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We all know 2011 was a record breaking year for eSports but how much money was actually paid out in prizes? Over 5 million USD from the top 3 best paying eSports of 2011.
#1 StarCraft 2 – $2,525,775
The best paying eSport of 2011 goes to StarCraft 2 with over 2.5 million USD in tournaments an average of $200,000 prizes per month. This is 1.7 million more in prizes than the 2010 total of $800,000.
In 2011 StarCraft 2 not only had the largest prize pool but 130 tournaments each with a $1,000 or more prize pool in 2011. The year before StarCraft 2 had only about 30 tournaments with $1,000 or more in prizes an increase of 100 tournaments.
What makes StarCraft so special is that Blizzard does not sponsor many of these events. StarCraft 2 has past the two million dollar threshold because of fans. With live streaming individual gamers, teams and small organizations have the chance to appear on the world stage. With such easy access to content fans are now able to support pro gamers like never before.
With the success of smaller organizations larger organizers are now getting in on the action. Across America you have the MLG, IPL, NASL and ESEA. In Europe you have the ESL, DreamHack and INSOMNIA . In Asia there is the GSL.
Now that every major online competitive title is being released with a 1,000,000 or more prize pool (Call of Duty XP, DotA 2 International and soon Battlefield 3 World Conquest) StarCraft 2 has more competition than ever.
StarCraft 2, it missed being the first tournament to have a $1,000,000 prize pool but with Blizzard and their near endless funds maybe it will be the first game to host a $10,000,0000 prize pool in 2012. Heading into 2012 and regardless of what happens next StarCraft 2 has made esports mainstream.
#2 DotA 2 – $1,698,500
The second best paying eSport of 2011 is DotA 2 with over 1,600,000 USD in prizes. DotA 2 also held the largest single prize tournament of 1.6 million - 'The International'.
The one tournament may account for the majority of 2011 prizes but this game is still in Beta. What is remarkable is the number of organizations starting up or adding DotA 2 tournaments. We are certain DotA 2 will compete with StarCraft 2 tournament for tournament and dollar for dollar once released. DotA 2 is a hit before launch, StarCraft 2 better watch out because this is the competition we mentioned.
#3 Call of Duty MW3 - $1,010,000
Played on the XBOX360 CoD MW3 has done the impossible. It has created an eSport franchise that can be both short lived and popular with pro gamers. Although we may be talking about Call of Duty MW4 in 2012 if it is released with million or more prize pool who cares! Yes, this is a money grab. Instead of releasing updates they have you buy a new game. The answer they thought of was to give some of the money back in the form of tournaments. This concept may not be popular with everyone but it has shown to be successful in 2011 bringing many top gamers to compete in the million dollar Call of Duty XP tournament.
As mentioned above we don't know how long this eSport will last until replaced by a new version or a competing title (Battlefield 3) and it has not shown many self start tournaments.
Thanks for reading the 2011 eSport year end review.
For those interested on how we calculated the year end totals they are individual tournaments manually researched by us - PGT. Each of these tournaments have their own page with the prize pool and other related information including the source. These tournament pages can be found on our site www.progamingtours.net
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good quick writeup, thank you for that :D
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excellent information. I wonder how much will made this year?
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I'm surprised that LoL isn't either 2nd or third. I don't follow their scene at all but I assume it is really popular, and thus has large prize pools too.
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Canada1637 Posts
Wow, interesting read.
I think it says a lot about the "health" of the SC2 scene that this isn't dominated by like... one major million dollar + win, however DotA2 is just in beta to begin with.
2012 gonna be a helluva year  .
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LoL or something has a 5 millions tourney am I right?
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Where is League of Legends and Counter-Strike ?
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On January 06 2012 08:09 tuho12345 wrote:
LoL or something has a 5 millions tourney am I right?
Yes, hasn't been paid out yet in 2011 though, prob be handed out to the winner this year.
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MW3 was only out for a couple of months. Same with DotA 2
impressive numbers from all the games regardless
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Basically Dota 2 and MW3 are in there only because of 1 promotion tournament with a huge prize pool slammed ontop.
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i thought bw and lol would be on the list. anyone know the numbers for these games?
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League of Legends hasn't been popular since the beginning of 2011. They've really been picking up speed about midway through, and 2012 will be the telling year for them.
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On January 06 2012 08:08 Arterial wrote:
I'm surprised that LoL isn't either 2nd or third. I don't follow their scene at all but I assume it is really popular, and thus has large prize pools too.
League of Legends is incredibly popular but was held back in 2011 because there was no observer mode severely limiting broadcasting abilities of organizers. What LoL used in 2011 was a Spectator Client that caused delays at events including MLG:
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/league-of-legends-stream-offline-because-of-spectator-client-problems
Now with their new observer mode being released and Riot's $5,000,000 across season 2 to promote their game as an eSport LoL may very well beat StarCraft 2 in 2012 for best paying eSport.
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On January 06 2012 08:15 Trevor.PGT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 08:08 Arterial wrote:
I'm surprised that LoL isn't either 2nd or third. I don't follow their scene at all but I assume it is really popular, and thus has large prize pools too. League of Legends is incredibly popular but was held back in 2011 because there was no observer mode severely limiting broadcasting abilities of organizers. What LoL used in 2011 was a Spectator Client that caused delays at events including MLG: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/league-of-legends-stream-offline-because-of-spectator-client-problemsNow with their new observer mode being released and Riot's $5,000,000 across season 2 to promote their game as an eSport LoL may very well beat StarCraft 2 in 2012 for best paying eSport.
yeah im pretty confident Sc2 will get dwarfed. 5 million is just a lot of money lol
On January 06 2012 08:12 Diglett wrote:
i thought bw and lol would be on the list. anyone know the numbers for these games?
I really love BW but to tell you the truth in 2011, The only prize money was a couple thousands from the ISL, a few hundred bucks here and there and in Korea, ~32k ish prize money for a few OSLs (I think only 2 this year and the fall of MSL certainly doesnt help) and Proleague (I think Proleague is 100K won for a team. idk). Not too great :l
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1,000,000 out of the 1.6 of dota was from that 1 mil tournament, so not much from others when you think about it. Although they did start much later than starcraft, so i dont know....
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I think the big thing to not is that there is more sponsorship money in Starcraft 2 it seems. So many people backing SC2 and that is much bigger then prize money in itself in my oppinion.
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LoL's season 2 is 5 million in prizes.. not actual money.
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lol dota2 had one tournament basically. Pretty joke esport at the moment.
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On January 06 2012 08:12 solidbebe wrote:
Basically Dota 2 and MW3 are in there only because of 1 promotion tournament with a huge prize pool slammed ontop.
This is true for MW3 more than DotA 2.
DotA 2 is showing huge support from organizers similar to StarCraft 2. Although it is only $98,500 it is made up of many well known eSport organizers and many new organizers such as JoinDotA.
DotA 2 while still in Beta is showing that, once released, will compete tournament for tournament with StarCraft 2.
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lol one tournament making up almost everything for dota2 x3.Guess dota2 benefits hugely from LoL that brought so many mmpog people to these sort of games, otherwise only dota players would play and watch it x3. But i am not convinced that dota2 can really make it big without having its hand hold every year by the creator. Still interesting bit of information.
The starcraft2 had a interesting start though, making bw more popular again when it was announced and using that as a starting point.
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And LoL tournament streams that have worked always collected an insane viewer count, like dreamhack was it 120k or even 200k? Other bigger tourneys which didn't suffer too bad from technical issues with the spectator client (or lack of it) have got close to 100k. Being a free to play game it gets quite the playerbase and following.
The pro streamers also gather big crowds, 10-20k for hotshott is common and when he is not online someone else will get that 10k and a few will get 5-7k viewers.
at this moment of writing, TSM and SK are scrimming and streamer from TSM's got 20k viewers and streamer from SK 10k. Add in the other streamers from both teams and there's over 40k people watching these teams just practice.
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On January 06 2012 08:10 Severus_ wrote:
Where is League of Legends and Counter-Strike ?
Counter Strike 1.6 is a very steady game, it has about $500,000 in prizes over 2011. This is about the same as in 2010.
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That $2.5m number is actually wrong.
I did a rough estimate from the Liquipedia list of major competitions, came out at at least $3m USD.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments
This list, with 3 missing, comes to $2.43m, then there are thousands from the less major events, and then there are the minor events, and then there are the events not listed, like possibly some Taiwanese and Chinese stuff for starters.
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Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL.
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A more telling figure is independently organized event prize money (money other than that which is put up by the publishing company). That number would be more representative of the strength of the game as a business...and thus a legitimate 'sport'.
I don't think starcraft has much to worry about in that category.
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On January 06 2012 08:17 firehand101 wrote:
1,000,000 out of the 1.6 of dota was from that 1 mil tournament, so not much from others when you think about it. Although they did start much later than starcraft, so i dont know....
well. its actually a 1.6mill prizepool tourney. 1mil for 1st place. balance for 2nd 3rd and 4th.
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On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL.
You are aware of which order DoTA and LoL came out in right?
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On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL.
Lol, someone doesn't know anything about MOBA's
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On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL.
LOL
Anyways, just wait till the chinese start picking up dota 2. I bet it'll become huge. I like LoL, but dota is a better esport in terms of mobas.
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I don't really care whose the biggest, more that all the games get big. Whether that be DotA2, LoL, BF3, or even fighting games (yeah right they don't want money) all are good for ESPORTS! I'm hoping for the best!
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On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL.
You realize taht LoL is a DOTA clone right?....
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On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL.
Fascinating, do continue
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Haha a 10,000,000 dollar blizz tournament is a bit of a stretch  , I'd be fine with just a 1,000,000 sc2 tournament - after all, the other games play as teams so that huge sum is a lot less meaningful for the individual players.
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Calling Dota2 and CoD eSports just because they had one tournament with big price pool sponsored by develpoer, LOL.
And no, Blizzard wont host any tournament with 10M price pool. They dont need to do that in order to be successful.
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On January 06 2012 08:22 Lonyo wrote:That $2.5m number is actually wrong. I did a rough estimate from the Liquipedia list of major competitions, came out at at least $3m USD. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_TournamentsThis list, with 3 missing, comes to $2.43m, then there are thousands from the less major events, and then there are the minor events, and then there are the events not listed, like possibly some Taiwanese and Chinese stuff for starters.
The number provided is the number we (PGT) can prove with individually researched tournaments. We focus on tournaments with $1,000 and more in prize pool. These tournaments cover the majority of the prizes with daily/weekly/monthly StarCraft 2 tournaments paying from our rough estimations $60,000 over the year 2011.
Our number is what we can prove and a minimum amount of prizes for StarCraft 2 over 2011. This minimum proved amount is still much larger than other eSports for 2011.
One feature we are adding to the site over 2012 is to allow anyone to add tournaments to our database that will then be manually approved. This will allow us to keep track of much smaller prize pool tournaments ranging $100-1,000. But again, the vast majority of prizes are paid out with $1,000 or more prize pool events.
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thanks hope SC2 will still be first in 2012 :D
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i dont really consider LOL or DOTA 2 as truely competing esports, i mean sure as a player all that matters is the prize money and you dont care where it comes from.
But honestly if it was not for a huge amount of spoon feeding by the producers of LOL and DOTA 2 they would not be anywhere close, they are basically cheating .
Blizzard has the most money of them all, if blizzard decided to announce 7 million in prize money for the uppcoming years in sc2 expansions, That would dwarf LOL and DOTA 2, But they dont believe that its the right way, because its a "fake" esport scene.
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I think Dota & Dota 2 should be considered the same thing because its the same damn games. Its like saying Half Life, and Half Life Source are different games. They aren't.
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What about salaries?
Ancilliary income?
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On January 06 2012 08:39 DrGreen wrote:
Calling Dota2 and CoD eSports just because they had one tournament with big price pool sponsored by develpoer, LOL.
And no, Blizzard wont host any tournament with 10M price pool. They dont need to do that in order to be successful.
Well the simple example is the $5,000,000 USD with Riot's season 2. However eSports is picking up extremely fast.
Microsoft and Sony competed head to head.
Sony, sponsored MLG's Black OPS tournaments (Sony Excursion)
Microsoft, Call of Duty XP the million dollar XBOX 360 tournament of MW3.
10,000,000 is not an exaggerated number. It is a very realistic number. Now that gamers are more aware of eSports companies are going to try to win over gamers with larger prize pools.
Call of Duty MW3 - 1,000,000 USD
DotA 2 - 1,600,000 USD
Upcoming
Battlefield 3 - 1,600,000 USD
So yes, other publishers/developers are spending money on developing eSports so does Blizzard. Other companies however are starting to up the ante and Blizzard if they continue at the same pace as they did in 2011 will fall behind in 2012.
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Battlefield 3 will never become an esport.
It is based on teams of 32 players each side. No company would buy this many flight tickets.
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On January 06 2012 08:43 Mafs wrote:
I think Dota & Dota 2 should be considered the same thing because its the same damn games. Its like saying Half Life, and Half Life Source are different games. They aren't.
Sc1 and sc2?
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The Sc2 Community is too beastly, i hope it continues to put some distance between 2nd place in prize pools 
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On January 06 2012 08:45 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 08:43 Mafs wrote:
I think Dota & Dota 2 should be considered the same thing because its the same damn games. Its like saying Half Life, and Half Life Source are different games. They aren't. Sc1 and sc2?
zzz they are different games. DotA and DotA 2 are borderline mimic
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On January 06 2012 08:45 Trevor.PGT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 08:39 DrGreen wrote:
Calling Dota2 and CoD eSports just because they had one tournament with big price pool sponsored by develpoer, LOL.
And no, Blizzard wont host any tournament with 10M price pool. They dont need to do that in order to be successful. Well the simple example is the $5,000,000 USD with Riot's season 2. However eSports is picking up extremely fast. Microsoft and Sony competed head to head. Sony, sponsored MLG's Black OPS tournaments (Sony Excursion) Microsoft, Call of Duty XP the million dollar XBOX 360 tournament of MW3. 10,000,000 is not an exaggerated number. It is a very realistic number. Now that gamers are more aware of eSports companies are going to try to win over gamers with larger prize pools. Call of Duty MW3 - 1,000,000 USD DotA 2 - 1,600,000 USD Upcoming Battlefield 3 - 1,600,000 USD So yes, other publishers/developers are spending money on developing eSports so does Blizzard. Other companies however are starting to up the ante and Blizzard if they continue at the same pace as they did in 2011 will fall behind in 2012.
woah I didn't know this! So happy for e-sports! And yes blizzard needs to support SC2 way more (like start with LAN...).
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On January 06 2012 08:47 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 08:45 Linwelin wrote:On January 06 2012 08:43 Mafs wrote:
I think Dota & Dota 2 should be considered the same thing because its the same damn games. Its like saying Half Life, and Half Life Source are different games. They aren't. Sc1 and sc2? zzz they are different games. DotA and DotA 2 are borderline mimic
I'm no DotA expert but from what I've seen DotA 2 is DotA 1 with new graphics and some new stuff added (Heroes/items etc)
Same thing can be said for sc2
Please correct me if i'm wrong
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gogoo long live sc2 !!!! most frendly and helpful comunity in ESPORTS !!! WooOooOooHooOooOoOoOOooooo
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Lookin' good. I can honestly see Sc2 competing with LoL next year. 5mil is a lot, but Sc2 is getting bigger and more competetive, it's grown so much this year. Until LoL has its issues worked out it's just going to be a game with tons of money behind it and it'll be phased out over time. Here's hoping for a good year for both games. =)
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United States7481 Posts
On January 06 2012 08:49 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 08:47 Kenpachi wrote:On January 06 2012 08:45 Linwelin wrote:On January 06 2012 08:43 Mafs wrote:
I think Dota & Dota 2 should be considered the same thing because its the same damn games. Its like saying Half Life, and Half Life Source are different games. They aren't. Sc1 and sc2? zzz they are different games. DotA and DotA 2 are borderline mimic I'm no DotA expert but from what I've seen DotA 2 is DotA 1 with new graphics and some new stuff added (Heroes/items etc) Same thing can be said for sc2 Please correct me if i'm wrong
this is incorrect, dota2 is a direct port.
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On January 06 2012 08:54 Antoine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 08:49 Linwelin wrote:On January 06 2012 08:47 Kenpachi wrote:On January 06 2012 08:45 Linwelin wrote:On January 06 2012 08:43 Mafs wrote:
I think Dota & Dota 2 should be considered the same thing because its the same damn games. Its like saying Half Life, and Half Life Source are different games. They aren't. Sc1 and sc2? zzz they are different games. DotA and DotA 2 are borderline mimic I'm no DotA expert but from what I've seen DotA 2 is DotA 1 with new graphics and some new stuff added (Heroes/items etc) Same thing can be said for sc2 Please correct me if i'm wrong this is incorrect, dota2 is a direct port.
My bad then
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On January 06 2012 08:20 m3rciless wrote:
lol dota2 had one tournament basically. Pretty joke esport at the moment.
Now, let's not knock DOTA like that. NFL is the only major league of American football, but that does not make it a joke either. I am a SC2 fan first, but killing off the other games doesnt necessarily help SC2 pro scene either.
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On January 06 2012 08:49 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 08:47 Kenpachi wrote:On January 06 2012 08:45 Linwelin wrote:On January 06 2012 08:43 Mafs wrote:
I think Dota & Dota 2 should be considered the same thing because its the same damn games. Its like saying Half Life, and Half Life Source are different games. They aren't. Sc1 and sc2? zzz they are different games. DotA and DotA 2 are borderline mimic I'm no DotA expert but from what I've seen DotA 2 is DotA 1 with new graphics and some new stuff added (Heroes/items etc) Same thing can be said for sc2 Please correct me if i'm wrong
DotA 2 was created to be a stand alone version of DotA. DotA was a WarCaft 3 Frozen Throne custom map based on a custom StarCraft map Areon of Strife.
DotA 2 will of course have some new content but they are purposely making it similar to DotA. They mentioned this when they launched their DotA 2 tournament 'The International'
The DotA 2 tournament was made up of DotA teams to show gamers that the transition will be simple and the game play would remain same while including new and useful features.
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I'm curious how these compare to the SCI payouts still going on in Korea. Counting saleries, Brood War proscene still has to be the highest, right?
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On January 06 2012 08:49 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 08:47 Kenpachi wrote:On January 06 2012 08:45 Linwelin wrote:On January 06 2012 08:43 Mafs wrote:
I think Dota & Dota 2 should be considered the same thing because its the same damn games. Its like saying Half Life, and Half Life Source are different games. They aren't. Sc1 and sc2? zzz they are different games. DotA and DotA 2 are borderline mimic I'm no DotA expert but from what I've seen DotA 2 is DotA 1 with new graphics and some new stuff added (Heroes/items etc) Same thing can be said for sc2 Please correct me if i'm wrong
DotA2, by carbon copying the original, just allows a more friendly engine for DotA gameplay. Strategies remain the same. Some aspects do change because it is a new engine but in BW -> SC2, everything is changed. units are removed, Engine changes entirely, strategies are vastly different, different style of game play, a new game essentially... People from BW were only ahead of the crowd because of superior mechanics and game sense..
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On January 06 2012 08:39 Trevor.PGT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 08:22 Lonyo wrote:That $2.5m number is actually wrong. I did a rough estimate from the Liquipedia list of major competitions, came out at at least $3m USD. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_TournamentsThis list, with 3 missing, comes to $2.43m, then there are thousands from the less major events, and then there are the minor events, and then there are the events not listed, like possibly some Taiwanese and Chinese stuff for starters. The number provided is the number we (PGT) can prove with individually researched tournaments. We focus on tournaments with $1,000 and more in prize pool. These tournaments cover the majority of the prizes with daily/weekly/monthly StarCraft 2 tournaments paying from our rough estimations $60,000 over the year 2011. Our number is what we can prove and a minimum amount of prizes for StarCraft 2 over 2011. This minimum proved amount is still much larger than other eSports for 2011. One feature we are adding to the site over 2012 is to allow anyone to add tournaments to our database that will then be manually approved. This will allow us to keep track of much smaller prize pool tournaments ranging $100-1,000. But again, the vast majority of prizes are paid out with $1,000 or more prize pool events.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Team_Tournaments
These 3 pages have a listing of most of the major tournaments of 2011, along with prize money per tournament.
Many have already converted prize values into USD, some have not.
Just by going through those three lists, which link to tournament results pages, which then link to individual competition pages, you can "research" these tournaments, and quickly view the prize pools if you don't trust the summaries
By adding up the total values on these pages, and converting any non-USD values to USD values, based on the worst exchange rate of the past 12 months in order to ensure a worst case figure, and assuming that pre-converted prize values are broadly accurate, the total prize money from those three lists of tournaments alone, for 2011 only, comes to over $3m USD.
Not sure how you go about "proving" the prize money of tournaments, especially since you probably still included tournaments which haven't paid out (there is a thread about this on TL).
In theory it's a nice idea to do such calculations, to a point, but your numbers don't seem to be well sourced for SC2. I have no idea about the other scenes personally.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0Asv3XungDSzjdGZSVUVHOWw0RG9nSzViekhhVEVtdGc&single=true&gid=0&output=html
Very raw data.
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Russian Federation396 Posts
hmm i think there was a tournament for LoL that was ~2million prize pool...
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Lonyo In theory it's a nice idea to do such calculations, to a point, but your numbers don't seem to be well sourced for SC2. I have no idea about the other scenes personally.]
To clarify the numbers are the additions of individual tournaments researched by us, PGT. Each of these tournaments has its own static page with its own source.
You are welcome to go through each tournament and confirm our sources and we will be happy to correct any tournament you find with incorrect information. We go right to the source for each tournament that makes up the total prize pool numbers in this post.
Yes, sometimes the source is Team Liquid. TL is the best website for anything StarCraft 2 and many organizers announce their tournaments on this site making TL the source of the tournament.
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Regardless, those LoL prizepools are split amongst a team of five people, while SC2 you have a sole player getting the majority of the money from winning (mvp, mc).
The highest skilled games' players are still the highest paid.
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On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL.
I so hope this is a troll
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These numbers are very funny considering that 1.6 million out of the 1.69 million $ for dota 2 was in ONE single tournament, and if I'm not mistaken there was a 1 million $ tournament for MW3 as well.
What does this mean? It means that the SC2 competitive scene is miles, no, light years ahead of these games. They've basically had 1-2 tournaments each (Both sponsored by developers), while SC2 has had what, 130 tournaments above 1k$ ?
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On January 06 2012 08:20 m3rciless wrote:
lol dota2 had one tournament basically. Pretty joke esport at the moment.
it's in beta....sc2 didn't have this in it's beta. would you have considered sc2 a "joke esport" as well? =/
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On January 06 2012 09:18 THM wrote:
These numbers are very funny considering that 1.6 million out of the 1.69 million $ for dota 2 was in ONE single tournament, and if I'm not mistaken there was a 1 million $ tournament for MW3 as well.
What does this mean? It means that the SC2 competitive scene is miles, no, light years ahead of these games. They've basically had 1-2 tournaments each (Both sponsored by developers), while SC2 has had what, 130 tournaments above 1k$ ?
Hey! Acording to PGT that means they're THE BEST ESPORTS OF 2011.
This whole tread seems like an advertisement of their site.
On January 06 2012 09:20 Bullet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 08:20 m3rciless wrote:
lol dota2 had one tournament basically. Pretty joke esport at the moment. it's in beta....sc2 didn't have this in it's beta. would you have considered sc2 a "joke esport" as well? =/
No, professional esports game should have major competitions in its beta stages. It doesnt make any sense from competitive point of view. It's just advertisement of the game.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL.
-__-
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On January 06 2012 08:44 Zona wrote:
What about salaries?
Ancilliary income?
I'm with this guy. These numbers seem a bit lower than I was expecting. I'm surprised Brood War isn't on this list, as well. I guess the big reward for being a pro gamer in Korea is the salary and team-paid bonuses for performance, and not actually the prize pools for the constant tournaments themselves?
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On January 06 2012 08:44 Zona wrote:
What about salaries?
Ancilliary income?
We don't know this stuff well enough. In Broodwar, we do know the estimate of top players salaries, but not in Starcraft II.
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On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL.
Oh god, that just hurts to read.
It honestly makes me sad that LoL is even mentioned in an E-sports environment.
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On January 06 2012 08:17 firehand101 wrote:
1,000,000 out of the 1.6 of dota was from that 1 mil tournament, so not much from others when you think about it. Although they did start much later than starcraft, so i dont know....
Nah it was 1.6 Mil. 1mil to the winner then all the other teams got paid too.
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United States1518 Posts
Hopefully SC2 can double it's prize give out for 2012, otherwise it will be overtaken by LoL, and possibly DoTA2
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On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL.
this is straight up the dumbest thing I've ever read
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thing with dota is it was just 1 tourney...
a good game for esports has MANY MANY opportunities. so just because dota 2 had #2 most money, doesnt mean its #2 best game for esports!
On January 06 2012 09:51 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL. this is straight up the dumbest thing I've ever read
How is that dumb? He's pretty much exactly right. THere is no arguing that SC2 takes more skill to play... we know this. Why is that a bad thing for Dota? It's not. It's different. SC2 doesnt have a rival. Dota has LOL and HON to compete with.
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Sc2 and DotA aren't really the same market. Not sure why people are comparing the two. Much like there's no point comparing Sc2 and CoD (they have totally separate stages at MLGs, too) there's not much point in comparing these "MOBAs" (dumbest name ever, by the way) to RTS or FPS games.
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On January 06 2012 09:52 PhiliBiRD wrote:thing with dota is it was just 1 tourney... a good game for esports has MANY MANY opportunities. so just because dota 2 had #2 most money, doesnt mean its #2 best game for esports! Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 09:51 Ruscour wrote:On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL. this is straight up the dumbest thing I've ever read How is that dumb? He's pretty much exactly right. THere is no arguing that SC2 takes more skill to play... we know this. Why is that a bad thing for Dota? It's not. It's different. SC2 doesnt have a rival. Dota has LOL and HON to compete with.
It's dumb because DOTA came first by a longshot and LoL is a mirror of DOTA, if anything.
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Being a MOBA player (hon/dota/dota2/lol) I can't help but cringe when I see so much support being given to LoL.
LoL is such a terrible competitive game, it's kind of a shame to see it grow as a legitimate esport (may be a dick thing to say but idc). FPS/other MOBA games require so much more skill than LoL, it's seriously the most water downed, simplest MOBA out there yet the most popular. I don't hate LoL, in fact, out of every MOBA it probably has the best CASUAL gameplay experience, I just dislike the fact that it's taken seriously as a competitive game.
With that being said, BW/SC2 are by far the most competitive games and should remain on top and I hope the prize money for 2012 properly reflects that.
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On January 06 2012 10:08 dekarp wrote:
Being a MOBA player (hon/dota/dota2/lol) I can't help but cringe when I see so much support being given to LoL.
LoL is such a terrible competitive game, it's kind of a shame to see it grow as a legitimate esport (may be a dick thing to say but idc). FPS/other MOBA games require so much more skill than LoL, it's seriously the most water downed, simplest MOBA out there yet the most popular. I don't hate LoL, in fact, out of every MOBA it probably has the best CASUAL gameplay experience, I just dislike the fact that it's taken seriously as a competitive game.
With that being said, BW/SC2 are by far the most competitive games and should remain on top and I hope the prize money for 2012 properly reflects that.
Actually, League of Legends with its easy to pick up game play has attracted many new gamers to the MOBA / ARTS (Action Real Time Strategy) Genre. Also by being both free and easy to learn LoL is becoming incredibly popular with many player streams such as HotshotGG getting as much and often more viewers than many top StarCraft 2 player's live streams.
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On January 06 2012 10:13 Trevor.PGT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 10:08 dekarp wrote:
Being a MOBA player (hon/dota/dota2/lol) I can't help but cringe when I see so much support being given to LoL.
LoL is such a terrible competitive game, it's kind of a shame to see it grow as a legitimate esport (may be a dick thing to say but idc). FPS/other MOBA games require so much more skill than LoL, it's seriously the most water downed, simplest MOBA out there yet the most popular. I don't hate LoL, in fact, out of every MOBA it probably has the best CASUAL gameplay experience, I just dislike the fact that it's taken seriously as a competitive game.
With that being said, BW/SC2 are by far the most competitive games and should remain on top and I hope the prize money for 2012 properly reflects that. Actually, League of Legends with its easy to pick up game play has attracted many new gamers to the MOBA / ARTS (Action Real Time Strategy) Genre. Also by being both free and easy to learn LoL is becoming incredibly popular with many player streams such as HotshotGG getting as much and often more viewers than many top StarCraft 2 player's live streams.
Did you even read what I said or did you just see "LoL... terrible"?
I play it with RL friends sometimes, I don't dislike the actual game, I just think it's far too easy/simple to be considered an esport, or at least an esport that garners so much attention.
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How has this devolved into people just bashing on other games? The thing about dota2 is, yes most of the money was in that one tournament but did you see the stream numbers for it? I can try and find the announcement but the viewer numbers for that tournament alone were insane, same with LoL, you may bash it but it draws in hundreds of thousands of viewers.
This is all GOOD news no matter what game it is, so can people please not bash on other games/scenes, or run around shouting about how much better sc2 is because it has more overall prize money.
Edit: http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/The_International#Coverage
The wiki page said here that The International had over 1.5 million CONCURRENT viewers for the opening rounds alone, with a large chunk of viewers coming from china. This shows that you can't just write off dota2 as a one tournament wonder that will only see success thanks to valve throwing money at it, it has the potential to grow just like sc2 does. Again this can only be a good thing in my eyes.
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On January 06 2012 08:44 Zona wrote:
What about salaries?
Ancilliary income?
same thing I was thinking. the total amount paid from tournaments means nothing.
LoL will have their 5 million dollars tournament and that's it, the players don't get money from salaries like in BW and SC2.
BW still has by far the best payment in ESPORTS
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dekarp:
just dislike the fact that it's taken seriously as a competitive game.
Did you even read what I said or did you just see "LoL... terrible"?
I was trying to explain why it is more than just a casual game. The simplicity of LoL has shown to be great! The competitive aspect may seem lacking but this is mainly because the lack of experienced players. Once LoL players have played for months and years 8 and more hours a day it will bring a higher level of competition to LoL.
Simplicity does not mean a game is lacking in competition. Competition is a contest between individuals, more individuals leads to an increased level of competition.
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I think the problem with LoL is that, compared to DotA, it's laughably easy.
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Lets keep in mind that COD and MOBA's have to split their money 5 or more ways. Not saying that it takes anything away from the amount of money given out, just sayin. The thing that i am interested in is LoL coming out in korea with commercials featuring Nada. I would find it really amusing if Koreans came in and swooped up all of this 5 million dollar purse riot is gonna throw out for the next season.
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I dont think we should be using prize handout as a measure of the strength of an esport. Relying on prize money for the players to make a living is a very poor way to build an esport. Whats important it player salaries, and where that money is coming from (i.e for DotA and LoL the money comes from the developer, there have also been a few SC2 tournaments that blizzard has payed for).
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only mw3 money was from the 1mill tourney unless u want to count only 10k from others which is pretty fucking low
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On January 06 2012 10:37 Snorkle wrote:
Lets keep in mind that COD and MOBA's have to split their money 5 or more ways. Not saying that it takes anything away from the amount of money given out, just sayin. The thing that i am interested in is LoL coming out in korea with commercials featuring Nada. I would find it really amusing if Koreans came in and swooped up all of this 5 million dollar purse riot is gonna throw out for the next season.
Korea has had little success in DotA. But hey ST has a proteam.
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On January 06 2012 10:30 Trevor.PGT wrote:dekarp: I was trying to explain why it is more than just a casual game. The simplicity of LoL has shown to be great! The competitive aspect may seem lacking but this is mainly because the lack of experienced players. Once LoL players have played for months and years 8 and more hours a day it will bring a higher level of competition to LoL. Simplicity does not mean a game is lacking in competition. Competition is a contest between individuals, more individuals leads to an increased level of competition.
Just no, it has nothing to do with experience. LoL has been out longer than Starcraft 2 btw...
Yeah, its simplicity is great because it appeals to so many people, which is fine. Do you see me saying anything negative about a game like Banjo-Kazooie? Nothing wrong with being popular and easily accessible, as long as Rare doesn't fund some tournament series for millions of dollars to see who can collect all the puzzle pieces the fastest to promote it's esports legitimacy, whatever.
May be a somewhat poor analogy, but I think you get the point.
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surprised quite a bit actually. I had expected other games to be higher like LoL and CS and possibly even some console stuff like fifa etc. I don't follow other scenes at all besides starcraft so I don't have a clue.
It would be better to have a list without money provided by the developer itself as that doesn't really show the amount of sponsorship the scene attracts. Riot or blizzard or whatever providing money for their own game tournaments is just another way of advertising, has nothing to do with the actual size of the esport though it can and probably will fuel it ofcourse.
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On January 06 2012 10:26 Calyeah wrote:How has this devolved into people just bashing on other games? The thing about dota2 is, yes most of the money was in that one tournament but did you see the stream numbers for it? I can try and find the announcement but the viewer numbers for that tournament alone were insane, same with LoL, you may bash it but it draws in hundreds of thousands of viewers. This is all GOOD news no matter what game it is, so can people please not bash on other games/scenes, or run around shouting about how much better sc2 is because it has more overall prize money. Edit: http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/The_International#Coverage The wiki page said here that The International had over 1.5 million CONCURRENT viewers for the opening rounds alone, with a large chunk of viewers coming from china. This shows that you can't just write off dota2 as a one tournament wonder that will only see success thanks to valve throwing money at it, it has the potential to grow just like sc2 does. Again this can only be a good thing in my eyes.
many people including myself only tuned into it to see "how the game looks" as it was the first glimpse we got . There stream views after that from other tournaments have been pathetic.
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Starcraft seems to be more difficult overall than both of those games.
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On January 06 2012 10:26 Calyeah wrote:http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/The_International#Coverage The wiki page said here that The International had over 1.5 million CONCURRENT viewers for the opening rounds alone, with a large chunk of viewers coming from china. This shows that you can't just write off dota2 as a one tournament wonder that will only see success
To be fair, The International was essentially one big marketing stunt by Valve. Sure, Day 1 had 1.5 concurrent viewers, but I'm guessing that's because a lot of people tuned in for the novelty of the first $1 million dollar tournament and/or to see the games worldwide debut. I imagine there was a sharp dropoff in viewers for Day 2 and 3, because I recall Valve refusing to disclose viewer numbers after Day 1.
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I just hope sc2 stays in dominance. Dota and all FPS are SO BORING to watch.
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On January 06 2012 10:48 dekarp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 10:30 Trevor.PGT wrote:dekarp: just dislike the fact that it's taken seriously as a competitive game. Did you even read what I said or did you just see "LoL... terrible"? I was trying to explain why it is more than just a casual game. The simplicity of LoL has shown to be great! The competitive aspect may seem lacking but this is mainly because the lack of experienced players. Once LoL players have played for months and years 8 and more hours a day it will bring a higher level of competition to LoL. Simplicity does not mean a game is lacking in competition. Competition is a contest between individuals, more individuals leads to an increased level of competition. Just no, it has nothing to do with experience. LoL has been out longer than Starcraft 2 btw... Yeah, its simplicity is great because it appeals to so many people, which is fine. Do you see me saying anything negative about a game like Banjo-Kazooie? Nothing wrong with being popular and easily accessible, as long as Rare doesn't fund some tournament series for millions of dollars to see who can collect all the puzzle pieces the fastest to promote it's esports legitimacy, whatever. May be a somewhat poor analogy, but I think you get the point.
Simplicity never stopped chess.
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To be fair, The International was essentially one big marketing stunt by Valve. Sure, Day 1 had 1.5 concurrent viewers, but I'm guessing that's because a lot of people tuned in for the novelty of the first $1 million dollar tournament and/or to see the games worldwide debut. I imagine there was a sharp dropoff in viewers for Day 2 and 3, because I recall Valve refusing to disclose viewer numbers after Day 1.
Perhaps it wasn't the ideal tournament to pick as an example, a more recent one being SMM that had anything between 20-30k concurrent viewers and that was on a terrible stream that lagged all the time, at a tournament that was barely advertised outside of the few dota only websites. The point I am trying to make is that there is room for more than just one super popular esports game, and that they can coexist without both scenes trying to point out how superior their chosen game is.
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On January 06 2012 11:10 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 10:48 dekarp wrote:On January 06 2012 10:30 Trevor.PGT wrote:dekarp: just dislike the fact that it's taken seriously as a competitive game. Did you even read what I said or did you just see "LoL... terrible"? I was trying to explain why it is more than just a casual game. The simplicity of LoL has shown to be great! The competitive aspect may seem lacking but this is mainly because the lack of experienced players. Once LoL players have played for months and years 8 and more hours a day it will bring a higher level of competition to LoL. Simplicity does not mean a game is lacking in competition. Competition is a contest between individuals, more individuals leads to an increased level of competition. Just no, it has nothing to do with experience. LoL has been out longer than Starcraft 2 btw... Yeah, its simplicity is great because it appeals to so many people, which is fine. Do you see me saying anything negative about a game like Banjo-Kazooie? Nothing wrong with being popular and easily accessible, as long as Rare doesn't fund some tournament series for millions of dollars to see who can collect all the puzzle pieces the fastest to promote it's esports legitimacy, whatever. May be a somewhat poor analogy, but I think you get the point. Simplicity never stopped chess.
Funny, people liken Chess to SC all the time, guess SC is simple then! Mind = blown.
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Tournament Money =/= eSport popularity.
These figures mean next to nothing.
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On January 06 2012 11:17 dekarp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 11:10 Eppa! wrote:On January 06 2012 10:48 dekarp wrote:On January 06 2012 10:30 Trevor.PGT wrote:dekarp: just dislike the fact that it's taken seriously as a competitive game. Did you even read what I said or did you just see "LoL... terrible"? I was trying to explain why it is more than just a casual game. The simplicity of LoL has shown to be great! The competitive aspect may seem lacking but this is mainly because the lack of experienced players. Once LoL players have played for months and years 8 and more hours a day it will bring a higher level of competition to LoL. Simplicity does not mean a game is lacking in competition. Competition is a contest between individuals, more individuals leads to an increased level of competition. Just no, it has nothing to do with experience. LoL has been out longer than Starcraft 2 btw... Yeah, its simplicity is great because it appeals to so many people, which is fine. Do you see me saying anything negative about a game like Banjo-Kazooie? Nothing wrong with being popular and easily accessible, as long as Rare doesn't fund some tournament series for millions of dollars to see who can collect all the puzzle pieces the fastest to promote it's esports legitimacy, whatever. May be a somewhat poor analogy, but I think you get the point. Simplicity never stopped chess. Funny, people liken Chess to SC all the time, guess SC is simple then! Mind = blown.
See how stupid such an analogy is? People liken it to chess because core fundamentals of one persons intelligence against another is the core of both chess and sc. And LoL. As long it is person vs person as long as a roof isn't possible (anything with a possibility of moves around the same level as chess.) The difficulty is made from the players. This is how basically all multi player games have.
Next we have people that wish to invest/watch.
BAM esports.
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Why do some Sc2 fans hate other games so much? (not all of you bear in mind) It's just like, "lol not sc2, must be bad", sure they aren't as skillful or even as fun to watch, but they all have their own merits..
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so wait... Dota 2 got more than 90% of its prize pool from one tournament????
same thing for CoD.
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On January 06 2012 11:24 stephen11 wrote:
Why do some Sc2 fans hate other games so much? (not all of you bear in mind) It's just like, "lol not sc2, must be bad", sure they aren't as skillful or even as fun to watch, but they all have their own merits..
You see the same shit in all scenes. BW hates SC2. Dota hates all, Hon hates LoL, LoL hates HoN. Quake hates CS.
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On January 06 2012 11:27 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 11:24 stephen11 wrote:
Why do some Sc2 fans hate other games so much? (not all of you bear in mind) It's just like, "lol not sc2, must be bad", sure they aren't as skillful or even as fun to watch, but they all have their own merits.. You see the same shit in all scenes. BW hates SC2. Dota hates all, Hon hates LoL, LoL hates HoN. Quake hates CS.
That makes it okay then? because others do it? no.
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Dota 2 comeing in second good to see!
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On January 06 2012 11:05 juicyjames wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 10:26 Calyeah wrote:http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/The_International#Coverage The wiki page said here that The International had over 1.5 million CONCURRENT viewers for the opening rounds alone, with a large chunk of viewers coming from china. This shows that you can't just write off dota2 as a one tournament wonder that will only see success To be fair, The International was essentially one big marketing stunt by Valve. Sure, Day 1 had 1.5 concurrent viewers, but I'm guessing that's because a lot of people tuned in for the novelty of the first $1 million dollar tournament and/or to see the games worldwide debut. I imagine there was a sharp dropoff in viewers for Day 2 and 3, because I recall Valve refusing to disclose viewer numbers after Day 1.
I watched some of it during day 1, simply out of curiosity. That said I am sure DOTA2 will do well competitively. MOBA games are quite popular. I remember all my friends from my WC3 days all moved on to DOTA. Interestingly they seemed to move over to it in order of skill from least to greatest.
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On January 06 2012 11:05 Fealthas wrote:
I just hope sc2 stays in dominance. Dota and all FPS are SO BORING to watch.
fps can be exciting to watch imo
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United States1518 Posts
On January 06 2012 10:37 Shiori wrote:
I think the problem with LoL is that, compared to DotA, it's laughably easy.
That's not a problem, it's a solution and why there is a very good chance that LoL will outshine DoTA2 as a competitive eSport. It's easy for casuals, as well as free, so there is a much larger playerbase, which equates into fanbase and a bigger eSport.
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The problem i have with a direct comparison of prizepools is that SC2 is a single player game, so if you win $250,000 you get all of that, where as a team game like DOTA 2 a $250,000 win is equal to a maximum of $50,000 and even less if you pay a cut to anyone who is a bench/specific role player.
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On January 06 2012 14:22 Hipsv wrote:
The problem i have with a direct comparison of prizepools is that SC2 is a single player game, so if you win $250,000 you get all of that, where as a team game like DOTA 2 a $250,000 win is equal to a maximum of $50,000 and even less if you pay a cut to anyone who is a bench/specific role player.
If you are on a team normally you do have to pay part of your winnings. Normally a certain % of it so they don't get all of it but yeah they don't have to split it with a team like DOTA has to and what not.
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Tribes is the only FPS I would want to see casted/streamed =/
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i don't see dota as an esport outside china.
the biggest competitive dota community is gosugamers.net and the people there are just shockingly (youtube level) retarded. the majority of them have 0 respect for top players, and you frequently see them make posts on how the chinese are losers because they take the game too seriously (in a competitive gaming forum nonetheless).
a big reason why SC2 does so well as an esport is because there are viewers willing to pay money to watch matches. i could never see that happen in dota, because it seems to be infested by 14 year olds.
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Good news for E-sports and the SC2 scene. I can only see things going up and up! And oh...2 expanions otw as well? Woot!
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If a MOBA overtakes SC2 in 2012, I will cry.
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do you know how much BW was? kinda wondering how large it still is. i know theres many tournaments but is there really that large of a fanbase anymore (compared to SC2)?
ps. i am by no means demeaning BW. played that game ever since i was 5, loved it and do like to see it be successful.
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On January 06 2012 15:48 Highways wrote:
If a MOBA overtakes SC2 in 2012, I will cry.
me too 
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MVP nestea and MC probably took most of that
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Wasn't suprised that SC2 was #1. But MW3? I thought LoL tourneys paid more money
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I want to know the size of the prize pool for Dota 1 in China. They get over a million viewers on their streams.
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I wonder if the people who are dismissing the Dota 2 scene realize that SC2's popularity was built entirely on BW's success. At least Dota 2 was a worthy sequel to Dota.
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It seems no one mentioned the important of BarCraft to the hole E-Sport thing. At least in the Western World. I bet, the bar's made a lot of money out of the BarCrafts.
Can someone tell me how many BarCraft-like Events there were for Dota2, LoL, MW3 or any other so called E-Sport? Would love to know. I did not hear of any in Germany.
On January 06 2012 19:54 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 15:48 Highways wrote:
If a MOBA overtakes SC2 in 2012, I will cry. You guys are overestimating the popularity of SC2 way too much if you think SC2 will be bigger than Dota and LoL.
i could never see a Bar be filled with people willing to watch Dota while they drink a beer. because most of them are under 16. can you see that happen?
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
So LoL didnt get up there? Thought they have lots of tours aswell! Guess not much prize money :S
Still thanks for that and the link!
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If we substract the big main tournament for both dota2 and CoD, we end up with 98500$ for dota2 and only 10000$ for MW3, really not that good and not representative at all.
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On January 06 2012 20:41 writer22816 wrote:
I wonder if the people who are dismissing the Dota 2 scene realize that SC2's popularity was built entirely on BW's success. At least Dota 2 was a worthy sequel to Dota.
Sequel? Its the same game.
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On January 06 2012 11:17 dekarp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 11:10 Eppa! wrote:On January 06 2012 10:48 dekarp wrote:On January 06 2012 10:30 Trevor.PGT wrote:dekarp: just dislike the fact that it's taken seriously as a competitive game. Did you even read what I said or did you just see "LoL... terrible"? I was trying to explain why it is more than just a casual game. The simplicity of LoL has shown to be great! The competitive aspect may seem lacking but this is mainly because the lack of experienced players. Once LoL players have played for months and years 8 and more hours a day it will bring a higher level of competition to LoL. Simplicity does not mean a game is lacking in competition. Competition is a contest between individuals, more individuals leads to an increased level of competition. Just no, it has nothing to do with experience. LoL has been out longer than Starcraft 2 btw... Yeah, its simplicity is great because it appeals to so many people, which is fine. Do you see me saying anything negative about a game like Banjo-Kazooie? Nothing wrong with being popular and easily accessible, as long as Rare doesn't fund some tournament series for millions of dollars to see who can collect all the puzzle pieces the fastest to promote it's esports legitimacy, whatever. May be a somewhat poor analogy, but I think you get the point. Simplicity never stopped chess. Funny, people liken Chess to SC all the time, guess SC is simple then! Mind = blown.
Like someone said before (and you), bad analogy. Also, likening =/= equal. Mind = blown.
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isn't cod and dota2 pretty much just billion dollar corporation throwing money at their game and none are actually sponsored the same way starcraft2 was?
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It's a good thing Blizzard isn't throwing prize money at events like Riot do. They help out with GSL and that's great but the scene needs to learn so sustain itself to be successful in the long run. Too much aid will only hurt the game and isn't needed at this point.
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How much money is actually into League of Legends? As far as I know, most of the cash is from Riot themselves. That isnt a self sustaining model which is what Esports actually needs. I dont want to discredit LOL as an esport but if most of the money is coming from the developer, that looks pretty bad.
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So sick.. SC2 by far the biggest esport moneywise
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I know SC2 is 1st, but i'm a little surprised DotA2 managed 1.6 million, how is that even possible, let's disregard the ridiculous 1mil prize pool promotion, even 600k for a beta game is still pretty nuts. I would have imagined SC2 would be many more fold ahead in prizepool.
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that MW3 result was actually very suprising.
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You need to remember that DotA2 and MW3 had one big tournament each with the prize money paid by the company making the game (valve and activision) so it's more like a PR-event.
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On January 07 2012 00:09 FiReMaN wrote:
You need to remember that DotA2 and MW3 had one big tournament each with the prize money paid by the company making the game (valve and activision) so it's more like a PR-event.
Right which is why i considered even 600k for dota2 to be enourmous for a game in beta.
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On January 07 2012 00:10 deadmau wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 00:09 FiReMaN wrote:
You need to remember that DotA2 and MW3 had one big tournament each with the prize money paid by the company making the game (valve and activision) so it's more like a PR-event. Right which is why i considered even 600k for dota2 to be enourmous for a game in beta.
did u even read anything of this thread? it was said before and even in the OP that 1,6m dollar come from "The International", not 1m.
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On January 07 2012 00:01 Spicy_Curry wrote:
How much money is actually into League of Legends? As far as I know, most of the cash is from Riot themselves. That isnt a self sustaining model which is what Esports actually needs. I dont want to discredit LOL as an esport but if most of the money is coming from the developer, that looks pretty bad.
StarCraft BW created an incredible foundation for StarCraft 2 eSports. Most importantly the success of StarCraft gave gamers and organizers the confidence in investing in long term infrastructure at the release of StarCraft 2. People had confidence that StarCraft 2 would be popular, well balanced and long lived.
League of Legends did not have this. They are similar to DotA, with a competing title HoN and an upcoming competing title DotA 2. Riot has to struggle to win gamers/organizers confidence, to show the world their game is popular and it's not going away. To do this they announced their $5,000,000 in prizes for season 2 the same time DotA 2 'The International' tournament was held. In the last few weeks Riot has also announced of the $5,000,000 - $1,000,000 will go to applicants hosting their own LoL tournaments. This means Riot is funding its own eSports growth by giving $1,000,000 to smaller organizations/individuals to help create the same kind of movement seen with StarCraft 2.
Source: http://competitive.na.leagueoflegends.com/competitive/season-2/introduction
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On January 07 2012 00:09 FiReMaN wrote:
You need to remember that DotA2 and MW3 had one big tournament each with the prize money paid by the company making the game (valve and activision) so it's more like a PR-event.
I believe IceFrog said that Dota 2 will have a similar tournament in 2012, of similar size and prize. Valve seems interested in making this a yearly thing sort of like the Blizzcon tournament.
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On January 07 2012 00:20 Trevor.PGT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 00:01 Spicy_Curry wrote:
How much money is actually into League of Legends? As far as I know, most of the cash is from Riot themselves. That isnt a self sustaining model which is what Esports actually needs. I dont want to discredit LOL as an esport but if most of the money is coming from the developer, that looks pretty bad. StarCraft BW created an incredible foundation for StarCraft 2 eSports. Most importantly the success of StarCraft gave gamers and organizers the confidence in investing in long term infrastructure at the release of StarCraft 2. People had confidence that StarCraft 2 would be popular, well balanced and long lived. League of Legends did not have this. They are similar to DotA, with a competing title HoN and an upcoming competing title DotA 2. Riot has to struggle to win gamers/organizers confidence, to show the world their game is popular and it's not going away. To do this they announced their $5,000,000 in prizes for season 2 the same time DotA 2 'The International' tournament was held. In the last few weeks Riot has also announced of the $5,000,000 - $1,000,000 will go to applicants hosting their own LoL tournaments. This means Riot is funding its own eSports growth by giving $1,000,000 to smaller organizations/individuals to help create the same kind of movement seen with StarCraft 2. Source: http://competitive.na.leagueoflegends.com/competitive/season-2/introduction
I don't understand why Riot is trying so hard. Do they think that having an esports scene around their game help promote growth?
None of these games, HoN, Dota(2), LoL are interesting to watch IMO. It's fun to play I'm sure, but there's just not enough suspense, strategy, etc for spectators.
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On January 07 2012 01:02 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 00:20 Trevor.PGT wrote:On January 07 2012 00:01 Spicy_Curry wrote:
How much money is actually into League of Legends? As far as I know, most of the cash is from Riot themselves. That isnt a self sustaining model which is what Esports actually needs. I dont want to discredit LOL as an esport but if most of the money is coming from the developer, that looks pretty bad. StarCraft BW created an incredible foundation for StarCraft 2 eSports. Most importantly the success of StarCraft gave gamers and organizers the confidence in investing in long term infrastructure at the release of StarCraft 2. People had confidence that StarCraft 2 would be popular, well balanced and long lived. League of Legends did not have this. They are similar to DotA, with a competing title HoN and an upcoming competing title DotA 2. Riot has to struggle to win gamers/organizers confidence, to show the world their game is popular and it's not going away. To do this they announced their $5,000,000 in prizes for season 2 the same time DotA 2 'The International' tournament was held. In the last few weeks Riot has also announced of the $5,000,000 - $1,000,000 will go to applicants hosting their own LoL tournaments. This means Riot is funding its own eSports growth by giving $1,000,000 to smaller organizations/individuals to help create the same kind of movement seen with StarCraft 2. Source: http://competitive.na.leagueoflegends.com/competitive/season-2/introduction I don't understand why Riot is trying so hard. Do they think that having an esports scene around their game help promote growth? None of these games, HoN, Dota(2), LoL are interesting to watch IMO. It's fun to play I'm sure, but there's just not enough suspense, strategy, etc for spectators.
I enjoy watching Dota, I enjoyed a fair few of the NASL2 HoN games. I enjoy playing LoL but I can't stand watching it at all, it's incredibly boring. I disagree in regards to Dota and HoN, they're pretty interesting to watch.
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c0ldfusion: None of these games, HoN, Dota(2), LoL are interesting to watch IMO. It's fun to play I'm sure, but there's just not enough suspense, strategy, etc for spectators.
The suspense, strategy and entertainment is there. These are team games and as such a lot of the entertainment value is watching how teams co-operate. There is one League of Legends match that I remember watching. This was a match from MLG, what happened was the team managed to do a get a permanent stun kill on a player by timing 3 abilities perfectly. What happened was a champion came from a bush (hidden by fog of war) used a stun on the middle lane opponent than the allied champion in the middle lane used their stun on the same opposing champion. The impressive part is what happened next, the player in the top lane (top portion of the map) was Ashe a champion with an ultimate ability that can travel across the map and stuns champions on hit. So while Ashe's two teammates used their stuns during that time Ashe launched her ultimate across the map hitting the same enemy champion. This resulted in a permanent stun kill meaning the opponent had no chance to move from being full health to no health.
This is just one match I found entertaining and when this happened at MLG there was a cheer that went up from the fans. As people learn the rules and objectives of ARTS / MOBAs they will begin to enjoy watching it.
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On January 07 2012 01:14 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 01:02 c0ldfusion wrote:On January 07 2012 00:20 Trevor.PGT wrote:On January 07 2012 00:01 Spicy_Curry wrote:
How much money is actually into League of Legends? As far as I know, most of the cash is from Riot themselves. That isnt a self sustaining model which is what Esports actually needs. I dont want to discredit LOL as an esport but if most of the money is coming from the developer, that looks pretty bad. StarCraft BW created an incredible foundation for StarCraft 2 eSports. Most importantly the success of StarCraft gave gamers and organizers the confidence in investing in long term infrastructure at the release of StarCraft 2. People had confidence that StarCraft 2 would be popular, well balanced and long lived. League of Legends did not have this. They are similar to DotA, with a competing title HoN and an upcoming competing title DotA 2. Riot has to struggle to win gamers/organizers confidence, to show the world their game is popular and it's not going away. To do this they announced their $5,000,000 in prizes for season 2 the same time DotA 2 'The International' tournament was held. In the last few weeks Riot has also announced of the $5,000,000 - $1,000,000 will go to applicants hosting their own LoL tournaments. This means Riot is funding its own eSports growth by giving $1,000,000 to smaller organizations/individuals to help create the same kind of movement seen with StarCraft 2. Source: http://competitive.na.leagueoflegends.com/competitive/season-2/introduction I don't understand why Riot is trying so hard. Do they think that having an esports scene around their game help promote growth? None of these games, HoN, Dota(2), LoL are interesting to watch IMO. It's fun to play I'm sure, but there's just not enough suspense, strategy, etc for spectators. I enjoy watching Dota, I enjoyed a fair few of the NASL2 HoN games. I enjoy playing LoL but I can't stand watching it at all, it's incredibly boring. I disagree in regards to Dota and HoN, they're pretty interesting to watch.
What's the differences?
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Funny thing tho is that most of Dota2 and CoD money came from their developers, and it's completly the opposite for SC2. SC2 teams and players already have all those sponsors. SC2 is an eSports living by himself and that's really not the case of LoL, HoN, Dota2 or CoD yet.
SC2 have way more viewers, fans and way more events. I don't see it living the first place next year or even the year after. If, for example, LoL is getting a super big prize pool in 2012 because of Riot and, this way, get some media attention and some more viewers... don't you think that Blizzard will do the same?
I already foresee it : "LoLcon, 5 milions dollars tournament in prizepool!" then a couple of weeks after... "Blizzcon, 5,5 milions dollars in prizepool!".
But meh, we will see. I hope that some games are succeeding since I don't want SC2 to be the only big eSports game ever... but I don't see it happening soon. Maybe with Dota2 later on or with some mystery game poping from no where.
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On January 07 2012 01:28 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 01:14 Mordiford wrote:On January 07 2012 01:02 c0ldfusion wrote:On January 07 2012 00:20 Trevor.PGT wrote:On January 07 2012 00:01 Spicy_Curry wrote:
How much money is actually into League of Legends? As far as I know, most of the cash is from Riot themselves. That isnt a self sustaining model which is what Esports actually needs. I dont want to discredit LOL as an esport but if most of the money is coming from the developer, that looks pretty bad. StarCraft BW created an incredible foundation for StarCraft 2 eSports. Most importantly the success of StarCraft gave gamers and organizers the confidence in investing in long term infrastructure at the release of StarCraft 2. People had confidence that StarCraft 2 would be popular, well balanced and long lived. League of Legends did not have this. They are similar to DotA, with a competing title HoN and an upcoming competing title DotA 2. Riot has to struggle to win gamers/organizers confidence, to show the world their game is popular and it's not going away. To do this they announced their $5,000,000 in prizes for season 2 the same time DotA 2 'The International' tournament was held. In the last few weeks Riot has also announced of the $5,000,000 - $1,000,000 will go to applicants hosting their own LoL tournaments. This means Riot is funding its own eSports growth by giving $1,000,000 to smaller organizations/individuals to help create the same kind of movement seen with StarCraft 2. Source: http://competitive.na.leagueoflegends.com/competitive/season-2/introduction I don't understand why Riot is trying so hard. Do they think that having an esports scene around their game help promote growth? None of these games, HoN, Dota(2), LoL are interesting to watch IMO. It's fun to play I'm sure, but there's just not enough suspense, strategy, etc for spectators. I enjoy watching Dota, I enjoyed a fair few of the NASL2 HoN games. I enjoy playing LoL but I can't stand watching it at all, it's incredibly boring. I disagree in regards to Dota and HoN, they're pretty interesting to watch. What's the differences?
There is a really high skill cap and a lot more strategy in HoN/DotA, you actually get to see sick plays from time to time. Not to mention the fact that the game is usually a lot more aggressive.
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A game can't be called an E-Sport if most of it's funding in tournaments comes from the company making the game itself. I can't get an analogy to this, but just because someone said he's going to invest X amount of money into Y does not mean the thing is popular/worth investing in.
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On January 07 2012 00:01 Spicy_Curry wrote:
How much money is actually into League of Legends? As far as I know, most of the cash is from Riot themselves. That isnt a self sustaining model which is what Esports actually needs. I dont want to discredit LOL as an esport but if most of the money is coming from the developer, that looks pretty bad.
Reason for that probably has been that there was untill very recently no real spectator client, so it's kinda hard to run tournaments for the viewers. There's still no official replay system. Riot is a young company whose game rose to massive popularity pretty fast so they're a bit behind on what you'd expect from the likes of Blizzard.
How many sponsors on SC2 scene you think there'd be if you couldn't have casters spectate the matches?
Oh and the LoL tournaments where the spec client didn't fk everything up, it has been amont the most viewed streams, sometimes more viewed than several or all other games combined. 200k+ in dreamhack anyone? Do you remember many starcraft streams that got past 100k? Not to bash sc2, just to point out there certainly is following for the LoL scene.
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It's not a good thing that most of the prize pool comes from the company that made the games. (valve, activision)
That doesn't provide a good future as esports, imho.
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On January 07 2012 01:47 Kurumi wrote:
A game can't be called an E-Sport if most of it's funding in tournaments comes from the company making the game itself. I can't get an analogy to this, but just because someone said he's going to invest X amount of money into Y does not mean the thing is popular/worth investing in.
That's a good point I would say.
A real eSports title must survive by itself, be popular and bring money to the table, not just actually "costing" money. It's not because CoD Activision, or LoL Riot can afford 5 milions than their games are good, competitive and popular. They basically put money into it, expecting that it will growth enougn later... they use money to back it up. SC2 actually never needed that. Company and Events are actually gaining money from SC2, without the need for Blizzard to back them up.
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On January 07 2012 01:02 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 00:20 Trevor.PGT wrote:On January 07 2012 00:01 Spicy_Curry wrote:
How much money is actually into League of Legends? As far as I know, most of the cash is from Riot themselves. That isnt a self sustaining model which is what Esports actually needs. I dont want to discredit LOL as an esport but if most of the money is coming from the developer, that looks pretty bad. StarCraft BW created an incredible foundation for StarCraft 2 eSports. Most importantly the success of StarCraft gave gamers and organizers the confidence in investing in long term infrastructure at the release of StarCraft 2. People had confidence that StarCraft 2 would be popular, well balanced and long lived. League of Legends did not have this. They are similar to DotA, with a competing title HoN and an upcoming competing title DotA 2. Riot has to struggle to win gamers/organizers confidence, to show the world their game is popular and it's not going away. To do this they announced their $5,000,000 in prizes for season 2 the same time DotA 2 'The International' tournament was held. In the last few weeks Riot has also announced of the $5,000,000 - $1,000,000 will go to applicants hosting their own LoL tournaments. This means Riot is funding its own eSports growth by giving $1,000,000 to smaller organizations/individuals to help create the same kind of movement seen with StarCraft 2. Source: http://competitive.na.leagueoflegends.com/competitive/season-2/introduction I don't understand why Riot is trying so hard. Do they think that having an esports scene around their game help promote growth? None of these games, HoN, Dota(2), LoL are interesting to watch IMO. It's fun to play I'm sure, but there's just not enough suspense, strategy, etc for spectators.
Well considering you haven't played the game and don't know anything about it besides watching a bit and deciding you dislike it I take your opinion with a grain of salt. There is plenty of suspense and of course strategy is a big part of it, but when you compare LoL to Sc2 of course the strategy is deeper. No one is really trying to argue that LoL takes more skill or any of that. I don'u understand the hostility towards LoL from Sc2.
Also I would argue that riot isn't trying at all. The only thing they do is throw money at the scene and hope that fixes everything. They don't support the competetive scene in the way that blizzard does. Blizzard is constantly making balance changes with competetive play in mind where as riot just makes stupid decisions and disregards the opinions of competetive players all the time. As both a LoL player and an sc2 player I can say that Sc2 is very lucky to have the support it has and LoL will probably die off after this year unless they just keep throwing money at it to try and salvage it.
It's unfortunate because LoL could be really good with proper support. Also mabey one of the reasons you couldn't stand to watch LoL is because we have no one to present the game. All of our casters are garbage and can't keep track of the game. Sc2 has achieved a large part of it's success because it's so well presented. We have Legendary casters everywhere in the scene(Day9, Tastosis, TB, even husky and hd have some credibility and do things for the scene). LoL just has no support other then the massive amount of money that's being thrown at it and that's going to be why it dies. R.I.P competetive LoL =(
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Not very surprising, Dota2 should not be there though, it's all because of one tournament with an oversized prizepool. LoL & CS should be #2 and #3 respectivly, MW3 has no place as an esport imo.
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There is an interview that gives an authorities (FourCourtJester) point of view on the LoL lack of tournaments not sponsored by Riot. Interview with FourCourtJester and eSporteye:
"What do you think will happen when the Spectator mode comes out for League of Legends will there be more LoL tournaments and new casters entering the scene?
FourCourtJester: I highly expect more tournaments to be run when the public spectator interface is released. More sponsors and organizations will be able to now get their names involved with League of Legends, and this is where the money is at these days. Smaller organizations will be able to put their best foot forward, and where there’s tournaments, shoutcasters will be needed. I know Riot will not cover them all, so that will lead to non-Riot staff commentating tournaments and start to get their own flavour of casting into the scene."
FourCourtJester has been casting for over a year, and is now gaining a reputation for MOBA- style games. He has worked with GameReplays.org, Cyber Sports Net, Borderland Gaming and NationalESL.
(Source: http://esporteye.net/interview-mlg-raleigh-caster-fourcourtjester-moba-lol)
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On January 06 2012 10:30 Trevor.PGT wrote:
Once LoL players have played for months and years 8 and more hours a day it will bring a higher level of competition to LoL.
Simplicity does not mean a game is lacking in competition. Competition is a contest between individuals, more individuals leads to an increased level of competition.
they already have and already do. TSM members stream for 9+ hours regularly, though I don't think 9 hours of Ranked really counts as practice. I honestly think no LoL players take the game seriously. All they do is try to get #1 on ranked instead of playing scrims and going over their games. And that's where I think LoL fails as an esport. Also, the client does not support spectators. The client does not support replays. The fact that you have to download a 3rd party program for replays, regardless of how good it is, is just laughable. The fact that you need a special tournament client because of the way you have to purchase champions, rune, and whatnot is rather silly too. At least you just need another account for other regions when playing SC2 or DotA. You don't need to unlock things to play a tournament.
I don't think LoL being simple means it's bad for competitive esports, it just means it's boring for more people. Going back to the chess analogy, sure chess is considered to be the most recognized board game in terms of skill, but honestly how many people here watch competitive chess for fun? I'm sure there are some people who do, but many more who don't. People like to watch exciting things, and while other chess players might be able to understand the thought processes and recognize the genius behind each move, your average viewer won't understand shit. LoL has simplicity yes, but it also lacks any sort of exciting strategy or gameplay that would make up for that simplicity. The same holds true for DotA/HoN, but at least DotA has more interesting mechanics and gameplay in my opinion.
Also I don't understand why people disregard DOTA2 as an esport when the game hasn't even been released yet. Sure SC2 had that King of the Beta tournament, but less than half the heroes in DotA were available for The International.
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Pretty sick amount for sc2
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wiho! :D gogo starcraft 2
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Norway10161 Posts
How much of the sc2 prize pool did mvp take home?
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On January 07 2012 01:45 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 01:28 c0ldfusion wrote:On January 07 2012 01:14 Mordiford wrote:On January 07 2012 01:02 c0ldfusion wrote:On January 07 2012 00:20 Trevor.PGT wrote:On January 07 2012 00:01 Spicy_Curry wrote:
How much money is actually into League of Legends? As far as I know, most of the cash is from Riot themselves. That isnt a self sustaining model which is what Esports actually needs. I dont want to discredit LOL as an esport but if most of the money is coming from the developer, that looks pretty bad. StarCraft BW created an incredible foundation for StarCraft 2 eSports. Most importantly the success of StarCraft gave gamers and organizers the confidence in investing in long term infrastructure at the release of StarCraft 2. People had confidence that StarCraft 2 would be popular, well balanced and long lived. League of Legends did not have this. They are similar to DotA, with a competing title HoN and an upcoming competing title DotA 2. Riot has to struggle to win gamers/organizers confidence, to show the world their game is popular and it's not going away. To do this they announced their $5,000,000 in prizes for season 2 the same time DotA 2 'The International' tournament was held. In the last few weeks Riot has also announced of the $5,000,000 - $1,000,000 will go to applicants hosting their own LoL tournaments. This means Riot is funding its own eSports growth by giving $1,000,000 to smaller organizations/individuals to help create the same kind of movement seen with StarCraft 2. Source: http://competitive.na.leagueoflegends.com/competitive/season-2/introduction I don't understand why Riot is trying so hard. Do they think that having an esports scene around their game help promote growth? None of these games, HoN, Dota(2), LoL are interesting to watch IMO. It's fun to play I'm sure, but there's just not enough suspense, strategy, etc for spectators. I enjoy watching Dota, I enjoyed a fair few of the NASL2 HoN games. I enjoy playing LoL but I can't stand watching it at all, it's incredibly boring. I disagree in regards to Dota and HoN, they're pretty interesting to watch. What's the differences? There is a really high skill cap and a lot more strategy in HoN/DotA, you actually get to see sick plays from time to time. Not to mention the fact that the game is usually a lot more aggressive.
More or less, this.
There's so much more going on at any one point and time in a game of HoN or DotA, there's tons of potential for killing, it's less forgiving while also having the potential for comebacks. It's also balanced around niche design which gives every hero a chance to perform in very specific situations, it makes for more dynamic and interesting play, with the potential of what could essentially be described as "Timing pushes" built around certain heroes getting certain items for important pushes.
There are a lot of strategies, it's more mechanically demanding and there's a lot more team oriented skill rewarding abilities which means that you can use your abilities to create crazy awesome turn-arounds or saves or totally screw it up for your team if you don't pull it off correctly. League of Legends has very few such abilities to keep the game simple and avoid trollish situations in public games(HoN/DotA does that by allowing you to turn off your allies ability to use spell on you that could be detrimental) but this makes team interaction pretty dull with simple shields, heals and other small buffs.
Don't want to derail this thread into MobA wars, just some notes since c0ldfusion asked.
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On January 06 2012 08:12 solidbebe wrote:
Basically Dota 2 and MW3 are in there only because of 1 promotion tournament with a huge prize pool slammed ontop.
Dota 2 has already said the international will be a yearly tournament that maintains or increases its prize pool.
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Pretty sad to see the next two are mostly funded from 1 tournament by the company that makes the game. Both of them lol.
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what i think the most interesting part about this is that dota 2, LoL and HoN all are the same type of game, where there is no real other rts e-sport (besides maybe BW) that is competing with sc2 right now. I wonder if one of the MOBAs are going to dominate eventually or if we will always see this split in viewership.
I think if there were a MOBA that has a lead at the moment it would probably be LoL
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On January 07 2012 03:01 bigjenk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 08:12 solidbebe wrote:
Basically Dota 2 and MW3 are in there only because of 1 promotion tournament with a huge prize pool slammed ontop. Dota 2 has already said the international will be a yearly tournament that maintains or increases its prize pool.
Basically a Blizzcon Tournament but with a prize-pool worthy of a yearly tournament.
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The real measure is money taken in by the industry - subscriptions + sponsorships + ads. Clearly the other games are being supported as a form of advertising, but it's also worth pointing out that a decent amount of the SC2 money is speculative. Tournaments are (to an unclear extent) losing money now in order to position themselves for growth that they expect. What really makes it sustainable is money coming in. It's just that that's very hard to measure.
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And it's only going to get better : )
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On January 07 2012 03:12 aristarchus wrote:
The real measure is money taken in by the industry - subscriptions + sponsorships + ads. Clearly the other games are being supported as a form of advertising, but it's also worth pointing out that a decent amount of the SC2 money is speculative. Tournaments are (to an unclear extent) losing money now in order to position themselves for growth that they expect. What really makes it sustainable is money coming in. It's just that that's very hard to measure.
I think organizations will dial things back a bit after the dust settles from all this ESPORTS hype. That's my cynical view of it. I mean GOM's overall prize is lowered (longer, fewer tournaments, same prize pool). MLG's cutting employees to be "leaner" and I seriously doubt IGN will dump so much money into a ghost town tournament like they ran earlier (great online viewership though!)
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Maybe I am wrong but didn't Dota and COD have a lot of the developer's money being put into the prize pool which is different from blizzard? I wonder how much dota community will step up and get the tourny prize pool (yes I know they will do something), and how long can COD last with new FPS coming so frequently?
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On January 07 2012 03:30 IAttackYou wrote:
Maybe I am wrong but didn't Dota and COD have a lot of the developer's money being put into the prize pool which is different from blizzard? I wonder how much dota community will step up and get the tourny prize pool (yes I know they will do something), and how long can COD last with new FPS coming so frequently?
DotA itself has been community supported for a long-ass time, with a massive competitive base in China, similar to BW in Korea. I think they'll be fine.
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On January 06 2012 09:52 PhiliBiRD wrote:thing with dota is it was just 1 tourney... a good game for esports has MANY MANY opportunities. so just because dota 2 had #2 most money, doesnt mean its #2 best game for esports! Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 09:51 Ruscour wrote:On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL. this is straight up the dumbest thing I've ever read How is that dumb? He's pretty much exactly right. THere is no arguing that SC2 takes more skill to play... we know this. Why is that a bad thing for Dota? It's not. It's different. SC2 doesnt have a rival. Dota has LOL and HON to compete with.
You can't compare DotA skills and Starcraft skills. It's stupid. And first quote is even dumber. And omg, I'm sure we'll be able to hit the 6mill in 2012 :D
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I think it's worth mentioning that since DOTA 2 is a team game inidividual payouts are probably much smaller than SC2. I wonder if anyone is tracking an average payout per participant figure.
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On January 06 2012 09:52 PhiliBiRD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 09:51 Ruscour wrote:On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL. this is straight up the dumbest thing I've ever read How is that dumb? He's pretty much exactly right. THere is no arguing that SC2 takes more skill to play... we know this. Why is that a bad thing for Dota? It's not. It's different. SC2 doesnt have a rival. Dota has LOL and HON to compete with.
SC2 and DotA are two completely different games, comparing them is just silly. DotA is a team game, SC2 is not.
SC2 is a RTS, DotA is not. Sure, SC2 needs way better game mechanics (blah, hate my spelling today-.-), in the sense that you don't have to multitask as much. On the other hand you need to have team play in DotA, which is something you don't need in SC2.
Don't compare two differnet games, it's like comparing swimming with football, and saying one is harder than the other...
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I believe there's an SC2 team league in Taiwan (Gamabears, the team Sen is on is one of them), it's worth mentioning!
I think SC2 might be the only one of the 3 games mentioned that has a sub-community especially for female gamers (especially competitive tournaments with prizes) which I think is something that is important for the growth of eSports as a whole.
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On January 06 2012 22:43 iChau wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 11:17 dekarp wrote:On January 06 2012 11:10 Eppa! wrote:On January 06 2012 10:48 dekarp wrote:On January 06 2012 10:30 Trevor.PGT wrote:dekarp: just dislike the fact that it's taken seriously as a competitive game. Did you even read what I said or did you just see "LoL... terrible"? I was trying to explain why it is more than just a casual game. The simplicity of LoL has shown to be great! The competitive aspect may seem lacking but this is mainly because the lack of experienced players. Once LoL players have played for months and years 8 and more hours a day it will bring a higher level of competition to LoL. Simplicity does not mean a game is lacking in competition. Competition is a contest between individuals, more individuals leads to an increased level of competition. Just no, it has nothing to do with experience. LoL has been out longer than Starcraft 2 btw... Yeah, its simplicity is great because it appeals to so many people, which is fine. Do you see me saying anything negative about a game like Banjo-Kazooie? Nothing wrong with being popular and easily accessible, as long as Rare doesn't fund some tournament series for millions of dollars to see who can collect all the puzzle pieces the fastest to promote it's esports legitimacy, whatever. May be a somewhat poor analogy, but I think you get the point. Simplicity never stopped chess. Funny, people liken Chess to SC all the time, guess SC is simple then! Mind = blown. Like someone said before (and you), bad analogy. Also, likening =/= equal. Mind = blown.
Thank you for explaining what the words "likening" and "equal" mean. I'm sure no one knew it, so thanks for clearing that up kind sir/ma'am ^_^
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On January 06 2012 08:12 Diglett wrote:
i thought bw and lol would be on the list. anyone know the numbers for these games?
If you added salary I bet BW would crush everything else.
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Dota 2 is going to be HUGE.
The DotA community is bigger than the SC2 community in terms of size in areas like China and Southeast Asia.
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On January 06 2012 09:52 PhiliBiRD wrote:thing with dota is it was just 1 tourney... a good game for esports has MANY MANY opportunities. so just because dota 2 had #2 most money, doesnt mean its #2 best game for esports! Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 09:51 Ruscour wrote:On January 06 2012 08:23 Goldbullet wrote:
Not to hate on DOTA but I just don't see it competing with starcraft because it takes less skill to play and is basically a mirror of LoL. this is straight up the dumbest thing I've ever read How is that dumb? He's pretty much exactly right. THere is no arguing that SC2 takes more skill to play... we know this. Why is that a bad thing for Dota? It's not. It's different. SC2 doesnt have a rival. Dota has LOL and HON to compete with.
It's dumb because skill in Dota is measured in a much different way than in SC2. There's no doubt that individually, SC2 takes more skill, but since DotA is a team game, there's a huge "team skill" factor involved, which is INCREDIBLY hard to get. You don't just put 5 good dota players and get a good team, there's a lot more to it.
And Dota 2 is a beta. And a lot of organizations are starting to put money in Dota 2. Most sponsorless big teams are now sponsored and some money is rolling in. Expect a lot of growth from Dota 2 this year.
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i'm curious to see how LoL is broadcasted. if production value is good it may have some wings.
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Awesome read! Very interesting stuff.
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On January 07 2012 03:30 Ownos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 03:12 aristarchus wrote:
The real measure is money taken in by the industry - subscriptions + sponsorships + ads. Clearly the other games are being supported as a form of advertising, but it's also worth pointing out that a decent amount of the SC2 money is speculative. Tournaments are (to an unclear extent) losing money now in order to position themselves for growth that they expect. What really makes it sustainable is money coming in. It's just that that's very hard to measure. I think organizations will dial things back a bit after the dust settles from all this ESPORTS hype. That's my cynical view of it. I mean GOM's overall prize is lowered (longer, fewer tournaments, same prize pool). MLG's cutting employees to be "leaner" and I seriously doubt IGN will dump so much money into a ghost town tournament like they ran earlier (great online viewership though!)
Don't mistaken MLG cutting their employees as a sign that they aren't making banks atm.
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Even If other games get more in total winnings that doesn't mean much. If the developer is playing for everything then you can expect the whole scene to fall apart once the developer decides to move on. Its quite amazing how much sc2 made and almost none of it was sponsored by blizzard.(Exept blizzcon with GOM? )
By the way...Ive played Dota 2 beta. HOLY S**T it is boring. Matches take half an hour and you have to wait hours to get money to buy items. Everything is so slow(this sc2 on normal). Also the streaming/watch games client SUCKS. It is like 20 pages that tell you nothing about who is playing the game and are full of games you can watch.
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EPT
