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JToD with desRow - A SC2 Protoss knowledge show

Forum Index > SC2 General
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desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-24 12:48:35
January 14 2012 03:32 GMT
#1
[image loading]
Banner made by LgN.Doji

Hey guys, this is desRow. Me and ToD have been hanging out a lot in the Gomhouse and we thought you might be interested in something we'd like to do for the community.

Back in France and even once or twice here in Korea, ToD has been doing a french show called JToD. JToD is basically him laddering while having guests on skype ask him questions about his live ladder games and question his decision making.

Also, Since ToD is a awesome person, he has been helping me with my game with strategy talk and also coached me for a dozen games.

So what does that mean for the community ? It means we want to do a 4hour show every Sunday at 1PM EST/7PM CET with 2hours of ToD laddering and me asking him questions and 2hours of him coaching me!

The show will be split in 2 parts, the first part will be on ToD's channel at http://www.own3d.tv/live/117696/FnaticMSI_ToD_-_StarCraft_2_Stream and will be in French !

The 2nd part will be on my channel in at http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting and will be in English!

VODs will be available on ToD's VODs archive for the first segment and the 2nd segment will be available on my Youtube, links will be provided and this OP will be updated weekly!

VODs List:

Episode #1
ToD mostly played top50 GM players including Byunprime. I on the other end played sloppy and we mostly joked around instead of real coaching due to sleep deprivation.

+ Show Spoiler +
French part:
http://www.own3d.tv/FnaticTV#/watch/393102

http://www.own3d.tv/FnaticTV#/watch/393207

English part:
http://www.own3d.tv/FnaticTV#/watch/393413


Episode #2
ToD mostly played PvP's. We had a few hiccups and I ended up playing on Major's account which is about the same MMR as mine. Played against naama and startale aphrodite

French part:

http://www.own3d.tv/FnaticTV#/watch/407232

http://www.own3d.tv/FnaticTV#/watch/407366

English part:


http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
LiLSighKoh
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States588 Posts
January 14 2012 03:37 GMT
#2
Picked a good time to watch!
"Want some? Go get some!"
(506)lethal
Profile Joined May 2011
United States6 Posts
January 14 2012 03:52 GMT
#3
This is a great idea! I'll be looking forward to it. Thanks desrow!
ishyishy
Profile Joined February 2011
United States826 Posts
January 14 2012 03:55 GMT
#4
( i am ultratribes on twitter )

Looking forward to hearing more from Desrow. Ever since he joined the gom house, his stream has become 'silent', as it were. I know he has to be quiet in respect for the other players, but it kinda sucks that he cant joke around and be a clown like usual.

Just so you know, your keyboard is probably loud enough for them to hear, so I think you can talk a little more

Off topic: I love your vlogs desrow. I like anything like that sort of thing, I watch other youtuber's channels when they make vlogs too.
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
January 14 2012 04:05 GMT
#5
wow, this actually sounds like algo i would watch.
Soloturtle
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada333 Posts
January 14 2012 04:09 GMT
#6
Great!
Will definitely tune in. Will learn tons of reasoning behind the pro-gamers.
Cool
Ves_arth
Profile Joined January 2012
1 Post
January 14 2012 04:11 GMT
#7
Nice, very excited to see this!
johnnywup
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3858 Posts
January 14 2012 04:11 GMT
#8
awesome, good to see you really putting stuff out there for the community desrow ♥
drEGGonshirt
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11 Posts
January 14 2012 04:12 GMT
#9
Nice, I'l be sure to watch :D
Bitches don't know about my additional pylons
NuclearJudas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
6546 Posts
January 14 2012 04:14 GMT
#10
Very nice. I'll try to tune in.
Life is like Tetris. Your errors pile up but your accomplishments disappear. - Robert Ohlén | http://railroaddiary.wordpress.com/ - My words about stuff.
justnoob.br
Profile Joined June 2011
Brazil83 Posts
January 14 2012 04:16 GMT
#11
i'll watch for sure
Hwangsin Fan
shirobu
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia16 Posts
January 14 2012 04:23 GMT
#12
I assume its a Sunday in Korea and Australia etc and a Saturday in America as apposed to a Sunday in America?
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
January 14 2012 04:28 GMT
#13
On January 14 2012 13:23 shirobu wrote:
I assume its a Sunday in Korea and Australia etc and a Saturday in America as apposed to a Sunday in America?

It's sunday in america/europe and monday 3am in korea
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
KiLL_ORdeR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1518 Posts
January 14 2012 05:22 GMT
#14
that's a lot of protoss awesomeness!!
In order to move forward, we must rid ourselves of that which holds us back. Check out my stream and give me tips! twitch.tv/intotheskyy
Remfire
Profile Joined October 2010
492 Posts
January 14 2012 05:31 GMT
#15
Wow this is awesome, will be sure to tune in and check it out.
Tazerenix
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia340 Posts
January 14 2012 05:36 GMT
#16
On January 14 2012 13:28 desRow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 13:23 shirobu wrote:
I assume its a Sunday in Korea and Australia etc and a Saturday in America as apposed to a Sunday in America?

It's sunday in america/europe and monday 3am in korea

I love you and all but no way im getting up at 4:30 AM for it
I was hyped for it to be on a good australian time like the GSL T_T
shirobu
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia16 Posts
January 14 2012 05:41 GMT
#17
On January 14 2012 13:28 desRow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 13:23 shirobu wrote:
I assume its a Sunday in Korea and Australia etc and a Saturday in America as apposed to a Sunday in America?

It's sunday in america/europe and monday 3am in korea


Oh alright, thanks. 5:00 am, I don't think so. VODS it is ^^
Darigaz(L)
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States106 Posts
January 14 2012 05:43 GMT
#18
This is great news . If you want to learn protoss following this is a good idea.
Ghoststrikes
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1356 Posts
January 14 2012 05:46 GMT
#19
Awesome. Just awesome. In french too, even more awesome!

This is gonna be a must for me :D
Never say die
Plasticage
Profile Joined December 2011
4 Posts
January 14 2012 06:14 GMT
#20
Count me in! ;-)
LeLfe
Profile Joined February 2011
France3160 Posts
January 14 2012 08:26 GMT
#21
gonna watch for sure
Writer for Red bull (Fr) and Iron Squid (En/Fr) @ClemLeLfe on twitter
DumJumJmyWum
Profile Joined March 2011
United States75 Posts
January 14 2012 08:32 GMT
#22
awesome! always been a fan of ToD since wc3!
Slayer-
Profile Joined February 2010
United States113 Posts
January 14 2012 08:34 GMT
#23
cool desrow, high five!
the best way to add insult to injury is to sign someones cast
ThePlayer33
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia2378 Posts
January 14 2012 08:39 GMT
#24
im glad desrow is getting coaching. he really needs someone to help if he really can't think of getting better for himself.
| Idra | YuGiOh | Leenock | Coca |
SpatzeleKing
Profile Joined October 2011
France17 Posts
January 14 2012 08:53 GMT
#25
Great ! I won't miss that !
imPermanenCe
Profile Joined July 2011
Netherlands595 Posts
January 14 2012 09:19 GMT
#26
Thank god ToD coaching desrow is in English, that's I think the most interesting part. Though, we won't be able to see ToD's skills then ;p (referring to ToD laddering being all in French, hard to understand :<)
Micro at its best is like an elegant dance between two people trying to achieve a similar end.
Tommylew
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Wales2717 Posts
January 14 2012 09:30 GMT
#27
good time!! should be abck form havign dinner with my mum and back home!!!

deffaintly watching!!!
Live and Let Die!
f0X
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany38 Posts
January 14 2012 09:31 GMT
#28
awesome!
"What you deserve is what you get"
-HuntedWater-
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway28 Posts
January 14 2012 10:30 GMT
#29
Ez gj gonna help some lower players! Nice idea!
Mid-High masters on korea! twitch.tv/hunted
fcgog
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom876 Posts
January 14 2012 10:49 GMT
#30
dam why can't the tod part be in English instead of desrow's
Simenull
Profile Joined December 2011
5 Posts
January 14 2012 11:34 GMT
#31
this is great, ill be there
Silentenigma
Profile Joined July 2009
Turkey2037 Posts
January 14 2012 11:53 GMT
#32
Noo tod is my faurovite player but why french.I dont know french Cant you make it all english?
日本語が上手ですね
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
January 14 2012 12:27 GMT
#33
On January 14 2012 19:49 fcgog wrote:
dam why can't the tod part be in English instead of desrow's

we might alternate if the demand is there, the majority of tod's fanbase is french, the majority of my fanbase is english so there ya go.
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
ChapatiyaqPTSM
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1887 Posts
January 14 2012 13:52 GMT
#34
Nice, I will definitely watch it!
LiquipediaBoy, these pretzels are makin' me thirsty.
SolidMustard
Profile Joined May 2011
France1515 Posts
January 14 2012 13:58 GMT
#35
Awesome! I'll make sure to watch you guys, should be fun and educative ^^
discobaas
Profile Joined December 2011
225 Posts
January 14 2012 14:02 GMT
#36
tod is boss
you're wrong
Baituri
Profile Joined June 2010
Netherlands1501 Posts
January 14 2012 14:04 GMT
#37
I'd love to watch ToD play, but since I don't speak or understand French...
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
January 14 2012 14:05 GMT
#38
On January 14 2012 21:27 desRow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 19:49 fcgog wrote:
dam why can't the tod part be in English instead of desrow's

we might alternate if the demand is there, the majority of tod's fanbase is french, the majority of my fanbase is english so there ya go.


ToD's fanbase is thewholewc3world.

would like to hear some english part at some point at least

maybe sth liks: ToD 50/50, Desrow 100% english? would be great!
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
EdouarKiLL
Profile Joined October 2011
Russian Federation112 Posts
January 14 2012 14:09 GMT
#39
That will be awesome, i love when desrow speaaks french =)
Trololo
Waste
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden84 Posts
January 14 2012 14:16 GMT
#40
DESROW FIGHTIN! :D
robih
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria1086 Posts
January 14 2012 14:43 GMT
#41
gonna see how rusty my french got xD
Rabbet
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada404 Posts
January 14 2012 14:48 GMT
#42
Ok I have a topic for you protoss nubs.

How to defeat protoss, as terran, after the "deathball" has been created?
Lorch
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany3674 Posts
January 14 2012 14:50 GMT
#43
Really good time you guys chose, lots of respects given that it's really late in korea.
Sucks that I can't speak french, but I'll definetly tune in for the english part :D
drooL
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United Kingdom2108 Posts
January 14 2012 17:16 GMT
#44
Ah nice idea, just sad that you make it 50% french. But that's your call ofc. Might wanna try a few different variants, like 75% english and sometimes 100% and see how the viewer numbers behave.
@nowSimon
KawaiiRice
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2914 Posts
January 14 2012 17:18 GMT
#45
What does the J stand for in the title? (JToD??)
hf
@KawaiiRiceLighT
HappyChris
Profile Joined October 2011
1534 Posts
January 14 2012 17:20 GMT
#46
Great idea good luck
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
January 14 2012 17:21 GMT
#47
On January 14 2012 23:48 Rabbet wrote:
Ok I have a topic for you protoss nubs.

How to defeat protoss, as terran, after the "deathball" has been created?


well obviously it's impossible and the game needs to be redesigned.

(see? i can thinly veil things too)
The universe created an audience for itself.
RouaF
Profile Joined October 2010
France4120 Posts
January 14 2012 17:23 GMT
#48
On January 15 2012 02:18 KawaiiRice wrote:
What does the J stand for in the title? (JToD??)
hf


in french JT is "journal télévisé" basically meaning television news, i'm guessing it's a play on words on that. could be wrong tho
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
January 14 2012 17:32 GMT
#49
Cool stuff will definitely watch ^^
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
January 14 2012 17:34 GMT
#50
should be great! ToD is a brilliant P player and everyone should listen when he speaks to strategy..

gl with this desrow and crew!
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9997 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-14 18:58:52
January 14 2012 18:58 GMT
#51
jtod more like sextod

ye ye ye ye ye ye ye ye yea, ye ye ye ye no no, ah ye ye ye ye ye.. uhuha its ok when its in a 3 way, its not gay when its in a 3 way, with a honey in the middle theres some leeway, the areas gray in a 1-2-3 way
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
January 14 2012 19:02 GMT
#52
On January 15 2012 03:58 mTwTT1 wrote:
jtod more like sextod

ye ye ye ye ye ye ye ye yea, ye ye ye ye no no, ah ye ye ye ye ye.. uhuha its ok when its in a 3 way, its not gay when its in a 3 way, with a honey in the middle theres some leeway, the areas gray in a 1-2-3 way


It's okay. You can"t resist theses glasses.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
January 14 2012 19:07 GMT
#53
With Tod there, any master would be redundant.
GL with the show!
Chicken gank op
-stOpSKY-
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada498 Posts
January 14 2012 19:13 GMT
#54
Why not do both parts in English? I mean the first part in French seems lame considering the majority of the population watching is going to speak and want it in English.
snively
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1159 Posts
January 14 2012 19:19 GMT
#55
cooool! I'm definitely going to watch!
My religion is Starcraft
Donk-in-space
Profile Joined November 2010
Iceland20 Posts
January 14 2012 19:41 GMT
#56
Interesting format, I'll check it out for sure.
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Gworkag
Profile Joined April 2011
France33 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-15 01:37:21
January 15 2012 01:32 GMT
#57
ToD is a very great teacher and explain very well. He's also good at shoutcast (if you remember HSC III) so it should be awesome !
To deny our own impulses is to deny the very thing that makes us human.
Nightshake
Profile Joined November 2010
France412 Posts
January 15 2012 01:46 GMT
#58
Yay !
Seanza
Profile Joined November 2011
171 Posts
January 15 2012 02:00 GMT
#59
Nice idea, very good to mix the 2 shows up as well. Keeps JToD going as it normally would but also gives us non-French speakers the option to watch and understand great coaching
KaWi
Profile Joined June 2011
Czech Republic17 Posts
January 15 2012 15:12 GMT
#60
Nice ! Definetly gonna watch , so i imporve my protoss strategies !
I want to share my bloody tears with those who cry because the road they chose was too difficult, or those that gave up their dreams to take the road that was a little easier. -The Emperor
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
January 15 2012 15:21 GMT
#61
I've seen it a couple of times, but I don't know French so was pretty pointless.

Will check in for part 2 I guess!
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
Rabbet
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada404 Posts
January 15 2012 15:54 GMT
#62
Has part one even occured?
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
January 15 2012 16:15 GMT
#63
It's happening in 1hour45min
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
Rabbet
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada404 Posts
January 15 2012 16:15 GMT
#64
Desrow does your french differ from Tods?
Swiftx
Profile Joined July 2011
25 Posts
January 15 2012 16:23 GMT
#65
can u say double chin toss rofll

User was warned for this post
Utinni
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1196 Posts
January 15 2012 16:27 GMT
#66
On January 16 2012 01:15 Rabbet wrote:
Desrow does your french differ from Tods?

Quebec french has more slang and frenglish words... while Tod is standard hah
“... you don’t have to be Sun freakin Tzu to know that real fighting isn’t about killing or even hurting the other guy, it’s about scaring him enough to call it a day.” - Max Brooks: World War Z
Rabbet
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada404 Posts
January 15 2012 18:21 GMT
#67
Stream offline?
PhiliBiRD
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2643 Posts
January 15 2012 18:23 GMT
#68
not really sure if theres enough french fans to make it worth splitting the show up but hey what do i know

good luck!
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12770 Posts
January 15 2012 19:35 GMT
#69
On January 16 2012 03:23 PhiliBiRD wrote:
not really sure if theres enough french fans to make it worth splitting the show up but hey what do i know

good luck!

Today there is Stephano playing so there are less french fans watching his show but usually there are quite a lot of french watching the JToD!
WriterMaru
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
January 15 2012 19:36 GMT
#70
gogo epic stream
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
Chubz
Profile Joined March 2011
France119 Posts
January 15 2012 20:52 GMT
#71
pro stream
hatespam
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Romania161 Posts
January 15 2012 20:52 GMT
#72
great show, keep going
ask, and you shall have asked
JoeAWESOME
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden1080 Posts
January 15 2012 20:55 GMT
#73
Awesome! I'll check it out once Shoutcraft invitational is done
Simply Awesome! - Liquid'Ret - NSHoSeo_Seal - coLMVP_DRG - EG_Idra - Fnatic.NightEnd
paintfive
Profile Joined September 2011
785 Posts
January 15 2012 21:02 GMT
#74
on right now. more funny than educational lolol
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
January 16 2012 02:33 GMT
#75
Posted the vods enjoy =)
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
-JoKeR-
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada387 Posts
January 16 2012 02:52 GMT
#76
Cool enjoyed it
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
January 16 2012 03:23 GMT
#77
On January 16 2012 11:52 -JoKeR- wrote:
Cool enjoyed it

Thanks, any criticism is welcome! I think we need a better microphone setup TT !
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
worked13
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia93 Posts
January 16 2012 14:11 GMT
#78
Perhaps you can hook ToD up with the mic when he's coaching you, as it's his input and coaching of your game which keeps us viewers interested. Will definitely be watching the future vods of this.
drgoats
Profile Joined March 2010
United States310 Posts
January 16 2012 15:17 GMT
#79
On January 16 2012 12:23 desRow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 11:52 -JoKeR- wrote:
Cool enjoyed it

Thanks, any criticism is welcome! I think we need a better microphone setup TT !

I love these types of things because it can be so informative for the average protoss player. However, I agree with your comment. I tried to listen to your show (the English part) and had a very difficult time hearing ToD so I only made it a few minutes. I will definitely watch again if this is improved. Thanks for the content anyways!
RevRich
Profile Joined February 2011
United States218 Posts
January 16 2012 16:51 GMT
#80
On January 16 2012 23:11 worked13 wrote:
Perhaps you can hook ToD up with the mic when he's coaching you, as it's his input and coaching of your game which keeps us viewers interested. Will definitely be watching the future vods of this.


This was the first thing I noticed when trying to watch the english archive - I can't hear what ToD is saying. Great idea for a show, I'll be checking in for the vods.
Rabbet
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada404 Posts
January 16 2012 19:37 GMT
#81
Quite enjoyable to watch.

Here is a tip.

Create a theme for every week. "This week we are going to focus on .....(defending cheese or perhaps a certain map that you want to work on, a certain build)." Get some practice partners lined up who are ready and able to practice this way, get skype going with you and Tod and do custom games.

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.
worked13
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia93 Posts
January 17 2012 16:30 GMT
#82
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
January 22 2012 15:45 GMT
#83
We going live in 3hours15min hoping to see u all there will fix the mic issue as well !!
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-22 15:59:38
January 22 2012 15:57 GMT
#84
--- Nuked ---
UvealCaine
Profile Joined January 2012
United States1 Post
January 22 2012 16:07 GMT
#85
On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.

You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2

Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.

EDIT:

Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.


So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....
-stOpSKY-
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada498 Posts
January 22 2012 16:11 GMT
#86
On January 23 2012 01:07 UvealCaine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.

You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2

Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.

EDIT:

Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.


So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....


Where do all these 1-20 post people come from that defend and support desRow? Just curious. Every time I see someone come to his defense about 90% have had like 3 posts.
Josh_rakoons
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom1158 Posts
January 22 2012 16:15 GMT
#87
This guy is really good at this game!!
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
January 22 2012 16:19 GMT
#88
On January 23 2012 01:11 -stOpSKY- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 01:07 UvealCaine wrote:
On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:
On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.

You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2

Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.

EDIT:

Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.


So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....


Where do all these 1-20 post people come from that defend and support desRow? Just curious. Every time I see someone come to his defense about 90% have had like 3 posts.


From his stream, where he tells them to post on TL if they like/support him. Most of them dont post on TL often because, lets face it, they wouldn't last long if they did.
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
PodBlake
Profile Joined June 2011
France206 Posts
January 22 2012 18:04 GMT
#89
JToD is up !

GL HF ToD & Desrow !

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/ToD
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-22 18:19:15
January 22 2012 18:18 GMT
#90
--- Nuked ---
dangthatsright
Profile Joined July 2011
1158 Posts
January 22 2012 19:51 GMT
#91
On January 23 2012 00:57 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 01:30 worked13 wrote:
On January 17 2012 04:37 Rabbet wrote:

Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.


Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.

You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2

Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.

EDIT:

Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.


I would say this method is very applicable to StarCraft 2, for the most part. In particular, it is rather strong when it comes down to strategic and tactical decision making as it gives people the opportunity to possibly come up with their own solutions, or if that's not possible, they at least know the flaws in their own play and what the coach later tells them gives more insight into the game than if the coach just told them how to respond before the student made the mistake. Replace the decision making with solving problems in chemistry and mathematics, it probably would work. What these have in common is that they all are things that require some nontrivial level of active thinking (I am not qualified to say anything about driving).

However, the initial example that started this discussion was making probes, and for this particular case, I don't really see any advantage to letting people make this mistake and then telling them afterwards during a coaching session, assuming the student is doing a lot of practicing on their own as well. If you tell someone after games that they're not making probes, then that's something they'll be particularly conscious about during the games, or rather, have to be to improve with this method. Having someone repetitively tell you in the back to make probes helps free up the mind some to focus on some of the more complex aspects of the game, which is, for the most part, the end goal anyways when it comes to making probes. What does making probes not require (usually)? A nontrivial level of active thinking.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
January 22 2012 21:19 GMT
#92
I got to say I REALLY like Tod's coaching listening for awhile now. Very solid theory and has no problem saying "shut the fuck up, you are doing this shit wrong".

Cool show
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
dani`
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands2402 Posts
January 22 2012 21:27 GMT
#93
On January 23 2012 06:19 Diamond wrote:
I got to say I REALLY like Tod's coaching listening for awhile now. Very solid theory and has no problem saying "shut the fuck up, you are doing this shit wrong".

Cool show

Not sure if desRow can handle this somewhat 'harsh' coaching style though, he got quite pissed after that game vs Aphrodite where ToD told him he had horrible execution etc (and what you quoted as well). But what ToD is saying does make sense so I hope desRow will take his advice to heart ^_^
Skuller
Profile Joined September 2010
United States197 Posts
January 22 2012 21:34 GMT
#94
Just as a casual watcher of desrow's stream, he's improved a lot since he's gone to Korea.

I think ToD has very good tips. It's part of the whole Korean process of completely breaking down your play before improving. Tod seems to favor showing desrow builds that require more awareness, faster reaction, more precision. While desrow might in the short term be better playing how he normally does, it can't hurt to learn different styles.

gl hf, and gj on the show.
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
January 22 2012 21:39 GMT
#95
Having a tonne of fun watching. Learning new builds.
Don't be disheartened desrow! your obviously getting better and its always harder to play well with someone talking to you over your shoulder.
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
ratzp0li
Profile Joined December 2011
United States340 Posts
January 22 2012 21:46 GMT
#96
good watch
Kyandicake
Profile Joined January 2012
3 Posts
January 22 2012 22:02 GMT
#97
Very interesting, very fun to watch!
dubRa
Profile Joined December 2008
2165 Posts
January 22 2012 22:06 GMT
#98
good show. Tod is a cool guy
PodBlake
Profile Joined June 2011
France206 Posts
January 22 2012 22:07 GMT
#99
Nice show tongiht !

Good Luck and Have Fun in Korea ! You have to be GrandMaster ! :D
YourMom
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania565 Posts
January 22 2012 22:08 GMT
#100
Are they grandmaster or what are their ranks ? What are their account names ?
I'm very good at making carriers.
phame21
Profile Joined August 2011
Australia43 Posts
January 22 2012 22:12 GMT
#101
tod suks

User was warned for this post
That logic is post hoc ergo proctor hoc
Let it Raine
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1245 Posts
January 22 2012 22:23 GMT
#102
LOL ^

cool stuff though, ill link this to some protoss friends
Grandmaster Zerg x14. Diamond 1 LoL. MLG 50, Halo 3. Raine.
dani`
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands2402 Posts
January 22 2012 22:33 GMT
#103
On January 23 2012 07:08 YourMom wrote:
Are they grandmaster or what are their ranks ? What are their account names ?

From what I hear ToD is fairly high in GM Korea. Desrow is ~top25 Master KR.
paintfive
Profile Joined September 2011
785 Posts
January 22 2012 22:35 GMT
#104
Really really high level analysis from ToD and desRow. Also pretty funny when ToD trolls lol. I liked the special cameo by Major
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
January 23 2012 00:27 GMT
#105
On January 23 2012 06:39 ComaDose wrote:
Having a tonne of fun watching. Learning new builds.
Don't be disheartened desrow! your obviously getting better and its always harder to play well with someone talking to you over your shoulder.

it is hard and the only reason i got frustrated at times is because i play much better and faster when i play alone because i can make my own decisions when he coached me im hold back because if i do something wrong hes gonna whine :D <3 but anyway it's fun and hopefully i play better/less tired next time we do it ^_ ^
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
January 24 2012 12:49 GMT
#106
Updated the OP with the vods from last episode!
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
spbelky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States623 Posts
January 24 2012 12:58 GMT
#107
Very excited about this. These guys have a lot of knowledge to share, so this should be very educational.
SeriouR
Profile Joined November 2010
Spain622 Posts
January 27 2012 15:44 GMT
#108
This is awesome, i catch the first episode and i learnt so much but...would it be that painful to do both parts in english? Most people that speak French also speak english but it is not the same the other way around...:D
Trance music makes the fairys dance
LeLfe
Profile Joined February 2011
France3160 Posts
January 27 2012 15:53 GMT
#109
On January 28 2012 00:44 SeriouR wrote:
This is awesome, i catch the first episode and i learnt so much but...would it be that painful to do both parts in english? Most people that speak French also speak english but it is not the same the other way around...:D


oh lord, you've never been to France, haven't you?
Writer for Red bull (Fr) and Iron Squid (En/Fr) @ClemLeLfe on twitter
Notorious13009
Profile Joined November 2011
France8 Posts
January 27 2012 16:13 GMT
#110
Awesome show so far, thanks alot keep up the good work .
SeriouR
Profile Joined November 2010
Spain622 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-27 16:16:07
January 27 2012 16:15 GMT
#111
On January 28 2012 00:53 LeLfe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2012 00:44 SeriouR wrote:
This is awesome, i catch the first episode and i learnt so much but...would it be that painful to do both parts in english? Most people that speak French also speak english but it is not the same the other way around...:D


oh lord, you've never been to France, haven't you?


No, i haven't...i had the impression they did know english but they wouldn't use it for whatever pride reason. xD
Trance music makes the fairys dance
Panthae
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada205 Posts
January 29 2012 15:02 GMT
#112
On January 28 2012 01:15 SeriouR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2012 00:53 LeLfe wrote:
On January 28 2012 00:44 SeriouR wrote:
This is awesome, i catch the first episode and i learnt so much but...would it be that painful to do both parts in english? Most people that speak French also speak english but it is not the same the other way around...:D


oh lord, you've never been to France, haven't you?


No, i haven't...i had the impression they did know english but they wouldn't use it for whatever pride reason. xD


2 part show, 1 in english, 1 in french is my understanding. 2h each, so everyone's happy.
For Aïur?
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
January 29 2012 17:51 GMT
#113
We're canceling for this week, really apologize for the last minute notice T_T <3
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
RusHXceL
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1004 Posts
January 29 2012 19:23 GMT
#114
On January 30 2012 02:51 desRow wrote:
We're canceling for this week, really apologize for the last minute notice T_T <3

wtf dood I had plans to watch your show. congrats u lost a viewer here. :":":::"
myRZeth
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1047 Posts
January 29 2012 19:25 GMT
#115
tell us why did u cancel it?
that s sad
WOPR
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada145 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-29 19:39:26
January 29 2012 19:38 GMT
#116
i dont wanna hate but i saw 1 episode of this"live" and i think this is just useless.. come on desrow ... wtf u and tod speak french on that mofo.. like for real. fucking waste of time...
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ---Aristotle
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