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JToD with desRow - A SC2 Protoss knowledge show - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Rabbet
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada404 Posts
January 16 2012 19:37 GMT
#81
Quite enjoyable to watch.

Here is a tip.

Create a theme for every week. "This week we are going to focus on .....(defending cheese or perhaps a certain map that you want to work on, a certain build)." Get some practice partners lined up who are ready and able to practice this way, get skype going with you and Tod and do custom games.

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.
worked13
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia93 Posts
January 17 2012 16:30 GMT
#82
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
January 22 2012 15:45 GMT
#83
We going live in 3hours15min hoping to see u all there will fix the mic issue as well !!
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-22 15:59:38
January 22 2012 15:57 GMT
#84
--- Nuked ---
UvealCaine
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1 Post
January 22 2012 16:07 GMT
#85
On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.

You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2

Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.

EDIT:

Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.


So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....
-stOpSKY-
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada498 Posts
January 22 2012 16:11 GMT
#86
On January 23 2012 01:07 UvealCaine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.

You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2

Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.

EDIT:

Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.


So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....


Where do all these 1-20 post people come from that defend and support desRow? Just curious. Every time I see someone come to his defense about 90% have had like 3 posts.
Josh_rakoons
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom1158 Posts
January 22 2012 16:15 GMT
#87
This guy is really good at this game!!
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
January 22 2012 16:19 GMT
#88
On January 23 2012 01:11 -stOpSKY- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 01:07 UvealCaine wrote:
On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.

You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2

Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.

EDIT:

Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.


So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....


Where do all these 1-20 post people come from that defend and support desRow? Just curious. Every time I see someone come to his defense about 90% have had like 3 posts.


From his stream, where he tells them to post on TL if they like/support him. Most of them dont post on TL often because, lets face it, they wouldn't last long if they did.
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
PodBlake
Profile Joined June 2011
France206 Posts
January 22 2012 18:04 GMT
#89
JToD is up !

GL HF ToD & Desrow !

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/ToD
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-22 18:19:15
January 22 2012 18:18 GMT
#90
--- Nuked ---
dangthatsright
Profile Joined July 2011
1158 Posts
January 22 2012 19:51 GMT
#91
On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.

You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2

Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.

EDIT:

Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.


I would say this method is very applicable to StarCraft 2, for the most part. In particular, it is rather strong when it comes down to strategic and tactical decision making as it gives people the opportunity to possibly come up with their own solutions, or if that's not possible, they at least know the flaws in their own play and what the coach later tells them gives more insight into the game than if the coach just told them how to respond before the student made the mistake. Replace the decision making with solving problems in chemistry and mathematics, it probably would work. What these have in common is that they all are things that require some nontrivial level of active thinking (I am not qualified to say anything about driving).

However, the initial example that started this discussion was making probes, and for this particular case, I don't really see any advantage to letting people make this mistake and then telling them afterwards during a coaching session, assuming the student is doing a lot of practicing on their own as well. If you tell someone after games that they're not making probes, then that's something they'll be particularly conscious about during the games, or rather, have to be to improve with this method. Having someone repetitively tell you in the back to make probes helps free up the mind some to focus on some of the more complex aspects of the game, which is, for the most part, the end goal anyways when it comes to making probes. What does making probes not require (usually)? A nontrivial level of active thinking.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
January 22 2012 21:19 GMT
#92
I got to say I REALLY like Tod's coaching listening for awhile now. Very solid theory and has no problem saying "shut the fuck up, you are doing this shit wrong".

Cool show
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
dani`
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands2402 Posts
January 22 2012 21:27 GMT
#93
On January 23 2012 06:19 Diamond wrote:
I got to say I REALLY like Tod's coaching listening for awhile now. Very solid theory and has no problem saying "shut the fuck up, you are doing this shit wrong".

Cool show

Not sure if desRow can handle this somewhat 'harsh' coaching style though, he got quite pissed after that game vs Aphrodite where ToD told him he had horrible execution etc (and what you quoted as well). But what ToD is saying does make sense so I hope desRow will take his advice to heart ^_^
Skuller
Profile Joined September 2010
United States197 Posts
January 22 2012 21:34 GMT
#94
Just as a casual watcher of desrow's stream, he's improved a lot since he's gone to Korea.

I think ToD has very good tips. It's part of the whole Korean process of completely breaking down your play before improving. Tod seems to favor showing desrow builds that require more awareness, faster reaction, more precision. While desrow might in the short term be better playing how he normally does, it can't hurt to learn different styles.

gl hf, and gj on the show.
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
January 22 2012 21:39 GMT
#95
Having a tonne of fun watching. Learning new builds.
Don't be disheartened desrow! your obviously getting better and its always harder to play well with someone talking to you over your shoulder.
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
ratzp0li
Profile Joined December 2011
United States340 Posts
January 22 2012 21:46 GMT
#96
good watch
Kyandicake
Profile Joined January 2012
3 Posts
January 22 2012 22:02 GMT
#97
Very interesting, very fun to watch!
dubRa
Profile Joined December 2008
2165 Posts
January 22 2012 22:06 GMT
#98
good show. Tod is a cool guy
PodBlake
Profile Joined June 2011
France206 Posts
January 22 2012 22:07 GMT
#99
Nice show tongiht !

Good Luck and Have Fun in Korea ! You have to be GrandMaster ! :D
YourMom
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania565 Posts
January 22 2012 22:08 GMT
#100
Are they grandmaster or what are their ranks ? What are their account names ?
I'm very good at making carriers.
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