• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:04
CET 04:04
KST 12:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !6Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1053 users

[Balance] Weighing the Consequences - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
Zax19
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Czech Republic1136 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-15 13:30:22
January 15 2012 13:29 GMT
#101
The idea that many people refuse to accept a "fact" concerning Mr. Obama has nothing to do with SC2. For me, the fact is that SC2 is far from balanced. It's a game, not life, you can blame and fix the system, you don't have to put up with bad design. The problem isn't that people refuse to accept that SC2 is balanced, the problem is that progamers can't progress without ignoring design flaws and as such we lack the "trade union" which would say "Hey Blizzard, fix this, this and this or we'll stop playing your game". The only way to enjoy and improve is to ignore the design flaws, but it’s much more important to fix the obvious issues because it’s a game, not reality, it’s not set in stone.
Really Blizz, really? - Darnell
archonOOid
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1983 Posts
January 15 2012 13:54 GMT
#102
The game can be broken or imbalanced for one race or a certain strategy as you stated. The large question is whether it's good gameplay. Look at PvP for instance those changes were a result of gameplay although linked to a certain strategy. I think that gameplay should have the highest priority above balance. That's why the HOTS, the expansion, will improve gameplay not balance.
I'm Quotable (IQ)
Rockztar
Profile Joined June 2011
Denmark210 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-15 14:13:44
January 15 2012 14:13 GMT
#103
I liked the message you were trying to bring, but I have a few things about this read I'd like clarified.
First of all, which race do you(the OP) play? League? What's your background in gaming etc.
Are you in any way affiliated with Blizzard and so on.
It's important to me, when you write this saying people make statements with little research behind it that you make it clear to us who you yourself are, and what should give you credibility in your points. If I just accepted what you wrote, because I'm of the same notion we're at the exactly same point as "Imbalance Theorists".
What kind of research did you exactly do before writing this? Because you seem to think you know a lot about the mindset of players, and what kind of actions should/could be made. Be careful you don't walk down the same path the exact same path the people you're calling out to in this post did. When all comes to all, this read has zero statistics, and is just a bunch of assumptions making it comparable to "Imbalance Theorists" statements.
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
January 15 2012 15:04 GMT
#104
I really hate to say this, but I stopped reading when the OP said that 5RR wasn't imbalanced and had been "solved". The reality is that it HADN'T been solved. There was no new build order that fixed it, no modifications to play that made it easier to hold off. Terrans screwed it up because their micro wasn't up to par (just like everyone else). I'm sure that if we'd seen it develop further, Terrans would have refined the build by harassing with one early Reaper to force Zerglings and then building up a critical mass at home. You know, like Protosses do with Corsairs in Broodwar.The reason the build died out wasn't Zerg innovation, it was multiple sweeping changes from increased Reaper build time to delayed Reaper speed to the huge increase in Roach range. Furthermore, there was no reason to assume that it was possible for Zergs to develop a way to counter this build. It hit early enough that there were no tech options beyond Zerglings and Roaches. Zerglings were a fragile option, and only worked as long as Terran didn't have a critical mass of Reapers. Roaches could be kited, and were actually what the build was trying to force in the first place so that the Terran could switch into Marauders and instantly win. Your misconception that it was going "out of fashion" or that Zergs were learning to counter it invalidates your entire post, because it shows that you don't understand that there have been incredibly imbalanced builds. 5RR was the most imbalanced of them all, and saying that it had been figured out is vastly ignorant.
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
ThomasHobbes
Profile Joined October 2010
United States197 Posts
January 15 2012 23:20 GMT
#105
Should players focus on improving their own skill? --> Yes

Does this have anything, at all, to do with the balance discussion? --> No

Imbalance exists, whether you focus on it or not, you should not, for the sake of your sanity and your skill level, focus on it to the exclusion of practice, but that does not mean that imbalance either doesn't exist, or that individuals who point out imbalance ought to be dismissed as whiners.
"The life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."
Tortious_Tortoise
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States944 Posts
January 16 2012 03:20 GMT
#106
On January 15 2012 23:13 Rockztar wrote:
I liked the message you were trying to bring, but I have a few things about this read I'd like clarified.
First of all, which race do you(the OP) play? League? What's your background in gaming etc.
Are you in any way affiliated with Blizzard and so on.
It's important to me, when you write this saying people make statements with little research behind it that you make it clear to us who you yourself are, and what should give you credibility in your points. If I just accepted what you wrote, because I'm of the same notion we're at the exactly same point as "Imbalance Theorists".
What kind of research did you exactly do before writing this? Because you seem to think you know a lot about the mindset of players, and what kind of actions should/could be made. Be careful you don't walk down the same path the exact same path the people you're calling out to in this post did. When all comes to all, this read has zero statistics, and is just a bunch of assumptions making it comparable to "Imbalance Theorists" statements.


My tag is Morte, I'm a Diamond level Terran on NA who is majoring in International Studies with a double minor in Economics and Political Science at The Ohio State University.

With regards to my background in gaming, in my experience there are two types of gamers-- those who explore the depths of as many games as they can get their hands on, and those who invest all of their time into one game and one community. I am of the latter category. When my brother buys FPS games for x-box, I beat the campaign on easy and never touch them again. Almost all of my extra-curricular time is devoted to StarCraft.

I have no affiliation with Blizzard except a special fondness for their games-- BW, WC3, D2, WoW, and, now StarCraft II.

Essentially, I have no empirical evidence to support my claim-- it's incredibly hard to find empirical evidence that can clearly prove my affirmative or its negative. It's much more of a StarCraft weltanschauung-- a philosophy. It's almost impossible to effectively argue a philosophy, so my OP was more of an attempt to structure the little evidence I have in such a manner that it's understandable, and hopefully, mildly persuasive.
Treating eSports as a social science since 2011; Credo: "The system is never wrong"-- Day9 Daily #400 Part 3
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 56m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 171
ProTech130
Nathanias 64
Ketroc 42
Vindicta 24
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 539
Bale 221
Mong 30
Noble 29
Hm[arnc] 15
League of Legends
C9.Mang0388
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox300
Other Games
summit1g9225
Day[9].tv595
XaKoH 567
PiGStarcraft445
ViBE190
Maynarde112
Trikslyr79
CosmosSc2 41
Mew2King39
Livibee31
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki14
• Pr0nogo 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22637
League of Legends
• Doublelift3590
Other Games
• Scarra666
• Day9tv595
Upcoming Events
WardiTV 2025
7h 56m
ByuN vs Creator
Clem vs Rogue
Scarlett vs Spirit
ShoWTimE vs Cure
OSC
10h 56m
Big Brain Bouts
13h 56m
YoungYakov vs Jumy
TriGGeR vs Spirit
CranKy Ducklings
1d 6h
WardiTV 2025
1d 7h
Reynor vs MaxPax
SHIN vs TBD
Solar vs herO
Classic vs TBD
SC Evo League
1d 9h
Ladder Legends
1d 15h
BSL 21
1d 16h
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Ladder Legends
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
2 days
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.