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On January 01 2012 20:30 WarheadsByLink wrote:
I wouldn't mind rocks so much as a Z if they removed the armour on them ^^ Other races have early access to +bonus vs armoured but Zerg don't really get much (apart from spines / ultra IIRC). Early game you're realistically looking to kill rocks with lings which are incredibly slow to do so because of the armour. I've tried getting lots of early creep spread going so I can re-root a spine to the 3rd on tal darim to help break rocks but still that's a bit wonky =p
A bonus vs Armored is not as important as a high single burst damage output to minimize the armor effect (not the armor type, the armor value). DTs don't have any bonuses, but they will kill rocks fast. Roaches and Hydras kill rocks decently fast as well. The problem for zerg is that you must indeed produce those units to kill them, instead of droning (but once you get those units, you kill them fast, no problem). Your first set of lings is not enough.
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It depends on the map. Big maps like taldarim shouldn't have rocks at the third, but a map like xelnaga cavern, I'm fine with rocks that block a third. But you can still get a fast 3rd by sneaking it at the 4th if you so please
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it should be like testbug. The rocks only blocks the minerals, not the expansion itself
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Yes, it's downright bad design imo. I feel that we can discuss about this for an entire year and blizzard wont even do anything about it. Does their CM even read the threads on TL?
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The game is too fast if zerg gets a free third... With injects they are maxed at 8 minutes, BORING 
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rocks on the 3rd favor terran because you can build your CC before killing the rocks, this advantage can easily be avoided, if the rocks block the minerals and gas instead of the place where the nexus or hatch or cc will be. That way everyone can kill the rocks while building.
These sort of rocks are there to prevent a zerg from getting an expansion up without any units, which is on some maps quiet needed.
So these rocks are there to balance out the map.
Rocks themself have a nice armor, so that the t1 units do really bad against them. So if you want to clean rocks fast you would need the t1,5 units. But no one forces a mapmaker to use rocks, they could use 0 armor debris if they think it would be better for their map. just have to note those specialty in the loadingscreen.
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I like the rocks for the third on the new twilight blizz map. Need moar rock placement like that.
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On January 01 2012 21:06 FeyFey wrote:
rocks on the 3rd favor terran because you can build your CC before killing the rocks, this advantage can easily be avoided, if the rocks block the minerals and gas instead of the place where the nexus or hatch or cc will be. That way everyone can kill the rocks while building.
These sort of rocks are there to prevent a zerg from getting an expansion up without any units, which is on some maps quiet needed.
So these rocks are there to balance out the map.
Rocks themself have a nice armor, so that the t1 units do really bad against them. So if you want to clean rocks fast you would need the t1,5 units. But no one forces a mapmaker to use rocks, they could use 0 armor debris if they think it would be better for their map. just have to note those specialty in the loadingscreen.
I really like the idea of rocks blocking minerals and gas instead of the nexus location! Great idea.
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Its only a problem if Zerg struggles on a map with rocks at the third, as long as this is not the case I dont see any reason to change it.
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because of queens in sc2 zerg growth rate is a bit overboard. rocks slow down this a bit. especially on large maps, where attacking the zerg early on is more difficult, you need rocks to balance the map
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Just cant wait, just cant wait, when the expansion hits, I'm gonna kill your natural, and BRING DESTRUCTIBLE ROCKS TO IT SO YOU CAN'T REBUILD!!!!! bahahahahahah ----seriously what did a rock do to the blizzard designers when they were little?
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Killing rocks is easy brother, they don't even attack back. Put your apm to use.
It would be a completely different story if the loch ness monster was in place of every rock. GL getting your 3rd, nessy is beast.
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Just beat rocks with paper. Problem solved.
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Rocks are absolutely needed an some maps at the moment, stop being stupid please.
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On January 01 2012 15:28 mastergriggy wrote:
I think the better question is are rocks really needed in starcraft 2 at all?
Rocks should be only on gold bases and certain pathways. This would fix so much problems. Zergs could take normal 3rd fast, and Terrans/Zergs couldnt abuse gold rushes anymore.
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On January 01 2012 21:56 Humposaurus wrote:
Just beat rocks with paper. Problem solved.
You win the thread good sir
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This is funny, first nerfed all the close pos and now this is a problem? Think all the nerfs terran had since zerg have just buffed A LOT, so this whine isnt even needed. TDA and ST is only maps that blocks 3rd afaik. Dont be too bitch :D get over it.
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supply depot too
some protoss players use that depot for voidray charging
they should fix the ground not add an ugly thing.
plus: supply depot in Terminus RE is really good idea, (maybe antiga shipyard good too), but to abuse it in every map definely is not a good map design
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On January 01 2012 22:15 winthrop wrote:
supply depot too
some protoss players use that depot for voidray charging
they should fix the ground not add an ugly thing.
plus: supply depot in Terminus RE is really good idea, (maybe antiga shipyard good too), but to abuse it in every map definely is not a good map design
I think things like that go beyond map design into game design territory.
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People talk about how Zerg getting a free third vs ffe toss or vs T made the map Zerg favoured, but statistics just aren't on your side. Shakuras is most definitely one of Zergs worst maps. Daybreak has fantastic balance, Brown took a 9 min Protoss third there. Metalopolis is Zerg favoured (except in Kr, where it is Terran favoured), but good T and P players still wont lose to a lesser Zerg there. 5th and 6th bases are incredibly easy to deny, and if e Terran takes 4 himself, he simply wins by denying these 2 bases.
Taldarim is pretty balanced, but the extremely open middle is very good for Zerg, which explains why Zerg is only slightly disadvantaged here due to rocks. With a free third, I think ZvT would be balanced and ZvP would be Zerg favoured.
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EPT
