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On December 17 2011 06:33 Probe1 wrote:
That isn't a balance proposal. That's completely rewriting the entire game. I'll be critically honest- it's a terrible idea. I don't like being that stark but that is the worst balance theory bullshit craft I've ever read.
>Give Terran a massive buff by making weapon upgrades apply to their two higher tech production structures
>Make hellions better despite them being already good enough and set for a huge change in HotS anyway
Mech is a viable alternative to the standard TvZ/P builds, albeit less so in TvP. All compositions do not have to be optimal to be successful.
Mech is not a viable build in TvP. It isn't rewriting the entire game. HOTS point isn't valid we haven't even see a beta to know what change are even making it through Alpha. It's not like T is going to go air and mech and make it a huge thing know because they save 600 gas on upgrades. by combining 2. T has 6 upgrades already reducing it to 5 is not rewriting the entire game....
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Look, would it make you happy to just call me an idiot? I'm never going to see whatever brilliance you do. Whether you admit to it or not, changing how upgrades fundamentally work and removing an important strategic choice for Terran is a terrible idea.
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What precisely does the term 'management' imply, as it was used in the GSL Blizzard Cup Finalists interview? Does it mean something along the same lines as 'macro game'? Or is it used to indicate a control-centric style?
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On December 17 2011 11:29 Misanthrope wrote:
What precisely does the term 'management' imply, as it was used in the GSL Blizzard Cup Finalists interview? Does it mean something along the same lines as 'macro game'? Or is it used to indicate a control-centric style?
They're talking about 'macro'
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How come we don't see those fun fun strategies in tournaments like whiterA's 6 stargate void ray into mass carrier followed by 14warp gates?
or TLO's materbaiting nukes (HDstarcraft  I feel that starcraft like all other should have its time when you just wanna have fun like the feeling that you get when you were a kid playing at a friend's basement not caring if you lose but you're just in it for the fun.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
Zenex team came with red blood sponsor logos at GSL today, does anyone knowwhat red blood is exactly?
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Mech worked out quiet well versus toss imo, until that horrible day when tank shells were repleaced with a cheaper version and only does evil damage to armored. Hellions function like the vulture ... which means you block for a moment but then retreat into the tanks again. Now zealots, thanks to charge and being light take almost no damage, then the target ai + the auto surround, can take so much shots, that you most like kill a tank along with one zealot, while the tank splash doesn't even hit alot of zealts.
Blocking the charge with hellions is helpful but now you also don't reach the immortals anymore with your hellions (they burned all the zealots in their way so huge damage). Added blue flame nerf too.
I guess it would be okay if tanks would not deal so much splash damage to their own units, while charge really helps to dodge tank shots. But right now it feels like the terra army is killing themself with siege tanks against toss, since stalkers that get targeted can simply blink back.
So it seems every toss unit is build to fight of siege tanks, not only the immortal. And while the thors 250mm works super well against archons and immortals (to an extend where the toss doesn't even have to bother building those 2 units, unless they go pure for them, which makes the hellion wall shine). But then there is feedback, that can deal nice damage to a thors.
So imo you atleast need ghosts in your mech army, only 2 or 3 to, but they are essential to make up for the weak damage mech does to toss. And thors in siege tank range are pretty save against feedback anyway, but can clean off any immortal or archon trying to close in on tanks.
Unmanned bunkers also work really well against chargelot if the map isn't to open. But with map releases like taldarim mech really became hard to play. And with mech you have to and are forced to take workers along, most people forget this when going mech. Anyway mech works fine once you reach the 200 supply with a nice bank of ressources, but the way there still has to be found out.
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A tank upgrade that gives greater splash in the direction away from the tank would help. This and making terran buildings immune to tank splash.
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If you up tanks , 1-1-1 will be even more unstoppable for P ....
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I cant fucking wait until heart of the swarm. Mothership/Void/Archon/Carrier is so imbalanced in PvZ. Hurry up and cut those units.
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I'm trying to find a thread on what pro players think about the new units announced so far, or at least high level discussion / opinions. Could someone please direct me to the proper place?
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I would like mapmakers to start experimenting by adding deplete mining gas function to some of the gases similar to bw
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On December 18 2011 03:33 Lebzetu wrote:
I cant fucking wait until heart of the swarm. Mothership/Void/Archon/Carrier is so imbalanced in PvZ. Hurry up and cut those units.
Lol wut...?
Do you have any idea how long it takes Protoss to acquire that perfect deathball of an army?
As Zergs we can reach BL/Infestor/Corruptor in like, half the time it takes them to get Mothership w/ Vortex (2), Archons, VRs and Carriers lmfao.
As for Archon toilet... split your broods. It pains me to see pro players a-move broods in a group stacked up and just die to Archon toilet.
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United States23455 Posts
On December 18 2011 03:43 Jinmaster wrote:
I'm trying to find a thread on what pro players think about the new units announced so far, or at least high level discussion / opinions. Could someone please direct me to the proper place?
There was a discussion on state of the game with destiny, incontrol, artosis, jp, and tyler. I believe it was episode 54? You can check that.
Edit: I believe that the following episode featured the opinions of Day9 and Idra, so check that out as well.
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United States23455 Posts
On December 17 2011 13:25 Akatsukisasori wrote:How come we don't see those fun fun strategies in tournaments like whiterA's 6 stargate void ray into mass carrier followed by 14warp gates? or TLO's materbaiting nukes (HDstarcraft I feel that starcraft like all other should have its time when you just wanna have fun like the feeling that you get when you were a kid playing at a friend's basement not caring if you lose but you're just in it for the fun.
Well here's the thing. When there is $50,000 in prize money on the line, would you rather go for something tried and true and have a very good shot to win, or go six stargate mass carriers and have a very good chance of getting scouted and rolled? I can think of a few examples that are going to further dissuade players from trying these "fun builds" in tournaments. In MLG DC of 2010, Select was playing Huk in the loser's finals. Huk went for a fast mothership in the deciding game 2. Although the fans were overjoyed by his play and there was some humorous in game chat, Select went straight up Marine Marauder and won that game. Although Select was actually I believe criticized for playing standard when it was obvious huk was having fun, it made sense for him to do what he did for the sake of more prize money.
This game can be seen here: (click the smiley lolz)
Another more recent example is MC going for Carriers and motherships in game four of his series against DRG in the Blizzard Cup. Had he won this game, he would have advanced to the finals and a shot at the title. However, DRG shut this down with corruptors and MC lost. I don't think he will be trying that strategy in a tournament again. If you want to see more about this matchup there are a few write ups on TL that you can read.
I agree with you that it is fun to watch players go with strange strats. It makes the game very entertaining. However, players want a shot at winning, and most players won't put themselves in jeopardy of elimination by being "entertaining" and I cannot blame them.
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On December 18 2011 04:03 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2011 03:33 Lebzetu wrote:
I cant fucking wait until heart of the swarm. Mothership/Void/Archon/Carrier is so imbalanced in PvZ. Hurry up and cut those units. Lol wut...? Do you have any idea how long it takes Protoss to acquire that perfect deathball of an army? As Zergs we can reach BL/Infestor/Corruptor in like, half the time it takes them to get Mothership w/ Vortex (2), Archons, VRs and Carriers lmfao. As for Archon toilet... split your broods. It pains me to see pro players a-move broods in a group stacked up and just die to Archon toilet.
There was a Destiny game a few days ago I was watching on his stream in a ZvP. He had his Broods nearly perfectly split up in a concave. He had like 22 or something, and I mean -- none were overlapping or anything at all. Two vortex's took out 3/4ths of his Brood Lords instantly in them.
Although I agree with the sentiment of "dont let them get there in the first place", which is what differentiates this post from the usual balance trash -- as that's how you beat it, just don't fucking let them get there in the first place. However, if they do get there, it's nigh impossible to stop.
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Is it possible to watch streams on an iphone? If not, any good sources for iphone-friendly SC2 video content to watch at the gym? )))
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On December 18 2011 11:58 Vei wrote:Is it possible to watch streams on an iphone? If not, any good sources for iphone-friendly SC2 video content to watch at the gym? )))
Yes you can; my two younger brothers watch streams on their iphones all the time. They even have notifications sent to them when their favorite players come online!
Happy 2K post
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On December 18 2011 07:45 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2011 04:03 Flonomenalz wrote:On December 18 2011 03:33 Lebzetu wrote:
I cant fucking wait until heart of the swarm. Mothership/Void/Archon/Carrier is so imbalanced in PvZ. Hurry up and cut those units. Lol wut...? Do you have any idea how long it takes Protoss to acquire that perfect deathball of an army? As Zergs we can reach BL/Infestor/Corruptor in like, half the time it takes them to get Mothership w/ Vortex (2), Archons, VRs and Carriers lmfao. As for Archon toilet... split your broods. It pains me to see pro players a-move broods in a group stacked up and just die to Archon toilet. There was a Destiny game a few days ago I was watching on his stream in a ZvP. He had his Broods nearly perfectly split up in a concave. He had like 22 or something, and I mean -- none were overlapping or anything at all. Two vortex's took out 3/4ths of his Brood Lords instantly in them. Although I agree with the sentiment of "dont let them get there in the first place", which is what differentiates this post from the usual balance trash -- as that's how you beat it, just don't fucking let them get there in the first place. However, if they do get there, it's nigh impossible to stop.
The same could have been said for Broodlord Infestor before Protoss found out they can still use the Archon toilet, fact is, there is no way to beat a group of ten plus Broodlord with crackling ling and Infestor support without Vortex..
Just because there is no way KNOWN to beat the toliet does not mean that is no way to beat it. I'm sure Destiny could have done something in the time it took for the Mothership to come out AND get enough energy for two vortexes....
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EPT
