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On December 14 2011 01:07 Coca Cola Classic wrote:
Every other professional sport schedules matches that are meaningless to be played. Some are still fairly entertaining, even if not the highest quality match you've ever watched.
Whoever argued that viewers of other professional sports allow for teams to blatantly lose the game is beyond short sighted. Viewers would NOT stand for players kicking it into their own on purpose as an attempt to end the game. Any professional sport with a tournament round-robin/qualifying system would not allow this to happen.
agreed
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On December 14 2011 01:09 MonkeyMaan wrote:
Honestly I can't be arsed to feel mad or sad about. In all actuality I quite enjoyed the move as it just shows his feelings more clearly. Sure it is kind of sad that NesTea had to win his only game like that (and it is his birthday too) but that does not really matter in my opinion.
My philosophy in this sort of circumstance is that you should just enjoy the little things and so I did.
WHY DID PEOPLE NOT RAGE when Idra forfeited his match against Haypro in Dreamhack? (I think, right) Those matches have much more importance to them than these matches, yet I did not see 2309429304 threads of uproar with that. This is silly.
IdrA didn't forfeit against Haypro. He didn't hear the call for the matches to be played. He did catch some flak for it before he revealed the reason why he didn't play, though. Bottom line is the match between Naniwa and Nestea shouldn't have been played, though Naniwa's don't give a fuck attitude to a-move 7 probes probably wasn't the best decision when it comes to his reputation in SC2.
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On December 14 2011 01:15 ravemir wrote:
Does he realize he'll be even more unpopular in GSL than Polt was?
Why should he care? Amd he will be popular for sure after this just not in the right way.
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Not much to say except for that I will still cheer heartfully for Naniwa, while I'm grateful for the negative reactions. The scene would of course lose its sense of sportsmanship if every pro started to forfeit matches that won't have an impact on their final results. Because of that it's only natural that the system demonstrates its disliking of Naniwa's choise.
Don't let this get you down, gogo win in your next event Nani!
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For once I can understand the reactions Nani, even if I can also understand your completely reasonable motivations.
I didn't have very high hopes for Nani in this tournament because of him saying he was badly jet-lagged and with the team switch he wasn't able to practice optimally (though my impression is still that at least now he gets to practice with the ST players, which should be better than what it was before?). I didn't see this coming though.
As a side note I think that for some mostly negligible reasons it's better for Nani to just send his probes and lose the game than try a 4-gate and lose. At least this way we all know what was going on, whereas a 4-gate, even if it just as well would've effectively been giving away the game it could still be interpreted as if Nani is still deep inside that 4-gate player or something.
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IdrA agrees with Naniwa debate closed.
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On December 13 2011 23:50 turamn wrote:
I don't understand how one person can disrespect every organization he plays for, jump teams like he's changing underpants, and constantly whine about how he's not getting any respect. I tried to stay positive about Naniwa after he was sold from Complexity, but this just takes the cake.
In the span of a month he has been sold from a team, complained about a tournament he nearly won, and shit all over anyone who paid for the Blizzard cup. I tried to be supportive of him, but I seriously can't do it anymore. His attitude towards everything is a joke and it's become blatantly obvious that he cares for nothing other than him self. This is not the kind of person foreigners need representing themselves on the grandest stage in Starcraft 2 scene.
This so much,
I don't post much here but Naniwa really grinds my gears with the way he holds himself and the way he absolutely disrespects everything he comes into contact with in E-sports. I felt compelled to log in and share my opinion.
He dissed the whole WC3 scene , he dissed Grubby the WC3 legend saying something along the lines of "I have no respect for him because he played Orc" .Grubby was winning tournaments when Orc were the weakest race , he was winning tournaments when Orc were the strongest race. He diss's every single team he's ever played for and now he probe rushs at a tournament people have paid to see?
I'm not the kind of guy to pick on a guy just for the sake of picking on him or because it's the "it" thing to do , on the contrary - I'll try even more to see where he's coming from and see his point of view on the matter. But Naniwa is a weak person with an ever worse attitude to life who deserves very little respect ( if any at all ). I've seen him try and make strides to "improve" himself but then he goes and does something like this and I remember why I thought so little of him in the fist place.
/logs out
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The only reason I was pissed is because he didn't micro his probes!!! If he at least tried to pull some surrounds on the drones I think people would not be upset.
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He's right about the Korean media/fans. They are over-sensitive to BM/badboy stuff and it's annoying. Every other sport has this kind of thing, drama is a good thing for E-Sports as long as it doesn't concern a loss of money or slander of a team or something. Yes NaNiWa's game wasn't very entertaining but it isn't a big deal.
People just like hating on NaNiWa because he wants to have a little beef with NesTea. It's ridiculous.
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On December 14 2011 01:12 disciple wrote:
Exactly, imagine Barca playing a meaningless game with their B squad, OMG they will rob all fans who paid to see Messi so unprofessional
That implies the B squad isnt trying to win.
And they only really field the B squad against the worst teams in La Liga.
Bit different from literally handing the game to the opponent.
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"I thought there is nothing at stake since neither me or Nestea can advance, and I know that unless I have something to play for I can't perform my best. I just felt like it wouldn't satisfy the fans at all with playing half hearted."
If this was really his mindset, he should have just forfeited the game immediately. Sending his probes all the way across the map and then engaging in a fight was just a mockery. Doing that was slapping ESPORTS in the face.
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On December 14 2011 01:14 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:09 StatorFlux wrote:+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Nyc9jzSDg Naniwa is a better behaved John McEnroe. Tennis is probably a even more etiquette-bound community than Starcraft and yet McEnroe is considered one of the all-time greats. Wikipedia on his DQ from Australian Open"Controversy was never far from McEnroe, however; in his fourth round match against Mikael Pernfors at the 1990 Australian Open, McEnroe was ejected from the tournament for swearing at the umpire, supervisor, and referee" Naniwa seems tame in comparison. You can always find worse cases. Doesn't make Naniwa's behavior any more acceptable
these things are dumb, take for example the NFL teams will almost always player their b or even c squad at the end of the season for multiple reasons, injury, and the fact that unless they're borderline the only time the game matters is when determining play off seeding sometimes. Like the thing Naniwa did happens in every sport, but ironically to much worse a degree. The game didn't matter, he was pissed, let him be for the love of God, people take some stuff way to seriously. People act like Naniwa walked into the game, said Fuck you to Nestea, and then quit the game immediately, that's not what happened, he just tried a really bad all-in.
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On December 13 2011 23:54 PikaXchU wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:51 coddan wrote:
At MLG people play rock paper scissors over placement matches. At Assembly Stephano and Brat_OK competed in losing a best of 3. Stephano threw a series against Cloud at Dreamhack. Idra forfeited an entire group's worth of games at IPL. All of these games had were more important than this match.
But Naniwa is the scum of the earth because it happened in Korea. Nope, people are reacting because he worker rushed. Simple as that. Some are just overreacting too much though.
Nestea did worker rush too ... I don't remember anyone, beside naniwa, saying that he was an idiot. Going 0/3 is very hard and I understand why he worker rushed.
Still big big fan ;D
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this is so wrong on so many levels. Let me give you an example using the world cup. Imagine it is round robin play and top national team like Italy or Spain is 0-2 , and will absolutely not make it into the next elimination round. Yet the said team still has to play out their third game. How embarassing for that country would it be if they decided to just throw the game by either forfeiting or scoring in their own net intentionally. There would be a massive uproar for the complete disrespect of the sport, the competition and the nation being represented. Never in any sport is what Naniwa did acceptable, for the same reasons. Naniwa is a top foreigner, no doubt about that and that is why he should act professionally at events, ecpecially one like this where the ENTIRe foreign scene is on his shoulders, if your going to lose thats fine but at least show that you care.
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On December 14 2011 01:09 ellirc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:06 exupery wrote:On December 14 2011 00:39 ellirc wrote:On December 14 2011 00:35 exupery wrote:
the poor league system makes this happen. anyway, I was really disappointed.
I heard that naniwa will show up in next code S, hope he does his best next time. Did you not know that Nani played four games today just like everybody else? He lost the first three ones very narrowly and you say he didn't do his best? Get real. I mean the final game today. MINDSET Well... It's obvious that Nani will always do his best in a tournament. Especially in Korea as he really thinks that the best players are there. Why would he not do his best in Code S? It's all he's been talking about for almost a year's time now. Open your eyes man..
I know he's been trying so hard and he always wants to advance in code s. I also understand his feeling, But he need to reorganize his mind
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haters gonna hate - completely support you naniwa!
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So if you suffer a bad loss in the groups early on, do you think you can bounce back?
It doesn't matter to me in other games if I win or lose the previous match, I just treat each match like it's the same thing, and give it my best.
Nani.. you didn't though...
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<3 naniwa! He has my support!
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On December 14 2011 01:19 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:14 Linwelin wrote:On December 14 2011 01:09 StatorFlux wrote:+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Nyc9jzSDg Naniwa is a better behaved John McEnroe. Tennis is probably a even more etiquette-bound community than Starcraft and yet McEnroe is considered one of the all-time greats. Wikipedia on his DQ from Australian Open"Controversy was never far from McEnroe, however; in his fourth round match against Mikael Pernfors at the 1990 Australian Open, McEnroe was ejected from the tournament for swearing at the umpire, supervisor, and referee" Naniwa seems tame in comparison. You can always find worse cases. Doesn't make Naniwa's behavior any more acceptable these things are dumb, take for example the NFL teams will almost always player their b or even c squad at the end of the season for multiple reasons, injury, and the fact that unless they're borderline the only time the game matters is when determining play off seeding sometimes. Like the thing Naniwa did happens in every sport, but ironically to much worse a degree. The game didn't matter, he was pissed, let him be for the love of God, people take some stuff way to seriously. People act like Naniwa walked into the game, said Fuck you to Nestea, and then quit the game immediately, that's not what happened, he just tried a really bad all-in.
still don't hand the football over to the opposing team and tell them to score a touchdown. They still try to tackle. They still try to execute offensive sets.
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On December 14 2011 01:09 Ysellian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:06 FluXxxx wrote:On December 14 2011 00:58 Ysellian wrote:On December 14 2011 00:49 Xiron wrote:On December 14 2011 00:43 OpticalShot wrote:
Naniwa: "With nothing at stake people can't show their best."
Very disappointed. Sure, there was no immediate cash at stake from that match, but what about fan support? What about leaving behind an epic grudgematch to be talked about for several months? What about the 'image' of a 'progamer'? What about just playing a fine broadcasted game for the sake of playing the game?
Why would Blizzard schedule the game even if the result did not affect the numbers on the cheques?
There are certain underlying expectations that were shattered. Have you ever lost a game ever? I personally don't want to play directly after an important game. If I'm forced to play when I just dont want to because it's senseless since I'm on tilt, I quit. Naniwa did just the same. What expectations are you even talking about? If Naniwa crushed Nestea, everyone would have said 'Nestea was on tilt bla'. If Naniwa got crushed everyone would say the same about Nani. There wouldnt have been a grudge match because it was in an not competitive situation anymore, so the restults dont matter. If you play sports competitively you'll find dozens of times when things don't go your way and you find yourself in Naniwa's position. It's one of the worst things feelings ever, but that's sports. If a tournament wants you to play out the remaining matches you take it like a man. If I pulled off something similar as Naniwa I would get suspended by my club. edit: After typing I actually recalled a chess tournament where I did something similar as Naniwa. I call tell you that didn't end well for me XD i have played so many different sports competitively,soccer,table top soccer, volleyball whatever and there were always events where i or my team played decider matches that i didn't want to play because i was disappointed but i played everytime because i fucking loved these kind of sports!!! I have just played for the fun and some of these matches have been the most funniest matches i have ever played! This is so unbelievably true actually. I remember this game ending in soccer where we won 7-5 it was just insane as both teams really wanted to go out with a bang, it really helped wash away the pain of the defeat.
Yes it can be fun once youre over your loss and just play just for the heck of it. But look at this tournament...
Nani probably prepared a ton for this and played really good, and had 3 pretty heartbreaking and close losses. So after this he is probably sad, let down, mad, frustrated..
And then people cant just leave them alone and force him to play a completly pointless match? Just because theyre out for more blood and drama? Really?
People talk about respect for the audience and the sponsors but who has some respect for naniwa. Yes Whitera probably wouldve done something goofy in that game and enjoyed it. But people are different and Nani is someone who obviously takes this game really serious and takes a while to get over these losses. And these losses WHERE heartbreaking and frustrating.
And forcing someone who obviously doesnt want to play a fun game / is frustrated and in a bad mood to play, just because people want more blood and drama?! THATS disrespectful towards these players as persons with emotions and nerves. People will get stressed out/sad over losses because theyre human beings and if people feel like this then forcing them to play meaningless games just for the crowd is disrespectful to them as human beings.
At least the guy acts like himself and says what he means instead of going "im soo sorry i promise my fans ill train more" like 90% of koreans would.
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EPT
