On December 16 2011 11:44 MadeOfBalls wrote: You. Are. Totally. Fucking. Clueless.
Are you kidding me and any pro player/competitor with this shit? Capitalist world producing plants like yourself is just something, I tell you. I don't usually write anything on the kidboards, preferring to take a neutral stance, but sometimes, braindeads like you just make me.
Competitions exist only because there are people willing to compete. Fans and companies making money off of that is a "side effect" of a sort. Damn it kid, go read some history fucking books at least if you don't believe me! Players AREN'T CLOWNS. If you need excitement go to a circus. Players are competing AMONG THEMSELVES, not for you and not for GOM. Maybe staged shit WWE or Superbowl does this for the fans. True competition does not. GOM wouldn't exist if players didn't play. And you'd have nothing to watch. It just so happens that the current world revolves around money, thus it's kind of natural for the people who have more of them (organisations) to make others who have less (players) bend to their rules.
Think about it, hypothetically, if tomorrow a guy arises with shitload of money and says "Here. I'm ready to give away a mil a month, I don't give a shit if u please fans, do what you want. My only condition is that you dump other leagues". Do you really think that players would continue to stick to something that offers less, makes a living off them, and wrongs them left and right? There you go, your capitalist image - dead. Ofc this is kinda exaggerated and a bit silly and you're free to flame me off it, but the point here is clear I think.
Why, hello there. You are indeed made of balls and not brains... and you seem to be just as unable to control your emotions as Naniwa was after going 0-3. You are right, competitions do exist because people are willing to compete, but people are willing to compete only after there is something available to compete for (e.g. mulah). The reasons the Koreans were better than foreigners at BW is because they had more to play for (i.e. there was more money being dumped by fans and sponsors into Korean BW...). Wake up and smell the coffee bro... "I'mma tell you like Wu told me; cash rules everything around me."
If it wasn't for the money being dumped into E-Sports, competition wouldn't exist. Players would need to get another job if there weren't people willing to pay to watch them play. Don't turn this into an Occupy TL movement and use your head, please.
Read below for another intelligent opinion on your ridiculous viewpoint:
On December 16 2011 11:50 Chaggi wrote: You are a moron. Of course it's the competition between the players. But they wouldn't even be in that position without the fans. It's the fans who give the ability to produce something like MLG, GSL, Dreamhack, etc. It's pretty fucking obvious you don't understand what GOM was getting at.
You are a moron. Of course it's the competition between the players. But they wouldn't even be in that position without the fans. It's the fans who give the ability to produce something like MLG, GSL, Dreamhack, etc. It's pretty fucking obvious you don't understand what GOM was getting at.
Sorry, you guys are all alike to me, so mind if I just call everyone with a retard statement "kid"? Fine. GOM was getting at the point that if you fail to deliver to the fans, they are free to remove you. That's all they were getting at.
Now.
Do you understand that by mixing up spirit of competition with commerce you totally fail? Competitions and competitors WILL keep existing even if there are NO MONEY involved. On the other hand, if there are no competitions, there will be no stupid fanbois like you and no "mighty" companies like GRETECH.
Yeah sports is all about manner this and manner that. If esports is gonna be super manner ala korean style then whats the point. There will be no passion, no rivalries, no history.
This is what you get if you add passion and let fans be fans and players be players:
Napli fans getting of the train in rome for the match against Roma.
This is complete crap. It seems pretty obvious to me they decided to revoke Naniwa's seed first and then went around trying to justify it however they could. Not cool, especially since it hurts the legitimacy of MLG's reward system in a big way. Basically sets the precedent that GOM can take away your Code S seed just because they want to.
On December 16 2011 12:03 MadeOfBalls wrote: Do you understand that by mixing up spirit of competition with commerce you totally fail? Competitions and competitors WILL keep existing even if there are NO MONEY involved. On the other hand, if there are no competitions, there will be no stupid fanbois like you and no "mighty" companies like GRETECH.
If you find a magical island where everyone devotes their lives to sports and esports without any monetary compensation, enjoy your stay there. The rest of us will attempt to live in the real world where professional gamers and athletes do what they do, in part, because it lets them support themselves.
On December 16 2011 12:05 MadeOfBalls wrote: I understand now where retardation is coming from.
People SERIOUSLY think that competitions exist because some guys give other guys money.
))))))))))) Rite.
I think this may be too hard for you but I'm gonna say it anyways
Competition doesn't exist because of money. However, competition in the form of GSL, Dreamhack, MLG, these EVENTS, exist because of money. This level of competition exists because of fans. No one, will put their time into a sport, electronic or otherwise simply cause they want to compete for the sake of competing. I'm not sure how you don't grasp this basic concept.
So if Naniwa doesn't want to compete on a LIVE, televised game in front of thousands of fans watching from all over the world, throwing the game like he did, then the GSL has a right to not let him participate in their competition in which the values of playing great games with your best effort is valued.
Let him be... I don't think we can convince him otherwise. His innocent and childish view of the world is rather interesting anyway. I didn't realize people that thoughtless and ignorant still existed. But even I am wrong... sometimes.
On December 16 2011 12:31 Kahuna. wrote: Let him be... I don't think we can convince him otherwise. His innocent and childish view of the world is rather interesting anyway. I didn't realize people that thoughtless and ignorant still existed. But even I am wrong... sometimes.
I think he doesn't really understand. I'm not sure though.
On December 16 2011 12:31 Kahuna. wrote: Let him be... I don't think we can convince him otherwise. His innocent and childish view of the world is rather interesting anyway. I didn't realize people that thoughtless and ignorant still existed. But even I am wrong... sometimes.
I think he doesn't really understand. I'm not sure though.
Lol. You are more optimistic for him than I am. Hopefully he's just a 15 year old kid who is still figuring out how the world works.
On December 16 2011 12:03 MadeOfBalls wrote: Do you understand that by mixing up spirit of competition with commerce you totally fail? Competitions and competitors WILL keep existing even if there are NO MONEY involved. On the other hand, if there are no competitions, there will be no stupid fanbois like you and no "mighty" companies like GRETECH.
If you find a magical island where everyone devotes their lives to sports and esports without any monetary compensation, enjoy your stay there. The rest of us will attempt to live in the real world where professional gamers and athletes do what they do, in part, because it lets them support themselves.
I found one that kind of works like that. It's actually a peninsula though.
You have to understand that E-SPORTS in Korea is actually closer to real sports. Does Lebron want to play for whoever can give him the most money? Nah, he wants a ring.
Obviously GSL isn't as advanced as American sports. There's no salary cap, etc. However, they consider this to be sports like and things like the Naniwa v Nestea match will be talked about and even gambled on as per their culture.
If you throw a game, you must expect consequences.
GomTV made a very smart business move by punishing naniwa. There was a couple bucks in streaming to gain from international streams. However, their entire business (GOMTV as a company) will be ripped apart by competition if they allowed this kind of stuff to go on in their Starcraft tournament.
They may even be wishing they left SC2 to die on the vine instead of build this infrastructure. I'll be the first to say that many pro players would be worse than random master leagues (or even diamond leagues) if it wasn't for GOMTV. They showcased great play and some people who were "pros" that made good showings in MLG in the earlier seasons aren't even above mid-masters today.
They invested a real lot into this, to bring E-SPORTS (I'll make the Korean idea in caps, E-SPORTS in Korea is a bit different from the e-sports we enjoy) as entertainment. They risked their public image in Korea, their primary consumer (GOM doesn't only do starcraft, you know). They might not have considered the risk possible (they don't have the understanding on naniwa we do), but they took it.
It blew up on them into a massive Korean PR nightmare. There's no way out of this for them. Remember when Steven Colbert asked the question "George Bush, good president or the greatest president?" This is exactly the situation now.
The people trying to lynch GOM are on the brink of annihilating foreign e-sports. E-SPORTS in Korea will always remain, as it's a cultural pastime, gambled upon, and talked about.
In the US, stuff like competitive LoL and Halo don't really make that much money. They mainly bring in money through "HD stream sales and tickets." We are not Korea. After mass interest fads cool, we won't have an anchor for competitive video games.
What GOM might be doing may look unjust, but it's no different from one of any 37052572752052 American companies doing necessary but unsavory acts. It's a necessity of business, Naniwa didn't comprehend that and got screwed over it. Stuff happens, get over it.
Why does GSL have to support MLG? of course GSL can do whatever the hell they want and give the seed to whoever they want. What they want to do is to promote esport, which might not be possible if they allow any show of non-professionalism like such demonstrated by Naniwa in the particular incident (I totally believe he learned from this mistake by the way, he's a great player/guy). Sen and Idra are simply better show of sportsmanship and demonstrate the kind of spirit GSL is looking for. Naniwa isn't banned from GSL in any way, he just didn't get that seed into code S. I think this approach from GSL is great for esports as a whole and I believe that even Naniwa would accept and understand the thinking behind the decision(based on his own post on what happened).
On December 16 2011 12:03 MadeOfBalls wrote: Do you understand that by mixing up spirit of competition with commerce you totally fail? Competitions and competitors WILL keep existing even if there are NO MONEY involved. On the other hand, if there are no competitions, there will be no stupid fanbois like you and no "mighty" companies like GRETECH.
If you find a magical island where everyone devotes their lives to sports and esports without any monetary compensation, enjoy your stay there. The rest of us will attempt to live in the real world where professional gamers and athletes do what they do, in part, because it lets them support themselves.
I found one that kind of works like that. It's actually a peninsula though.
You have to understand that E-SPORTS in Korea is actually closer to real sports. Does Lebron want to play for whoever can give him the most money? Nah, he wants a ring.
Obviously GSL isn't as advanced as American sports. There's no salary cap, etc. However, they consider this to be sports like and things like the Naniwa v Nestea match will be talked about and even gambled on as per their culture.
If you throw a game, you must expect consequences.
GomTV made a very smart business move by punishing naniwa. There was a couple bucks in streaming to gain from international streams. However, their entire business (GOMTV as a company) will be ripped apart by competition if they allowed this kind of stuff to go on in their Starcraft tournament.
They may even be wishing they left SC2 to die on the vine instead of build this infrastructure. I'll be the first to say that many pro players would be worse than random master leagues (or even diamond leagues) if it wasn't for GOMTV. They showcased great play and some people who were "pros" that made good showings in MLG in the earlier seasons aren't even above mid-masters today.
They invested a real lot into this, to bring E-SPORTS (I'll make the Korean idea in caps, E-SPORTS in Korea is a bit different from the e-sports we enjoy) as entertainment. They risked their public image in Korea, their primary consumer (GOM doesn't only do starcraft, you know). They might not have considered the risk possible (they don't have the understanding on naniwa we do), but they took it.
It blew up on them into a massive Korean PR nightmare. There's no way out of this for them. Remember when Steven Colbert asked the question "George Bush, good president or the greatest president?" This is exactly the situation now.
The people trying to lynch GOM are on the brink of annihilating foreign e-sports. E-SPORTS in Korea will always remain, as it's a cultural pastime, gambled upon, and talked about.
In the US, stuff like competitive LoL and Halo don't really make that much money. They mainly bring in money through "HD stream sales and tickets." We are not Korea. After mass interest fads cool, we won't have an anchor for competitive video games.
What GOM might be doing may look unjust, but it's no different from one of any 37052572752052 American companies doing necessary but unsavory acts. It's a necessity of business, Naniwa didn't comprehend that and got screwed over it. Stuff happens, get over it.
Actually they removed one of their more popular and noteworthy contestants, it was most certainly a bad business move.
On December 16 2011 12:03 MadeOfBalls wrote: Do you understand that by mixing up spirit of competition with commerce you totally fail? Competitions and competitors WILL keep existing even if there are NO MONEY involved. On the other hand, if there are no competitions, there will be no stupid fanbois like you and no "mighty" companies like GRETECH.
If you find a magical island where everyone devotes their lives to sports and esports without any monetary compensation, enjoy your stay there. The rest of us will attempt to live in the real world where professional gamers and athletes do what they do, in part, because it lets them support themselves.
I found one that kind of works like that. It's actually a peninsula though.
You have to understand that E-SPORTS in Korea is actually closer to real sports. Does Lebron want to play for whoever can give him the most money? Nah, he wants a ring.
Obviously GSL isn't as advanced as American sports. There's no salary cap, etc. However, they consider this to be sports like and things like the Naniwa v Nestea match will be talked about and even gambled on as per their culture.
If you throw a game, you must expect consequences.
GomTV made a very smart business move by punishing naniwa. There was a couple bucks in streaming to gain from international streams. However, their entire business (GOMTV as a company) will be ripped apart by competition if they allowed this kind of stuff to go on in their Starcraft tournament.
They may even be wishing they left SC2 to die on the vine instead of build this infrastructure. I'll be the first to say that many pro players would be worse than random master leagues (or even diamond leagues) if it wasn't for GOMTV. They showcased great play and some people who were "pros" that made good showings in MLG in the earlier seasons aren't even above mid-masters today.
They invested a real lot into this, to bring E-SPORTS (I'll make the Korean idea in caps, E-SPORTS in Korea is a bit different from the e-sports we enjoy) as entertainment. They risked their public image in Korea, their primary consumer (GOM doesn't only do starcraft, you know). They might not have considered the risk possible (they don't have the understanding on naniwa we do), but they took it.
It blew up on them into a massive Korean PR nightmare. There's no way out of this for them. Remember when Steven Colbert asked the question "George Bush, good president or the greatest president?" This is exactly the situation now.
The people trying to lynch GOM are on the brink of annihilating foreign e-sports. E-SPORTS in Korea will always remain, as it's a cultural pastime, gambled upon, and talked about.
In the US, stuff like competitive LoL and Halo don't really make that much money. They mainly bring in money through "HD stream sales and tickets." We are not Korea. After mass interest fads cool, we won't have an anchor for competitive video games.
What GOM might be doing may look unjust, but it's no different from one of any 37052572752052 American companies doing necessary but unsavory acts. It's a necessity of business, Naniwa didn't comprehend that and got screwed over it. Stuff happens, get over it.
Actually they removed one of their more popular and noteworthy contestants, it was most certainly a bad business move.
GOMTV isn't just a Starcraft broadcasting corp. Remember what happened after the match fixing scandal? The TV ratings plummeted. <---That's a general example, not saying GOM was the only one who suffered or even suffered the heaviest damage.
Read the rest of the thread, I covered why it was a smart decision, pal.
On December 16 2011 12:03 MadeOfBalls wrote: Do you understand that by mixing up spirit of competition with commerce you totally fail? Competitions and competitors WILL keep existing even if there are NO MONEY involved. On the other hand, if there are no competitions, there will be no stupid fanbois like you and no "mighty" companies like GRETECH.
If you find a magical island where everyone devotes their lives to sports and esports without any monetary compensation, enjoy your stay there. The rest of us will attempt to live in the real world where professional gamers and athletes do what they do, in part, because it lets them support themselves.
I found one that kind of works like that. It's actually a peninsula though.
You have to understand that E-SPORTS in Korea is actually closer to real sports. Does Lebron want to play for whoever can give him the most money? Nah, he wants a ring.
Obviously GSL isn't as advanced as American sports. There's no salary cap, etc. However, they consider this to be sports like and things like the Naniwa v Nestea match will be talked about and even gambled on as per their culture.
If you throw a game, you must expect consequences.
GomTV made a very smart business move by punishing naniwa. There was a couple bucks in streaming to gain from international streams. However, their entire business (GOMTV as a company) will be ripped apart by competition if they allowed this kind of stuff to go on in their Starcraft tournament.
They may even be wishing they left SC2 to die on the vine instead of build this infrastructure. I'll be the first to say that many pro players would be worse than random master leagues (or even diamond leagues) if it wasn't for GOMTV. They showcased great play and some people who were "pros" that made good showings in MLG in the earlier seasons aren't even above mid-masters today.
They invested a real lot into this, to bring E-SPORTS (I'll make the Korean idea in caps, E-SPORTS in Korea is a bit different from the e-sports we enjoy) as entertainment. They risked their public image in Korea, their primary consumer (GOM doesn't only do starcraft, you know). They might not have considered the risk possible (they don't have the understanding on naniwa we do), but they took it.
It blew up on them into a massive Korean PR nightmare. There's no way out of this for them. Remember when Steven Colbert asked the question "George Bush, good president or the greatest president?" This is exactly the situation now.
The people trying to lynch GOM are on the brink of annihilating foreign e-sports. E-SPORTS in Korea will always remain, as it's a cultural pastime, gambled upon, and talked about.
In the US, stuff like competitive LoL and Halo don't really make that much money. They mainly bring in money through "HD stream sales and tickets." We are not Korea. After mass interest fads cool, we won't have an anchor for competitive video games.
What GOM might be doing may look unjust, but it's no different from one of any 37052572752052 American companies doing necessary but unsavory acts. It's a necessity of business, Naniwa didn't comprehend that and got screwed over it. Stuff happens, get over it.
Actually they removed one of their more popular and noteworthy contestants, it was most certainly a bad business move.
Except not really. Naniwa is a very popular foreign player, a very good foreign player. But how many people that watch GSL are gonna say they watch it for the foreigners. How many of those are paying customers? GOMTV did a good thing in protecting what their league stands for.
I was on GOMs side before this statement.You cannot always make up rules that foresee every future possibility and therefore GOM should reserve the right to punish players for immoral acts.
Of course you have to be vary of double agendas but in this case Naniwas punishment was an obvious direct result of him throwing a game. His spot should simply have been given to the player next in line at MLG Providence (in this case HuK).
Then comes the announcement:
"We retroactively announce format changes to the GSL-MLG exchange program. We hope everyone who reads this acknowledges that our decision against Naniwa is no longer technically a direct punishment. Oopsie, by utilizing this hacks we happened to render ourselves immune to criticism!
Let's use some special tactics to further smooth things over and address your concerns over a foreigner-less Code S: In exchange for Naniwa we offer you foreigner replacements Idra and Sen. Yes thats right! Its a TWO-for-the-price-of-ONE deal! Surely we have bought your satisfaction now!?"
On December 16 2011 09:08 AxelTVx wrote: Seriously, to the people simply posting "you just lost a customer", stfu. You left, great, GOM doesn'rt give a shit. Do you know why? You're going to be back in a week to a month. Dont try to deny this. You aren't going to give up top quality games for this bullshit. Do us all a favour and stop posting this bs. We'll see you in a month.
You really think that GOM wouldn't care about losing customers, and therefore money? What the fuck is wrong with you? And i payed and watched the first 4 seasons of GSL, then disagreed with some of the changes they made and haven't purchased a tickey since. Still you're stating that everyone is addicted to their production. You cannot state that.
Blah blah blah, leagues have total control how they run things. That's why they can kick people out, blacklist them, ban them. Don't like it? Well, don't watch. Just don't go around trying to convince everyone else to not watch. You want to know why? Because you're being like that guy who walks around trying to sell shit to people who don't need it or want it. In other words, you're god damn annoying.
This isn't about ethics. The world isn't remotely close to the perfect sprit of competition and fairness. Just read a newspaper and you'll see. Don't understand that shit? Then you don't understand what's happening here.
On December 16 2011 12:03 MadeOfBalls wrote: Do you understand that by mixing up spirit of competition with commerce you totally fail? Competitions and competitors WILL keep existing even if there are NO MONEY involved. On the other hand, if there are no competitions, there will be no stupid fanbois like you and no "mighty" companies like GRETECH.
If you find a magical island where everyone devotes their lives to sports and esports without any monetary compensation, enjoy your stay there. The rest of us will attempt to live in the real world where professional gamers and athletes do what they do, in part, because it lets them support themselves.
I found one that kind of works like that. It's actually a peninsula though.
You have to understand that E-SPORTS in Korea is actually closer to real sports. Does Lebron want to play for whoever can give him the most money? Nah, he wants a ring.
Obviously GSL isn't as advanced as American sports. There's no salary cap, etc. However, they consider this to be sports like and things like the Naniwa v Nestea match will be talked about and even gambled on as per their culture.
If you throw a game, you must expect consequences.
GomTV made a very smart business move by punishing naniwa. There was a couple bucks in streaming to gain from international streams. However, their entire business (GOMTV as a company) will be ripped apart by competition if they allowed this kind of stuff to go on in their Starcraft tournament.
They may even be wishing they left SC2 to die on the vine instead of build this infrastructure. I'll be the first to say that many pro players would be worse than random master leagues (or even diamond leagues) if it wasn't for GOMTV. They showcased great play and some people who were "pros" that made good showings in MLG in the earlier seasons aren't even above mid-masters today.
They invested a real lot into this, to bring E-SPORTS (I'll make the Korean idea in caps, E-SPORTS in Korea is a bit different from the e-sports we enjoy) as entertainment. They risked their public image in Korea, their primary consumer (GOM doesn't only do starcraft, you know). They might not have considered the risk possible (they don't have the understanding on naniwa we do), but they took it.
It blew up on them into a massive Korean PR nightmare. There's no way out of this for them. Remember when Steven Colbert asked the question "George Bush, good president or the greatest president?" This is exactly the situation now.
The people trying to lynch GOM are on the brink of annihilating foreign e-sports. E-SPORTS in Korea will always remain, as it's a cultural pastime, gambled upon, and talked about.
In the US, stuff like competitive LoL and Halo don't really make that much money. They mainly bring in money through "HD stream sales and tickets." We are not Korea. After mass interest fads cool, we won't have an anchor for competitive video games.
What GOM might be doing may look unjust, but it's no different from one of any 37052572752052 American companies doing necessary but unsavory acts. It's a necessity of business, Naniwa didn't comprehend that and got screwed over it. Stuff happens, get over it.
Actually they removed one of their more popular and noteworthy contestants, it was most certainly a bad business move.
And then they replaced him with an even more popular and noteworthy contestant
EPT
))))))))))) Rite.
Hopefully he's just a 15 year old kid who is still figuring out how the world works.
