:

Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.


I would say this method is very applicable to StarCraft 2, for the most part. In particular, it is rather strong when it comes down to strategic and tactical decision making as it gives people the opportunity to possibly come up with their own solutions, or if that's not possible, they at least know the flaws in their own play and what the coach later tells them gives more insight into the game than if the coach just told them how to respond before the student made the mistake. Replace the decision making with solving problems in chemistry and mathematics, it probably would work. What these have in common is that they all are things that require some nontrivial level of active thinking (I am not qualified to say anything about driving).

However, the initial example that started this discussion was making probes, and for this particular case, I don't really see any advantage to letting people make this mistake and then telling them afterwards during a coaching session, assuming the student is doing a lot of practicing on their own as well. If you tell someone after games that they're not making probes, then that's something they'll be particularly conscious about during the games, or rather, have to be to improve with this method. Having someone repetitively tell you in the back to make probes helps free up the mind some to focus on some of the more complex aspects of the game, which is, for the most part, the end goal anyways when it comes to making probes. What does making probes not require (usually)? A nontrivial level of active thinking.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
January 22 2012 21:19 GMT
#92
I got to say I REALLY like Tod's coaching listening for awhile now. Very solid theory and has no problem saying "shut the fuck up, you are doing this shit wrong".

Cool show
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
dani`
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands2402 Posts
January 22 2012 21:27 GMT
#93
On January 23 2012 06:19 Diamond wrote:
I got to say I REALLY like Tod's coaching listening for awhile now. Very solid theory and has no problem saying "shut the fuck up, you are doing this shit wrong".

Cool show

Not sure if desRow can handle this somewhat 'harsh' coaching style though, he got quite pissed after that game vs Aphrodite where ToD told him he had horrible execution etc (and what you quoted as well). But what ToD is saying does make sense so I hope desRow will take his advice to heart ^_^
Skuller
Profile Joined September 2010
United States197 Posts
January 22 2012 21:34 GMT
#94
Just as a casual watcher of desrow's stream, he's improved a lot since he's gone to Korea.

I think ToD has very good tips. It's part of the whole Korean process of completely breaking down your play before improving. Tod seems to favor showing desrow builds that require more awareness, faster reaction, more precision. While desrow might in the short term be better playing how he normally does, it can't hurt to learn different styles.

gl hf, and gj on the show.
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
January 22 2012 21:39 GMT
#95
Having a tonne of fun watching. Learning new builds.
Don't be disheartened desrow! your obviously getting better and its always harder to play well with someone talking to you over your shoulder.
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
ratzp0li
Profile Joined December 2011
United States340 Posts
January 22 2012 21:46 GMT
#96
good watch
Kyandicake
Profile Joined January 2012
3 Posts
January 22 2012 22:02 GMT
#97
Very interesting, very fun to watch!
dubRa
Profile Joined December 2008
2165 Posts
January 22 2012 22:06 GMT
#98
good show. Tod is a cool guy
PodBlake
Profile Joined June 2011
France206 Posts
January 22 2012 22:07 GMT
#99
Nice show tongiht !

Good Luck and Have Fun in Korea ! You have to be GrandMaster ! :D
YourMom
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania565 Posts
January 22 2012 22:08 GMT
#100
Are they grandmaster or what are their ranks ? What are their account names ?
I'm very good at making carriers.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL 2v2 ProLeague S3
19:00
Day 5
ZZZero.O125
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 176
UpATreeSC 146
EnDerr 74
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 23228
Calm 3435
Mini 572
firebathero 229
Hyuk 161
ZZZero.O 125
Dewaltoss 124
sSak 54
scan(afreeca) 29
Counter-Strike
fl0m5913
Foxcn172
Stewie2K113
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu538
Other Games
tarik_tv58288
gofns12739
summit1g4553
Grubby3544
FrodaN1284
C9.Mang0564
Beastyqt527
B2W.Neo295
ArmadaUGS92
Trikslyr68
KnowMe46
ZombieGrub38
PPMD29
FunKaTv 29
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV32
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 42
• HeavenSC 25
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• intothetv
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 29
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV405
League of Legends
• Doublelift1710
• Jankos1123
• TFBlade1057
Other Games
• imaqtpie1080
• Scarra522
• Shiphtur282
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
6h 59m
SOOP
12h 59m
sOs vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings
13h 59m
WardiTV Invitational
14h 59m
ByuN vs MaNa
MaxPax vs Solar
Reynor vs Creator
Gerald vs Spirit
Cheesadelphia
18h 59m
CSO Cup
20h 59m
BSL: ProLeague
21h 59m
Hawk vs UltrA
Sziky vs spx
TerrOr vs JDConan
GSL Code S
1d 11h
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 13h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 21h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
4 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.