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BoSs' blog gets a lot of shoutouts and that stuff is old. I've already said my two cents on it somewhere. Might have been someone else's blog on this website.
Anyway,
On January 11 2012 19:36 ReaperX wrote:
Please not kespa...
It would help make the scene more legitimate in Korea. After seeing the direction the Korean scene is headed in, the SC2 circuit in Korea could definitely use their help.
There's a lot of misinformation out there about KeSPA. Yes, they've made their mistakes like anyone else in the past, but you will grow to appreciate their body of work as a whole.
On January 11 2012 02:51 Nightmare-br wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 02:47 Ansinjunger wrote:On January 11 2012 02:24 Nightmare-br wrote:On January 10 2012 23:47 HaXXspetten wrote:On January 10 2012 23:44 zul wrote:Jaedong to IM and I`m the happiest nerdling on earth.  IMJaedong sounds terrible... honestly just about all team-player combinations sounds terrrible for Flash/Jaedong. Edit: Just imagine any of them joining Prime, LOL what a fail that would be xD FlashPrime & JaedongPrime ftw >.< I like the sound of oGs_Flash Oh, but making these names up is fun :0 coL.MVPFlash sounds pretty good, as does FXOJaedong. IMStork. oGsBisu. SlayerSFantasy (obligatory). FXOBest (heh). NsHs_Hydra. TSL_Zero. Startale_Effort. ZenexStats. BabyPrime.WE. Mouz.Stats. EGJangBi for an even more tongue-tying name than EGJYP. We also need a young up and coming zerg to name himself Jaedong, so we can call him Faedong. With any amount of bad luck, they'll just change their names like forGG and cause mass confusion. Don't forget Liquid'FireBatHero. haha Liquid'FireBatHero would be so sick
If KeSPA do get involved. It will be their sponsors. The likelihood of those tags ever being achieved is if the players retire from BW and switch before KeSPA makes it official or if those other teams find a way into the Association, which I'm sure will be a hot topic and BoSs will certainly have his fair share to say on that matter, but that's a story for another day.
It's a pretty big IF and I'm sure every Western Team will have legitimate concerns when it comes down to joining KeSPA and their sanctioned events.
KeSPA will try to make you play by their rules.
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On January 20 2012 23:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 23:49 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:35 Pure-SC2 wrote:On January 20 2012 23:17 iLoveKT wrote:
In my opinion, I dont think teams from BW except samsung are gonna follow suit to sc2. I have no knowledge about this coz I dont religiously follow sc2 but if it is true that sc2 isnt doing relatively well in Korea, why would they want to sponsor a team for that game. Sc2 is more popular outside korea so why would companies like KT, SKT, Woongjin, CJ, etc. ,who are based for the most part in Korea only, want to sponsor an sc2 team when they wont gain anything, specially advertising, from it. The possibility of them sponsoring a LoL (I heard LoL is getting big in Korea) team is bigger than them sponsoring an SC2 team, imo. Except for samsung, obviously because they are a global brand. But that's a reasonable short term view of things. As SC2 grows, the skill level, player base, fandom and everything else will grow with it until eventually there is a whole new generation who grew up with SC2. SC2 is still in its infancy, it's first (of two) expansions is not too far away, and it is the RTS of the future for the time being. In the short term (based on the hints that we are getting), there is going to be an influx of BW players moving over, and a new Korean SC2 league in place. This is going to change the whole landscape for Korean SC2, and will mean that the Korean companies you quoted will have every reason to sponsor an SC2 team. I've no idea what the time frame would be on this, as I'm no insider, but it's going to happen. And the more top level players the SC2 scene, the better the quality of games we are going to see. We're already seeing more and more amazing games, and the overall level of those at the top in SC2 is continuing to grow and it's a great thing. I for one am very excited about this and can't wait for the full details to come out. Sc2 receiving great strategist like Boxer , Mechanical genius Nada , God Of War July from the bw pool of talents could not make sc2 interesting as brood war did . How can my bonjwa Flash , Jaedong,Stork and Bisu is going to do anything more to the game when the game has it's own limitation to what the unit's can do ? . I do not doubt it may be the future game of rts , but that doesn't mean it will be , looking at how thing's are going maybe more casual oriented games like Dota 2 and Lol will be the more suitable candidate to be a popular RTS in the future. Are you really comparing Boxer, Nada, and July to Bisu, JD, Flash???? That's soooo wrong. Boxer/Nada/July aren't anywhere near the skill level or Bisu/JD/Flash. The things you mentioned about them were all outstanding, like, a really, really, really long time ago (slight exception with Nada).
They are all talented players who by will power can make and break through all challenges .Way to underestimate how significant this figures has been to the broodwar scene , they made full use of every unit's in broodwar and push it to the limit . Looking at how thing's have been going for Boxer and friends they aren't doing anything that is really revolutionary to the sc2 scene and even with their great experience in a RTS game can't do a thing . What can Flash do to make sc2 even better when you have already our pioneers who started and made the broodwar scene ? . Nothing I believe , Flash and Co will not make sc2 any better .
Heh of course I can compare boxer to flash , boxer even won flash in a TvT , isn't that enough to say he is talented as flash ? .
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most pros that retire from bw currently (contracts run out and a new format) go into military service only a few think about switching to sc2, before going into military service. So i guess we have to wait till the bw pros done their military service before they work on their sc2 career.
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On January 21 2012 00:08 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 23:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 20 2012 23:49 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:35 Pure-SC2 wrote:On January 20 2012 23:17 iLoveKT wrote:
In my opinion, I dont think teams from BW except samsung are gonna follow suit to sc2. I have no knowledge about this coz I dont religiously follow sc2 but if it is true that sc2 isnt doing relatively well in Korea, why would they want to sponsor a team for that game. Sc2 is more popular outside korea so why would companies like KT, SKT, Woongjin, CJ, etc. ,who are based for the most part in Korea only, want to sponsor an sc2 team when they wont gain anything, specially advertising, from it. The possibility of them sponsoring a LoL (I heard LoL is getting big in Korea) team is bigger than them sponsoring an SC2 team, imo. Except for samsung, obviously because they are a global brand. But that's a reasonable short term view of things. As SC2 grows, the skill level, player base, fandom and everything else will grow with it until eventually there is a whole new generation who grew up with SC2. SC2 is still in its infancy, it's first (of two) expansions is not too far away, and it is the RTS of the future for the time being. In the short term (based on the hints that we are getting), there is going to be an influx of BW players moving over, and a new Korean SC2 league in place. This is going to change the whole landscape for Korean SC2, and will mean that the Korean companies you quoted will have every reason to sponsor an SC2 team. I've no idea what the time frame would be on this, as I'm no insider, but it's going to happen. And the more top level players the SC2 scene, the better the quality of games we are going to see. We're already seeing more and more amazing games, and the overall level of those at the top in SC2 is continuing to grow and it's a great thing. I for one am very excited about this and can't wait for the full details to come out. Sc2 receiving great strategist like Boxer , Mechanical genius Nada , God Of War July from the bw pool of talents could not make sc2 interesting as brood war did . How can my bonjwa Flash , Jaedong,Stork and Bisu is going to do anything more to the game when the game has it's own limitation to what the unit's can do ? . I do not doubt it may be the future game of rts , but that doesn't mean it will be , looking at how thing's are going maybe more casual oriented games like Dota 2 and Lol will be the more suitable candidate to be a popular RTS in the future. Are you really comparing Boxer, Nada, and July to Bisu, JD, Flash???? That's soooo wrong. Boxer/Nada/July aren't anywhere near the skill level or Bisu/JD/Flash. The things you mentioned about them were all outstanding, like, a really, really, really long time ago (slight exception with Nada). They are all talented players who by will power can make and break through all challenges .Way to underestimate how significant this figures has been to the broodwar scene , they made full use of every unit's in broodwar and push it to the limit . Looking at how thing's have been going for Boxer and friends they aren't doing anything that is really revolutionary to the sc2 scene and even with their great experience in a RTS game can't do a thing . What can Flash do to make sc2 even better when you have already our pioneers who started and made the broodwar scene ? . Nothing I believe , Flash and Co will not make sc2 any better . Heh of course I can compare boxer to flash , boxer even won flash in a TvT , isn't that enough to say he is talented as flash ? .
The game played 4 - 7 years ago and now is really different, even if boxer was able to take a game off flash, probably the chance to win in a box match is close to zero.
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Are there any new hints or anything regarding this?
I'd love to see'em
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On January 21 2012 00:34 Darksoldierr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 00:08 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 20 2012 23:49 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:35 Pure-SC2 wrote:On January 20 2012 23:17 iLoveKT wrote:
In my opinion, I dont think teams from BW except samsung are gonna follow suit to sc2. I have no knowledge about this coz I dont religiously follow sc2 but if it is true that sc2 isnt doing relatively well in Korea, why would they want to sponsor a team for that game. Sc2 is more popular outside korea so why would companies like KT, SKT, Woongjin, CJ, etc. ,who are based for the most part in Korea only, want to sponsor an sc2 team when they wont gain anything, specially advertising, from it. The possibility of them sponsoring a LoL (I heard LoL is getting big in Korea) team is bigger than them sponsoring an SC2 team, imo. Except for samsung, obviously because they are a global brand. But that's a reasonable short term view of things. As SC2 grows, the skill level, player base, fandom and everything else will grow with it until eventually there is a whole new generation who grew up with SC2. SC2 is still in its infancy, it's first (of two) expansions is not too far away, and it is the RTS of the future for the time being. In the short term (based on the hints that we are getting), there is going to be an influx of BW players moving over, and a new Korean SC2 league in place. This is going to change the whole landscape for Korean SC2, and will mean that the Korean companies you quoted will have every reason to sponsor an SC2 team. I've no idea what the time frame would be on this, as I'm no insider, but it's going to happen. And the more top level players the SC2 scene, the better the quality of games we are going to see. We're already seeing more and more amazing games, and the overall level of those at the top in SC2 is continuing to grow and it's a great thing. I for one am very excited about this and can't wait for the full details to come out. Sc2 receiving great strategist like Boxer , Mechanical genius Nada , God Of War July from the bw pool of talents could not make sc2 interesting as brood war did . How can my bonjwa Flash , Jaedong,Stork and Bisu is going to do anything more to the game when the game has it's own limitation to what the unit's can do ? . I do not doubt it may be the future game of rts , but that doesn't mean it will be , looking at how thing's are going maybe more casual oriented games like Dota 2 and Lol will be the more suitable candidate to be a popular RTS in the future. Are you really comparing Boxer, Nada, and July to Bisu, JD, Flash???? That's soooo wrong. Boxer/Nada/July aren't anywhere near the skill level or Bisu/JD/Flash. The things you mentioned about them were all outstanding, like, a really, really, really long time ago (slight exception with Nada). They are all talented players who by will power can make and break through all challenges .Way to underestimate how significant this figures has been to the broodwar scene , they made full use of every unit's in broodwar and push it to the limit . Looking at how thing's have been going for Boxer and friends they aren't doing anything that is really revolutionary to the sc2 scene and even with their great experience in a RTS game can't do a thing . What can Flash do to make sc2 even better when you have already our pioneers who started and made the broodwar scene ? . Nothing I believe , Flash and Co will not make sc2 any better . Heh of course I can compare boxer to flash , boxer even won flash in a TvT , isn't that enough to say he is talented as flash ? . The game played 4 - 7 years ago and now is really different, even if boxer was able to take a game off flash, probably the chance to win in a box match is close to zero.
If I created a time paradox and travel the current flash , into the time when Boxer was at his prime , You think Boxer wouldn't have taken down or even made the Game in a Box a little closer to winning ? .It's pretty moot point that you are saying , the fact is what Flash and Co is doing is already have been discovered a long time ago thanks to Nada,July ,Garimto and Boxer , without them experimenting and pushing every unit's to their limits . The scene wouldn't have become the way it is right now .
Also I want to say good luck to flash in the box game , the weird map's he has to play with boxer at his prime , he will be wishing he is back in 2011 .
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On January 21 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 00:34 Darksoldierr wrote:On January 21 2012 00:08 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 20 2012 23:49 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:35 Pure-SC2 wrote:On January 20 2012 23:17 iLoveKT wrote:
In my opinion, I dont think teams from BW except samsung are gonna follow suit to sc2. I have no knowledge about this coz I dont religiously follow sc2 but if it is true that sc2 isnt doing relatively well in Korea, why would they want to sponsor a team for that game. Sc2 is more popular outside korea so why would companies like KT, SKT, Woongjin, CJ, etc. ,who are based for the most part in Korea only, want to sponsor an sc2 team when they wont gain anything, specially advertising, from it. The possibility of them sponsoring a LoL (I heard LoL is getting big in Korea) team is bigger than them sponsoring an SC2 team, imo. Except for samsung, obviously because they are a global brand. But that's a reasonable short term view of things. As SC2 grows, the skill level, player base, fandom and everything else will grow with it until eventually there is a whole new generation who grew up with SC2. SC2 is still in its infancy, it's first (of two) expansions is not too far away, and it is the RTS of the future for the time being. In the short term (based on the hints that we are getting), there is going to be an influx of BW players moving over, and a new Korean SC2 league in place. This is going to change the whole landscape for Korean SC2, and will mean that the Korean companies you quoted will have every reason to sponsor an SC2 team. I've no idea what the time frame would be on this, as I'm no insider, but it's going to happen. And the more top level players the SC2 scene, the better the quality of games we are going to see. We're already seeing more and more amazing games, and the overall level of those at the top in SC2 is continuing to grow and it's a great thing. I for one am very excited about this and can't wait for the full details to come out. Sc2 receiving great strategist like Boxer , Mechanical genius Nada , God Of War July from the bw pool of talents could not make sc2 interesting as brood war did . How can my bonjwa Flash , Jaedong,Stork and Bisu is going to do anything more to the game when the game has it's own limitation to what the unit's can do ? . I do not doubt it may be the future game of rts , but that doesn't mean it will be , looking at how thing's are going maybe more casual oriented games like Dota 2 and Lol will be the more suitable candidate to be a popular RTS in the future. Are you really comparing Boxer, Nada, and July to Bisu, JD, Flash???? That's soooo wrong. Boxer/Nada/July aren't anywhere near the skill level or Bisu/JD/Flash. The things you mentioned about them were all outstanding, like, a really, really, really long time ago (slight exception with Nada). They are all talented players who by will power can make and break through all challenges .Way to underestimate how significant this figures has been to the broodwar scene , they made full use of every unit's in broodwar and push it to the limit . Looking at how thing's have been going for Boxer and friends they aren't doing anything that is really revolutionary to the sc2 scene and even with their great experience in a RTS game can't do a thing . What can Flash do to make sc2 even better when you have already our pioneers who started and made the broodwar scene ? . Nothing I believe , Flash and Co will not make sc2 any better . Heh of course I can compare boxer to flash , boxer even won flash in a TvT , isn't that enough to say he is talented as flash ? . The game played 4 - 7 years ago and now is really different, even if boxer was able to take a game off flash, probably the chance to win in a box match is close to zero. If I created a time paradox and travel the current flash , into the time when Boxer was at his prime , You think Boxer wouldn't have taken down or even made the Game in a Box a little closer to winning ? .It's pretty moot point that you are saying , the fact is what Flash and Co is doing is already have been discovered a long time ago thanks to Nada,July ,Garimto and Boxer , without them experimenting and pushing every unit's to their limits . The scene wouldn't have become the way it is right now .
Nope. Current Flash is better than previous Boxer. That is all. Here, let me try:
If I created a time paradox and travel the current Marathon Runner World Record Holder , into the time when X Previous Record Holder was at his prime, You think X Previous Record Holder wouldn't have taken down or even made the Marathon Race a little closer to winning ? .
I understand your point that at the time Boxer was innovative. Why do you assume I wasn't aware? However injecting him into the SC2 scene is simply not comparable to injecting Flash/JD/Bisu into the SC2 scene, TODAY, now. You're making a fallacious assumption so I'll just leave it at that if you still wish to disagree. To each his own...opinion
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On January 21 2012 00:53 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote:On January 21 2012 00:34 Darksoldierr wrote:On January 21 2012 00:08 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 20 2012 23:49 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:35 Pure-SC2 wrote:On January 20 2012 23:17 iLoveKT wrote:
In my opinion, I dont think teams from BW except samsung are gonna follow suit to sc2. I have no knowledge about this coz I dont religiously follow sc2 but if it is true that sc2 isnt doing relatively well in Korea, why would they want to sponsor a team for that game. Sc2 is more popular outside korea so why would companies like KT, SKT, Woongjin, CJ, etc. ,who are based for the most part in Korea only, want to sponsor an sc2 team when they wont gain anything, specially advertising, from it. The possibility of them sponsoring a LoL (I heard LoL is getting big in Korea) team is bigger than them sponsoring an SC2 team, imo. Except for samsung, obviously because they are a global brand. But that's a reasonable short term view of things. As SC2 grows, the skill level, player base, fandom and everything else will grow with it until eventually there is a whole new generation who grew up with SC2. SC2 is still in its infancy, it's first (of two) expansions is not too far away, and it is the RTS of the future for the time being. In the short term (based on the hints that we are getting), there is going to be an influx of BW players moving over, and a new Korean SC2 league in place. This is going to change the whole landscape for Korean SC2, and will mean that the Korean companies you quoted will have every reason to sponsor an SC2 team. I've no idea what the time frame would be on this, as I'm no insider, but it's going to happen. And the more top level players the SC2 scene, the better the quality of games we are going to see. We're already seeing more and more amazing games, and the overall level of those at the top in SC2 is continuing to grow and it's a great thing. I for one am very excited about this and can't wait for the full details to come out. Sc2 receiving great strategist like Boxer , Mechanical genius Nada , God Of War July from the bw pool of talents could not make sc2 interesting as brood war did . How can my bonjwa Flash , Jaedong,Stork and Bisu is going to do anything more to the game when the game has it's own limitation to what the unit's can do ? . I do not doubt it may be the future game of rts , but that doesn't mean it will be , looking at how thing's are going maybe more casual oriented games like Dota 2 and Lol will be the more suitable candidate to be a popular RTS in the future. Are you really comparing Boxer, Nada, and July to Bisu, JD, Flash???? That's soooo wrong. Boxer/Nada/July aren't anywhere near the skill level or Bisu/JD/Flash. The things you mentioned about them were all outstanding, like, a really, really, really long time ago (slight exception with Nada). They are all talented players who by will power can make and break through all challenges .Way to underestimate how significant this figures has been to the broodwar scene , they made full use of every unit's in broodwar and push it to the limit . Looking at how thing's have been going for Boxer and friends they aren't doing anything that is really revolutionary to the sc2 scene and even with their great experience in a RTS game can't do a thing . What can Flash do to make sc2 even better when you have already our pioneers who started and made the broodwar scene ? . Nothing I believe , Flash and Co will not make sc2 any better . Heh of course I can compare boxer to flash , boxer even won flash in a TvT , isn't that enough to say he is talented as flash ? . The game played 4 - 7 years ago and now is really different, even if boxer was able to take a game off flash, probably the chance to win in a box match is close to zero. If I created a time paradox and travel the current flash , into the time when Boxer was at his prime , You think Boxer wouldn't have taken down or even made the Game in a Box a little closer to winning ? .It's pretty moot point that you are saying , the fact is what Flash and Co is doing is already have been discovered a long time ago thanks to Nada,July ,Garimto and Boxer , without them experimenting and pushing every unit's to their limits . The scene wouldn't have become the way it is right now . Nope. Current Flash is better than previous Boxer. That is all. Here, let me try: If I created a time paradox and travel the current Marathon Runner World Record Holder , into the time when X Previous Record Holder was at his prime, You think X Previous Record Holder wouldn't have taken down or even made the Marathon Race a little closer to winning ? . I understand your point that at the time Boxer was innovative. Why do you assume I wasn't aware? However injecting him into the SC2 scene is simply not comparable to injecting Flash/JD/Bisu into the SC2 scene, TODAY, now. You're making a fallacious assumption so I'll just leave it at that if you still wish to disagree. To each his own...opinion
Sure, that Flash in his prime is better than Boxer in his prime. Simply because game is figured out. When Boxer started RTS games were kinda new, and most of the players barely used hotkeys/keyboards at all.
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On January 21 2012 00:58 mtn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 00:53 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 21 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote:On January 21 2012 00:34 Darksoldierr wrote:On January 21 2012 00:08 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 20 2012 23:49 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:35 Pure-SC2 wrote:On January 20 2012 23:17 iLoveKT wrote:
In my opinion, I dont think teams from BW except samsung are gonna follow suit to sc2. I have no knowledge about this coz I dont religiously follow sc2 but if it is true that sc2 isnt doing relatively well in Korea, why would they want to sponsor a team for that game. Sc2 is more popular outside korea so why would companies like KT, SKT, Woongjin, CJ, etc. ,who are based for the most part in Korea only, want to sponsor an sc2 team when they wont gain anything, specially advertising, from it. The possibility of them sponsoring a LoL (I heard LoL is getting big in Korea) team is bigger than them sponsoring an SC2 team, imo. Except for samsung, obviously because they are a global brand. But that's a reasonable short term view of things. As SC2 grows, the skill level, player base, fandom and everything else will grow with it until eventually there is a whole new generation who grew up with SC2. SC2 is still in its infancy, it's first (of two) expansions is not too far away, and it is the RTS of the future for the time being. In the short term (based on the hints that we are getting), there is going to be an influx of BW players moving over, and a new Korean SC2 league in place. This is going to change the whole landscape for Korean SC2, and will mean that the Korean companies you quoted will have every reason to sponsor an SC2 team. I've no idea what the time frame would be on this, as I'm no insider, but it's going to happen. And the more top level players the SC2 scene, the better the quality of games we are going to see. We're already seeing more and more amazing games, and the overall level of those at the top in SC2 is continuing to grow and it's a great thing. I for one am very excited about this and can't wait for the full details to come out. Sc2 receiving great strategist like Boxer , Mechanical genius Nada , God Of War July from the bw pool of talents could not make sc2 interesting as brood war did . How can my bonjwa Flash , Jaedong,Stork and Bisu is going to do anything more to the game when the game has it's own limitation to what the unit's can do ? . I do not doubt it may be the future game of rts , but that doesn't mean it will be , looking at how thing's are going maybe more casual oriented games like Dota 2 and Lol will be the more suitable candidate to be a popular RTS in the future. Are you really comparing Boxer, Nada, and July to Bisu, JD, Flash???? That's soooo wrong. Boxer/Nada/July aren't anywhere near the skill level or Bisu/JD/Flash. The things you mentioned about them were all outstanding, like, a really, really, really long time ago (slight exception with Nada). They are all talented players who by will power can make and break through all challenges .Way to underestimate how significant this figures has been to the broodwar scene , they made full use of every unit's in broodwar and push it to the limit . Looking at how thing's have been going for Boxer and friends they aren't doing anything that is really revolutionary to the sc2 scene and even with their great experience in a RTS game can't do a thing . What can Flash do to make sc2 even better when you have already our pioneers who started and made the broodwar scene ? . Nothing I believe , Flash and Co will not make sc2 any better . Heh of course I can compare boxer to flash , boxer even won flash in a TvT , isn't that enough to say he is talented as flash ? . The game played 4 - 7 years ago and now is really different, even if boxer was able to take a game off flash, probably the chance to win in a box match is close to zero. If I created a time paradox and travel the current flash , into the time when Boxer was at his prime , You think Boxer wouldn't have taken down or even made the Game in a Box a little closer to winning ? .It's pretty moot point that you are saying , the fact is what Flash and Co is doing is already have been discovered a long time ago thanks to Nada,July ,Garimto and Boxer , without them experimenting and pushing every unit's to their limits . The scene wouldn't have become the way it is right now . Nope. Current Flash is better than previous Boxer. That is all. Here, let me try: If I created a time paradox and travel the current Marathon Runner World Record Holder , into the time when X Previous Record Holder was at his prime, You think X Previous Record Holder wouldn't have taken down or even made the Marathon Race a little closer to winning ? . I understand your point that at the time Boxer was innovative. Why do you assume I wasn't aware? However injecting him into the SC2 scene is simply not comparable to injecting Flash/JD/Bisu into the SC2 scene, TODAY, now. You're making a fallacious assumption so I'll just leave it at that if you still wish to disagree. To each his own...opinion Sure, that Flash in his prime is better than Boxer in his prime. Simply because game is figured out.
I disagree. What if Flash is better now because his game sense is better? Or mechanics? I simply don't agree that Flash is only better because "the game's figured out", that does not compute with me
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On January 21 2012 00:53 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote:On January 21 2012 00:34 Darksoldierr wrote:On January 21 2012 00:08 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 20 2012 23:49 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:35 Pure-SC2 wrote:On January 20 2012 23:17 iLoveKT wrote:
In my opinion, I dont think teams from BW except samsung are gonna follow suit to sc2. I have no knowledge about this coz I dont religiously follow sc2 but if it is true that sc2 isnt doing relatively well in Korea, why would they want to sponsor a team for that game. Sc2 is more popular outside korea so why would companies like KT, SKT, Woongjin, CJ, etc. ,who are based for the most part in Korea only, want to sponsor an sc2 team when they wont gain anything, specially advertising, from it. The possibility of them sponsoring a LoL (I heard LoL is getting big in Korea) team is bigger than them sponsoring an SC2 team, imo. Except for samsung, obviously because they are a global brand. But that's a reasonable short term view of things. As SC2 grows, the skill level, player base, fandom and everything else will grow with it until eventually there is a whole new generation who grew up with SC2. SC2 is still in its infancy, it's first (of two) expansions is not too far away, and it is the RTS of the future for the time being. In the short term (based on the hints that we are getting), there is going to be an influx of BW players moving over, and a new Korean SC2 league in place. This is going to change the whole landscape for Korean SC2, and will mean that the Korean companies you quoted will have every reason to sponsor an SC2 team. I've no idea what the time frame would be on this, as I'm no insider, but it's going to happen. And the more top level players the SC2 scene, the better the quality of games we are going to see. We're already seeing more and more amazing games, and the overall level of those at the top in SC2 is continuing to grow and it's a great thing. I for one am very excited about this and can't wait for the full details to come out. Sc2 receiving great strategist like Boxer , Mechanical genius Nada , God Of War July from the bw pool of talents could not make sc2 interesting as brood war did . How can my bonjwa Flash , Jaedong,Stork and Bisu is going to do anything more to the game when the game has it's own limitation to what the unit's can do ? . I do not doubt it may be the future game of rts , but that doesn't mean it will be , looking at how thing's are going maybe more casual oriented games like Dota 2 and Lol will be the more suitable candidate to be a popular RTS in the future. Are you really comparing Boxer, Nada, and July to Bisu, JD, Flash???? That's soooo wrong. Boxer/Nada/July aren't anywhere near the skill level or Bisu/JD/Flash. The things you mentioned about them were all outstanding, like, a really, really, really long time ago (slight exception with Nada). They are all talented players who by will power can make and break through all challenges .Way to underestimate how significant this figures has been to the broodwar scene , they made full use of every unit's in broodwar and push it to the limit . Looking at how thing's have been going for Boxer and friends they aren't doing anything that is really revolutionary to the sc2 scene and even with their great experience in a RTS game can't do a thing . What can Flash do to make sc2 even better when you have already our pioneers who started and made the broodwar scene ? . Nothing I believe , Flash and Co will not make sc2 any better . Heh of course I can compare boxer to flash , boxer even won flash in a TvT , isn't that enough to say he is talented as flash ? . The game played 4 - 7 years ago and now is really different, even if boxer was able to take a game off flash, probably the chance to win in a box match is close to zero. If I created a time paradox and travel the current flash , into the time when Boxer was at his prime , You think Boxer wouldn't have taken down or even made the Game in a Box a little closer to winning ? .It's pretty moot point that you are saying , the fact is what Flash and Co is doing is already have been discovered a long time ago thanks to Nada,July ,Garimto and Boxer , without them experimenting and pushing every unit's to their limits . The scene wouldn't have become the way it is right now . Nope. Current Flash is better than previous Boxer. That is all. Here, let me try: If I created a time paradox and travel the current Marathon Runner World Record Holder , into the time when X Previous Record Holder was at his prime, You think X Previous Record Holder wouldn't have taken down or even made the Marathon Race a little closer to winning ? . I understand your point that at the time Boxer was innovative. Why do you assume I wasn't aware? However injecting him into the SC2 scene is simply not comparable to injecting Flash/JD/Bisu into the SC2 scene, TODAY, now. You're making a fallacious assumption so I'll just leave it at that if you still wish to disagree. To each his own...opinion
Map's back than wouldn't be suitable for flash kind of play , boxer will triumph and win Flash , if Flash was actually to play those weird and quirky maps back than . Boxer creativity gave birth to all the strategy , terran's have been doing now day and even also credited to oov for being economical . I didn't assume if you aren't aware , I thought these are just basics thing a starcraft fan on tl.net should know .
Fallacious or not I maybe wrong and I maybe right that Flash and Co will not dominate sc2 as you think they would and I am still going on the basis that nothing would change because of the game limitation sc2 is providing to the players right now . Give Boxer in sc2 a Marine and Medic team that can do as much as damage as it could in broodwar and survive as long as they could be micro and I will show you how sc2 is going to make people jaw's drop .
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I come in here hoping to catch a glimpse of which sc1 koreans are crossing over, and I fall into an argument over prime Boxer vs current Flash.
DERAIL'D!
Any word on who the people coming over are?
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On January 21 2012 01:02 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 00:53 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 21 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote:On January 21 2012 00:34 Darksoldierr wrote:On January 21 2012 00:08 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 20 2012 23:49 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:35 Pure-SC2 wrote:On January 20 2012 23:17 iLoveKT wrote:
In my opinion, I dont think teams from BW except samsung are gonna follow suit to sc2. I have no knowledge about this coz I dont religiously follow sc2 but if it is true that sc2 isnt doing relatively well in Korea, why would they want to sponsor a team for that game. Sc2 is more popular outside korea so why would companies like KT, SKT, Woongjin, CJ, etc. ,who are based for the most part in Korea only, want to sponsor an sc2 team when they wont gain anything, specially advertising, from it. The possibility of them sponsoring a LoL (I heard LoL is getting big in Korea) team is bigger than them sponsoring an SC2 team, imo. Except for samsung, obviously because they are a global brand. But that's a reasonable short term view of things. As SC2 grows, the skill level, player base, fandom and everything else will grow with it until eventually there is a whole new generation who grew up with SC2. SC2 is still in its infancy, it's first (of two) expansions is not too far away, and it is the RTS of the future for the time being. In the short term (based on the hints that we are getting), there is going to be an influx of BW players moving over, and a new Korean SC2 league in place. This is going to change the whole landscape for Korean SC2, and will mean that the Korean companies you quoted will have every reason to sponsor an SC2 team. I've no idea what the time frame would be on this, as I'm no insider, but it's going to happen. And the more top level players the SC2 scene, the better the quality of games we are going to see. We're already seeing more and more amazing games, and the overall level of those at the top in SC2 is continuing to grow and it's a great thing. I for one am very excited about this and can't wait for the full details to come out. Sc2 receiving great strategist like Boxer , Mechanical genius Nada , God Of War July from the bw pool of talents could not make sc2 interesting as brood war did . How can my bonjwa Flash , Jaedong,Stork and Bisu is going to do anything more to the game when the game has it's own limitation to what the unit's can do ? . I do not doubt it may be the future game of rts , but that doesn't mean it will be , looking at how thing's are going maybe more casual oriented games like Dota 2 and Lol will be the more suitable candidate to be a popular RTS in the future. Are you really comparing Boxer, Nada, and July to Bisu, JD, Flash???? That's soooo wrong. Boxer/Nada/July aren't anywhere near the skill level or Bisu/JD/Flash. The things you mentioned about them were all outstanding, like, a really, really, really long time ago (slight exception with Nada). They are all talented players who by will power can make and break through all challenges .Way to underestimate how significant this figures has been to the broodwar scene , they made full use of every unit's in broodwar and push it to the limit . Looking at how thing's have been going for Boxer and friends they aren't doing anything that is really revolutionary to the sc2 scene and even with their great experience in a RTS game can't do a thing . What can Flash do to make sc2 even better when you have already our pioneers who started and made the broodwar scene ? . Nothing I believe , Flash and Co will not make sc2 any better . Heh of course I can compare boxer to flash , boxer even won flash in a TvT , isn't that enough to say he is talented as flash ? . The game played 4 - 7 years ago and now is really different, even if boxer was able to take a game off flash, probably the chance to win in a box match is close to zero. If I created a time paradox and travel the current flash , into the time when Boxer was at his prime , You think Boxer wouldn't have taken down or even made the Game in a Box a little closer to winning ? .It's pretty moot point that you are saying , the fact is what Flash and Co is doing is already have been discovered a long time ago thanks to Nada,July ,Garimto and Boxer , without them experimenting and pushing every unit's to their limits . The scene wouldn't have become the way it is right now . Nope. Current Flash is better than previous Boxer. That is all. Here, let me try: If I created a time paradox and travel the current Marathon Runner World Record Holder , into the time when X Previous Record Holder was at his prime, You think X Previous Record Holder wouldn't have taken down or even made the Marathon Race a little closer to winning ? . I understand your point that at the time Boxer was innovative. Why do you assume I wasn't aware? However injecting him into the SC2 scene is simply not comparable to injecting Flash/JD/Bisu into the SC2 scene, TODAY, now. You're making a fallacious assumption so I'll just leave it at that if you still wish to disagree. To each his own...opinion Map's back than wouldn't be suitable for flash kind of play , boxer will triumph and win Flash , if Flash was actually to play those weird and quirky maps back than . Boxer creativity gave birth to all the strategy , terran's have been doing now day and even also credited to oov for being economical . I didn't assume if you aren't aware , I thought these are just basics thing a starcraft fan on tl.net should know . Fallacious or not I maybe wrong and I maybe right that Flash and Co will not dominate sc2 as you think they would and I am still going on the basis that nothing would change because of the game limitation sc2 is providing to the players right now . Give Boxer in sc2 a Marine and Medic team that can do as much as damage as it could in broodwar and survive as long as they could be micro and I will show you how sc2 is going to make people jaw's drop .
If I could I would post the image macro with the cats paw on the guys hand saying "Please Stop Posting", seriously Boxers "strategic plays" would have nothing on Flash's raw skill and ridiculous gamesense. Flash in his prime would drop 1/50 games to Boxer in his prime, probably to some silly cheese cuz boxer was pretty good at that.
On January 21 2012 01:05 AimlessAmoeba wrote:
I come in here hoping to catch a glimpse of which sc1 koreans are crossing over, and I fall into an argument over prime Boxer vs current Flash.
DERAIL'D!
Any word on who the people coming over are?
Most likely displaced progamers from the teams that disbanded.
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Saying top pro's like Bisu,Flash and JD wont change much close to anything if they moved to sc2 is really naive. I mean people who had little to none impact in the broodwar scene are the current builders of the sc2 scene. They are the people who dictate the game. They dominate everyone. They are the revolutionists. /Tester,FD | later Nestea,MC,MVP/
I dont really see the impact Boxer,NaDa and JulyZerg have in the game in terms of skill level. Thats because there is really none. They cant move the game forward anymore. Of course they will always be interesting and will always produce entartaining stuff but their done as long as competitiveness goes. And that really is the key to everything - the strongest players make the game what it is.
People like Boxer,NaDa and JulyZerg were top players in the broodwar scene but that was years ago. The three of them were among the first who swapped to sc2 because they knew they couldnt compete even with the worst pros in the broodwar scene anymore. Yet you start comparing them to the current top bw pros etc...its just wrong.
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On January 21 2012 00:37 Frail wrote:
Are there any new hints or anything regarding this?
I'd love to see'em
Hwanni spoke a bit about this on the IM stream this week and he seems convinced BW pro's will move over to SC2 at some point. Though I dont think he gave an ETA. I tend to believe the man being well-informed.
But yeah, time will tell how many and when they will move over. =)
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On January 21 2012 00:08 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 23:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:On January 20 2012 23:49 Sawamura wrote:On January 20 2012 23:35 Pure-SC2 wrote:On January 20 2012 23:17 iLoveKT wrote:
In my opinion, I dont think teams from BW except samsung are gonna follow suit to sc2. I have no knowledge about this coz I dont religiously follow sc2 but if it is true that sc2 isnt doing relatively well in Korea, why would they want to sponsor a team for that game. Sc2 is more popular outside korea so why would companies like KT, SKT, Woongjin, CJ, etc. ,who are based for the most part in Korea only, want to sponsor an sc2 team when they wont gain anything, specially advertising, from it. The possibility of them sponsoring a LoL (I heard LoL is getting big in Korea) team is bigger than them sponsoring an SC2 team, imo. Except for samsung, obviously because they are a global brand. But that's a reasonable short term view of things. As SC2 grows, the skill level, player base, fandom and everything else will grow with it until eventually there is a whole new generation who grew up with SC2. SC2 is still in its infancy, it's first (of two) expansions is not too far away, and it is the RTS of the future for the time being. In the short term (based on the hints that we are getting), there is going to be an influx of BW players moving over, and a new Korean SC2 league in place. This is going to change the whole landscape for Korean SC2, and will mean that the Korean companies you quoted will have every reason to sponsor an SC2 team. I've no idea what the time frame would be on this, as I'm no insider, but it's going to happen. And the more top level players the SC2 scene, the better the quality of games we are going to see. We're already seeing more and more amazing games, and the overall level of those at the top in SC2 is continuing to grow and it's a great thing. I for one am very excited about this and can't wait for the full details to come out. Sc2 receiving great strategist like Boxer , Mechanical genius Nada , God Of War July from the bw pool of talents could not make sc2 interesting as brood war did . How can my bonjwa Flash , Jaedong,Stork and Bisu is going to do anything more to the game when the game has it's own limitation to what the unit's can do ? . I do not doubt it may be the future game of rts , but that doesn't mean it will be , looking at how thing's are going maybe more casual oriented games like Dota 2 and Lol will be the more suitable candidate to be a popular RTS in the future. Are you really comparing Boxer, Nada, and July to Bisu, JD, Flash???? That's soooo wrong. Boxer/Nada/July aren't anywhere near the skill level or Bisu/JD/Flash. The things you mentioned about them were all outstanding, like, a really, really, really long time ago (slight exception with Nada). They are all talented players who by will power can make and break through all challenges .Way to underestimate how significant this figures has been to the broodwar scene , they made full use of every unit's in broodwar and push it to the limit . Looking at how thing's have been going for Boxer and friends they aren't doing anything that is really revolutionary to the sc2 scene and even with their great experience in a RTS game can't do a thing . What can Flash do to make sc2 even better when you have already our pioneers who started and made the broodwar scene ? . Nothing I believe , Flash and Co will not make sc2 any better . Heh of course I can compare boxer to flash , boxer even won flash in a TvT , isn't that enough to say he is talented as flash ? .
Boxer has been a tactical genius in SC2. Crazy reaper play? Massive bio drop play onto tanks? Massive bio drop play onto tanks with vikings in support? One of the first exponents of Helions?
Boxer has been amazing, and still has plenty more to offer.
Which means that any top top player would have a huge amount to bring to SC2. There are so many areas of SC2 high level play that can be improved and innovated.
At the same time, I've seen from a lot of the BW old timers that what the current S-Class BW pro's have done is take the refinement of their level of play to a whole new level, not necessarily re-inventing match-ups or defining new tactics. Remember how long BW has been around, and remember that SC2 is a comparative infant.
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I'm sorry, BoxeR in his prime is not at the same level of Flash in his prime. The problem is that you guys are comparing apples and oranges. Other than strategic innovation (and this is actually an arguable point, Flash changed TvP) Flash is a better player all around. He has higher APM, better micro, and better macro- and his builds have ten years of metagamed polishing.
Every single cheese the old BoxeR brings to the TvTable Flash has seen before- they've been created, overdone and then subsequently figured out for a fucking decade of gameplay.
Seriously, these types of conversations are ridiculous. I don't see the desire to compare the two, but ultimately, Flash is the best player to have ever played Brood War. He is not the most influential by any stretch of the imagination (BoxeR probably is) but in overall talent, he is.
To those that do not understand the frivolous nature of this conversation, I will explain to you with an example:
There was a time when nobody knew about stacking Mutalisks with overlords. This micro tactic did not exist. After it was discovered, anyone who engaged in against a zerg that still did not know this tactic, after normally facing opponents who did, would notice an obvious advantage in their favour vs these weaker enemies. Their opponent would not be playing at the highest of level that they've become accustomed to playing at. Ultimately, little advantages of this nature build up, and they win the game.
In literally every technical facet of the game Boxer would be playing with this previously described disadvantage. There's just no way he'd beat a high level Flash.
I am a massive BoxeR fan, and have no strong feelings for Flash one way or the other. This all is just pretty obvious. This is a mirror match, which takes away any racial variation.
tl:dr every thing BoxeR made his name doing is part of every 'this-generation' S-class Terran's standard mechanics.
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I think the only reasonable way to figure this out would be to have Boxer Prime and Flash Prime do battle in the most balanced map series in BW history....
DBZ Madness
+ Show Spoiler +HOW DOES A MAP GET WORSE WITH EVERY ITERATION! And why would I get my hopes up every time..."this time its gotta be balanced". First level...fine....second level...fine.....[40 minutes later].....8th level...USSJ9 Goku, Jim Raynor, 255+1 armor, 19999+1 attack...and stim...DAMMIT.
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So much silly nonsense. The game was still young in Boxer's days....you didn't really need all three (macro, micro and strat) to win, where as today, unless you get lucky, you need all three.
Boxer was able to win with only micro and strats, he didn't need macro to win, so why would he focus/learn to do that? Flash on the other hand...it is like a necessity in the scene in the last few years.
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I predict Lomo and Perfectman...hmm... maybe some from MBC too?
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EPT
