• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:15
CET 21:15
KST 05:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada0SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA1StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Learning my new SC2 hotkey…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1452 users

Season 5 Map Pool Changes Announced - Page 36

Forum Index > SC2 General
876 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 44 Next All
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-20 14:22:04
December 20 2011 14:18 GMT
#701
On December 19 2011 03:53 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2011 04:15 jaknize wrote:
My map pool wish list: Bel'Shir Beach, Dual Sight, Metalopolis, Antiga Shipyard, Crevasse, Daybreak, The Shattered Temple, Shakuras Plateau all Tournament maps using tournament settings. Those are the good maps anyway and Blizzard can throw in a couple extras as a test to see if they are good maps.



I wish people would stop asking for Dual Sight. It is one of the most imbalanced maps in tournament play...


Show nested quote +
Size: 150x120
Spots: 2, 8
Tileset: Ash World
Games played: 266

Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 40-29 (58%) [ Games ]
ZvP: 31-15 (67.4%) [ Games ]
PvT: 22-31 (41.5%) [ Games ]

Use a different sample and the stats are totally different. Here's the International version. (seems very very balanced). Remember most on the games on Dual Sight 1.0 in Korea were played during the Sad Zealot era where every Protoss only knew how to lose.

Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 85-80 (51.5%) [ Games ]
ZvP: 63-57 (52.5%) [ Games ]
PvT: 77-58 (57%) [ Games ]

Here are stats for the 1.1 version of the maps in International and Korean (sample size a little too small though)
Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 4-2 (66.7%) [ Games ]
ZvP: 3-2 (60%) [ Games ]
PvT: 3-5 (37.5%) [ Games ]

Race Stats (non-mirrors):
TvZ: 13-10 (56.5%) [ Games ]
ZvP: 6-9 (40%) [ Games ] (you will see it actually seems slightly Protoss favored)
PvT: 6-11 (35.3%) [ Games ]

Dual Sight is hard for Protoss. But it's not as bad as say old Bel'Shir Beach or Terminus with rocks at 3rd entrance (Terminus SE 1.0).



TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
December 20 2011 14:44 GMT
#702
well dual sight isn't to bad for toss, since a 2 base push is really powerful with sentries onto opponents third and natural (forcefields do really well there). But taking the 3rd doesn't work without dealing a deadly blow, that it would be more wisely to deliver the final strike.
They should add rocks to make the base zergs love to take (below or above the main) easier to wallof for the toss. It would be obviouse for the zerg that the toss wants a 3rd, but atleast they could pressure the zerg long enough so they can't kill the rocks preemptively.

On the other hand dual sight is a nice tournament map, because it delivers alot of early mid game fights. (since lategame some combinations are just to powerful on the map)
Nymbul
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom127 Posts
December 20 2011 15:13 GMT
#703
I vote Daybreak into the map pool
paintfive
Profile Joined September 2011
785 Posts
December 20 2011 15:28 GMT
#704
On December 21 2011 00:13 Nymbul wrote:
I vote Daybreak into the map pool


seconded.

Not liking Arid so far. The natural is so awkwardly shaped. You can barely fit anything in there.
ArtisaBang
Profile Joined December 2011
195 Posts
December 20 2011 15:30 GMT
#705
just checked maps!

forge expand for protoss on both maps:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


i think Entombed Valley is definitely Terran map,siege positions good as Altarim.
Entombed Valley:
PvT > T favored with siege tank timings and positioning.
PvZ > i think zerg favored because its pretty easy to taking 3rd.
TvZ > terran favored imo!

Arid Plateu
hmm...i think this map is not good for zerg playes pretty okey for terran and protoss.
KDot2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1213 Posts
December 20 2011 15:44 GMT
#706
in my opinion these maps suck

Blizzard please quit trying ... you have so many good maps made by GSL USE THEM
Zaurus
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore676 Posts
December 20 2011 16:17 GMT
#707
There is no way toss can FFE on these maps. I can't even veto out shattered and meta now... I really hate to go 1 gate expand, is like playing the game from behind against zerg.
shrift
Profile Joined August 2011
United States39 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-20 17:25:07
December 20 2011 17:23 GMT
#708
On December 21 2011 01:17 Zaurus wrote:
There is no way toss can FFE on these maps. I can't even veto out shattered and meta now... I really hate to go 1 gate expand, is like playing the game from behind against zerg.


Did you look at the screenshots above by 'ArtisaBang'? Just a couple posts above. I think its extreme to say "there is no way Toss can FFE". I actually think FFE should be based on how often the zerg will 15 hatch, not exactly how perfectly the map is structured. If zerg 15 hatches, just FFE.
TheHansBecker
Profile Joined February 2011
United States117 Posts
December 20 2011 17:35 GMT
#709
--- Nuked ---
L3g3nd_
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand10461 Posts
December 20 2011 17:42 GMT
#710
Man, i thought Season 4 maps were bad, Season 5 brings on a whole new meaning of bad.
https://twitter.com/#!/IrisAnother
Mrvoodoochild1
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1439 Posts
December 20 2011 17:48 GMT
#711
The new blizzard maps are horrible like always. I'm going to abuse them as terran on my smurf
"let your freak flag fly"
AimlessAmoeba
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada704 Posts
December 20 2011 17:48 GMT
#712
On December 21 2011 02:42 L3g3nd_ wrote:
Man, i thought Season 4 maps were bad, Season 5 brings on a whole new meaning of bad.


At least they're slowly, slowwwwwwly perfecting a good map pool. We're a long way away from the garbage of season 2 and 3 ^_^.

But yeah, I feel like the new blizz maps every season are thrown together in a week. They're so uninspired, and so boring - they should really hire some of the TL contest guys or start outsourcing to GSL.
LKCCOMANDER
Profile Joined November 2010
Costa Rica50 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-20 17:53:50
December 20 2011 17:52 GMT
#713
After been Gold for the last 4 seasons I'm Finally Platinium!! .

Thanks to all of you TL.net

I'm a Happy Brotoss today!!!

Placement match was aganist a Zerg in Shakuras he was Diamond apparently ~ I lose XD
"The AT Field is the light of my soul"~Kaworu
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
December 20 2011 17:54 GMT
#714
man that sand map looks awful for PvZ.
Forge expand or die trying.
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
December 20 2011 17:55 GMT
#715
On December 21 2011 00:30 ArtisaBang wrote:
just checked maps!

forge expand for protoss on both maps:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


i think Entombed Valley is definitely Terran map,siege positions good as Altarim.
Entombed Valley:
PvT > T favored with siege tank timings and positioning.
PvZ > i think zerg favored because its pretty easy to taking 3rd.
TvZ > terran favored imo!

Arid Plateu
hmm...i think this map is not good for zerg playes pretty okey for terran and protoss.

jesus look how much shit you have to put up just to keep yourself covered vs mild pressure.
that kinda negates the point of forge expand if you have to dump 400+ more minerals just to keep safe.
Remb
Profile Joined August 2011
United States190 Posts
December 20 2011 18:01 GMT
#716
These maps are complete garbage compared to GSL's map pool. Let's even ignore the balance factors and obsession with rocks. These are the least aesthetically pleasing maps to look at.
A virtuous act is performed habitually, and not once from incentive alone.
ArtisaBang
Profile Joined December 2011
195 Posts
December 20 2011 18:02 GMT
#717
On December 21 2011 02:55 Condor Hero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 00:30 ArtisaBang wrote:
just checked maps!

forge expand for protoss on both maps:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


i think Entombed Valley is definitely Terran map,siege positions good as Altarim.
Entombed Valley:
PvT > T favored with siege tank timings and positioning.
PvZ > i think zerg favored because its pretty easy to taking 3rd.
TvZ > terran favored imo!

Arid Plateu
hmm...i think this map is not good for zerg playes pretty okey for terran and protoss.

jesus look how much shit you have to put up just to keep yourself covered vs mild pressure.
that kinda negates the point of forge expand if you have to dump 400+ more minerals just to keep safe.

then you should make 1 gate expand,its blizzard's fault,not mine...
leo23
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3075 Posts
December 20 2011 18:04 GMT
#718
I will go ahead and veto arid, xel(obvious), and im going to give entombed a chance
banelings
L3g3nd_
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand10461 Posts
December 20 2011 18:14 GMT
#719
On December 21 2011 02:48 AimlessAmoeba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 02:42 L3g3nd_ wrote:
Man, i thought Season 4 maps were bad, Season 5 brings on a whole new meaning of bad.


At least they're slowly, slowwwwwwly perfecting a good map pool. We're a long way away from the garbage of season 2 and 3 ^_^.

But yeah, I feel like the new blizz maps every season are thrown together in a week. They're so uninspired, and so boring - they should really hire some of the TL contest guys or start outsourcing to GSL.

it makes me wonder who is actually doing the map pool.... we still have TDA and XNC in the map pool.... Blizzard has a history of taking sc2 maps out of the map pool because they are awful, and a history of putting GSL maps into the map pool, and a history of making bad maps, yet they put their maps in, leave in imbalanced/bad maps, and dont add GSL maps. I really would like to see some justification of their map pool. XNC is one of the most imbalanced maps for ZvT, yet its been in there forever, I guess they could argue that thats what vetos are for, but imo vetos should be for maps you dont like, not for vetoing imbalanced maps
https://twitter.com/#!/IrisAnother
dmnum
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Brazil6910 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-20 18:25:35
December 20 2011 18:25 GMT
#720
Just played 2 games on arid and already vetoe'd it. God awful map for zerg, natural is very hard to defend protosses pushes because there's almost no surface area you can get, and it seems like it's also very hard for protosses to FFE. Entombed is ok for ZvT.
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 44 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 45m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 423
BRAT_OK 83
JuggernautJason80
Railgan 51
ForJumy 18
ROOTCatZ 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2971
Horang2 853
Shuttle 584
Free 71
scan(afreeca) 49
NaDa 10
Dota 2
Gorgc4378
420jenkins346
League of Legends
rGuardiaN39
Counter-Strike
fl0m1386
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu380
Other Games
Grubby4337
FrodaN1606
Beastyqt786
ceh9429
KnowMe203
ArmadaUGS99
Mew2King92
Trikslyr67
ZombieGrub37
Organizations
Other Games
Algost 7
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 209
• Adnapsc2 19
• Reevou 9
• Hupsaiya 5
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Dystopia_ 0
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV452
League of Legends
• imaqtpie2613
• TFBlade889
Other Games
• Shiphtur308
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 45m
WardiTV Korean Royale
15h 45m
OSC
20h 45m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 15h
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
BSL 21
4 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.