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GOMTV Announcement regarding NaNiWa - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
2400 CommentsPost a Reply
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enecateReAP
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom378 Posts
December 14 2011 22:10 GMT
#201
You're all so childish, just live and let go, please.
You're causing a fuss over nothing and flaming a company that stuck their neck out for SCII and has done a SHIT TONNE to get the foreign community into korean esports, seriously, all of you, grow the fuck up insted of just spouting idiocy out of your mouths before even applying any foreknowledge at all...
"Stargate units imba" - oGsMC
pi_rate_pir_ate
Profile Joined April 2010
United States179 Posts
December 14 2011 22:10 GMT
#202
On December 15 2011 07:02 JinDesu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:00 Derity wrote:
so why idra and sen?
why not stephano? did you even talk to him?

GomTv really failed to make clear that MLG Providence didn't give a Code S seed.


I believe Stephano has made a point that he does not want to play in Korea (GSL)

Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:01 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote:
I have a question about the game NaNiWa played against Nestea.


Did he micro his probes or simply stop them by Nestea?


The reason that I ask this, is that if he tried to win with his probe rush, I fail to see the distinction between this and a discouraged player cheesing his way out of a tournament.


He did not. He a-moved. At least Nestea went mineral drill to surround the probes.



Thank you! I wish I could have watched the games. I'm still a little confused about whether he had already been awarded the Code S or whether it was "under consideration." If it had been awarded, then it is clearly a punishment and GomTV is lying. This would seem completely unnecessary, because obviously you can't have players deliberately throwing games because that would make match-fixing motive based rather than fact based. GomTV did mention this last point in their statement.

So my remaining question:

Had Code S been officially awarded to NaNiWa? Is there digital or hard proof of this fact?
Kazeyonoma
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2912 Posts
December 14 2011 22:11 GMT
#203
On December 15 2011 07:08 Flondra wrote:
Why didn't GOMTV clear up the misunderstanding with the Code S spot long time ago? Seems convenient that they let that "misunderstanding" flow through the community and only now clear it up.

Because Gom is supposed to address every rumor that flies around? Gom never publicly stated Naniwa was given a Code S, speculation did.
I now have autographs of both BoxeR and NaDa. I can die happy. Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yun Yeol FIGHTING forever!
Blacklizard
Profile Joined May 2007
United States1194 Posts
December 14 2011 22:11 GMT
#204
Too harsh. Korean opinion is one thing... but GOMTV is making tons of money from the Western world. Suddenly pulling a decision like this should not fly with those from the USA, and I assume other countries that value the individual above the group.
Xalorian
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada433 Posts
December 14 2011 22:11 GMT
#205
Again, it's the same story.

There is still a lot of bullshit in this.

NANIWA DID LOSE IS CODE S SPOT. He was not just a "candidate"... He himself knew that he would have the spot, we all knew it. It was on Gomtv and MLG... If it was an invite or the MLG/GSL exchange, who care? The point is because of what he did during Blizzard Cup (NOT GSL, BLIZZARD CUP!) he just lost is spot.

And, you can't punish someone for a rule that was not explicit and hope that the community will all be right with it. You warn him, and then you add a new rule, and it never happen again. Simple right?

I will ask for a refund for my GSL ticket, and will harass their sponsors about it... until Naniwa is back in Code S, by a seed or is own way through Code A... I will not follow GSL and will mail their sponsors and blizzard each freaking day until Naniwa got what he went to Korea for.

They have the right to do want they want since it's their tournament, but I have the right to be against such a harsh punishement.



decaf
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria1797 Posts
December 14 2011 22:11 GMT
#206
While money is an essential factor in a professional athlete’s life, it is the sincere competitive spirit that enables a mere athlete to become a professional athlete.

No, it's the fact that you receive money for playing the game that makes you a progamer - no matter how good you are or what your intentions are. Most of their reasoning is based on korean culture, but they forget that it's a global league.
Good statement from GOM, though.
m0ck
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
4194 Posts
December 14 2011 22:11 GMT
#207
On December 15 2011 07:05 farnham wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:04 Waxangel wrote:
Hihi: Your Official Announcement

Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL

At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:

Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.


What's up?

Even if that was true Gom is entitled to terminate the current contractual relationship with naniwa

But they've informed no-one of the change. Don't you think a player who is establishing himself in korea on the basis of competing in code S, with the spot that he won at MLG Providence, deserves to be informed that GOM have changed their rules and that he is no longer directly qualified? Should their business partner mlg be informed? Frankly, it makes no sense. If we are to believe GOM, they've fundamentally changed the system of qualification for their code S tournament, yet neglected to inform anyone (the player affected, his team, their american counter-part, the community) of the changes.
zakmaa
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada525 Posts
December 14 2011 22:11 GMT
#208
On December 15 2011 06:43 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
We want to make clear that NaNiWa will not be banned from the GSL for his actions. We will however revoke his candidacy for a Code S seed, which means that he will have to requalify for the GSL.


Does this mean for all code S events or just GSL 2012 Season 1 Code S?


What it means is that NaNiwa will have to re-qualify through GSL. If he gets through Prelims into Up/Down then gets far into Up/Down he can still get into Jan Code S, AFAIK.
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
December 14 2011 22:11 GMT
#209
On December 15 2011 07:07 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:03 Tyrant0 wrote:
On December 15 2011 06:59 Velr wrote:
On December 15 2011 06:56 Tyrant0 wrote:
On December 15 2011 06:52 Velr wrote:
On December 15 2011 06:50 Tyrant0 wrote:
On December 15 2011 06:47 Velr wrote:
On December 15 2011 06:43 Gin-san wrote:
That's actually a pretty lame response, just like i expected it. They think they're 100% correct and only blame NaNiwa. Hopefully Blizzard won't give the next SC2 contract to you but to KeSPA.



That is probably because factually they are 100% correct.


Having a "pointless" game in the tournament is not "good" but is not part of the issue. Naniwas unprofessional behaviour is.


And Naniwa takes 100% of the heat and GOMtv none. Naniwa is the villain who should apologize and have his balls clipped. All this did is further empower GOM as a league above all of SC2 esports, intentional or not, and fans/players are willing to sit back and take it.



GOM IS NOT AT FAULT.

Bitch all you want, but GOM IS NOT AT FAULT.

Thats why Naniwa/Quantic made an excuse and GOM is only writing an explanation.

GOM IS NOT AT FAULT.


Also: The punishment isn't really "hard".. A Korean probably would get a livetime ban for doing something like this...


GOM had no rules against it. They had inconsequential matches. This NEVER happened in GSL, because when a match goes 2-0 you don't play the third. The one time it did happen it was blatant match fixing and punished. They hyped the drama towards Naniwa. Naniwa/Quantic are making an excuse because they'll probably never fight with a league to save face with PR, but the fans aren't reserved to that luxury.

And I probably wouldn't agree with any punishment a Korean might have received.


Losing a match on purpose is against everything any competetive sport is, let alone a professional sport. He even got paid to play this match.
If you need a written rule against matchfixing/dropping, i'm sorry for you.


No logical competitor would lose a match on purpose unless it didn't count for anything. Besides, Mr Chae doesn't care about competition. You can throw a match as long as it's entertaining; it perfectly fits his twisted definition of a pro gamer that completely encapsulates GOM's financial incentive as a business.


See.. For GOM and tons of other people this match counted for something.

And yes, it is a business, what do you think were all the money comes from? What Naniwa did is the one thing a professional player should never do, regardless of which sport and he got punished for it.

I'm out... Staggering how many people don't "get" the problem with Naniwas action...


And you're basically facilitating that players throwing games less transparently through 4gates/6gates/2raxSCV is a better alternative. It's amazing how much people are willing to accept GOM taking so much power for themselves. It's staggering how many people like you think everyone wanted Naniwa to throw a game. Of course what he fucking did was wrong. It doesn't mean GOM's response isn't an over the fucking top reaction.
mtn
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
729 Posts
December 14 2011 22:11 GMT
#210
On December 15 2011 07:08 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:06 Jackle wrote:
On December 15 2011 07:04 Waxangel wrote:
Hihi: Your Official Announcement

Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL

At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:

Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.


What's up?


Hihi: Source:


MLG is honored to announce a true game-changer for the world of competitive StarCraft 2. Beginning at MLG Columbus and continuing throughout the 2011 Season, Major League Gaming and the GOMTV Global StarCraft 2 League are establishing a League Exchange Program that will send the best MLG players to compete in the GSL, and allow top Korean talent to play live in the US.


Where were the 4 Korean invites to MLG Providence?


I love creative wording :D



User was warned for this post
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 22:13:35
December 14 2011 22:12 GMT
#211
On December 15 2011 06:52 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 06:50 Tyrant0 wrote:
On December 15 2011 06:47 Velr wrote:
On December 15 2011 06:43 Gin-san wrote:
That's actually a pretty lame response, just like i expected it. They think they're 100% correct and only blame NaNiwa. Hopefully Blizzard won't give the next SC2 contract to you but to KeSPA.



That is probably because factually they are 100% correct.


Having a "pointless" game in the tournament is not "good" but is not part of the issue. Naniwas unprofessional behaviour is.


And Naniwa takes 100% of the heat and GOMtv none. Naniwa is the villain who should apologize and have his balls clipped. All this did is further empower GOM as a league above all of SC2 esports, intentional or not, and fans/players are willing to sit back and take it.



GOM IS NOT AT FAULT.

Bitch all you want, but GOM IS NOT AT FAULT.

Thats why Naniwa/Quantic made an excuse and GOM is only writing an explanation.

GOM IS NOT AT FAULT.


Also: The punishment isn't really "hard".. A Korean probably would get a livetime ban for doing something like this...


Where did Naniwa and Quantic make an excuse? Excuse me.

._. It was a formal apology and nowhere did I read any excuse.

They owned up to it.
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
December 14 2011 22:12 GMT
#212
On December 15 2011 07:04 Waxangel wrote:
Hihi: Your Official Announcement

Show nested quote +
Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL

At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:

Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.


What's up?

Yeah, how does GOM explain this?
farnham
Profile Joined January 2011
1378 Posts
December 14 2011 22:12 GMT
#213
On December 15 2011 07:11 Blacklizard wrote:
Too harsh. Korean opinion is one thing... but GOMTV is making tons of money from the Western world. Suddenly pulling a decision like this should not fly with those from the USA, and I assume other countries that value the individual above the group.

if you breach contractual obligations in the USA you will have to reimburse damages and you might get your current contract terminated same with europe.
SC2NeCro
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada507 Posts
December 14 2011 22:12 GMT
#214
On December 15 2011 07:10 101998 wrote:
Thanks for making my decision not to ever watch a GOM event again easy. I was going back and forth on it but this post seals the deal.

Also, I love how in GSL October Up and Down group C you didn't have the last two matches played because they wouldn't have effected the result but you go ahead and have Naniwa and Nestea play under the same situtation. GOM showing who the true joke trounament is.


Oh wow, the truth comes out to light. This is extremely hypocritical.
Fav Terran: forGG, aLive, Jinro ||| Fav Zerg: Moon, TLO, DRG ||| Fav Protoss: Genius, Grubby, ToD
Baalthersar
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany239 Posts
December 14 2011 22:12 GMT
#215
I find the whole discussion very ... interesting, especially the posts by a lot of people in this threat and others.
Sure he is not employed by GOM/GSL he is more like a contractor. By entering the tournament he agreed to compete/ deliver. He didn't and in a very "in your face, i don't care about you because it doesn't concern me and I will not get anything out of it" style. By that he forced a response out of Gom/GSL, because it was a scheduled and broadcastet match. It was hyped by various sources, his new team nontheless. Sure he thought it was no big deal, but try to see the bigger picture, not just his perspective.
It is a business world. Sponsers of teams and leagues might get the wrong picture (he is unprofessional, and to some degree sc2 is unprofessional). He made the tournament, the organisation and his team look bad. Depending on the reaction to this event potential sponsors might say, "we don't invest in something that tolerates such behavior". Existing sponsors might cut on their future investment in sc2 and so on. In addition he pissed of a lot of koreans, which are the maine source of income for GOM/GSL, viewer numbers might drop which is the main reason why korean companies or branches might invest in GOM/GSL.
So he forces GOM/GSL to act and to keep their face. Especially because this isn't a small online tournament. It is abig one. With big numbers, big prizes at a prime time of the year. The best of the best in sc2.
I don't know what happend between him and the GOM/GSL employees on a personal level, but it seems they wanted him to play the game, period. He did his probe rush. Which to some degree isn't the real issue, the issue it seems is the way he performed it. he moved and GG'd.
that is not work perfomance you want in a contractor. If you hire somebody to build you a house and he just put up 4 walls and a roof you would be pissed. He might argue it is a house because there are 4 walls and roof, you still might want to argue that no door, no interior walls, no attic or cellar and no windows is straight up not a house you want.You didn't want a castle but the product in the end is just crap. As reaction the first thing you do is blacklist the guy at least for yourself and make sure that you don't work with him anymore. And this is just an example I know sc is not about building houses, but I think my point is clear.

To all saying "it didn't matter, it was a pointless, it shouldn't have been played/broadcasted, best of one's are just stupid". Wrong. Because he knew the tournament format. He knew that GOM/GSL wanted him to play and he still did not deliver even the illusion of playing competitively. Nobody expected that he pulled out his absolute best, but he failed at showing that he has the work ethic to compete in this kind of enviroment. That wasn't even 70% effotr or 50, that was plain 0%.

The logical reaction is to cut him, atleast for a period of time. Until he proves that he can actually be professional.

I'm not saying that harsh words are the way to go, but business wise it is the only real option. Not because he is a bad player, which he is not. e had three good games in this tounament but he showed he is not reliabel to see things through, to the end.

And what is whith all that "boycott the GSL/GOM, it's a conspiracy, they only do this because they don't like them, theare a bunch of racists". That is just infantile and has nothing to do with the real world. He made a mistake and has to pay the price. In the real worls if you screw up you have to life with the consequences and he is real lucky if not getting the code s seat is the only backlash of this incident.
A slap on the wrist is not enough for these cirmustances.

Please people grow up.
Swiv
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany3674 Posts
December 14 2011 22:12 GMT
#216
On December 15 2011 07:08 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:07 Swiv wrote:
On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote:
Not only progamers, but professional athletes in every sports prove and showcase their skill through the game and by doing so entertain their fans.

Original post: http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=212470&cid=0&kind=8

EURO League Football, this evening, big deal millions of people are watching. Haifa - Schalke 04. Schalke was already through the group phase as 1st, Haifa fought for their spot for the next rount or being completely eliminated from the tournament (lol wtf is losers bracket?!). Schalke conserved a LOT of good players including Farfan, Huntelaar and even Raul. no one really complains. just something to think about... and those situations happen again and again for "profootballers".


This is not nearly the same and if you don't see why you might should see a doctor or a person with a working brain.

you might want to elaborate your foul accusation instead of just accusing?
[_] Terran [_] Zerg [_] Protoss [X] Random ------- Fantasy - hyvaa - sOs
diophan
Profile Joined September 2011
United States1018 Posts
December 14 2011 22:12 GMT
#217
On December 15 2011 07:10 101998 wrote:
Thanks for making my decision not to ever watch a GOM event again easy. I was going back and forth on it but this post seals the deal.

Also, I love how in GSL October Up and Down group C you didn't have the last two matches played because they wouldn't have effected the result but you go ahead and have Naniwa and Nestea play under the same situtation. GOM showing who the true joke trounament is.


Sorry GOM tried to provide an entertaining format to the viewers by having all these amazing matches played
KAkos MAgos
Profile Joined July 2011
Greece47 Posts
December 14 2011 22:12 GMT
#218
ok here i got a question. why idra and sen ? i mean puma, stephano are better in results then the one GSL has chosen. why not take them ? or some other european guys ?
pi_rate_pir_ate
Profile Joined April 2010
United States179 Posts
December 14 2011 22:12 GMT
#219
On December 15 2011 07:10 enecateReAP wrote:
You're all so childish, just live and let go, please.
You're causing a fuss over nothing and flaming a company that stuck their neck out for SCII and has done a SHIT TONNE to get the foreign community into korean esports, seriously, all of you, grow the fuck up insted of just spouting idiocy out of your mouths before even applying any foreknowledge at all...



No, that is an insane policy for response to possible corporate corruption. It isn't childish to consider whether someone has done something harmful to another person. This is precisely what GomTV has done to NaNiWa, and now they are in the court of public opinion. There is no reason that they shouldn't bear up under critical analysis if they have acted properly.
taLbuk
Profile Joined April 2010
Madagascar1879 Posts
December 14 2011 22:12 GMT
#220
On December 15 2011 07:11 Kazeyonoma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 07:08 Flondra wrote:
Why didn't GOMTV clear up the misunderstanding with the Code S spot long time ago? Seems convenient that they let that "misunderstanding" flow through the community and only now clear it up.

Because Gom is supposed to address every rumor that flies around? Gom never publicly stated Naniwa was given a Code S, speculation did.


Are you kidding? It was plastered everywhere that the MLG providence winner gets a Code S seed, and since Leenock was already Code S that it gets awarded to the next highest finishing non-korean resident. Sure Gom never officially said he got a seed but they led MLG to believe which led us all to believe.
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