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Active: 1468 users

GOMTV Announcement regarding NaNiWa - Page 25

Forum Index > SC2 General
2400 CommentsPost a Reply
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lightsentry
Profile Joined May 2011
413 Posts
December 14 2011 22:50 GMT
#481
i suppose since there was no gsl dec blizzard cup was more or less gsl december code s right?
SCST
Profile Joined November 2011
Mexico1609 Posts
December 14 2011 22:50 GMT
#482
On December 15 2011 07:45 debasers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:41 SCST wrote:
Again I love how people in this thread are constantly whining about how GOM has "no right" to take away a Code S spot for Naniwa. WRONG. GOM owns the tournament, they pay for it and decide every aspect of their own tournament. They can change the rules, break them or whatever they want.

You on the other hand (person complaining about this), most likely sit on your butt and watch the games from a couch eating Cheetos. What you want is irrelevant. What Naniwa wants is irrelevant. GOM can do whatever they want, and if they don't want a disrespectful punk on their show then all the whining and Cheeto-throwing in the world isn't going to change that. Individuals thinking "waaa it's unfair" seriously need to grow up. There aren't enough consequences for jerks in this world, it should be applauded when someone or something finally grows the balls to enforce some.


This is not how society works dude.

There is a lot of relation beetween companies and people, there are contracts and deals. One company can't just stop and say, FUCK IT ill change that just because I can. The truth is that the decision the GOM made has a great impact in one's life, and it was a decision made purely by passion, not by reason. And I don't care what are the Koreans traditions, you make some rules and people should follow those rules. Naniwa did not break any rule, so he shouldn't be punished like that, at most a warning of some kind.

We are talking in a 2 thousand dollar punishment at least here guys, is not just a spot.


This is exactly how business and society works in the free market. If it is within GOMtv's legal power to abolish or ban Naniwa from their tournament because he is a disrespectful punk, then they can do it. And they are. And there's no amount of whining that will change it. GOM made the right decision and took control of their own tournament. No business is going to let some little child come into their store and tell them how to operate, or disrespect their staff. They're going to politely escort them out of the business and point to the sign on the wall: "We Reserve The Right To Refuse Business to Anyone".
"The weak cannot forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong." - Gandhi
Master_Blaster
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom269 Posts
December 14 2011 22:50 GMT
#483
On December 15 2011 07:47 Canucklehead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:41 LION` wrote:


""
GomTV are lying I got proof



Hihi: Your Official Announcement

Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL

At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:

Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.

"


Circumstances change. At the time that was written, Gom had a certain tournament format. Their format has changed a lot since that statement was made. It's only natural that the way players are seeded into gsl from mlg also change with it. There is no hypocrisy or lying here. Just a reshuffling of how mlg players are now seeded into gsl.


Rules can't change after events that were affected by them happened. There is no such thing as retroactive law. Maybe NASL should have changed their 100k$ prize pool to 10K$ during the finals claiming that the new format was putting 90k$ in donations for the poor. The players don't have to care for those changes. They want what they signed for.
SC2NeCro
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada507 Posts
December 14 2011 22:50 GMT
#484
Also, it's a lack of respect for foreign fans that want to see NANIWA and not Sen that GOM is completely disregarding.
Fav Terran: forGG, aLive, Jinro ||| Fav Zerg: Moon, TLO, DRG ||| Fav Protoss: Genius, Grubby, ToD
diophan
Profile Joined September 2011
United States1018 Posts
December 14 2011 22:50 GMT
#485
On December 15 2011 07:49 Dexx wrote:
Just one question: Why does GOM invite Idra, a player that threw games at Providence instead of Naniwho basically did the same?

Why the double standards?


Cause no one was going to see those games that he didn't attend anyway? Also it wasn't their tournament.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25986 Posts
December 14 2011 22:51 GMT
#486
On December 15 2011 07:49 mango_destroyer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:46 Chill wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:44 mango_destroyer wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:42 ACrow wrote:
I could agree with Gom's punishment of revoking Naniwa's Code S spot for immature behavior...
...if it wasn't for the MLG exchange program. The way the wording of the program is - as far as it's public - GSL broke their obligations to MLG. This is very unprofessional by Gom and should be cleared up. If I were in Sundance's shoes, I'd be pissed; part of the appeal of his circuit is that it acts (or at least acted for 2011 events, which includes Providence) as qualifier for the most respected league. This damages MLG's reputation quite a bit if this is not cleared up!
This whole thing makes me sad, I love the GSL, but something really seems fishy here


Providence wasn`t part of their obligations.

Based on...?


Do you have evidence of the contrary? There is 2 sides of this partnership, and GOM is on one side unless you believe they are lying.

"2. Doesn't that mean that the GSL is depriving NaNiWa of a Code S seed that he rightfully earned?

It seems like a lot of people have been under the impression that NaNiWa has received a Code S seed for taking 2nd place at MLG Providence. The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence."


I have one public announcement and then I have one person who is saying after the fact that he changed the format but didn't announce it.
Moderator
staavros
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands32 Posts
December 14 2011 22:51 GMT
#487
On December 15 2011 07:48 NanaCry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:46 staavros wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:38 NanaCry wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:35 staavros wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:21 NanaCry wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:18 HappyChris wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:16 JinDesu wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:13 HappyChris wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:13 JinDesu wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:10 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote:
[quote]


Thank you! I wish I could have watched the games. I'm still a little confused about whether he had already been awarded the Code S or whether it was "under consideration." If it had been awarded, then it is clearly a punishment and GomTV is lying. This would seem completely unnecessary, because obviously you can't have players deliberately throwing games because that would make match-fixing motive based rather than fact based. GomTV did mention this last point in their statement.

So my remaining question:

Had Code S been officially awarded to NaNiWa? Is there digital or hard proof of this fact?


There has never been, as far as I know, a GOMTV announcement that Naniwa gets Code S.


Read Waxangels post


My point is: GOMTV, after MLG Providence, has never announced Naniwa to get the Code S.


But they did allrdy announce it get it?

They didnt announce MMA or DRG got a spot when they won there code S in the MLG exchange program

Hihi: Your Official Announcement

Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL

At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:

Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.

this says it all Naniwa won a code S spot. Acording to there own rules.


So MLG Dallas 2025 will award a Code-S Spot too? Stop being blind, the partnership is over, or atleast in this form. GOM was about to explain it to us (as they said in this thread that you apparently didn't read).
If you fail to read or refuse to believe them, it's your problem but that doesn't make your statement right.


MLG Dallas 2025 is not a 2011 Pro Circuit Live event, thus it will not award a code S spot, unless an agreement is made by that time that determines so.

MLG Providence 2011 on the other hand, is a 2011 Pro Circuit Live event and, according to an absolutaly clearly worded agreement between MLG and GSL/GOM, awards code S status to the highest placed non-code S player, unless none such exists in the top 3.

The partnership, as defined by the specific agreement is over, AFTER MLG Providence 2011. It includes (as very clearly stated in the announcements of both MLG and GOM) all 2011 Pro Circuit Live events subsequent to the starting date of the agreement.

Edited mistake in the last sentence.


Unless the partnership changes. Which happened.
Read the OP.


No problem, as long as MLG or GOM remind us when did this happen and post the relevent links from the time it happened.

Or, alternatively, tell us that it changed secretly, with a relevant apology to the fans that they secretly changed an agreement and kept us all in the dark. If it didn't change secretly, there must have been in the past an official announcement of the change and the rules pages should be updated to reflect current information.

But I believe it never changed. I believe it was decided today that it is changed, in the light of circumstances.

I would be glad to see a link from the past announcing the change though.


What you believe isn't relevant in this situation. It has changed, GomTV was about to tell us as they said in their announcement, why are you all giving false arguments without reading the official statement ?


Ok, could you please provide a link from the past, where the 2 parties announce the modification of the agreement and the detailed terms of the modified agreement?

Then we can talk on the solid facts of the new agreement and judge for ourselves if the decision was right. Until then, I will judge according to the standing agreement.
HandleTaken
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden81 Posts
December 14 2011 22:51 GMT
#488
While I appreciate all the things GOM has done for SC2 I'm disappointed by this GOM announcement.

It looks like GOM rewrites the past to fit the present.
When GOM bends rules and creates new ones to fit their agenda I'm not sure I like where GOM is heading anymore.

By no means am I defending what Naniwa did.
But it seems as though GOM is to dominant in the SC2 world for their own good.

The only thing I can do to counteract that is not to subscribe to GSL anymore.
Kira__
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden2672 Posts
December 14 2011 22:51 GMT
#489
On December 15 2011 07:49 Dexx wrote:
Just one question: Why does GOM invite Idra, a player that threw games at Providence instead of Naniwho basically did the same?

Why the double standards?


Why do you make up lies? It will just create more confusion. IdrA has never thrown a game at a MLG.
The truth is, Yagami-kun, I suspect that you may in fact be Kira.
Starcraftmazter
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia71 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 22:53:23
December 14 2011 22:51 GMT
#490
On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote:
Dear Teamliquid.net users,


Original post: http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=212470&cid=0&kind=8



You have not addressed the following:

- Why Korean players never get punished for offensive or disrespectful behaviour
- Why Korean players never get punished for throwing games
- Why it is OK to insult Naniwai and not apologise for your disrespectful and incorrect statements about him

GOMTV is blatantly racist and clearly has double standards.

User was warned for this post
the bruvler
Profile Joined January 2009
16 Posts
December 14 2011 22:51 GMT
#491
On December 15 2011 07:50 SC2NeCro wrote:
Also, it's a lack of respect for foreign fans that want to see NANIWA and not Sen that GOM is completely disregarding.

Just throwing more foreigners in to appease us over bent rules is just insulting.
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
December 14 2011 22:51 GMT
#492
--- Nuked ---
Kimaker
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2131 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 22:53:18
December 14 2011 22:51 GMT
#493
My thinking on this matter tends to be in line with Tylers. What has GOM done besides excessively punish Naniwa for a minor indiscretion that their rules barely stretched to cover? What's more, this statement completely does a 180 on that rule topic and basically says, "He did something we don't like, so we're getting rid of him."

Poor decision on GOM's part. And as far as "culture gaps" are concerned, SC2 is international, culture and cultural understandings in specific incidents such as this shouldn't even be taken into consideration. Period.

Edit: And as has been previously stated, this seems to undermine the MLG/GOM agreement by completely altering the nature of the exchange program. Bad news overall.

Entusman #54 (-_-) ||"Gold is for the Mistress-Silver for the Maid-Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade. "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, But Iron — Cold Iron — is master of them all|| "Optimism is Cowardice."- Oswald Spengler
l3iRdMaN
Profile Joined February 2004
United States72 Posts
December 14 2011 22:51 GMT
#494
I completely disagree that naniwa should be punished at all, but, my opinion does not take into account Korean culture and what is/isn't acceptable in a situation like this, therefore my opinion = pretty meaningless.
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?37034 Posts
December 14 2011 22:51 GMT
#495
Whew.... thank GOD!!!! GOM finally clears up all the misunderstandings.

<3 GOMtv, <3 GSL
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
Golbat
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States499 Posts
December 14 2011 22:52 GMT
#496
On December 15 2011 07:50 lightsentry wrote:
i suppose since there was no gsl dec blizzard cup was more or less gsl december code s right?

That is incorrect. Try to read the description on GOMTV's website about the tournament, instead of posting your half-baked suppositions. It was an invite tournament of 2011 champions. there was no december Code S due to format changes.
Like why do u use an oven instead of a fire? Coz its fucking better at cooking, that doesnt mean you want the shit to burn.
Ponchey
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden89 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 22:53:06
December 14 2011 22:52 GMT
#497
So I gues people should be pissed at MLG for spreading false information about that Providence Code S seed? What is their take on this story, because obviously (according to the numerous posts on the site besides teams and commentator's saying that Naniwa had the code S seed) they were not aware of what GOM claims.
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
December 14 2011 22:52 GMT
#498
On December 15 2011 07:51 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:49 mango_destroyer wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:46 Chill wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:44 mango_destroyer wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:42 ACrow wrote:
I could agree with Gom's punishment of revoking Naniwa's Code S spot for immature behavior...
...if it wasn't for the MLG exchange program. The way the wording of the program is - as far as it's public - GSL broke their obligations to MLG. This is very unprofessional by Gom and should be cleared up. If I were in Sundance's shoes, I'd be pissed; part of the appeal of his circuit is that it acts (or at least acted for 2011 events, which includes Providence) as qualifier for the most respected league. This damages MLG's reputation quite a bit if this is not cleared up!
This whole thing makes me sad, I love the GSL, but something really seems fishy here


Providence wasn`t part of their obligations.

Based on...?


Do you have evidence of the contrary? There is 2 sides of this partnership, and GOM is on one side unless you believe they are lying.

"2. Doesn't that mean that the GSL is depriving NaNiWa of a Code S seed that he rightfully earned?

It seems like a lot of people have been under the impression that NaNiWa has received a Code S seed for taking 2nd place at MLG Providence. The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence."


I have one public announcement and then I have one person who is saying after the fact that he changed the format but didn't announce it.


And....? It maybe WAS before their format changed for 2012. Things aren`t set in stone forever you know. Just like in real life.


Packawana
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1081 Posts
December 14 2011 22:52 GMT
#499
If both MLG (through Slasher) and GOM affirm that the Code S seed was not given through MLG Providence, then there were no Code S seeds given through Providence, no matter what agreement had taken place beforehand.

I mean, unless it is absolutely known that GOM also gave Code A seeds to the top 4 foreigners at Providence, then there is no way of affirming there were any seeds to be given out at the event to begin with.

On that note, GSL did not send any Koreans over as part of the exchange program, as any Koreans that were there were already seeded into the bracket or were sent by their team. There was no exchange that occurred as in the past during Providence.
"May all your dreaming fill the empty sky."
Darksoldierr
Profile Joined May 2010
Hungary2012 Posts
December 14 2011 22:52 GMT
#500
On December 15 2011 07:51 Starcraftmazter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote:
Dear Teamliquid.net users,

Time really flies - we have already reached the Semifinals of the Blizzard Cup. We wish to conclude a great year of StarCraft II with the Blizzard Cup and hope everyone was able to enjoy some of the great matches we've had so far.

There seems to be great confusion regarding an incident involving NaNiWa that took place on the second day of Blizzard Cup. We would like to clarify this matter and hereby announce our official stance towards the incident.


1. GSL's stance toward the NaNiWa incident

Not only progamers, but professional athletes in every sports prove and showcase their skill through the game and by doing so entertain their fans. Since professional athletes do this for a living, competing in tournaments is a means to make money in order to sustain themselves. While money is an essential factor in a professional athlete’s life, it is the sincere competitive spirit that enables a mere athlete to become a professional athlete. This spirit entails the will to improve, work hard and try one's best no matter what. It also encompasses a mutual respect between those who share the title of professional athlete, which consequently leads to a certain code of professional conduct. It is this underlying competitive spirit, which goes beyond and is unrelated to any amount of prize money, of every professional athlete that touches and entertains many fans. We believe that the reason why so many people are such avid fans of baseball, soccer or e-sports has next to nothing to do with money. Korean e-sports fans generally share this understanding of the term 'professional athlete’ or in this case 'progamer', and might be less likely to tolerate a deviation from these core values compared to overseas communities.

A lot of people share the opinion that NaNiWa has not broken any rules and should therefore not receive any punishment.

It is true that NaNiWa has not taken actions that break any explicit rules, like for example using a cheat to gain an unfair advantage. NaNiWa has however purposefully not tried his best and shown this in a disrespectful manner. This was not only disappointing for his opponent NesTea and the GSL, but also for the many fans who had anticipated a great match. This behavior does not match with the definition of a progamer as laid out in the paragraph above.

We do however not doubt the sincerity of NaNiWa's competitive spirit. NaNiWa has come the long way to Korea just to compete in the GSL after all. We know very well how hard it is and the determination it takes to come to a foreign country and take the challenge to compete.

We want to make clear that NaNiWa will not be banned from the GSL for his actions. We will however revoke his candidacy for a Code S seed, which means that he will have to requalify for the GSL.


2. Doesn't that mean that the GSL is depriving NaNiWa of a Code S seed that he rightfully earned?

It seems like a lot of people have been under the impression that NaNiWa has received a Code S seed for taking 2nd place at MLG Providence. The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence.

We have introduced our new format for the 2012 GSL Tour a while ago, which includes changes to the way international seeds are being given out. Since we have not explained these changes to the seeds in detail yet, this misunderstanding seems to have arisen.

In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments. In 2011 the GSL schedule luckily matched very well with MLG's schedule. For this reason we were able to introduce a system that allowed high-placing players at MLG to compete in the following GSL season in a regular manner. In 2012 we will again do our best to provide a schedule that matches well with MLG and other international leagues. As the GSL format has changed and a season now lasts for significantly longer, it will this time however not be possible to perfectly match our schedule with MLG's. Apart from that we would also like to consider players of other remarkable tournaments and have therefore introduced this change to our international seeding system.

NaNiWa has been considered as one of the players to receive a Code S seed for the 2012 GSL Season 1 as a part of the this new seeding system due to his recent impressive results. Other players under consideration were IdrA (MLG Orlando 4th, IEM Guangzhou) and Sen (Blizzcon Battle.net Invitational 3rd) among others. During this phase of consideration aforementioned incident happened, which led us to the decision to remove NaNiWa from the top of the list of considered players. This is not to be seen as a direct punishment resulting from the incident, the incident did however understandably have an influence on NaNiWa's position on the list of candidates.

What we would like to ask from all of the GSL fans is to not simply see this incident as just a simple meaningless single game between NaNiWa and NesTea. The act of purposefully losing a match, whatever the underlying reasons may be, does always also have a psychological effect on the other players. By tolerating such behavior, purposefully losing might be deemed as a legitimate action and we might see more of such matches in the future, which is something that surely neither the fans nor the players would appreciate.

Both Korean as well as international fans are important to us. We hope that no one gets the wrong picture and believes that NaNiWa is being treated disadvantageously because he is a foreigner. On the contrary, if a Korean had been involved in a similar incident, it is possible that a much harsher reaction would have followed. It is also very likely that the player's team would have taken firm action before the GSL could have even reacted to it.

The GSL is a tournament that is open for fans and players from all over the world. We are lucky to live in the internet era, which allows us to easily connect and share our passions. At the same time, we have to live with the time difference and can experience an interesting mix but sometimes also clash of cultures. We would be very happy to be able to always satisfy everyone, but unfortunately that is not realistically possible. We would like everyone to know that we tried to make a fair decision to the best of our ability in this unfortunate situation.

We promise that we will work hard to provide tournament formats that will lead players to do their best in every match and to create a GSL that will allow fans to enjoy and experience the competition as something that has more to it than just professionals trying to make a living.

We wish NaNiWa all the best for his future endeavors as a progamer.

Thank you.
GOMTV.net

Original post: http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=212470&cid=0&kind=8



You have not addressed the following:

- Why Korean players never get punished for offensive or disrespectful behaviour
- Why Korean players never get punished for throwing games
- Why it is OK to insult Naniwai and not apologise for your disrespectful and incorrect statements about him

GOMTV is blatantly racist and clearly has double standards.



That is one of the stupidest shit i ever seen on tl so far
What do humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea.
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