Hey guys, this is desRow. Me and ToD have been hanging out a lot in the Gomhouse and we thought you might be interested in something we'd like to do for the community.
Back in France and even once or twice here in Korea, ToD has been doing a french show called JToD. JToD is basically him laddering while having guests on skype ask him questions about his live ladder games and question his decision making.
Also, Since ToD is a awesome person, he has been helping me with my game with strategy talk and also coached me for a dozen games.
So what does that mean for the community ? It means we want to do a 4hour show every Sunday at 1PM EST/7PM CET with 2hours of ToD laddering and me asking him questions and 2hours of him coaching me!
VODs will be available on ToD's VODs archive for the first segment and the 2nd segment will be available on my Youtube, links will be provided and this OP will be updated weekly!
VODs List:
Episode #1 ToD mostly played top50 GM players including Byunprime. I on the other end played sloppy and we mostly joked around instead of real coaching due to sleep deprivation.
Episode #2 ToD mostly played PvP's. We had a few hiccups and I ended up playing on Major's account which is about the same MMR as mine. Played against naama and startale aphrodite
Looking forward to hearing more from Desrow. Ever since he joined the gom house, his stream has become 'silent', as it were. I know he has to be quiet in respect for the other players, but it kinda sucks that he cant joke around and be a clown like usual.
Just so you know, your keyboard is probably loud enough for them to hear, so I think you can talk a little more
Off topic: I love your vlogs desrow. I like anything like that sort of thing, I watch other youtuber's channels when they make vlogs too.
Thank god ToD coaching desrow is in English, that's I think the most interesting part. Though, we won't be able to see ToD's skills then ;p (referring to ToD laddering being all in French, hard to understand :<)
Really good time you guys chose, lots of respects given that it's really late in korea. Sucks that I can't speak french, but I'll definetly tune in for the english part :D
Ah nice idea, just sad that you make it 50% french. But that's your call ofc. Might wanna try a few different variants, like 75% english and sometimes 100% and see how the viewer numbers behave.
ye ye ye ye ye ye ye ye yea, ye ye ye ye no no, ah ye ye ye ye ye.. uhuha its ok when its in a 3 way, its not gay when its in a 3 way, with a honey in the middle theres some leeway, the areas gray in a 1-2-3 way
On January 15 2012 03:58 mTwTT1 wrote: jtod more like sextod
ye ye ye ye ye ye ye ye yea, ye ye ye ye no no, ah ye ye ye ye ye.. uhuha its ok when its in a 3 way, its not gay when its in a 3 way, with a honey in the middle theres some leeway, the areas gray in a 1-2-3 way
Why not do both parts in English? I mean the first part in French seems lame considering the majority of the population watching is going to speak and want it in English.
Nice idea, very good to mix the 2 shows up as well. Keeps JToD going as it normally would but also gives us non-French speakers the option to watch and understand great coaching
Perhaps you can hook ToD up with the mic when he's coaching you, as it's his input and coaching of your game which keeps us viewers interested. Will definitely be watching the future vods of this.
On January 16 2012 11:52 -JoKeR- wrote: Cool enjoyed it
Thanks, any criticism is welcome! I think we need a better microphone setup TT !
I love these types of things because it can be so informative for the average protoss player. However, I agree with your comment. I tried to listen to your show (the English part) and had a very difficult time hearing ToD so I only made it a few minutes. I will definitely watch again if this is improved. Thanks for the content anyways!
On January 16 2012 23:11 worked13 wrote: Perhaps you can hook ToD up with the mic when he's coaching you, as it's his input and coaching of your game which keeps us viewers interested. Will definitely be watching the future vods of this.
This was the first thing I noticed when trying to watch the english archive - I can't hear what ToD is saying. Great idea for a show, I'll be checking in for the vods.
Create a theme for every week. "This week we are going to focus on .....(defending cheese or perhaps a certain map that you want to work on, a certain build)." Get some practice partners lined up who are ready and able to practice this way, get skype going with you and Tod and do custom games.
Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.
Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.
Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.
Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.
Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.
You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2
Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.
EDIT:
Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.
So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....
Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.
Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.
You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2
Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.
EDIT:
Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.
So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....
Where do all these 1-20 post people come from that defend and support desRow? Just curious. Every time I see someone come to his defense about 90% have had like 3 posts.
Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.
Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.
You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2
Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.
EDIT:
Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.
So i guess you must be a better coach then desrow? didnt think so....
Where do all these 1-20 post people come from that defend and support desRow? Just curious. Every time I see someone come to his defense about 90% have had like 3 posts.
From his stream, where he tells them to post on TL if they like/support him. Most of them dont post on TL often because, lets face it, they wouldn't last long if they did.
Having Tod behind you telling you to make probes isn't practicing with a coach, it is him telling you what to do. The practice comes with you playing your complete game, having Tod tell you what you did wrong and you improving that mistake the next game.
Post-game analysis forms only one half of coaching. Having someone there giving you prompts and suggestions in-game is just as vital I believe.
You learn by making mistakes and having them pointed out to you afterwards, not by having your mistakes corrected before they can even happen. For instance, when you're learning to drive a car you don't have the instructor preventing you from stalling, they let you do it over and over again until you get over it. They only intervene if you're gonna crash, but that's obviously not a problem in SC2
Frankly, DesRow is a terrible coach, having watched some of his coaching sessions, and what ToD is doing for him sounds like what he does for other people - it's useless.
EDIT:
Imagine trying to learn English and having a teacher stood over your shoulder going, "Put a comma there, that is spelt wrong, that word doesn't need an apostrophe" etc. Or trying to learn maths with someone doing all the answers before you can manage to do it yourself. It wouldn't work, that's why teachers don't teach like that.
I would say this method is very applicable to StarCraft 2, for the most part. In particular, it is rather strong when it comes down to strategic and tactical decision making as it gives people the opportunity to possibly come up with their own solutions, or if that's not possible, they at least know the flaws in their own play and what the coach later tells them gives more insight into the game than if the coach just told them how to respond before the student made the mistake. Replace the decision making with solving problems in chemistry and mathematics, it probably would work. What these have in common is that they all are things that require some nontrivial level of active thinking (I am not qualified to say anything about driving).
However, the initial example that started this discussion was making probes, and for this particular case, I don't really see any advantage to letting people make this mistake and then telling them afterwards during a coaching session, assuming the student is doing a lot of practicing on their own as well. If you tell someone after games that they're not making probes, then that's something they'll be particularly conscious about during the games, or rather, have to be to improve with this method. Having someone repetitively tell you in the back to make probes helps free up the mind some to focus on some of the more complex aspects of the game, which is, for the most part, the end goal anyways when it comes to making probes. What does making probes not require (usually)? A nontrivial level of active thinking.
I got to say I REALLY like Tod's coaching listening for awhile now. Very solid theory and has no problem saying "shut the fuck up, you are doing this shit wrong".
On January 23 2012 06:19 Diamond wrote: I got to say I REALLY like Tod's coaching listening for awhile now. Very solid theory and has no problem saying "shut the fuck up, you are doing this shit wrong".
Cool show
Not sure if desRow can handle this somewhat 'harsh' coaching style though, he got quite pissed after that game vs Aphrodite where ToD told him he had horrible execution etc (and what you quoted as well). But what ToD is saying does make sense so I hope desRow will take his advice to heart ^_^
Just as a casual watcher of desrow's stream, he's improved a lot since he's gone to Korea.
I think ToD has very good tips. It's part of the whole Korean process of completely breaking down your play before improving. Tod seems to favor showing desrow builds that require more awareness, faster reaction, more precision. While desrow might in the short term be better playing how he normally does, it can't hurt to learn different styles.
Having a tonne of fun watching. Learning new builds. Don't be disheartened desrow! your obviously getting better and its always harder to play well with someone talking to you over your shoulder.
On January 23 2012 06:39 ComaDose wrote: Having a tonne of fun watching. Learning new builds. Don't be disheartened desrow! your obviously getting better and its always harder to play well with someone talking to you over your shoulder.
it is hard and the only reason i got frustrated at times is because i play much better and faster when i play alone because i can make my own decisions when he coached me im hold back because if i do something wrong hes gonna whine :D <3 but anyway it's fun and hopefully i play better/less tired next time we do it ^_ ^
This is awesome, i catch the first episode and i learnt so much but...would it be that painful to do both parts in english? Most people that speak French also speak english but it is not the same the other way around...:D
On January 28 2012 00:44 SeriouR wrote: This is awesome, i catch the first episode and i learnt so much but...would it be that painful to do both parts in english? Most people that speak French also speak english but it is not the same the other way around...:D
oh lord, you've never been to France, haven't you?
On January 28 2012 00:44 SeriouR wrote: This is awesome, i catch the first episode and i learnt so much but...would it be that painful to do both parts in english? Most people that speak French also speak english but it is not the same the other way around...:D
oh lord, you've never been to France, haven't you?
No, i haven't...i had the impression they did know english but they wouldn't use it for whatever pride reason. xD
On January 28 2012 00:44 SeriouR wrote: This is awesome, i catch the first episode and i learnt so much but...would it be that painful to do both parts in english? Most people that speak French also speak english but it is not the same the other way around...:D
oh lord, you've never been to France, haven't you?
No, i haven't...i had the impression they did know english but they wouldn't use it for whatever pride reason. xD
2 part show, 1 in english, 1 in french is my understanding. 2h each, so everyone's happy.
i dont wanna hate but i saw 1 episode of this"live" and i think this is just useless.. come on desrow ... wtf u and tod speak french on that mofo.. like for real. fucking waste of time...
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/W938Z.png)
hah
