|
Please discuss IdrA and Sen in Code S January in this thread. |
You know, its not like "handout places" are rare in sports. The Tour de France invites two wildcard teams every year, the Olympics invites athletes from small and/or poor countries in nearly every sport using the "tripartite invitation" scheme, Tennis tournaments all have wild-card spots, the PGA has sponsor exemptions, et cetera. Like them or hate them, wild card spots are common, even for events that are way more prestigious and way harder to get in than the GSL.
|
On December 15 2011 04:04 Hnnngg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:58 Mordiford wrote:On December 15 2011 03:55 Hnnngg wrote:On December 15 2011 03:53 Mordiford wrote:On December 15 2011 03:50 twndomn wrote:On December 15 2011 03:42 uSnAmplified wrote:
Glad i stopped paying money to watch a video game popularity contest. Naniwas hurting foreigners? i think being babied and given hand out code S spots is ruining the integrity of GOM more then then losing a meaningless match that should have never been played. There are plenty of Idra fans who would gladly pay for subscriptions to replace your place. Besides, GOM and Koreans have the east Asian culture that stresses respect, status quo, and professionalism. That kind of value is something Western culture has failed to understand. Therefore, it's not a meaningless match, ask any football fans in the US who support teams that have already failed to make the playoff. As to your "free hand out" assessment, why don't you look at Sen's resume? You should get a BlizzCon 3rd place finish, NASL season 1, and NASL season 2 3rd place finishes before you ask for your free-to-code S-pass. Stop being overly simplistic. Maybe HerO should ask for his free-to-Code-S-pass then, he's had a Dreamhack win and an NASL 2nd place finish over Sen's third. Code S shouldn't be a hand-out to foreigners, if that's the way GOM wishes to conduct their business that's fine but it genuinely diminishes the value of being Code S if it's given to a foreigner just for performing well abroad. Plenty of non-Code S Koreans manage to do well in foreign tournaments. Good Koreans are a dime a dozen. If Idra/Sen aren't good enough for Code S, they'll lose and get knocked out. Or they are good enough, they'll win enough to stay in and everything will continue. So because there are more good Korean players we should give handouts to foreign players? I'm sorry if I don't agree with that at all. On a tournament at the level of Code S, you should not be penalized for your nationality. So there are dozens of players that are potentially better than the invites, but because they're Korean, they should be neglected? I don't think that's fair at all. They aren't being penalized. They can win and get invited to Code S. Potentially better is just potentially, Idra/Sen are two of the best invites. And as myeg.net confirmed, Idra didn't ask for his Code S spot back and was going to compete in the Up/Downs. But GOMtv wanted him in Code S, for reasons many could speculate on. Hero has never been in Code S, despite trying nearly every season. I don't think he should get a pass because he wins a tournament outside of GSL when he tries every season. The people who get invited don't try to qualify and fail, they also don't try to qualify because qualifying for GSL while being a foreigner and not living in SKorea is practically impossible. And we can't expect foreigner to go live in SKorea indefinitely just to try for GSL, it's a strain on the players and on the teams.
They can win in the extremely tough code A/B while the foreign players get to breeze through what is considered the hardest qualifier in SC2. Sounds like the koreans are getting shafted here. Why not hold a mini tournament at least with top code A players and Idra+Sen for the code S spots.
This is all about marketing and, to me, it lowers the reputation of the tournament. It's supposed to be the best of the best, instead it's the best of the best and some guys with special privileges.
|
sc2 is no more esport its a fucking jersey shore mtv drama poeple wanna see drama nothing more
|
On December 15 2011 04:06 strongandbig wrote:
This is ridiculous. Naniwa earned his code s spot. They can't just retroactively kick him out for doing something they don't like that was completely within the rules. Dog law is not a system you can build around.
sums it up very well.
|
On December 15 2011 04:08 Kloudi wrote:
sc2 is no more esport its a fucking jersey shore mtv drama poeple wanna see drama nothing more
In which a Swedish nicknamed Naniwa who feverishly wanted to participated in; Isn't it interesting how quickly Swedish SC2 fans bash esport when a Swedish's penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct?
|
On December 15 2011 04:08 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:04 Hnnngg wrote:On December 15 2011 03:58 Mordiford wrote:On December 15 2011 03:55 Hnnngg wrote:On December 15 2011 03:53 Mordiford wrote:On December 15 2011 03:50 twndomn wrote:On December 15 2011 03:42 uSnAmplified wrote:
Glad i stopped paying money to watch a video game popularity contest. Naniwas hurting foreigners? i think being babied and given hand out code S spots is ruining the integrity of GOM more then then losing a meaningless match that should have never been played. There are plenty of Idra fans who would gladly pay for subscriptions to replace your place. Besides, GOM and Koreans have the east Asian culture that stresses respect, status quo, and professionalism. That kind of value is something Western culture has failed to understand. Therefore, it's not a meaningless match, ask any football fans in the US who support teams that have already failed to make the playoff. As to your "free hand out" assessment, why don't you look at Sen's resume? You should get a BlizzCon 3rd place finish, NASL season 1, and NASL season 2 3rd place finishes before you ask for your free-to-code S-pass. Stop being overly simplistic. Maybe HerO should ask for his free-to-Code-S-pass then, he's had a Dreamhack win and an NASL 2nd place finish over Sen's third. Code S shouldn't be a hand-out to foreigners, if that's the way GOM wishes to conduct their business that's fine but it genuinely diminishes the value of being Code S if it's given to a foreigner just for performing well abroad. Plenty of non-Code S Koreans manage to do well in foreign tournaments. Good Koreans are a dime a dozen. If Idra/Sen aren't good enough for Code S, they'll lose and get knocked out. Or they are good enough, they'll win enough to stay in and everything will continue. So because there are more good Korean players we should give handouts to foreign players? I'm sorry if I don't agree with that at all. On a tournament at the level of Code S, you should not be penalized for your nationality. So there are dozens of players that are potentially better than the invites, but because they're Korean, they should be neglected? I don't think that's fair at all. They aren't being penalized. They can win and get invited to Code S. Potentially better is just potentially, Idra/Sen are two of the best invites. And as myeg.net confirmed, Idra didn't ask for his Code S spot back and was going to compete in the Up/Downs. But GOMtv wanted him in Code S, for reasons many could speculate on. Hero has never been in Code S, despite trying nearly every season. I don't think he should get a pass because he wins a tournament outside of GSL when he tries every season. The people who get invited don't try to qualify and fail, they also don't try to qualify because qualifying for GSL while being a foreigner and not living in SKorea is practically impossible. And we can't expect foreigner to go live in SKorea indefinitely just to try for GSL, it's a strain on the players and on the teams. They can win in the extremely tough code A/B while the foreign players get to breeze through what is considered the hardest qualifier in SC2. Sounds like the koreans are getting shafted here. Why not hold a mini tournament at least with top code A players and Idra+Sen for the code S spots. This is all about marketing and it lower the reputation of the tournament. It's supposed to be the best of the best, instead it's the best of the best and some guys with special privileges.
They needed spots for Code S, Idra/Sen were good choices and accepted.
It's not like they added room to Code S or kicked out Koreans in favor of foreigners (albeit not directly).
But like I said, it is not reasonable to expect foreigners to qualify for GSL without a permanent residence in SKorea. And it is also not reasonable to expect foreigner teams to try and permanently house their players just to try and qualify for GSL, and then pay for their travel expenses when travelling outside of SKorea.
|
On December 15 2011 04:12 Hnnngg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:08 karpo wrote:On December 15 2011 04:04 Hnnngg wrote:On December 15 2011 03:58 Mordiford wrote:On December 15 2011 03:55 Hnnngg wrote:On December 15 2011 03:53 Mordiford wrote:On December 15 2011 03:50 twndomn wrote:On December 15 2011 03:42 uSnAmplified wrote:
Glad i stopped paying money to watch a video game popularity contest. Naniwas hurting foreigners? i think being babied and given hand out code S spots is ruining the integrity of GOM more then then losing a meaningless match that should have never been played. There are plenty of Idra fans who would gladly pay for subscriptions to replace your place. Besides, GOM and Koreans have the east Asian culture that stresses respect, status quo, and professionalism. That kind of value is something Western culture has failed to understand. Therefore, it's not a meaningless match, ask any football fans in the US who support teams that have already failed to make the playoff. As to your "free hand out" assessment, why don't you look at Sen's resume? You should get a BlizzCon 3rd place finish, NASL season 1, and NASL season 2 3rd place finishes before you ask for your free-to-code S-pass. Stop being overly simplistic. Maybe HerO should ask for his free-to-Code-S-pass then, he's had a Dreamhack win and an NASL 2nd place finish over Sen's third. Code S shouldn't be a hand-out to foreigners, if that's the way GOM wishes to conduct their business that's fine but it genuinely diminishes the value of being Code S if it's given to a foreigner just for performing well abroad. Plenty of non-Code S Koreans manage to do well in foreign tournaments. Good Koreans are a dime a dozen. If Idra/Sen aren't good enough for Code S, they'll lose and get knocked out. Or they are good enough, they'll win enough to stay in and everything will continue. So because there are more good Korean players we should give handouts to foreign players? I'm sorry if I don't agree with that at all. On a tournament at the level of Code S, you should not be penalized for your nationality. So there are dozens of players that are potentially better than the invites, but because they're Korean, they should be neglected? I don't think that's fair at all. They aren't being penalized. They can win and get invited to Code S. Potentially better is just potentially, Idra/Sen are two of the best invites. And as myeg.net confirmed, Idra didn't ask for his Code S spot back and was going to compete in the Up/Downs. But GOMtv wanted him in Code S, for reasons many could speculate on. Hero has never been in Code S, despite trying nearly every season. I don't think he should get a pass because he wins a tournament outside of GSL when he tries every season. The people who get invited don't try to qualify and fail, they also don't try to qualify because qualifying for GSL while being a foreigner and not living in SKorea is practically impossible. And we can't expect foreigner to go live in SKorea indefinitely just to try for GSL, it's a strain on the players and on the teams. They can win in the extremely tough code A/B while the foreign players get to breeze through what is considered the hardest qualifier in SC2. Sounds like the koreans are getting shafted here. Why not hold a mini tournament at least with top code A players and Idra+Sen for the code S spots. This is all about marketing and it lower the reputation of the tournament. It's supposed to be the best of the best, instead it's the best of the best and some guys with special privileges. They needed spots for Code S, Idra/Sen were good choices and accepted. It's not like they added room to Code S or kicked out Koreans in favor of foreigners (albeit not directly). But like I said, it is not reasonable to expect foreigners to qualify for GSL without a permanent residence in SKorea. And it is also not reasonable to expect foreigner teams to try and permanently house their players just to try and qualify for GSL, and then pay for their travel expenses when travelling outside of SKorea.
If they needed spots for code S there a whole bunch of awesome players in code A to pick from.
Why even invite foreigners into code S if there's no feasible way for them to permanently live in Korea? GSL is season based and the whole point seems to be to reward consistent great players yet they totally step away from that by inviting foreigners who GOM more or less know will drop out and go home eventually.
|
On December 15 2011 04:11 twndomn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:08 Kloudi wrote:
sc2 is no more esport its a fucking jersey shore mtv drama poeple wanna see drama nothing more In which a Swedish nicknamed Naniwa who feverishly wanted to participated in; Isn't it interesting how quickly Swedish SC2 fans bash esport when a Swedish's penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct?
I'm not from sweden and I completely agree with him. This has little to do with nationality, and trying to make it so makes you sound small and unimportant.
|
It's disgusting that they're asking a player who has on numerous occassions forfeited matches to replace Naniwa, who was removed due to forfeiting matches.
|
On December 15 2011 04:17 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:12 Hnnngg wrote:On December 15 2011 04:08 karpo wrote:On December 15 2011 04:04 Hnnngg wrote:On December 15 2011 03:58 Mordiford wrote:On December 15 2011 03:55 Hnnngg wrote:On December 15 2011 03:53 Mordiford wrote:On December 15 2011 03:50 twndomn wrote:On December 15 2011 03:42 uSnAmplified wrote:
Glad i stopped paying money to watch a video game popularity contest. Naniwas hurting foreigners? i think being babied and given hand out code S spots is ruining the integrity of GOM more then then losing a meaningless match that should have never been played. There are plenty of Idra fans who would gladly pay for subscriptions to replace your place. Besides, GOM and Koreans have the east Asian culture that stresses respect, status quo, and professionalism. That kind of value is something Western culture has failed to understand. Therefore, it's not a meaningless match, ask any football fans in the US who support teams that have already failed to make the playoff. As to your "free hand out" assessment, why don't you look at Sen's resume? You should get a BlizzCon 3rd place finish, NASL season 1, and NASL season 2 3rd place finishes before you ask for your free-to-code S-pass. Stop being overly simplistic. Maybe HerO should ask for his free-to-Code-S-pass then, he's had a Dreamhack win and an NASL 2nd place finish over Sen's third. Code S shouldn't be a hand-out to foreigners, if that's the way GOM wishes to conduct their business that's fine but it genuinely diminishes the value of being Code S if it's given to a foreigner just for performing well abroad. Plenty of non-Code S Koreans manage to do well in foreign tournaments. Good Koreans are a dime a dozen. If Idra/Sen aren't good enough for Code S, they'll lose and get knocked out. Or they are good enough, they'll win enough to stay in and everything will continue. So because there are more good Korean players we should give handouts to foreign players? I'm sorry if I don't agree with that at all. On a tournament at the level of Code S, you should not be penalized for your nationality. So there are dozens of players that are potentially better than the invites, but because they're Korean, they should be neglected? I don't think that's fair at all. They aren't being penalized. They can win and get invited to Code S. Potentially better is just potentially, Idra/Sen are two of the best invites. And as myeg.net confirmed, Idra didn't ask for his Code S spot back and was going to compete in the Up/Downs. But GOMtv wanted him in Code S, for reasons many could speculate on. Hero has never been in Code S, despite trying nearly every season. I don't think he should get a pass because he wins a tournament outside of GSL when he tries every season. The people who get invited don't try to qualify and fail, they also don't try to qualify because qualifying for GSL while being a foreigner and not living in SKorea is practically impossible. And we can't expect foreigner to go live in SKorea indefinitely just to try for GSL, it's a strain on the players and on the teams. They can win in the extremely tough code A/B while the foreign players get to breeze through what is considered the hardest qualifier in SC2. Sounds like the koreans are getting shafted here. Why not hold a mini tournament at least with top code A players and Idra+Sen for the code S spots. This is all about marketing and it lower the reputation of the tournament. It's supposed to be the best of the best, instead it's the best of the best and some guys with special privileges. They needed spots for Code S, Idra/Sen were good choices and accepted. It's not like they added room to Code S or kicked out Koreans in favor of foreigners (albeit not directly). But like I said, it is not reasonable to expect foreigners to qualify for GSL without a permanent residence in SKorea. And it is also not reasonable to expect foreigner teams to try and permanently house their players just to try and qualify for GSL, and then pay for their travel expenses when travelling outside of SKorea. If they needed spots for code S there a whole bunch of awesome players in code A to pick from. Why even invite foreigners into code S if there's no feasible way for them to permanently live in Korea? GSL is season based and the whole point seems to be to reward consistent great players yet they totally step away from that by inviting foreigners who GOM more or less know will drop out and go home eventually.
Yes but those players in Code A can win their way into Code S.
Being in Code S is reason enough to stay in SKorea for some time. They also aren't obligated to stay for more than they want, so the players can drop and go home when they want. It's completely worth it for the fans and for GOMtv. The fans love seeing their player compete in the GSL and GOMtv loves getting the viewers watching the players play in the GSL. It's a win/win situation.
And there are problems with some good Koreans not getting enough money/exposure, but that's not going to automatically solved by GOM ceasing their foreigner invites. It's a bigger issue outside of GOMtv's control. So there is definitely a downside to letting foreigners take spots that could be filled with SKoreans, but on a eSports-style mentality it's worth more to invite the foreigners.
|
I still dont understand why they invited Sen. Hes great but still doesnt participate in much and hasnt won anything major
|
On December 15 2011 04:26 raf3776 wrote:
I still dont understand why they invited Sen. Hes great but still doesnt participate in much and hasnt won anything major
My guess is that he's showed that he can hold his own quite well against top level players. They also haven't invited a player from Asia in a while, so that might be a factor too.
|
On December 15 2011 04:23 Musketeer wrote:
It's disgusting that they're asking a player who has on numerous occassions forfeited matches to replace Naniwa, who was removed due to forfeiting matches.
The thing that bothers me the most, is that they revoke Naniwa's code S
for what he did in blizzard cup(unrelated to gsl ?), citing respectless behavior to his opponent and the crowd
They then proceed to give a code S spot to Idra who has on numerous occasions
been very respectless to other players (for example saying "fuck you" to Mana in Ipl 2)
Seems like double standards to me
|
On December 15 2011 04:26 raf3776 wrote:
I still dont understand why they invited Sen. Hes great but still doesnt participate in much and hasnt won anything major
when Sen finished 3rd at BlizzCon, do you actually expect him to defeat MVP and Nestea who finished 1st and 2nd? Not to mention Naniwa finished 4th at the same event. All the tournaments Sen finished 3rd, only Koreans finished ahead of Sen. To GOM, that make a lot of sense. To Koreans, finishing1st in a tournament lacking Korean pros might not show much credibility.
If Stephano wanted code S, Gom would have give it to him; but he doesn't want GSL, what else can you do.
|
On December 15 2011 04:34 najreteip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:23 Musketeer wrote:
It's disgusting that they're asking a player who has on numerous occassions forfeited matches to replace Naniwa, who was removed due to forfeiting matches. The thing that bothers me the most, is that they revoke Naniwa's code S for what he did in blizzard cup(unrelated to gsl ?), citing respectless behavior to his opponent and the crowd They then proceed to give a code S spot to Idra who has on numerous occasions been very respectless to other players (for example saying "fuck you" to Mana in Ipl 2) Seems like double standards to me
No. GOM has not interest in other tournaments, it's not a thing of principle.
Naniwa did something bad at a GOM tournament, he gets punished by GOM. He continues to play in other events.
Idra did something bad at an IGN tournament, he gets punished by IGN (this never happened, but that was up to IGN to make the call). He continues to play in other events.
There isn't a collection of leagues, they have their own rules and their own identities. They work together (which is fabulous) but they should and do remain separate entities.
|
Both IdrA and Sen don't deserve code S. Nani lost it just because he probe rush???
|
On December 15 2011 04:22 blinken wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:11 twndomn wrote:On December 15 2011 04:08 Kloudi wrote:
sc2 is no more esport its a fucking jersey shore mtv drama poeple wanna see drama nothing more In which a Swedish nicknamed Naniwa who feverishly wanted to participated in; Isn't it interesting how quickly Swedish SC2 fans bash esport when a Swedish's penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct? I'm not from sweden and I completely agree with him. This has little to do with nationality, and trying to make it so makes you sound small and unimportant.
is your id Kloudi? If not, why are you trying to pretend someone you are not? Sure, trying to associate this matter into some MTV drama, as what Kloudi has done, does make one sound small and insignificant. Of course, no surprise coming from a Swedish fan.
|
On December 15 2011 04:41 twndomn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:22 blinken wrote:On December 15 2011 04:11 twndomn wrote:On December 15 2011 04:08 Kloudi wrote:
sc2 is no more esport its a fucking jersey shore mtv drama poeple wanna see drama nothing more In which a Swedish nicknamed Naniwa who feverishly wanted to participated in; Isn't it interesting how quickly Swedish SC2 fans bash esport when a Swedish's penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct? I'm not from sweden and I completely agree with him. This has little to do with nationality, and trying to make it so makes you sound small and unimportant. is your id Kloudi? If not, why are you trying to pretend someone you are not? Sure, trying to associate this matter into some MTV drama, as what Kloudi has done, does make one sound small and insignificant. Of course, no surprise coming from a Swedish fan.
average retard
User was temp banned for this post.
|
Hah, replacing Naniwa with Idra for the sake of maturity & progamer mentality. Gom, among the list of bad decisions you've made, this is the worst yet.
|
On December 15 2011 04:39 tuho12345 wrote:
Both IdrA and Sen don't deserve code S. Nani lost it just because he probe rush???
IdrA gave up his code S spot when he had it before, so i guess it was good choice to pick him instead of someone else, he never lost his code S spot, he just couldnt attend at the event.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
