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Quite enjoyable to watch.
Here is a tip.
Create a theme for every week. "This week we are going to focus on .....(defending cheese or perhaps a certain map that you want to work on, a certain build)." Get some practice partners lined up who are ready and able to practice this way, get skype going with you and Tod and do custom games.
Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.
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On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:
Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.
Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.
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We going live in 3hours15min hoping to see u all there  will fix the mic issue as well !!
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On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:
Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game. Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe. You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2  Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless. EDIT: Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.
So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....
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On January 23 2012 01:07 UvealCaine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:
Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game. Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe. You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2 Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless. EDIT: Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that. So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....
Where do all these 1-20 post people come from that defend and support desRow? Just curious. Every time I see someone come to his defense about 90% have had like 3 posts.
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This guy is really good at this game!!
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On January 23 2012 01:11 -stOpSKY- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 01:07 UvealCaine wrote:On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:
Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game. Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe. You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2 Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless. EDIT: Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that. So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so.... Where do all these 1-20 post people come from that defend and support desRow? Just curious. Every time I see someone come to his defense about 90% have had like 3 posts.
From his stream, where he tells them to post on TL if they like/support him. Most of them dont post on TL often because, lets face it, they wouldn't last long if they did.
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On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:
Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game. Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe. You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2 Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless. EDIT: Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.
I would say this method is very applicable to StarCraft 2, for the most part. In particular, it is rather strong when it comes down to strategic and tactical decision making as it gives people the opportunity to possibly come up with their own solutions, or if that's not possible, they at least know the flaws in their own play and what the coach later tells them gives more insight into the game than if the coach just told them how to respond before the student made the mistake. Replace the decision making with solving problems in chemistry and mathematics, it probably would work. What these have in common is that they all are things that require some nontrivial level of active thinking (I am not qualified to say anything about driving).
However, the initial example that started this discussion was making probes, and for this particular case, I don't really see any advantage to letting people make this mistake and then telling them afterwards during a coaching session, assuming the student is doing a lot of practicing on their own as well. If you tell someone after games that they're not making probes, then that's something they'll be particularly conscious about during the games, or rather, have to be to improve with this method. Having someone repetitively tell you in the back to make probes helps free up the mind some to focus on some of the more complex aspects of the game, which is, for the most part, the end goal anyways when it comes to making probes. What does making probes not require (usually)? A nontrivial level of active thinking.
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I got to say I REALLY like Tod's coaching listening for awhile now. Very solid theory and has no problem saying "shut the fuck up, you are doing this shit wrong".
Cool show
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On January 23 2012 06:19 Diamond wrote:I got to say I REALLY like Tod's coaching listening for awhile now. Very solid theory and has no problem saying "shut the fuck up, you are doing this shit wrong". Cool show
Not sure if desRow can handle this somewhat 'harsh' coaching style though, he got quite pissed after that game vs Aphrodite where ToD told him he had horrible execution etc (and what you quoted as well). But what ToD is saying does make sense so I hope desRow will take his advice to heart ^_^
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Just as a casual watcher of desrow's stream, he's improved a lot since he's gone to Korea.
I think ToD has very good tips. It's part of the whole Korean process of completely breaking down your play before improving. Tod seems to favor showing desrow builds that require more awareness, faster reaction, more precision. While desrow might in the short term be better playing how he normally does, it can't hurt to learn different styles.
gl hf, and gj on the show.
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Having a tonne of fun watching. Learning new builds.
Don't be disheartened desrow! your obviously getting better and its always harder to play well with someone talking to you over your shoulder.
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Very interesting, very fun to watch!
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good show. Tod is a cool guy
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Nice show tongiht !
Good Luck and Have Fun in Korea ! You have to be GrandMaster ! :D
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Are they grandmaster or what are their ranks ? What are their account names ?
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EPT
