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rd
United States2586 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:14 Paperplane wrote: We need corporal punishment for these sorts of things. No gg? You lose a finger. Throw a game? You lose two! I think you should lose a hand, to be honest. Throwing a game means you don't care about it whatsoever. The only justified punishment is the inability to ever play any computer games ever again. | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:11 renaissanceMAN wrote: hero didn't throw his game, he just tried something that had a very slim chance of working it would have been different if he had tried block DRG's ramp with a nexus or something, not like he gave up like naniwa did In a match that ultimately decided who passed the group stage, Hero played to entertain rather than to win. Isn't that more disrespectful to the other competitors than not playing in a match that had no influence on the standing of the group? And just to be clear, I don't blame Hero at all. This is a problem born of the tournament-system. Maybe GOM should turn their eyes inwards. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:17 Tyrant0 wrote: I think you should lose a hand, to be honest. Throwing a game means you don't care about it whatsoever. The only justified punishment is the inability to ever play any computer games ever again. throwing a game like that is also disrespectful to the other player. like a "f*** you, you're wasting my time, I want to just go already, go away" On December 14 2011 06:19 m0ck wrote: In a match that ultimately decided who passed the group stage, Hero played to entertain rather than to win. Isn't that more disrespectful to the other competitors than not playing in a match that had no influence on the standing of the group? And just to be clear, I don't blame Hero at all. This is a problem born of the tournament-system. Maybe GOM should turn their eyes inwards. At least he played..... >_> | ||
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Russano
United States434 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:08 Jibba wrote: Why did he have to play? Is it a life or death contract? Well if they told him he wasn't allowed to forfeit, he probably thought that fullfilled the minimum requirements of a game. Where do you draw the line at how much "effort" someone is required to give before its deemed fair? It seems like everyone is saying that line is at zero, however probe rush is technicially above zero if not by much. So how much of someones freedom of gameplay are you going to restrict before it's deemed fair and equitable and respectful? | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:15 SeriouR wrote: Fuck Koreans, seriusly:/ They need to start thinking a bit more as e-sports not as something cultural of theirs but something global (alfter all, it is the global starcraft league). They might have this mindset of giving it all in every game no amtter what, but that is not the mindset in the occidental world and from there we get our greatness and our flaws. your funny you know that right? How would you feel if Barca decided to stop playing well against Valencia because "the season is already over, we can't get a champions league spot so who cares"? How do you think the fans would feel? I'd bet we could hear the riots in Austria nearly 2k kilometres away. When professional players of any kind step onto their gamefield (whatever that may be) the fans expect a decent game from them. That doesn't change in any culture i know off. Also i'd love for you to define the "mindset" of the occidental world, because i have never heard of such a thing and definitly couldn't define it. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:19 Russano wrote: Well if they told him he wasn't allowed to forfeit, he probably thought that fullfilled the minimum requirements of a game. Where do you draw the line at how much "effort" someone is required to give before its deemed fair? It seems like everyone is saying that line is at zero, however probe rush is technicially above zero if not by much. So how much of someones freedom of gameplay are you going to restrict before it's deemed fair and equitable and respectful? could - proxy 10 gate - proxy 12 gate - 12forge cannon rush .... etc? o.o | ||
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
On December 13 2011 23:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote: The people who bought the HD Pass knew the format of the tournament and knew that it allowed for inconsequential games. Without the incentive of winning a tournament, progamers should not try to win. No one is good enough to waste their best effort on inconsequential games, especially with how many major tournaments there are nowadays. Whatever the best strategy Naniwa had in mind for the game, he should not use it. What irrational people want and expect is for the players to put on a false show of a competition, where they both seem to be trying enough for viewers to successfully suspend their disbelief. Such people don't constitute a significant enough part of the community to justify this huge reaction. If I watched it for free using the SQ stream, then OK I totally see your point(hey it's free entertainment, so no harm no foul). It just means I have to stay up till the wee hours of the morning here in PST time to watch the games. I bought the HD pass. This enables me to watch the VODS later. So would you say this is a lesson to me, to not buy it next time? Just want to say that, when money is put down on the table, you've invested something into the tourney. About supporting esports right? And what qualifies as "inconsequential"? Any BO1 format? My impression is, when money is on the line for the players, it counts. If it's inconsequential, then why should anyone play this joke of a tourney? My take is, it does matter for all concerned. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:07 Tula wrote: also going on tilt and throwing matches is not quite the same. I remember that series and it was heartbreaking to watch... Yes he "threw" the games (as in he played badly), but he lost them because in his mind he was already defeated ("protoss imba" etc.). He didn't decide to 6 pool or worker rush. I think he tried roach ling all ins, or similar two base stuff. Not 2minutes rushes. He did 6pool MC during the previous Dreamhack Winter tournament, in a game 2 on Xel'Naga Caverns. That was as close as you can get to throwing a game without worker rushing, since it will never work on a 2 player map against someone who always pylon scouts. Aside from the usual "lol Idra" comments in the LR, nobody cared all too much, except Incontrol I guess. It's like Tyler's tweet says, Naniwa merely dared to be explicit about something that happens all the time in tournaments, | ||
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
Its like getting mad at nestea for trolling games on ladder when people are watching his opponents stream and saying nestea let us down by not playing good games. Maybe give the players a reason to not finish 5th over 4th and then you would have no problem. seems like the Korean scene just hates naniwa >_> whateves | ||
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Angry.Zerg
Mexico305 Posts
I don't hate Naniwa, (actually I don't really care about him since I just follow Zerg players) but if GOM decides to suspend him from GSL, I'll support them since they are caring about my experience as a customer, and I will thank them. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:21 stokes17 wrote: eh.... get a real problem.... dood didn't want to play a game that had no point, can't really blame him.... I see where the article is coming from, but its not like he left his team hanging or anything. Its like getting mad at nestea for trolling games on ladder when people are watching his opponents stream and saying nestea let us down by not playing good games. Maybe give the players a reason to not finish 5th over 4th and then you would have no problem. seems like the Korean scene just hates naniwa >_> whateves why are you comparing tournaments to ladder? | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote: why are you comparing tournaments to ladder? Well, that last game had about the same importance as a ladder game. It was at most a glorified showmatch. | ||
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dCc
Canada86 Posts
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Insane
United States4991 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:14 Utinni wrote: Tell that to all the Koreans in Cod S,A,B who hate him right now for throwing the game and disrespecting GSL and the fans at the game. I would if I spoke Korean, but I don't speak it and I doubt anyone cares enough about either that comment or my opinion to translate it for them... You're nuts if you think that was disrespecting "GSL and the fans of the game". It was a game that didn't count for anything, and he didn't want to play it. He did not say "Fuck you", he did not even leave without "gg"ing. He just picked a bad strategy and lost with it in a quick game. On December 14 2011 06:16 Tula wrote: If we have to explain the difference about a run of the mill MLG (note providence as in the national final is different) and the BLIZZARD CUP, which is supposed to be the most prestigous tournament of the year (wether it truly is or not is another discussion, but that is what we are expecting from the name) where only the best of the best are competing against each other, then this discussion makes little sense. No, please do explain it. "Run of the mill MLG" has code S korean players participating. It has hundreds of participants, with tens (hundreds?) of thousands of viewers for the event itself (not for those games specifically I guess). A tournament is a tournament. The fact that there are only good players in it doesn't mean you should be held to a different standard of behavior. | ||
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Russano
United States434 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:20 zhurai wrote: could - proxy 10 gate - proxy 12 gate - 12forge cannon rush .... etc? o.o My point, is that, it's an arbitrary line we are drawing where there were no lines at all. Its a dangerous precedent to set in actually forcing regulation into actual game play once the game starts, where there was absolutely none before. I'm really against restricting the rights of individual players to forfeit individual matches. A player should be allowed to do whatever he wants wtih his gameplay within the context of the game. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:24 Russano wrote: My point, is that, it's an arbitrary line we are drawing where there were no lines at all. Its a dangerous precedent to set in actually forcing regulation into actual game play once the game starts, where there was absolutely none before. I'm really against restricting the rights of individual players to forfeit individual matches. yeah, except probe rushing doesn't actually work unless the other player didn't know their own (superior numbers) of workers can actually attack back. whereas 6pool/etc can actually win _if_ they aren't scouted even if you scout the probes coming like that, you can hold it off easily oo | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:19 Russano wrote: Well if they told him he wasn't allowed to forfeit, he probably thought that fullfilled the minimum requirements of a game. Where do you draw the line at how much "effort" someone is required to give before its deemed fair? It seems like everyone is saying that line is at zero, however probe rush is technicially above zero if not by much. So how much of someones freedom of gameplay are you going to restrict before it's deemed fair and equitable and respectful? Your argument is silly. The line is drawn at the point where the player knows his strategy has 0% chance of ever winning. Worker rushing falls under this strategy as it does not work above bronze league. Almost everything else that actually has a chance of working, qualifies as giving enough effort. And really, why should someone be a progamer if they are not willing to give it their all in every match, it's what they're there for and it's what they are being paid for. | ||
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ssi.bal-listic
United States568 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:15 SeriouR wrote: Fuck Koreans, seriusly:/ They need to start thinking a bit more as e-sports not as something cultural of theirs but something global (alfter all, it is the global starcraft league). They might have this mindset of giving it all in every game no amtter what, but that is not the mindset in the occidental world and from there we get our greatness and our flaws. lol you got to be kidding me. When in rome, do as the romans do. When in Korea, do as the Koreans do. Naniwa has been in Korea long enough to know the Korean culture and work ethic. What naniwa did is just garbage ethics. Think of all the fans who bought the ticket to watch high quality games and get their money worth for each game. What naniwa did was very unprofessional. It not only ruins the reputation of Quantic and himself, but also ruins the foreigner reputation in general. Sure there are respectable foreigner who koreans acknowledge like Whitera and huk but Naniwa certainly doesnt help. | ||
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Insane
United States4991 Posts
On December 14 2011 06:20 D_K_night wrote: If I watched it for free using the SQ stream, then OK I totally see your point(hey it's free entertainment, so no harm no foul). It just means I have to stay up till the wee hours of the morning here in PST time to watch the games. I bought the HD pass. This enables me to watch the VODS later. So would you say this is a lesson to me, to not buy it next time? Just want to say that, when money is put down on the table, you've invested something into the tourney. About supporting esports right? And what qualifies as "inconsequential"? Any BO1 format? My impression is, when money is on the line for the players, it counts. If it's inconsequential, then why should anyone play this joke of a tourney? My take is, it does matter for all concerned. The game itself was inconsequential by that point. They were both eliminated, and the result of the game had no impact on either of them, nor of other players. Korean esports fans are amazingly hypocritical. For YEARS they have come to BW WCGs and the representatives blatantly threw games which directly impacted their and other players' seedings out of the groups. They just brushed it away and didn't care because it was a dumb foreigner tourney and the only people getting screwed were non-Koreans. | ||
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optical630
United Kingdom768 Posts
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