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To all arguing the Naniwa was punished by an unwritten rule - grow up.
There is no chance ANYBODY could cover all angles and write a perfect "Book of rules" even if he wrote in it for 1000 years.
Some said manner mules are offensive. Ok go ahead and write a perfect valid rule that should outlaw manner mules when you think you've won the game.
Think how to differentiate dropping mules with the intent of showing to your opponent it's over or dropping them with the intent of repairing your army. Dropping them as accident instead scanning - Is 1 mule an accident ok ? 2 mules ok ? 3 ? Where do you draw the line when it's clear he was intentionally spamming mules and wasn't a finger shake from the emotion ?
Maybe if you drop them close to your army can be seen as a genuine attempt to repair your army ? Ok so let's make it at most 2 inches further from your farther unit on a 19 inch monitor it's allowed to drop mules.
Oh hey but when i intended to drop the mule that hellion was still alive and my mule was in the rules. I was slow, the animation was slow and when my mule dropped the hellion was dead leaving my mule in offside !!
That's just a little part that can't be explicitly covered by any kind of rule. The same it's with making the difference between a player stroking his neck or making a slit neck sign to an opponent.
There are things that simply can't be covered by rules all you need is COMMON SENSE.
You're acting like cry babies who argue their mum she didn't explicitly tell you you're not allowed to light the 6th match in the matchbox on a friday 13 and set on fire the south-south-east part of a tissue even if the area burned is less or equal with 1.37 square inch.
As such GOM can't write all the rules and needs to write a more general rule "Players need to act with professionalism or risk a warning or disqualification" and from there they use common sense - try to do same.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On December 15 2011 07:52 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:51 Chill wrote:On December 15 2011 07:49 mango_destroyer wrote:On December 15 2011 07:46 Chill wrote:On December 15 2011 07:44 mango_destroyer wrote:On December 15 2011 07:42 ACrow wrote:I could agree with Gom's punishment of revoking Naniwa's Code S spot for immature behavior... ...if it wasn't for the MLG exchange program. The way the wording of the program is - as far as it's public - GSL broke their obligations to MLG. This is very unprofessional by Gom and should be cleared up. If I were in Sundance's shoes, I'd be pissed; part of the appeal of his circuit is that it acts (or at least acted for 2011 events, which includes Providence) as qualifier for the most respected league. This damages MLG's reputation quite a bit if this is not cleared up! This whole thing makes me sad, I love the GSL, but something really seems fishy here  Providence wasn`t part of their obligations. Based on...? Do you have evidence of the contrary? There is 2 sides of this partnership, and GOM is on one side unless you believe they are lying. "2. Doesn't that mean that the GSL is depriving NaNiWa of a Code S seed that he rightfully earned? It seems like a lot of people have been under the impression that NaNiWa has received a Code S seed for taking 2nd place at MLG Providence. The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence." I have one public announcement and then I have one person who is saying after the fact that he changed the format but didn't announce it. And....? It maybe WAS before their format changed for 2012. Things aren`t set in stone forever you know. Just like in real life.
Yea maybe. If you announce something it's assumed that it's continuing unless you cancel it or announce a modification.
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On December 15 2011 07:56 Seeker wrote:
- Why Korean players never get punished for throwing games
Name matches that were purposefully thrown that Koreans did not punished for
Nestea, Nestea vs MVP
Blizzcon finals
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It's actually kind of sad to read this thread.
Most of the people seem not to think before they post, no matter whether they side with GOM or with Naniwa.
On topic:
I guess the way it turned out is fine. To me, it didn't feel like Naniwa did anything incredibly wrong, but if GOM (and about half of the community) think otherwise, that's ok for me. Just not giving him a Code S seed sounds like a fair 'punishment' to me.
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On December 15 2011 07:56 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:43 Gin-san wrote:
That's actually a pretty lame response, just like i expected it. They think they're 100% correct and only blame NaNiwa. Hopefully Blizzard won't give the next SC2 contract to you but to KeSPA. Actually KeSPA would have punished Naniwa even more I think.
KeSPA wouldn't have granted him a pro-gamer's license in the first place. Tell me I'm wrong.
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On December 15 2011 07:56 Lazarusnpx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:51 l3iRdMaN wrote:
I completely disagree that naniwa should be punished at all, but, my opinion does not take into account Korean culture and what is/isn't acceptable in a situation like this, therefore my opinion = pretty meaningless. well, all of our opinions are completly meaningless so don't fell to bad 
But so is yours, and so is mine. However when put together they get strength.
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It's a non sens.
Ok, GOMTV dislike Naniwa's behaviour and decide to punish him. No problem for that.
My problem is about replacement. The worth player in manner purpose : Idra.
The man who insult his opponents when he is streaming, the man who ragequit vs Kas during DH (maybe the most lovely player in Europe, like most of Ukrainian players), i've so many exemples.
Replace Naniwa by Thorzain, TLO, Jinro, Stephano (he would refuse, but whatever), Sase, ToD, Sheth, Incontrol, Machine, Kiwikaki,etc...fuck there is so many respecfull players in the world. Idra is one of the best players, but if respect, honnor, duty is so much a big deal, Idra is the worth choice.
This choice is the exact opposit ofo Naniwa's punishment. It desn't make any sens.
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On December 15 2011 07:57 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:51 Starcraftmazter wrote:You have not addressed the following: - Why Korean players never get punished for offensive or disrespectful behaviour - Why Korean players never get punished for throwing games - Why it is OK to insult Naniwai and not apologise for your disrespectful and incorrect statements about him GOMTV is blatantly racist and clearly has double standards. Do you watch the GSL? Do you know what happened to CoCa? Also, trying to win with a crazy strategy and losing (ie Nestea vs. HuK) is not at all the same as obviously refusing to try.
or what happened to Choya for that matter.
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On December 15 2011 07:44 NanaCry wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:43 Eee wrote:On December 15 2011 07:41 NanaCry wrote:On December 15 2011 07:39 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote:On December 15 2011 07:13 staavros wrote:
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
MLG Providence was a 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition.
Pro Circuit Live Competitions grant Code S status. NOT invites to any particular tournament, be it Blizzard cup or anything else.
I expect either GOM or MLG, preferrably the latter, to explain to me and many others of the same opinion what of the above is wrong. For me that concludes the discussion about GOM simply deciding to NOT OFFER naniwa code S, versus TAKING IT AWAY from him.
On a side note, just an observation: Naniwa's code S status was announced by virtually EVERY party involved in starcraft 2 those previous weeks. Shouldn't GOM clarify that this is not true?
I am sorry, but no matter how much I try to rationalize it driven by my love for starcraft, it still seems absolutely clear that the rules changed overnight. I will still, with great hope, anticipate a statement that sets things straight. Thank you! This proves that GomTV is directly lying. Now they owe us an apology, and they owe MLG an apology. However, it doesn't mean that the punishment is inappropriate. GomTV, just stick with your judgements, if they are Just they will stand. Don't make up fake excuses and deny punishing a player. Now we can't trust you, GomTV. You are a business, not a cause. There are plenty of opposition tournaments that participate in the business of competitive eSports. Your own judgement against NaNiWa is that he acted unprofessionally, and is not trustworthy to give competition to his opponents, nor quality entertainment to your viewers. Your own judgement is turned back upon you. It is not professional business practice to lie to your customers. You are no longer trustworthy. If it is the cause of eSports that we are worried about, then we should support the trustworthy businesses.I certainly am not giving my credit card information to a company that blatantly lies. GomTV isn't lying, partnership changed, read the OP. Naniwa wasn't punished, he just wasn't chose for the spot, read the OP. You're welcome. You cant change partnership AFTER the event? that like changing prize money for the event AFTER someone has won the money LOL. Nope, they just didn't announce it yet. You should REALLY read the OP.
something like this should be announced way before the tournament take place ^^
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Terrible decision by GomTV. They destroy the dreams of a player. Sad thing. Nanis actions dont justify that.
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On December 15 2011 07:51 Kira__ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:49 Dexx wrote:
Just one question: Why does GOM invite Idra, a player that threw games at Providence instead of Naniwho basically did the same?
Why the double standards? Why do you make up lies? It will just create more confusion. IdrA has never thrown a game at a MLG.
There is loads of games from mlg and ipl that idra has forfeited/not played. IPL group stages and the 7th 8th playoff game vs haypro are two recent events
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On December 15 2011 07:55 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:51 Chill wrote:On December 15 2011 07:49 mango_destroyer wrote:On December 15 2011 07:46 Chill wrote:On December 15 2011 07:44 mango_destroyer wrote:On December 15 2011 07:42 ACrow wrote:I could agree with Gom's punishment of revoking Naniwa's Code S spot for immature behavior... ...if it wasn't for the MLG exchange program. The way the wording of the program is - as far as it's public - GSL broke their obligations to MLG. This is very unprofessional by Gom and should be cleared up. If I were in Sundance's shoes, I'd be pissed; part of the appeal of his circuit is that it acts (or at least acted for 2011 events, which includes Providence) as qualifier for the most respected league. This damages MLG's reputation quite a bit if this is not cleared up! This whole thing makes me sad, I love the GSL, but something really seems fishy here Providence wasn`t part of their obligations. Based on...? Do you have evidence of the contrary? There is 2 sides of this partnership, and GOM is on one side unless you believe they are lying. "2. Doesn't that mean that the GSL is depriving NaNiWa of a Code S seed that he rightfully earned? It seems like a lot of people have been under the impression that NaNiWa has received a Code S seed for taking 2nd place at MLG Providence. The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence." I have one public announcement and then I have one person who is saying after the fact that he changed the format but didn't announce it. If you truly believe that GomTV changed rules, take the original announcement by GomTV, the new announcement which says: "The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence." (A fact known before today.), make a new thread with analysis and make a claim. With all due respect, so far you're giving one-liners that feed trolls.
This is what GOM's own rules say.
At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
Surely now you understand how every single person in the SC2 community is under the assumption that Naniwa would have a guaranteed Code S spot.
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On December 15 2011 07:54 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:49 Eppa! wrote:On December 15 2011 07:39 GeriMage23 wrote:On December 15 2011 07:34 Eppa! wrote:On December 15 2011 07:28 MiXyass wrote:
Anybody that says KESPA would've handled this situation better has no idea what they are talking about
KESPA was not only strict about what happened on their own tournaments but they were strict on what happened outside of tournaments so that the players can display the best games possible on television
If this happened under KESPA naniwa would be 100% banned forever in any korean tournament
KESPA would not punish someone for not breaking a rule. KESPA was hard on players but not close to as subjective as GomTV. Its like Singapore vs Pakistan. Yeah KeSPA never banned players for throwing games away.... Ohhh wait saviOr..... HMMMMM.... SaviOr was banned for match fixing. He also broke rules Naniwa did not. how did naniwa not break rules ?
Because GOMTV said so?
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On December 15 2011 07:55 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:51 Chill wrote:On December 15 2011 07:49 mango_destroyer wrote:On December 15 2011 07:46 Chill wrote:On December 15 2011 07:44 mango_destroyer wrote:On December 15 2011 07:42 ACrow wrote:I could agree with Gom's punishment of revoking Naniwa's Code S spot for immature behavior... ...if it wasn't for the MLG exchange program. The way the wording of the program is - as far as it's public - GSL broke their obligations to MLG. This is very unprofessional by Gom and should be cleared up. If I were in Sundance's shoes, I'd be pissed; part of the appeal of his circuit is that it acts (or at least acted for 2011 events, which includes Providence) as qualifier for the most respected league. This damages MLG's reputation quite a bit if this is not cleared up! This whole thing makes me sad, I love the GSL, but something really seems fishy here Providence wasn`t part of their obligations. Based on...? Do you have evidence of the contrary? There is 2 sides of this partnership, and GOM is on one side unless you believe they are lying. "2. Doesn't that mean that the GSL is depriving NaNiWa of a Code S seed that he rightfully earned? It seems like a lot of people have been under the impression that NaNiWa has received a Code S seed for taking 2nd place at MLG Providence. The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence." I have one public announcement and then I have one person who is saying after the fact that he changed the format but didn't announce it. If you truly believe that GomTV changed rules, take the original announcement by GomTV, the new announcement which says: "The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence." (A fact known before today.), make a new thread with analysis and make a claim. With all due respect, so far you're giving one-liners that feed trolls.
The comparison between the 2 announcements you mention has been done by many in this thread.
All MLGs of 2011 after Colombus award code S status, not invitations to tournaments.
So, according to that, Providence does not award invitation to Blizzard Cup. It awards code S status It is very specific and clear, I don't see the need for a new thread.
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On December 15 2011 07:57 Mijati wrote:
What about the "tournament" where everyone played like crap? MKP playing off race and things like that. Why are players not allowed to play their best then. Double standards in this industry suck yet people seem to get away with it every day.
those were showmatches and were explicitly for the purpose of fooling around. only huk and jinro (?) took those games seriously because apparently they wanted to show their stuff.
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On December 15 2011 07:58 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:57 Hnnngg wrote:On December 15 2011 07:54 zeru wrote:On December 15 2011 07:53 Hnnngg wrote:On December 15 2011 07:51 zeru wrote:On December 15 2011 07:50 lightsentry wrote:
i suppose since there was no gsl dec blizzard cup was more or less gsl december code s right? blizzard cup isnt comparable to code S. if they actually changed the providence prize to a blizzcup spot, they announced false prizes at mlg. Yeah no, it was always top 2 at Providence gets to go to BlizzCup. You think they get Code S and BlizzCup? Yeah right, good shit. blizzcup was for major tournament winners. providence prize was code S spot. Uh you should check the BlizzCup on liquidpedia. Top 3 GSL points, MLG Providence top 2, IEM NY winner, IPL3 winner, DH winter winner, Blizzcon winner, and WCG winner. So you think Naniwa should get to go to Code S AND be invited to BlizzCup? Hilarious. He officially won the code S spot at providence, so yes he should.
Yeah you know, GOM doesn't know. You know, the people who are in charge of this.
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Were Code A spots given out at Providence and did these players affirm that? Because if not then there's no real argument here for Naniwa winning a Code S spot at the same tournament.
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They were nice enough to invite a player into their tournament. They have every right to revoke that invitation, especially when the player in question shit on their tournament and broadcast.
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EPT
