EPTPlease use this thread to give me any and all feedback/critique on my casting at my first live event! Don't be bashful, I want to improve as much as possible
Thanks so much guys, and enjoy the rest of the event! <3
orb Casting Feedback Thread
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
Please use this thread to give me any and all feedback/critique on my casting at my first live event! Don't be bashful, I want to improve as much as possible Thanks so much guys, and enjoy the rest of the event! <3 | ||
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tnud
Sweden2233 Posts
Your main problem is that you sometimes go into solo casting mode even when you got someone there to help you (i.e you talk fast and a lot  ). Other then that I really dig it! Keep it up! | ||
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Synk
United States297 Posts
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Iridium
Sweden90 Posts
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
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Dexington
Canada7276 Posts
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Magnitoo
Serbia125 Posts
On December 04 2011 10:58 Rekrul wrote: i think you're doing a great job with analysis but i'd like to see a little more personality and humor to flavor it up Pretty much this. Other than that I really like you're casting, even from the ESV Korean Weekly. | ||
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aristarchus
United States652 Posts
Some of the witty banter type things are probably less than ideal, but that doesn't matter too much to me. (Also, I have a lot of public speaking experience, though in a very different context, and my experience there would make me guess that the banter and so forth mostly just comes from having done enough dual casting in person to just be a little more familiar with the feel. I don't think there's much you could consciously do to improve that other than get more experience.) | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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Cyx.
Canada806 Posts
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
You've been doing a great job with NASL, much more analytical than most casters, which is what I really enjoy. Not trying to caster bash here, but getting stuck with Gretorp for the whole regular season was what held you back, if you have a co-caster, it needs to be a color commentator, like Tasteless. (Not saying Orb/Tasteless > Tasteless/Artosis, but Orb needs to find a Tasteless) | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On December 04 2011 11:05 VirgilSC2 wrote: if you have a co-caster, it needs to be a color commentator, like Tasteless. That means exactly the opposite of what you think it means. | ||
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Ballack
Norway821 Posts
You just come across as an unserious person to me now. While raging is fun and entertaining for viewers, when you take it to that level it just becomes offensive. As for your casting, I've always liked it. You're a strong analyst and to seem to have a good chemistry with most of the people you cast with. Wouldn't mind some more jokes though, but I guess that's not your style. | ||
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Seiferz
United States640 Posts
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
i don't mean to be mean about it, but there was quite a lot of racial bias before (for protoss), and it was unpleasant to hear most of the time. | ||
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Archile
United States403 Posts
personally, the Gretorp-orb- casting duo isnt working well for me..... i'm not a huge fan of Gretorp's casting, you guys don't have the greatest synergy, and you're kinda 'dry' together, try lightening up a bit! tell some funny stories! :D | ||
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
something baller/fashiony, not standard nerd frame | ||
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xrayEU
Sweden571 Posts
Keep it up man! | ||
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NuclearJudas
6546 Posts
On December 04 2011 11:05 VirgilSC2 wrote: [...]if you have a co-caster, it needs to be a color commentator, like Tasteless.[...] The term you're looking for is play-by-play commentator. A colour commentator would be someone like Artosis. You're doing really good, Orb! One of my favourite casters in the scene. Would perhaps be even better if you got loose a bit more and showed a bit more personality. I'd absolutely love to see you in GSL Code A. Keep up the good work! | ||
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Remb
United States190 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1996 Posts
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PopcornColonel
United States769 Posts
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Miraju
Germany235 Posts
On December 04 2011 11:12 Rekrul wrote: oh yeah, and get some new glasses something baller/fashiony, not standard nerd frame really good casting not much to critic about but indeed new boss glasses please . | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
:D | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
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Kiichol
Sweden182 Posts
But I'd like to see you cast with someone entertaining.. Because Gretorp does nothing but drag you down imo, your totally carrying the cast in my eyes. So I think if you find a good co-caster which you have good chemistry with I think you shall find success =) | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
But offtopic can be fun as well if its well thought out. to bad i only would have a german example of what i mean exactly. And since sc2 has less down time on whats happening, there is not to much off topic time, since explaining map and intentions comes first. Just my personal preference though. | ||
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FlamingTurd
United States1059 Posts
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rave[wcr]
United States1166 Posts
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CactusApple
22 Posts
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Trowa127
United Kingdom1230 Posts
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
But yes, your casting is top notch. Very knowledgeable and in my eyes one of the top 5 casters/commentators out there. No real flaws. | ||
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zZygote
Canada898 Posts
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ccesssu
United States19 Posts
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rohanim41
Canada60 Posts
The one i have difficulty to stand is Gretorp, he has nothing to add whoever he's teamed with, orb, husky or w/e. he doesn't seem to have that much of a deep knowledge of the metagame and isn't as exciting as other play by play casters i think... | ||
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Xcobidoo
Sweden1871 Posts
The beginnings are most often quite mellow, use it. | ||
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LXR
357 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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achristes
Norway653 Posts
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Rykros
483 Posts
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LambtrOn
United States671 Posts
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Hexxed
United States202 Posts
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
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Nexi
Australia182 Posts
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
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bustanut
United States76 Posts
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Razakel
Ireland466 Posts
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On December 04 2011 11:12 Rekrul wrote: oh yeah, and get some new glasses something baller/fashiony, not standard nerd frame yea thats been my main critique from the start. get just a little bulkier, get rid of those nerd glasses and youll be the most baller commentator in no time | ||
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nEAnS
Canada161 Posts
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Roxy
Canada753 Posts
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On December 04 2011 12:24 Razakel wrote: I like your casting, thanks for actually describing battles as they unfold instead of saying "Oh my GOD!" repeatedly. this. keep it up. i for one enjoy the over-excess of analytical commentary that you command | ||
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tsuxiit
1305 Posts
For example, when you saw that Puma had moved a factory on to his only tech lab instead of getting bio upgrades, you called that as a macro play which it absolutely isn't to anyone who knows anything about TvZ.... | ||
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Kare
Norway786 Posts
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
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yoshi245
United States2969 Posts
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poisui
1088 Posts
If you two (Orb and Gretorp) had paired with other casters, instead of each other, that may help. Those other casters' personalities could have rubbed off onto you and Gretorp. For example, Orb paired with Day9, and Gretorp paired with Husky, would probably have been far more entertaining to watch than if you paired with Gretorp. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
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ChezGod
United States590 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
God, you can talk fast. But that's a nice talent toi have as they said. Perhaps improve your casting while duo casting, you still feel like a more of a solocaster for the moment. | ||
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PlanitDuck
United States36 Posts
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Puph
Canada635 Posts
On December 04 2011 12:24 Razakel wrote: I like your casting, thanks for actually describing battles as they unfold instead of saying "Oh my GOD!" repeatedly. Yeah this, it's not like we need someone spoon feeding us how a battle is going but I like how you leave the "Oh my god!"s for the viewers as opposed to saying it yourself lol. No complaints for you thus far | ||
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WaZuP
Germany487 Posts
On December 04 2011 12:06 AndAgain wrote: I'd like you to call out Gretorp on his poor choices of adjectives. Something needs to be done about that. haha :D I really liked gretorps casting back tot he Broodwar days but yeah thats a real flaw as for orb more trashtalk, offtopic n fun stuff would be cool because as others also mentioned thers nothing to criticize about your anlyzises and casting style | ||
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Stropheum
United States1124 Posts
So my criticism is that you should work on being more popular. Get on that | ||
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aviator116
United States820 Posts
not for me though, im learning A LOT from your commentary | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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AutomatonOmega
United States706 Posts
Keep up the good work! | ||
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krispy
United States22 Posts
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Stipulation
United States587 Posts
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Seohce
United Kingdom394 Posts
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dde
Canada796 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
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Sleed
Canada181 Posts
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Dreadwolf
Canada220 Posts
On December 04 2011 12:25 7mk wrote: yea thats been my main critique from the start. get just a little bulkier, get rid of those nerd glasses and youll be the most baller commentator in no time So.. got him to be a better casting you want to see his eyes and you want him to work out... I can see those issues seriously affecting casting.. of guy vs guy mud wrestling, not sc2. Your casting is very good orb, keep working on it. | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
On December 04 2011 10:58 Rekrul wrote: i think you're doing a great job with analysis but i'd like to see a little more personality and humor to flavor it up I kinda disagree with this. I've had an assfull of everybody trying to be funny all the time. It's getting annoying. If you really have something funny to say, then ok. But don't try to force it. | ||
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MattO1337
United States203 Posts
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Akhee
Brazil811 Posts
On December 04 2011 10:58 Iridium wrote: I think your casting has been great, a high level analysis and good mapawareness, keep it up man! exactly what i would say | ||
Adebisi
Canada1637 Posts
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
You should try rapping, lol. | ||
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RyanRushia
United States2748 Posts
hows that? | ||
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AxelTVx
Canada916 Posts
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cmen15
United States1519 Posts
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stalpno
Australia9 Posts
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theBALLS
Singapore2935 Posts
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chipman
United States139 Posts
So good job. Apparently people want gretorp's head and nasl to die, I'm not one of those people, but I will say some casters are more entertaining than others to watch, each of them bring something different to the table, and almost all are otherwise semi-well rounded. IE: I'm a master level random player myself, even though I don't get to mechanically improve (practice) often I have a fairly good understanding of the game, but I don't have a problem with casting from dj wheat or husky because they do what they do well instead of trying to do something they're not comfortable/awkward with. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On December 04 2011 10:58 Rekrul wrote: i think you're doing a great job with analysis but i'd like to see a little more personality and humor to flavor it up I think it's better to let people be good at what they are good at. Let Husky be Husky and let day[9] be day[9]. Colour commentators for hype and technical casters for the really detailed reads/build breakdowns. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
I feel that you need to really add just a smidge more of your character in during downtime. During game the analytical stance is spectacular, however, you really need to show more of your personal side during the inbetween games after a short breakdown has been done. Also, this could be worked out when you find your casting soulmate. The person whom you really work well with. | ||
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woobsauce
United States491 Posts
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backtoback
Canada1276 Posts
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xlava
United States676 Posts
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Hasuu
Canada178 Posts
keep it up | ||
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Zraf
54 Posts
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Marconos
United States22 Posts
Biggest thing is reduce your speed some. At times you talk too fast and it's distracting, not every tiny detail needs to be pointed out. The other item is learn to work with your co-caster. You have to work off each other. That is something that is really best done with someone you cast with a lot. Gretorp hurts you and makes you look worse then you are, I would suggest avoiding casting with him as he is horrendus. Keep up the good work and look forward to seeing/hearing more of your casts. | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
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babylon
8765 Posts
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On December 04 2011 13:10 Dreadwolf wrote: So.. got him to be a better casting you want to see his eyes and you want him to work out... I can see those issues seriously affecting casting.. of guy vs guy mud wrestling, not sc2. Your casting is very good orb, keep working on it. why u so srs? On December 04 2011 12:28 tsuxiit wrote: You called a couple of things wrong, which you should absolutely NEVER do. Otherwise you aren't fulfilling your role as a caster. For example, when you saw that Puma had moved a factory on to his only tech lab instead of getting bio upgrades, you called that as a macro play which it absolutely isn't to anyone who knows anything about TvZ.... ya that was bad but that was really the only blunder I can think of. Theres no caster that always calls everything right, goes for day9 and artosis too so its kinda silly to say he didnt fulfill his role as a caster. | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44391 Posts
-You have a great knowledge of the game, so your analysis and occasional predictions/ reasonings are great. -You seem to come alive at the right times (when things get very interesting or when battles occur), and your level of enthusiasm is very good. It doesn't sound fake or forced. Sometimes, you slur words as you speed up though, which may or may not be something you can work on. -You work well with a co-caster and can enjoy a little friendly chatter at the start of the game, but you don't spend 50% of the entire game talking about non-StarCraft nonsense (PainUser? Gretorp? Looking at you guys...). This makes me sooo happy. Keep up the fantastic work | ||
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WaSa
Sweden749 Posts
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On December 04 2011 22:34 valaki wrote: Honestly my 2 favourite casters are you Orb and Rotti. Keep up the good work! haha, yesterday i kept thinking that orb+ rotterdam would be a really cool casting duo | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
1. dApollo 2. Tastossis 3. Orb | ||
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jakek95
United Kingdom351 Posts
On December 04 2011 10:58 Rekrul wrote: i think you're doing a great job with analysis but i'd like to see a little more personality and humor to flavor it up Yeh i would agree with this. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On December 04 2011 13:10 Dreadwolf wrote: So.. got him to be a better casting you want to see his eyes and you want him to work out... I can see those issues seriously affecting casting.. of guy vs guy mud wrestling, not sc2. Your casting is very good orb, keep working on it. Sad as you may think it is, looks are not unimportant in any business related to media. It might not matter to you, it might not matter to me, but it still is good advice to give. | ||
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CalumXD
United Kingdom9 Posts
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
And I would love to see you cast with Rotti too | ||
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KulterBaun
Sweden44 Posts
keep it up. | ||
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SCPlato
United States249 Posts
Edit; I agree with Nazgul's sentiments above. I think that is why I don't like you and Gretorp together. Maybe if you casted with someone else or if you two got a lot more experience together I would like it better. but you have casted a season together already so I don't know. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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-Cyrus-
United States318 Posts
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
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Young_Gun
United Kingdom18 Posts
2) Some of the jokes you do with Gretorp is quite off putting and sometimes offensive, try to tone it down 3) You have good analysis overall. So keep it up 4) Getting stuck with a caster like Gretorp doesn't help I know. I am sure you can improve a lot when paired with a more competent caster | ||
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Vaeila
Netherlands336 Posts
Gretorp: "Those mutalisks have been VERY cost effective" Orb: "They were on attack move and not attacking probes" Gretorp: "Whatever" | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
On December 04 2011 13:16 AndAgain wrote: I kinda disagree with this. I've had an assfull of everybody trying to be funny all the time. It's getting annoying. If you really have something funny to say, then ok. But don't try to force it. It's not about forcing humor, it's about not being too scared of the spotlight so that you become uptight, see? Speaking in binary, it's not about turning an 0 into a 1, it's about removing the 0 that's turning the 1 into a 0. So my advice -> try to relax, try to enjoy yourself more and maybe take the foot off the "personality breaks". Maybe imagine casting to your best buddies or something. You're definitely doing a good job with the analysis, but don't limit yourself into being just a human-trikoder who only calculates stuff and makes predictions. | ||
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JesusOurSaviour
United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
I've followed your stream in and out since the beta days. I must say - you have grown a lot over the past year or so. From swearing on stream after losing a game into someone who tries to give genuine analysis during a game, the positive change has been tremendous. The only criticism I have is that you can sometimes criticise players. The best casters never rip on players. Just as the best celebrity talk shows don't criticise the guests they are hosting. Ofcourse they will will banter and make some jokes about the celebrities they invite to talk shows, but they would never rip into them as you have ripped into some SCII pros. There is nothing worse than to hear a caster rip into a player for doing something "wrong" than to then see that player whom you just ripped into, totally dominate his opponent because of the "mistake" he apparently made, which he actually did intentionally as part of his game plan. Things like putting zealots in the front and storming your own units is obviously something you can comment on, but I guess it's good to be diplomatic about how you analyse games. You're one of my favoured casters after Apollo / Day9. | ||
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Bumblebee
3237 Posts
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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Testuser
6469 Posts
On December 04 2011 23:39 niteReloaded wrote: It's not about forcing humor, it's about not being too scared of the spotlight so that you become uptight, see? Speaking in binary, it's not about turning an 0 into a 1, it's about removing the 0 that's turning the 1 into a 0. So my advice -> try to relax, try to enjoy yourself more and maybe take the foot off the "personality breaks". Maybe imagine casting to your best buddies or something. You're definitely doing a good job with the analysis, but don't limit yourself into being just a human-trikoder who only calculates stuff and makes predictions. I actually think, that sometimes it IS about forcing humour. And I agree completely with AndAgain (quotes messing with ma brains), that that CAN become a big problem. Orb isn't doing it, and I'm not saying that bringing more personality would be bad, but as long it isn't being forced. Actually, we're all saying the same thing. Relax and just try not to force it orb, cause you're quite the amazing caster. An what Rekrul said about your image is spot on, it is important. | ||
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garbanzo
United States4046 Posts
Keep up the good work! | ||
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ooozer
Germany231 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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hazelynut
United States2195 Posts
Listen to your previous casts and see if you feel that way about any of your casts. Sometimes the issue is just letting go - speak how you would normally speak person-to-person instead of your stage voice. Great job! You're one of my favorite casters by far | ||
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monitor
United States2404 Posts
On December 04 2011 23:14 Vaeila wrote: To sum up Gretorp + Orb (only match ive seen you cast): Gretorp: "Those mutalisks have been VERY cost effective" Orb: "They were on attack move and not attacking probes" Gretorp: "Whatever" Lol unfortunately I have to sort of agree. But its still fun to listen to! Overall I think your casting is extremely good. As others have said, my only advice is to add more of your own personality into the casts. An unbias caster is always good, but sometimes its nice to have more excitement and flavor in the cast instead of just purely analyzing the game. However if you were matched with someone that had a different casting style (like DJwheat instead of Gretorp) it would be almost perfect <3. | ||
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
I'm serious | ||
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drooL
United Kingdom2108 Posts
On December 04 2011 11:12 Rekrul wrote: oh yeah, and get some new glasses something baller/fashiony, not standard nerd frame Yep definitely. You also talk fast, but it's fun to listen to. I think you're the fastest SC2 commentator. | ||
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Swede
New Zealand853 Posts
On December 04 2011 14:15 backtoback wrote: I notice you talk fast when exciting fights or events start to happen. Calm down and take deep breathes and it will slowly natural come out. Other than that, all is good orb! I love how he does that. It's the same thing Husky does and I think it's an easy way to add excitement to the game (talk fast and a little louder). My favourite part about Orb is his ability to speak really quickly while still articulating perfectly. It's not an easy thing to do. Like the others say though, just allow for a little humor to occur at times rather than always being 'professional' about things. | ||
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Malgrif
Canada1095 Posts
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iDope
Saudi Arabia223 Posts
As a spectator combos like Day9 + Husky or Day9 + DJWheat appeal to me the most because even when they screw up they are just ALWAYS entertaining to listen to and compliment each other very well. But I guess you can never have that sort of chemistry on the first attempt. Anyway, LOVE your casting and hope+want to see you at more events. | ||
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eoLithic
Norway221 Posts
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Waste
Sweden84 Posts
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Kuni
Austria765 Posts
On December 04 2011 11:02 Magnitoo wrote: Pretty much this. Other than that I really like you're casting, even from the ESV Korean Weekly. Same here. You're doing fine ! | ||
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Tantaburs
Canada1825 Posts
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
One thing you could improve though is to work with your cocasters better. Give them airtime - even when they say stupid things. Only interrupt them when it's really necessary (which is almost never the case). | ||
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faqqSen
Germany78 Posts
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norterrible
United States618 Posts
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Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
But in all seriousness I have always enjoyed your casting ever since I first saw you solo casting the Korean weekly. You do not have the benefit of casting with the same co caster over and over again (yet) as some of the other more prominent casters which is unfortunate because I think with the right co-caster you could instantly be another S-tier duo that every tournament is clamoring to hire. | ||
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Rombur
Belgium107 Posts
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AwfulPlayer
249 Posts
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Vehemus
United States586 Posts
Just speak up a little bit. Sometimes you're too quiet. You don't have to try to show personality in a way that isn't you. Just be yourself and continue your amazing analysis and genuine excitement. | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
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Diavlo
Belgium2915 Posts
Sometimes I wish Inc was a full time caster, but then i find myself wishing he would come back to his former level instead .Why can there be only one Geoff Robinson? Why? | ||
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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Senros
54 Posts
On December 04 2011 11:07 Ballack wrote: My main problem with you is that it is hard for me to separate the caster orb and the your personality while streaming. You know when you are throwing around words like "ni**er" and "retard", even though many of the people you direct those remarks at wasn't even trying to offend you. You just come across as an unserious person to me now. While raging is fun and entertaining for viewers, when you take it to that level it just becomes offensive. As for your casting, I've always liked it. You're a strong analyst and to seem to have a good chemistry with most of the people you cast with. Wouldn't mind some more jokes though, but I guess that's not your style. I have to agree with this post. While I don't have a problem with your casting (its pretty good) I just can't help remembering all those times when you would rage and just be really hypocritical on your stream. Hopefully this will improve with time. | ||
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FreedomMurder
Canada200 Posts
1. Normally you dont fall victim to this when you cast the Korean weekly, but at this live event it seemed as if you were trying to force the excitement onto the match instead of letting an exceptional match get you excited. 2. Be more patient. I find many casters get caught up in the action and instead of letting the game unfold. I saw the french player ToD cast some great games with Khaldor and he was an excellent caster. He was so patient and didnt rush his words. Always letting the game be the centre of attention and providing great analysis, and some humour for filler when needed. I really enjoyed this! It was much more relaxing to listen to and seemed much more professional. Other than those 2 things you are amazing orb! ORB FOR CODE A GSL! | ||
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Esk23
United States447 Posts
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Psycosquirrel
United States161 Posts
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Hula
United States9 Posts
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THM
Bulgaria1131 Posts
I don't like your pair with Gretorp however, but that's because I don't like Gretorp. | ||
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showbiz
United States66 Posts
On December 04 2011 11:32 Miraju wrote: really good casting not much to critic about but indeed new boss glasses please .Orb, please don't listen to these comments. You don't need new glasses. Yours are fine. If we can live in a world where there are fewer thick-rimmed hipster glasses, we will all be better off. Overall, I like your analytical approach to casting. Keep it up. | ||
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Swiv
Germany3674 Posts
i did not enjoy NASL2 so far, but i like your casting! Go on! | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
On December 05 2011 07:34 showbiz wrote: Orb, please don't listen to these comments. You don't need new glasses. Yours are fine. If we can live in a world where there are fewer thick-rimmed hipster glasses, we will all be better off. Overall, I like your analytical approach to casting. Keep it up. I don't know, I think Orb should get a pair of prescription sunglasses, and just wear those while he casts. | ||
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Remb
United States190 Posts
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SoniC_eu
Denmark1008 Posts
Keep it up & grats on a great casting career so far | ||
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RoyAlex
Norway420 Posts
On December 05 2011 06:02 FreedomMurder wrote: ORB FOR CODE A GSL! Hey, that's a great idea! I would love that! If that is possible for you, you should consider that Orb. It would surely be a nice life experience to have!! Loving your casting Orb, have watched you since beta.  Just keep practicing casting and maybe you will become a standard caster to see at all the big events, maybe even get to travle to some European events. Will be watching you in the future and hoping to see at some other events. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
Nice job overall and keep up the good work! | ||
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MrStorkie
United Kingdom697 Posts
On December 04 2011 10:58 Rekrul wrote: i think you're doing a great job with analysis but i'd like to see a little more personality and humor to flavor it up Agreed. On December 04 2011 11:12 Rekrul wrote: oh yeah, and get some new glasses something baller/fashiony, not standard nerd frame And this. I definitely enjoy your analytical-heavy style of casting. Keep it up! | ||
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ItsMeDomLee
Canada2732 Posts
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Kinshuk
India116 Posts
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
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algorithm0r
Canada486 Posts
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Piet Friet
Netherlands36 Posts
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StrinterN
Denmark531 Posts
On December 04 2011 10:58 Rekrul wrote: i think you're doing a great job with analysis but i'd like to see a little more personality and humor to flavor it up This what almost the exactly what i thought You are imo one of the better "analytic casters" but some "passion/personality" would be a nice touch! | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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Synwave
United States2803 Posts
Cheers and thanks for the work this past weekend! | ||
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CGolden
40 Posts
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Chylo
United States220 Posts
Positives; 1) Extremely clear speaking, you hardly ever misspeak 2) Excellent analysis, you're always really specific about where somebody messed up. 3) Great game knowledge, 4) no annoying habits, just really enjoyable, professional might be the right word. Negatives: (constructive criticism maybe) 1) Maybe try to be a little more specific about where the winning person went right, ie, you're really good at #2 above, try to switch it around on the positive side very specifically about the guy who won That's all I can think of. I don't agree with the people saying inject more humor and your personality. You do enough of this and humor isn't really needed. Listening to artosis and tasteless say "this guy is so good" "this guy is ACTUALLY so so good" or the nestea jokes for 5 minutes isn't enjoyable. Professional casters for other sports don't try to be humorous all day. I would just say improve your positives. I don't even know what race you play and I've heard you cast a lot. That's pretty good at being unbiased. Maybe try to increase your knowledge of the races you don't know as well. | ||
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Rorschach
United States623 Posts
Hope to see you casting at even more events in the future as you bring a lot of understanding and enjoyment with your casting... | ||
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GeorgeyBeats
United Kingdom338 Posts
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Lavi
Bangladesh793 Posts
To be better like other said some more personality... from what i seen tend to talk a bit linear, or either hyper fast. I think you could become similar to an artosis, just slow down a bit, you don't have to analyze everything but just focus on the meaningful stuff, that should make it so you don't have to talk in rapid fire at times. Instead you can have a varied pace to your speech maybe insightful calm and steady lows, screaming highs... things like that. Also maybe work in trademark things like artosis squeel "IMMM NESTAEAA" etc. would be a good way to inject some life in casts and differentiate yourself. | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
.Personally I think you do really well alone; most other casters sound mediocre to me and just do a very loud play by play or make the same unoriginal, tiresome jokes, and so I feel it would degrade the casting quality overall. I also like how you actually call players out when they do something silly, like on the Korean weekly when a player just let an scv scout into their base when they could have raised the supply depot . But you do it in a friendly yet exasperated way, so it sounds good. | ||
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Cocoba
Canada352 Posts
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On February 14 2012 10:23 Cocoba wrote: In my opinion, your casting is fine Orb. However, your constantly missing things that are happening on the mini-map which take away from the overall enjoyment of your casts. It's understandable to miss stuff during a hectic portion of a game, but I've seen you miss things such as really important battles and only end up seeing them 5 seconds afterwards where as you were previously just looking at bases on the map. So to sum up, casting is great, however, if you want to make the most enjoyable casts, work on spotting as much as you can on your minimap and be on top of things such as main engagements. Thanks, this is something I constantly try to work on. Being the caster AND the cameraman at the same time is a lot of work and pressure, and often times it's just too much for your brain to keep up with everything at once. Being colorblind and having color combinations like red/green or blue/purple (for example) certainly doesn't help either. I want to get better but it's something that's quite hard to work on. You might pay attention just fine to the minimap 99% of the time, but all it takes is over a 6-hour casting block messing up 1 time and happening to be tunnel-visioning during the moment something important happens and BAM, it's too late when you go look at the aftermath. Still there is no excuse, it is just something I will have to work to improve as much as possible. If players would actually start following tournament rules and use the mandatory color assignments this wouldn't be nearly as big of a problem though... | ||
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Hexxed
United States202 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Rockztar
Denmark210 Posts
On February 14 2012 13:35 Hexxed wrote: Personally I think you are a tool. Your casting comes off as obnoxious and arrogant. Which isn't far from the kid I met at a lan. The best thing you can do for your casting is not do it anymore. Sounds like this streamer is jelly at Orb's popularity. Love your casting Orb! I didn't like it so much at first, when you just started out for NASL, but you've easily become one of your casters that can combine enthusiasm as well as game knowledge. It makes me sad about your colour blindness. Should force the players to pick other colours lawl. Anyways keep developing the way you have, can only go the right way from there. Hope you get hired for some of the live tournament events would be awesome. Good luck! | ||
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ASLRightNow
United States45 Posts
Some constructive feedback: 1) the enhanced colors is not a pleasing way to view the game, as it is something most players and viewers aren't accustomed to seeing. 2) the red haze comes down when you read chat. You react far too much to the trolls and sometimes become angry. Also, you sometimes give off a vibe of not caring for your audience. In one Korean weekly I caught you saying "well I don't think you all understand how this works" in response to some analysis by chat. This shows a bit of superiority. You also bad mouth your chat sometimes, we know it's directed at trolls, but it still feels like it is at us. 3) some of your reactions to in game events are easy to identify as not genuine. For instance, a game winning push, the emotion is somewhat empty. Having an emotional reaction to the game is very entertaining, that is what makes casters great. I hope this helps man. I hope to see you grow as a successful caster. | ||
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Kamais Ookin
Canada591 Posts
I think my I have to go to the doctors tomorrow, my ears are bleeding. | ||
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Ectrid
Germany51 Posts
but, you could work on a more positive attitude, perhaps some storys and jokes. i can see him beeing a good dual caster with a funny and entertaining co-caster | ||
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Rorschach
United States623 Posts
On March 01 2012 04:03 ASLRightNow wrote: Orb, I hope this feedback helps! Some constructive feedback: 1) the enhanced colors is not a pleasing way to view the game, as it is something most players and viewers aren't accustomed to seeing. 2) the red haze comes down when you read chat. You react far too much to the trolls and sometimes become angry. Also, you sometimes give off a vibe of not caring for your audience. In one Korean weekly I caught you saying "well I don't think you all understand how this works" in response to some analysis by chat. This shows a bit of superiority. You also bad mouth your chat sometimes, we know it's directed at trolls, but it still feels like it is at us. 3) some of your reactions to in game events are easy to identify as not genuine. For instance, a game winning push, the emotion is somewhat empty. Having an emotional reaction to the game is very entertaining, that is what makes casters great. I hope this helps man. I hope to see you grow as a successful caster. I disagree, I really appreciate orb separating his casting from the emotion of the game. I hate when casters try and over hype shit. It gets old every other game to hear "those are the best FF I have ever seen" and takes away credibility.... Nothing wrong with getting excited once in a awhile BUT orb has a near perfect balance of casting + analysis.... orb, don't change a damn thing! | ||
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chambertin
United States1704 Posts
When you finally have someone obs. -ing for you, I'm sure you will go from great to fantastic! Keep up the good work... | ||
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
On March 05 2012 09:03 chambertin wrote: Just wanted to note how amazing you are, so much criticism in this thread (sigh)! When you finally have someone obs. -ing for you, I'm sure you will go from great to fantastic! Keep up the good work... There is supposed to be a lot of criticism in this thread -- it's what he asked for. | ||
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xlava
United States676 Posts
However, don't forget the score bar -_- | ||
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skyflyfish
Canada499 Posts
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romelako
United States373 Posts
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
Today was the first time I really watched one of his casts. I sat down today on my day off and really gave him a chance. The showcase matches of HuK vs IdrA / Incontrol vs Machine just ended. Initially, I'm trying to find something that puts this guy above other casters, or what EG is seeing in him to move him into the lair. I'm not seeing it at the moment. I feel like there's a few main problems. You're not exciting. You're play by play is actually like too good, if that makes any sense. I feel like you're trying way to hard to be specific with the game that its impossible for your commentary to be fun at all. All the big name guys like Husky, Day9, Artosis, etc they all know how to be exciting. I just didn't see any of that from you. I agree with what others were saying about your emotions being somewhat empty. I also agree that you're very clear but you have like no pro experience so you're not as interesting as someone else. No good stories/jokes sc related. Even further, I hate to say it but I kind of agree with that Hexxed guy. I got a really bad vibe from your intro to the EG lair video. You come off as this big guy caster in the sc2 scene. Saying 'oh youll learn stuff' in your video. That might be true but you simply don't have the playing/gaming background for that comment. Not saying you have to be a pro to teach while casting, just a thought. I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think you have a signature quality about your casting and its kind of just very basic when an esport needs exciting casters with distinct qualities. People like TotalBiscuit that incorporate reddit stuff/aka stuff with the community into his casts. You seem like you'd be fucking amazing casting like Baseball or something. I've said many times that itmeJP just doesn't have it when he casts, you have it, but I don't know if its a style of SC2. A lot of peeps seem to like you though so keep it up. I guess your style just simply doesn't fit me. Good luck. EDIT: You know what I think I just figured it out... Orb, I think you're boring as shit as a solo caster. However if you had some ex-pro as a color guy to give some jokes/give secondary comments on your clear and solid play-by-play commentary I think it would be great. You're a very good specific caster. Just feel like you'd be better as a part of a combo. I think that sums it up much better from my points. | ||
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Durn
Canada360 Posts
If I had to be critical of him, I'd say to watch the excitement and try to make sure it's genuine. Most people can see through a false generation (IE yelling, speaking faster, etc). There were a few times when he'd get really excited over something really small that was clearly not a big deal (Zergling counterattack clearly going to get blocked, that kind of thing). Other than that, keep it up dude. You're in such a unique opportunity and I'm excited to see where you go with this! | ||
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haka
United States1414 Posts
1) Don't read chat. Or, if you do, don't let it get to your head. And if you do let it get to your head, don't get mad when you're live. It makes the broadcast feel awkward like dad just hit mom. I remember one time you got incredibly angry and banned someone in chat who said "ww" meant well won. (An aside: I also remember an incident where Diamond banned people who were being critical, not disrespectful, towards your casting in chat.) 2) Player bashing: Casters, observers, and audience members don't have fog of war. That said, it is easy to lambaste players who do something WE know is suboptimal. You're smart and we know you're smart. However, your tone often takes that of arrogance when analyzing players and their choices. On personality: I don't think you should force it on yourself. I catch you talking in tastos-isms often and it comes off awkward. Just be yourself (how cliche, I know) and if you can add something witty or funny, do it. That's about it. Great work regardless, thanks a lot. | ||
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Kamais Ookin
Canada591 Posts
If your going to be a serious caster and frequent then get a mic to match that profession and/or fix your sound settings. | ||
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Durn
Canada360 Posts
On March 05 2012 09:39 Kamais Ookin wrote: Why is nobody so far criticizing his shitty mic? Am I the only guy with a bandage on my ear drum right now? 99% of the chat-room had the same problem an hour ago. If your going to be a serious caster and frequent then get a mic to match that profession and/or fix your sound settings. I agree, the audio was pretty trash but I fault the fact that Orb arrived like 2 days ago. I'm absolutely certain that EG has the resources to set Orb up with some sick equipment. Give that issue some time. | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
Overall, I enjoy the analytical style of casting that you have, but I think that you need to be consistent in how you represent yourself. Don't shit on the game while you stream, and then talk about how great it is when you cast. When you flip flop between shitting on the game and then casting like the game is something special, it makes me think you are fake. How you present yourself in public via lans, streams, etc does impact how people perceive you. Take someone like Day[9] who is the exact same guy regardless of what he is doing in the public light. He is always goofy, excited, and displays a genuine love for the game whether he is on State of the Game or casting a major tournament. Its incredibly endearing, and I think you would benefit from trying to emulate that in your public persona. I'm not saying you should act like someone you're not. You have to be you, but be consistent. | ||
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DreamChaser
1649 Posts
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NOOBALOPSE
Canada802 Posts
Try to talk slower when you cast though, sometimes we can`t tell what you`re saying Keep the tongue twisting for later <33 bro ! Keep it up! | ||
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cactusjack914
United States183 Posts
When you flip flop between shitting on the game and then casting like the game is something special, it makes me think you are fake In between games when they show you speaking, you seem like you exaggerate every facial expression and mannerism. Otherwise, I love you orb, keep up the hard work. | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
To address/respond to some points in case the commenters were curious: -Please don't take any information about me from that eg intro video haha. It was edited so the questions they asked were taken out and also responses were cut mid-sentence reality-tv style. When I watched it myself I was like "damn I seem like just a bit of a douche" LOL -As I've said before, please try to understand the distinction between these three styles of casting: Solo casting while observing (ridiculously difficult, especially if the players choose dumb colors like red/green or red/pink HINT HINT), Duo casting while observing (much easier as you get some time to stop talking and think about what's going on and pay more attention to the minimap etc), and duo casting while not observing (obviously the optimal setup to get the "best" performance out of a caster). I don't want to make excuses, but please keep this in mind when commenting on my games that I not only solo cast but also control the camera for -With regards to the "flipflopping" my opinion on the game, I think this is probably the thing that is most-often misunderstood about me. First off, when I play starcraft myself, I get frustrated. It's a frustrating game, and if you are constantly watching professional koreans play, and then play yourself and see how garbage you are, it gets really maddening. Little annoying aspects of the game coupled with that frustration can make me go off on rants about how awful certain design decisions were by blizzard, but the majority of it is venting. Over 99% of what I say when I stream my own games is just me venting and saying things I don't really mean. I think since I streamed before I was casting, people get this idea that the streamer me is who I really am, and that I'm being fake when I cast or something. This couldn't be further from the truth. I'm usually a pretty reasonable and happy guy IRL. SC2 just really brings out that rage/frustration and I just roll with it and say whatever comes to my mind. I think the biggest distinction is that while I LOVE watching starcraft, I don't LOVE playing. I enjoy playing (sometimes more than others), but at the same time I get really mad and frustrated. When I'm watching starcraft (casting or just casually watching), there's nothing to get mad at, so I just get to enjoy the beauty of both of the players' strategies and how they interact. I hope that clears the issue up at least a little. I honestly don't hate starcraft, I just say things like that to vent my anger and frustration. I apologize if this negatively affects your ability to enjoy my casts | ||
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(Kaiser)
United States21 Posts
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
On March 05 2012 09:48 Joedaddy wrote: I can't separate Orb the caster from Orb the streamer. I've watched your stream in the past and listened to you rage about how terrible SC2 is. I've heard you talk about how "retarded" Blizzard is, and how much you hate SC2. You have trashed this game to such an extent that when I hear you casting I can't take you seriously as a caster. All I see when you cast is someone who enjoys being e-famous, and is willing to garner that casting a game they absolutely despise. Overall, I enjoy the analytical style of casting that you have, but I think that you need to be consistent in how you represent yourself. Don't shit on the game while you stream, and then talk about how great it is when you cast. When you flip flop between shitting on the game and then casting like the game is something special, it makes me think you are fake. How you present yourself in public via lans, streams, etc does impact how people perceive you. Take someone like Day[9] who is the exact same guy regardless of what he is doing in the public light. He is always goofy, excited, and displays a genuine love for the game whether he is on State of the Game or casting a major tournament. Its incredibly endearing, and I think you would benefit from trying to emulate that in your public persona. I'm not saying you should act like someone you're not. You have to be you, but be consistent. Have you ever watched Artosis stream? | ||
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Kamais Ookin
Canada591 Posts
On March 05 2012 11:11 -orb- wrote: Honestly I don't have a problem with any of the things you outlined. All I care about is the shitty mic you were using today and your promise on getting a competent one otherwise I'm never going to watch again. It was so bad that my eardrum now has an infection from the tear of shittyness.Thanks for all the feedback again. To address/respond to some points in case the commenters were curious: -Please don't take any information about me from that eg intro video haha. It was edited so the questions they asked were taken out and also responses were cut mid-sentence reality-tv style. When I watched it myself I was like "damn I seem like just a bit of a douche" LOL -As I've said before, please try to understand the distinction between these three styles of casting: Solo casting while observing (ridiculously difficult, especially if the players choose dumb colors like red/green or red/pink HINT HINT), Duo casting while observing (much easier as you get some time to stop talking and think about what's going on and pay more attention to the minimap etc), and duo casting while not observing (obviously the optimal setup to get the "best" performance out of a caster). I don't want to make excuses, but please keep this in mind when commenting on my games that I not only solo cast but also control the camera for -With regards to the "flipflopping" my opinion on the game, I think this is probably the thing that is most-often misunderstood about me. First off, when I play starcraft myself, I get frustrated. It's a frustrating game, and if you are constantly watching professional koreans play, and then play yourself and see how garbage you are, it gets really maddening. Little annoying aspects of the game coupled with that frustration can make me go off on rants about how awful certain design decisions were by blizzard, but the majority of it is venting. Over 99% of what I say when I stream my own games is just me venting and saying things I don't really mean. I think since I streamed before I was casting, people get this idea that the streamer me is who I really am, and that I'm being fake when I cast or something. This couldn't be further from the truth. I'm usually a pretty reasonable and happy guy IRL. SC2 just really brings out that rage/frustration and I just roll with it and say whatever comes to my mind. I think the biggest distinction is that while I LOVE watching starcraft, I don't LOVE playing. I enjoy playing (sometimes more than others), but at the same time I get really mad and frustrated. When I'm watching starcraft (casting or just casually watching), there's nothing to get mad at, so I just get to enjoy the beauty of both of the players' strategies and how they interact. I hope that clears the issue up at least a little. I honestly don't hate starcraft, I just say things like that to vent my anger and frustration. I apologize if this negatively affects your ability to enjoy my casts | ||
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Kuni
Austria765 Posts
Style comes with time ... Whether people wanna see you doing detail analysis or just TB-casting is personal preference. | ||
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Jinsho
United Kingdom3101 Posts
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AGsc
Canada120 Posts
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
On March 05 2012 09:48 Joedaddy wrote: I can't separate Orb the caster from Orb the streamer. I've watched your stream in the past and listened to you rage about how terrible SC2 is. I've heard you talk about how "retarded" Blizzard is, and how much you hate SC2. You have trashed this game to such an extent that when I hear you casting I can't take you seriously as a caster. All I see when you cast is someone who enjoys being e-famous, and is willing to garner that casting a game they absolutely despise. I agree with this part. I've watched his stream about 5 times and each time I just see him raging at chat, at the game and calling everyone who beats him trash. It really lowered my opinion of him and I can't see him the same way now when casting. I remember when he first started casting the korean weeklies someone asked him why he doesn't cast mlg and stuff and he said something like he's not known enough yet and told the viewers to go bug the tourneys and ask them to let him cast. Then he got his casting break at NASL and I dunno, he just doesn't seem humble at all. He's always just raging at his chat and viewers and telling them to go fuck off. I see him as trying to impersonate idra with the bm. | ||
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Timurid
Guyana (French)656 Posts
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MuATaran
Canada231 Posts
On March 05 2012 12:04 Canucklehead wrote: I agree with this part. I've watched his stream about 5 times and each time I just see him raging at chat, at the game and calling everyone who beats him trash. It really lowered my opinion of him and I can't see him the same way now when casting. I remember when he first started casting the korean weeklies someone asked him why he doesn't cast mlg and stuff and he said something like he's not known enough yet and told the viewers to go bug the tourneys and ask them to let him cast. Then he got his casting break at NASL and I dunno, he just doesn't seem humble at all. He's always just raging at his chat and viewers and telling them to go fuck off. I see him as trying to impersonate idra with the bm. Who cares? The fact is that he is pretty outspoken about what he thinks about the game and that is one of the reason I LOVE his stream. I hate it when players/casters (casters more often) try to make is seam like the game is perfect and that blizzard is doing the best job ever rather than actually saying what they think. Now if in the middle of a cast for NASL or whatever he started raging about balance that might be a little different because then he is representing an organization. As far as raging at his chat I just think that is funny so I guess that I am bias on that point | ||
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openbox1
1393 Posts
That just gets old fast and I'm wondering who are you to be so high and mighty considering you're not an S-class player and you have the advantage of complete map awareness and nothing on the line. Other than that jarring issue, you do a good job of tracking/obsing the game. At least not that I see you missing too much. You seem knowledgeable about the likely strategies and metagame. I think if you fix this "you are so bad" attitude, you'd be a top caster with more exposure. Especially since you don't have a foreign accent have a decent casting voice. | ||
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how2TL
1197 Posts
On March 05 2012 12:04 Canucklehead wrote: I agree with this part. I've watched his stream about 5 times and each time I just see him raging at chat, at the game and calling everyone who beats him trash. It really lowered my opinion of him and I can't see him the same way now when casting. I remember when he first started casting the korean weeklies someone asked him why he doesn't cast mlg and stuff and he said something like he's not known enough yet and told the viewers to go bug the tourneys and ask them to let him cast. Then he got his casting break at NASL and I dunno, he just doesn't seem humble at all. He's always just raging at his chat and viewers and telling them to go fuck off. I see him as trying to impersonate idra with the bm. LOL it would make my week if you were the same kind of people who criticize casters for trying to make an obviously bad/boring/over game sound interesting (ie their job) because they're not being "honest". You sound the exact same as the people QQ'ing in the GSL finals LR thread about Tastosis saying that it was a good finals when it was "obviously not". | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
On March 05 2012 12:31 how2TL wrote: LOL it would make my week if you were the same kind of people who criticize casters for trying to make an obviously bad/boring/over game sound interesting (ie their job) because they're not being "honest". You sound the exact same as the people QQ'ing in the GSL finals LR thread about Tastosis saying that it was a good finals when it was "obviously not". Nope, I don't have a problem with the scenarios you described as they're pretty divergent and different so not sure why you compared the two. 1 is just trying to generate excitement and trying to make the cast enjoyable. The other is just disrespecting everyone and everything and going on long swearing rants. However, I see how there's an audience for that kind of streaming. It's just not my cup of tea and the same reason why I don't watch streams like destiny. | ||
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1hpBuiltForLove
Canada89 Posts
BTW - Husky is Hilarious(You two are not compareable by any grounds of substance). You are super Pro. You went to school, or were self-taught, or there will be a school because of what you do.. You are energetic, and I always notice an aura of sportmanship and manners around you. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
maybe while you are talking about whatever point you are making about a build or strat, keep your eyes on the minimap incase something happens. | ||
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
good casting though, jsut look at the little things id love to see you have more in depth game knowledge and bring your casting to a whole nother level | ||
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Candadar
2049 Posts
On March 05 2012 12:14 MuATaran wrote: Who cares? The fact is that he is pretty outspoken about what he thinks about the game and that is one of the reason I LOVE his stream. I hate it when players/casters (casters more often) try to make is seam like the game is perfect and that blizzard is doing the best job ever rather than actually saying what they think. Now if in the middle of a cast for NASL or whatever he started raging about balance that might be a little different because then he is representing an organization. As far as raging at his chat I just think that is funny so I guess that I am bias on that point It's called being professional. Something a lot of people don't seem to understand the concept of. | ||
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Logan_ps
United Kingdom118 Posts
edit: Just watched the EG Lair video - I've no idea why someone further up the thread said you came across as cocky (not the word they used, but it's 4.45am here and I must sleep so didn't go back and check). I thought it was a great intro vid - spot on. You even proclaim how thrilled you are to be living with and casting people you've followed as a fan since the beta ; that's honest and humble if you ask me. You've proved yourself dude. Now enjoy the rewards and remind yourself just how many trolls there are out there when/if reading chat - which through no fault of your own was badly in need of some heavy handed modding tonight, way out of control. | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On March 05 2012 13:42 LuckoftheIrish wrote: I only watched a bit but enjoyed what I watched. There were maybe a few blips here and there, but no caster is perfect. There were some issues with the microphone, 'wind' noise and clipping. The chat was fucking terrible, easily the worst I've seen on a stream that wasn't Idra's. Get yourself some extra mods. id say thats pretty expected on an IDrA VS HuK showmatch im sure if i had a knickle for every person who tuned in to watch HuK make IdrA Rquit id host a 100k prize pool tournament and fly every player to the moon to fight | ||
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Nudelfisk
Sweden104 Posts
It's evident that you try really hard and that you really want to be a great caster, although in my mind part of that is actually not trying so hard and letting other things besides your analysis shine through. People in this thread seem to be referring a lot to other casters who are a bit more relaxed, who let other parts besides the "analytical" part of their personality shine through which speaks to the listener on another level. So yeah, my advice is relax a bit. Obviously you're pretty good at analysing the game so stop trying to hard and let it come naturally. I think if you relaxed a bit you wouldn't come off as so arrogant and you wouldn't speak over your co-casters to the same degree and stuff like that. | ||
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eGoTricKShoT
United States46 Posts
i feel its kind of pathetic that you try to act rad and get blazed and laced on your stream... you're a nerd. a lot of us blaze but don't need to broadcast it to be cool. dropping that 'act' (as it honestly seems) would be doing yourself a favor. until then i continue to avoid your stream and even EG and other streams you cast. people like you bug me. sorry but thats my feedback. be more professional. stop making yourself look foolish and stop trying so hard please | ||
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NexaS
United States202 Posts
On March 07 2012 03:36 eGoTricKShoT wrote: orb: i feel its kind of pathetic that you try to act rad and get blazed and laced on your stream... you're a nerd. a lot of us blaze but don't need to broadcast it to be cool. dropping that 'act' (as it honestly seems) would be doing yourself a favor. until then i continue to avoid your stream and even EG and other streams you cast. people like you bug me. sorry but thats my feedback. be more professional. stop making yourself look foolish and stop trying so hard please He smokes on camera? | ||
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Brandish
United States339 Posts
I don't actually know if you act terrible on stream, because all I'm going by is the responses I've seen, but I really like your casting and actually looked forward each day to the ESV korean weeklys | ||
Chill
Calgary25981 Posts
On March 07 2012 03:36 eGoTricKShoT wrote: be more professional. stop trying so hard please lol? | ||
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Sherbople
Canada158 Posts
On March 05 2012 09:48 Joedaddy wrote: I can't separate Orb the caster from Orb the streamer. I've watched your stream in the past and listened to you rage about how terrible SC2 is. I've heard you talk about how "retarded" Blizzard is, and how much you hate SC2. You have trashed this game to such an extent that when I hear you casting I can't take you seriously as a caster. All I see when you cast is someone who enjoys being e-famous, and is willing to garner that casting a game they absolutely despise. Gotta say I agree with this. Raging at the game is one thing, but raging at your viewers who are supporting you is just pathetic. I just have a bad taste in my mouth from your stream. But honestly I'll get over it and I'm sure many people will as well. Your actual casting is pretty good, just keep doing what you're doing and eventually people will understand that you're not the person you seemed to be on your personal stream. I think if there were some interviews or clips where we got to know you a bit more outside of streaming/casting, it would really help you get over some of the bad impressions you've made due to frustration over sc2. Anyways I hope you take this as a positive thing and don't take this as me just taking a shot at you | ||
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eGoTricKShoT
United States46 Posts
maybe you misunderstood..? im not exactly sure what you are lawling at.. but what i meant is to stop trying so hard to be someone who is 'cool' (i.e. raging, smoking, etc) and just be more of a professional person. when your face becomes the face of tournaments/streams etc, then project a good image for the people employing you hope that cleared things up for our CombatEx roflstomping hero  | ||
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
On March 07 2012 05:07 eGoTricKShoT wrote: maybe you misunderstood..? im not exactly sure what you are lawling at.. but what i meant is to stop trying so hard to be someone who is 'cool' (i.e. raging, smoking, etc) and just be more of a professional person. when your face becomes the face of tournaments/streams etc, then project a good image for the people employing you hope that cleared things up for our CombatEx roflstomping hero Yeah stop smoking dude, it's hurting Esports! | ||
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eGoTricKShoT
United States46 Posts
On March 07 2012 05:19 Kleinmuuhg wrote: Yeah stop smoking dude, it's hurting Esports! i have this weird feeling you think im talking about cigarettes... lawl... i have nothing against people who blaze, but if i was a tournament coordinator i would definitely not want someone representing me who projects a poor public opinion and acts fake | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
Dont get me wrong, he can do or say whatever he wants, i dont have to watch him (and i dont), but it seems kinda "off" to me. I guess the shot with "acting cool, idrastyle" is pretty much dead on. With the small difference that Idra actually knows what hes talking about (most of the times at least), and plays decent, whereas orb refers to "bad players not playing pro enough" - that was his excuse most of the times. The only game where he actually was not BM all over the place was where an opponent kissed his butt right of the start, recognizing him etc. Dont know, pretty two-faced. I dont like that in any kind of human, regardless of status or whatnot - its just painful to watch. | ||
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perestain
Germany308 Posts
We already have enough casters who just go "ooooh" and "aaaahh" over pixel explosions, this gets really boring after a while. Having people dress and act like tv news reporters to appear "professional" while doing this doesnt help either, its just hilarious. Then again, I am a person who is not watching any tv whatsoever for similar reasons, so I probably represent a niche opinion here. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On March 07 2012 05:59 m4inbrain wrote: Watched his stream and got kinda confused. He obviously does not like starcraft 2, or blizzard - and he insulted randomly in the streamchat and gamechat his "followers" - what is he actually doing in the SC2 community? Dont get me wrong, he can do or say whatever he wants, i dont have to watch him (and i dont), but it seems kinda "off" to me. I guess the shot with "acting cool, idrastyle" is pretty much dead on. With the small difference that Idra actually knows what hes talking about (most of the times at least), and plays decent, whereas orb refers to "bad players not playing pro enough" - that was his excuse most of the times. The only game where he actually was not BM all over the place was where an opponent kissed his butt right of the start, recognizing him etc. Dont know, pretty two-faced. I dont like that in any kind of human, regardless of status or whatnot - its just painful to watch. ^^This is feedback for his casting not his stream. If you have watched his actual casting you know he keeps it quite proffessional. If you don't like his stream then that's fine but you seem to take what he says far too serious. It's in the same style as Destiny. It's not for everyone but if you listen to him enough you'd know that your current view of him is faulty. | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On March 07 2012 06:08 nam nam wrote: ^^This is feedback for his casting not his stream. If you have watched his actual casting you know he keeps it quite proffessional. If you don't like his stream then that's fine but you seem to take what he says far too serious. It's in the same style as Destiny. It's not for everyone but if you listen to him enough you'd know that your current view of him is faulty. Maybe i was not really clear. I dont like his casting. He may have knowledge (to some extend at least), but alot of people have that. But he is a wise-ass (i think its the right word, in german it looks different - "Klugscheißer"), and you can hear that while hes casting. | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
I rage at the few retards in chat that feel the need to educate me with their lack of any knowledge of sc2. There's quite a difference. I even mention when I do it sometimes that I am not yelling at all viewers, just those select assholes. As for smoking on camera, for 1: I have never smoked on camera before, ever. So I guess you can just keep making up whatever bullshit you want. And 2: I smoke regularly, so sorry if sometimes people ask me to stream and I'm not sober and I oblige to do them a favor. QQ more about it. The times I'm sober and then smoke off-stream (but during streaming) are only when I get frustrated enough with what I'm playing that I feel I want to just relax and cool off a bit. I have never once tried to "pose" as a stoner... that would do nothing but hurt my viewership... Also I love when people try to say I'm "acting like idra" when I was streaming sc2 with the same rage I always have months before he ever streamed his rage... | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On March 07 2012 05:07 eGoTricKShoT wrote: maybe you misunderstood..? im not exactly sure what you are lawling at.. but what i meant is to stop trying so hard to be someone who is 'cool' (i.e. raging, smoking, etc) and just be more of a professional person. when your face becomes the face of tournaments/streams etc, then project a good image for the people employing you hope that cleared things up for our CombatEx roflstomping hero How can you think raging and smoking weed is a way to act cool? Are you mentally deficient? Those two things are the #1 and #2 ways to alienate yourself as a streamer from the vast majority of viewers. All it does is hurt my viewer count, so I don't see how you could possibly think I'm doing it on purpose as an "act." I wish I could ban retards from my threads just like you can with blogs | ||
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SPcrusader
Norway99 Posts
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Darkfrog
Austria211 Posts
Let me assume for a second that it is true: We alle rage in private over certain things and use very heave cusswords, we would never ever use in public... well because it is simply wrong. The difference being: as soon as you stream you are a public person and as such you should not be racist and or/sexist in whatever way. If it is all made up: forget everything I wrote. I never watched your stream and barely know you as a caster. | ||
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Kiyo.
United States2284 Posts
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laharl23
United States582 Posts
On March 07 2012 09:03 -orb- wrote: How can you think raging and smoking weed is a way to act cool? Are you mentally deficient? Those two things are the #1 and #2 ways to alienate yourself as a streamer from the vast majority of viewers. All it does is hurt my viewer count, so I don't see how you could possibly think I'm doing it on purpose as an "act." I wish I could ban retards from my threads just like you can with blogs Calling people retards and mentally deficient isn't going to help your views either, so just stop before you make yourself look even worse than you already do. | ||
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Bart
494 Posts
On March 08 2012 12:04 Kiyo. wrote: You should probably stop calling people "retards" as well. qft | ||
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tofubeans
United States794 Posts
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
On March 07 2012 09:03 -orb- wrote: How can you think raging and smoking weed is a way to act cool? Are you mentally deficient? Those two things are the #1 and #2 ways to alienate yourself as a streamer from the vast majority of viewers. All it does is hurt my viewer count, so I don't see how you could possibly think I'm doing it on purpose as an "act." I wish I could ban retards from my threads just like you can with blogs +1 respect for orb anything that orb has said on stream is comparable to the stuff that destiny and others say all the time... orb isn't bad at all. and his casting has been improving since forever | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
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quickclickz
United States81 Posts
And I don't know what else to think of people who believe orb is trying to act "cool" when it's clearly obvious these "cool things" would alienate his viewers, so yes retard and mentally deficient would be viable adjectives for those people described above. You prefer him saying "I'm pretty sure you have an IQ of a rock?" to explain the complete lack of logic being displayed. | ||
tofucake
Hyrule19077 Posts
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CScythe
Canada810 Posts
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Cylluus
United States153 Posts
This thread is not for his personal stream, it's for feedback on his professional casting. That being said, I should leave some feedback of my own. Love your casting; I really enjoyed watching the Korean Weekly especially since you guys brought in Adebisi. You two make a great combination, although I must say you sometimes tend to keep him silent with as much as you say. I do think that's because you solo casted for a while and you probably just got used to talking a lot. I love how much knowledge of the game you have and how analytical you are. Keep it up! | ||
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Ressonance
Brazil14 Posts
On March 08 2012 12:35 Cylluus wrote: Kind of annoying to see people commenting on his personal stream behavior. This thread is not for his personal stream, it's for feedback on his professional casting. That being said, I should leave some feedback of my own. Love your casting; I really enjoyed watching the Korean Weekly especially since you guys brought in Adebisi. You two make a great combination, although I must say you sometimes tend to keep him silent with as much as you say. I do think that's because you solo casted for a while and you probably just got used to talking a lot. I love how much knowledge of the game you have and how analytical you are. Keep it up! It would be ok if he BM'd in smurf accounts or when he is not streamming. A caster can't BM, it's unprofessional as fuck and I think people want esports to be something serious, right? Sorry for my bad english btw. | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
On March 08 2012 12:35 Cylluus wrote: Kind of annoying to see people commenting on his personal stream behavior. This thread is not for his personal stream, it's for feedback on his professional casting. That being said, I should leave some feedback of my own. Love your casting; I really enjoyed watching the Korean Weekly especially since you guys brought in Adebisi. You two make a great combination, although I must say you sometimes tend to keep him silent with as much as you say. I do think that's because you solo casted for a while and you probably just got used to talking a lot. I love how much knowledge of the game you have and how analytical you are. Keep it up! Random ladder player, then yeah it doesn't matter. A caster doing it? Of course it matters. Can you imagine if day9 acted like orb does on his dailies? Your personal stream reflects your true character. | ||
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Blackhawk13
United States442 Posts
If you want to be a public figure you have to learn how to act like one and control yourself in any public setting. You don't see any professional person of any organization calling people "retards" and "niggers" in any public setting do you? It is not acceptable that just because you're on your on stream you think you can say whatever you want. There will be consequences down the road as far as getting casting jobs.. Why would anyone choose to hire and associate themselves with a person that publicly makes these types of remarks? I wouldn't. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
On March 08 2012 12:23 quickclickz wrote: ^ Typing words instead of using your fists and engaging in violence is actually NOT a good way to control your anger? And I don't know what else to think of people who believe orb is trying to act "cool" when it's clearly obvious these "cool things" would alienate his viewers, so yes retard and mentally deficient would be viable adjectives for those people described above. You prefer him saying "I'm pretty sure you have an IQ of a rock?" to explain the complete lack of logic being displayed. Insulting others with racial and hateful slurs is NOT controlling your anger. Simply calling someone names also isn't an effective way to demonstrate their lack of intelligence. If orb was interested in people in his stream chat being logical or right, or people he plays/encounters in general, the best way to get them to understand him would be with a simple logical explanation of the flaws in their thinking. Orb isn't interested in that, or else is pursuing it in a foolish manner; what orb appears from his actions to be concerned with, is whether he is the better or "superior" person, so he demeans others with racial slurs etc. to make them seem worse than hi or "inferior". tl;dr: orb just wants to assert his superiority or else he would explain instead of rage | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
After the post of you calling someone a racial slur, I will no longer be watching your casts. I can deal with BM, I think we all can to some degree. We love idra etc. But racial slurs is taking it a few steps too far. | ||
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boxturtle
United States224 Posts
On March 08 2012 13:37 figq wrote: Orb's occasional BM on ladder is since forever and is unique and complementary to his otherwise highly intelligent character. People living under rocks now throwing them around. As though Artosis doesn't rage hard on ladder too occasionally. If Artosis went around calling people the n-word, I'd want him gone ASAP too. EDIT: This isn't only about those pictures on reddit, Orb did this in beta too. | ||
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Ectrid
Germany51 Posts
On March 08 2012 13:27 Ressonance wrote: It would be ok if he BM'd in smurf accounts or when he is not streamming. A caster can't BM, it's unprofessional as fuck and I think people want esports to be something serious, right? Sorry for my bad english btw. that's just absolutely fascistic... i want e-sports to be something real, not serious... not a fucking marketing joke, where everything comes down to domestic synchronization, just to fit the masses and to make the most money possible. while orb can do what ever he likes on his own personal stream, i don't think he will have much success with his current attitude on an international and big audience. but that comes down to the viewer ship and the producers. | ||
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AGsc
Canada120 Posts
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Insomni7
667 Posts
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
On March 08 2012 13:52 Mohdoo wrote: Orb, After the post of you calling someone a racial slur, I will no longer be watching your casts. I can deal with BM, I think we all can to some degree. We love idra etc. But racial slurs is taking it a few steps too far. He said it was someone else on his account, yes, it is his fault to an extent, but to say at the least EG will be keeping a very short leesh on him. On actual feedback, Orb you work really well with someone like incontrol, but I'm not a fan of you with someone like Gretorp. | ||
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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Leifish
851 Posts
So I guess just work on what seems to be a deep-set, inherent, and ingrained racism and your casting will be perfect. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
But sharing accounts is bad karma so don't do it :p. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
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figq
12519 Posts
On March 08 2012 14:02 boxturtle wrote: Orb didn't call a person "nigger", he used "nigger" as a derogatory adjective for the strategy itself, not the person. "Nigger" used in a general derogatory way is actually very common among black people and is anything but a sign of racism in this case.If Artosis went around calling people the n-word, I'd want him gone ASAP too. EDIT: This isn't only about those pictures on reddit, Orb did this in beta too. | ||
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Trevoc
United States145 Posts
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stillborn
Germany119 Posts
I've been watching your casting ever since you started doing the Korean weekly. You have a very cool way of describing individual play styles. You always compare styles to something you've seen in different ways - and you know quite a lot of Korean underground players. I'm a pretty high ranked EU Master player myself, and i think you state the phases and advantages the players have in the games you cast verryverry well. Normally I have to disagree with casters' statements quite often, but you do it just fine. continue the great work! | ||
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supsun
United Kingdom343 Posts
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wichenks
Canada153 Posts
However, your casting is superb, from a plat player like me, I find your analysis very interesting. And you have a way of speaking that is unlike any other caster. A lot of times when other casters will miss things on the production tab or the minimap, and i cringe because they don't see them, you don't miss em. So for that i am thankful. Also you don't derail the commentary too much with meaningless jokes or tangents, unless nothing is really happening in the game, in which case a little banter is alright with me. All in all, good work, ill be tuning into as much EGMCSL as I can, so keep up the awesome job | ||
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TheRealArtemis
687 Posts
Manner up, other then that you are doing great. Perhaps some witty remarks. Bring in something that the other casters lack. | ||
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Snake.69
Canada140 Posts
Keep up the good work, one of the good casters out there; underated for sure. | ||
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Vysage
United States117 Posts
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Shinzon
United States41 Posts
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
What I enjoy most about your casting is that you don't try to hard to be 'cute' or funny. You just call it straight for the most part. To be honest, it's refreshing to not have a caster not making a dumb wisecrack or smartass comment every other minute. SO PLEASE ... DON'T CHANGE. | ||
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Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
Edit: Also, I dislike your stream and hate people who rage constantly. But that has NOTHING to do with how good you are at casting, so people who keep bringing that up need to disappear. | ||
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
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willkillson
United States123 Posts
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Doomwish
438 Posts
I was a big fan of EG but the fact they chose to turn a blind eye to this type of behavior from one of their employees has opened my eyes about this organization. Can't support this type of behavior. | ||
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Filsby
Canada12 Posts
On March 08 2012 18:51 Doomwish wrote: Doing something like calling someone a nigger and then wishing for them to die painfully for hours is one thing. but then completely lying about it is the icing on the cake. I was a big fan of EG but the fact they chose to turn a blind eye to this type of behavior from one of their employees has opened my eyes about this organization. Can't support this type of behavior. This. | ||
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Go1den
England116 Posts
On March 08 2012 18:51 Doomwish wrote: Doing something like calling someone a nigger and then wishing for them to die painfully for hours is one thing. but then completely lying about it is the icing on the cake. I was a big fan of EG but the fact they chose to turn a blind eye to this type of behavior from one of their employees has opened my eyes about this organization. Can't support this type of behavior. Yeah, if you want feedback, start here. You don't have to be the most professional caster out there to win me over, but having some class might not hurt. | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On March 08 2012 18:51 Doomwish wrote: Doing something like calling someone a nigger and then wishing for them to die painfully for hours is one thing. but then completely lying about it is the icing on the cake. I was a big fan of EG but the fact they chose to turn a blind eye to this type of behavior from one of their employees has opened my eyes about this organization. Can't support this type of behavior. EG (scoots) did say that if he was lying that he would be dropped. I don't think its been proven that hes lying. And yeah, I saw the recent thread on reddit but wasn't that during the beta? Or was that recent? | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 08 2012 19:38 Angelbelow wrote: EG (scoots) did say that if he was lying that he would be dropped. I don't think its been proven that hes lying. And yeah, I saw the recent thread on reddit but wasn't that during the beta? Or was that recent? Is this shit true? Because if so Orb went from being my favorite caster to being the worst. Fuck this douche bag. | ||
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zOula...
United States898 Posts
To Quote SirScoots: "Jake has said this was not him last night, that he went to bed, that he has a couple of friends who he shared his account with - which obviously he's not supposed to do - and that he woke up to this shit storm. Now, you all can choose to believe Jake or not. We at EG are all going to believe him, but have told him that if we find out that this is not the case, your story does not flush, and this is your behaviour and you continue to act this way, then you will be very, very quickly removed from our world." theres alot of evidence in this thread that seems to prove that it was orb http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/qmvdb/orb_really_loves_the_n_word_on_ladder/ | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On March 08 2012 19:42 Defacer wrote: Is this shit true? Because if so Orb went from being my favorite caster to being the worst. Fuck this douche bag. ""Jake has said this was not him last night, that he went to bed, that he has a couple of friends who he shared his account with - which obviously he's not supposed to do - and that he woke up to this shit storm." .. If you believe it or not, is up to you. I for myself decided that i think hes lying. | ||
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nappeee
Finland169 Posts
"All he knows is one build that's all he can do of every single game of every single matchup cuz he's a fucking waste of human life, and a waste of human resources on this planet and he honestly deserves to be dead, like I mean that 100% percent sincerely. I often joke around about this kinda stuff but, um, I would actually be much happier if that guy were just killed in preferably the most painful way possible to be honest. I'm not even sadistic, in fact pain in others usually brings me pain, personally, but not at people like that, people like that I would love to just watch that guy burn, like honestly just be in the most amount of pain for hours and hours. I would revel in that." I feel like he needs help.. like honestly. | ||
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Swizzae
52 Posts
I Don't understand why Scoots sticks to him. and if Diamond from ESV stands to his words, Orb shouldn't be casting the ESV weekly anymore "Can't have racism in a global sport, end of story. I am shocked so many orgs and casters are having an issue figuring this out." This is definitely something the Starcraft community can't have at the moment as it's trying to grow and get more viewers. And I'm sure there are plenty of casters out there that could fill out Orb's spot without being a douche on ladder and represent himself and the community in an appropriate way. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
On March 08 2012 12:35 Cylluus wrote: Kind of annoying to see people commenting on his personal stream behavior. This thread is not for his personal stream, it's for feedback on his professional casting. "Hey, I'm perfectly fine with you being a passive aggressive racist who wishes for other people to literally suffer torment beyond imagination, because they happen to be better than you at a computer game. Just please don't bring this attitude to work!" | ||
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zOula...
United States898 Posts
On March 08 2012 19:56 nappeee wrote: "All he knows is one build that's all he can do of every single game of every single matchup cuz he's a fucking waste of human life, and a waste of human resources on this planet and he honestly deserves to be dead, like I mean that 100% percent sincerely. I often joke around about this kinda stuff but, um, I would actually be much happier if that guy were just killed in preferably the most painful way possible to be honest. I'm not even sadistic, in fact pain in others usually brings me pain, personally, but not at people like that, people like that I would love to just watch that guy burn, like honestly just be in the most amount of pain for hours and hours. I would revel in that." Jesus, that is seriously disgusting. Don't understand how anyone can get that worked up and say the things he says over video games. Sure ladder rage sucks, but just block the guy or log off for a little while or something... | ||
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CEPEHDREI
Germany1521 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:03 zOula... wrote: Jesus, that is seriously disgusting. Don't understand how anyone can get that worked up and say the things he says over video games. Sure ladder rage sucks, but just block the guy or log off for a little while or something... wtf did he say this on his stream? | ||
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zOula...
United States898 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
Congrats on signing for EG as there caster | ||
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b0rt_
Norway931 Posts
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Pure-SC2
United Kingdom1440 Posts
On March 08 2012 19:56 nappeee wrote: Quoted from the reddit thread, this is orb on his stream talking about his opponent "All he knows is one build that's all he can do of every single game of every single matchup cuz he's a fucking waste of human life, and a waste of human resources on this planet and he honestly deserves to be dead, like I mean that 100% percent sincerely. I often joke around about this kinda stuff but, um, I would actually be much happier if that guy were just killed in preferably the most painful way possible to be honest. I'm not even sadistic, in fact pain in others usually brings me pain, personally, but not at people like that, people like that I would love to just watch that guy burn, like honestly just be in the most amount of pain for hours and hours. I would revel in that." I feel like he needs help.. like honestly. I think he has some serious problems, anyone that says the quote above (I heard it before it was removed) regardless of how annoyed they are at a video game, they need help. Anyone (or any organisation) endorsing him is just a part of the problem, because he doesn't even understand whats wrong and that's why he's tried to justify it behind lies. Everyone was up in arms about the fighting game community incident, well this guy is just as bad. If you think this kind of closet racism and hatred is acceptable, then you're just as messed up as he is. | ||
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Ornithorynquez
430 Posts
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
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halvorg
Norway717 Posts
About his casting I do not care much for it, too much yelling throughout every game even in breaks in action, makes it tiring to listen to for extended periods. It also irks me the way he criticizes play as if he is an absolute authority on the matter - I have zero problems with casters calling out mistakes, but the way he does it rubs me wrong. | ||
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Doomwish
438 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:24 halvorg wrote: Frankly, I don't give a flying fuck if orb BMs on ladder. About his casting I do not care much for it, too much yelling throughout every game even in breaks in action, makes it tiring to listen to for extended periods. It also irks me the way he criticizes play as if he is an absolute authority on the matter - I have zero problems with casters calling out mistakes, but the way he does it rubs me wrong. This goes beyond BM. Some of the stuff he said was seriously sick, the kind of stuff a sociopath would say. | ||
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Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:27 Doomwish wrote: This goes beyond BM. Some of the stuff he said was seriously sick, the kind of stuff a sociopath would say. Quite an overstatement.. Calling him a sociopath is going a little far, don't you think? | ||
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Pure-SC2
United Kingdom1440 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:30 Venomsflame wrote: Quite an overstatement.. Calling him a sociopath is going a little far, don't you think? You sure? "people like that I would love to just watch that guy burn, like honestly just be in the most amount of pain for hours and hours. I would revel in that." | ||
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garbodor
269 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:30 Venomsflame wrote: Quite an overstatement.. Calling him a sociopath is going a little far, don't you think? "All he knows is one build that's all he can do of every single game of every single matchup cuz he's a fucking waste of human life, and a waste of human resources on this planet and he honestly deserves to be dead, like I mean that 100% percent sincerely. I often joke around about this kinda stuff but, um, I would actually be much happier if that guy were just killed in preferably the most painful way possible to be honest. I'm not even sadistic, in fact pain in others usually brings me pain, personally, but not at people like that, people like that I would love to just watch that guy burn, like honestly just be in the most amount of pain for hours and hours. I would revel in that." | ||
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WingsOfLead
2 Posts
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hellraiser1110
Croatia70 Posts
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
The people who are attacking him are probably just against intellectualism, seeing as he's one of the better composed and educated casters. Keep it up Orb! | ||
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Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:31 Pure-SC2 wrote: You sure? "people like that I would love to just watch that guy burn, like honestly just be in the most amount of pain for hours and hours. I would revel in that." Yeah, he got angry and said some stupid shit. I once broke a keyboard after being angry losing in a tourney. Does that make me a sociopath? I'm not condoning anything he said and as I said earlier in this thread about his casting(you know.. being on topic and all) I don't like his casting but stop calling a crusade against him and acting as if he's a terrible person. Call him a rager and unprofessional but that doesn't make him a sociopath. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:35 TRaFFiC wrote: The people who are attacking him are probably just against intellectualism, seeing as he's one of the better composed and educated casters. You did read his quotes, right? "Intellectualism" isn't exactly what comes to mind. | ||
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MrSunshine
Sweden93 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:35 TRaFFiC wrote: Orb is one of the best analytic casters in sc2, period. I don't think anything he says in his personal life should affect his professional career, especially not some random comment made online. The people who are attacking him are probably just against intellectualism, seeing as he's one of the better composed and educated casters. Keep it up Orb! Are you serious? Orb. I'm disgusted by your behaviour and the way you conduct yourself. I feel sorry for EG, seeing how I used to consider them being a highly professional entity but obviously I was proven wrong. :edit: And also you're a terrible caster User was warned for this post | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
It's not the end of the world guys, i bet people complaining here must BM the hell out of BNET and now are here like the world ended for Orb... I saw him rage in his stream and i don't think a guy like orb would say he would smoke a bowl... | ||
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:34 hellraiser1110 wrote: Orb i support you, keep bm-ing, ur a solid caster. Haters gonna hate. Better to let it out than to hold it in. That's all Wouldn't be a problem if it was just bm-ing lol. It's RACISM, do you know the difference between the two ? it changes everything. | ||
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nappeee
Finland169 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:35 TRaFFiC wrote: Orb is one of the best analytic casters in sc2, period. I don't think anything he says in his personal life should affect his professional career, especially not some random comment made online. The people who are attacking him are probably just against intellectualism, seeing as he's one of the better composed and educated casters. Keep it up Orb! The people who are attacking him are most likely against racism and his extremely unprofessional raging. He also lied to EG and said he didn't say all those things even tho there is clear evidence he did. | ||
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Doomwish
438 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:30 Venomsflame wrote: Quite an overstatement.. Calling him a sociopath is going a little far, don't you think? Taken from dictonary.com Sociopath: noun Psychiatry . a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience. "people like that I would love to just watch that guy burn, like honestly just be in the most amount of pain for hours and hours. I would revel in that." -orb You make that judgement. | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:40 Shockk wrote: You did read his quotes, right? "Intellectualism" isn't exactly what comes to mind. Not just that. I guess he dont even know what "Intellectualism" means, because otherwise he would not have used it (hint: orb is quite the opposite, and no, that does not mean dumb). edit I saw him rage in his stream and i don't think a guy like orb would say he would smoke a bowl... Dont know what you try to say with that, but he already admitted that it was him (-> reddit) and not a friend. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:41 MrSunshine wrote: Are you serious? Orb. I'm disgusted by your behaviour and the way you conduct yourself. I feel sorry for EG, seeing how I used to consider them being a highly professional entity but obviously I was proven wrong. :edit: And also you're a terrible caster I'm absolutely serious. If this was any other master player, there wouldn't be any commotion. It's because of his fame as a caster that people are making a big deal about this. There is no other caster who can deliver his lines like orb. He's obviously educated. A few angry comments doesn't change that. I can't play 2 ladder games without being raged, flamed and called racist names. Isn't it ironic that the SAME COMMUNITY is crucifying orb. I'd bet my last dollar half the people attacking him do much, MUCH worse. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:41 MrSunshine wrote: Are you serious? Orb. I'm disgusted by your behaviour and the way you conduct yourself. I feel sorry for EG, seeing how I used to consider them being a highly professional entity but obviously I was proven wrong. :edit: And also you're a terrible caster Lol don't be ridicolous.. Ron Artest now Metta World Peace hit guys in front of thousands and he wasn't banned from the NBA, in fact he went from Indiana to arguably the biggest team in the NBA, to the Lakers. Same when Arenas took guns to locker room in Washington, he is now in Orlando. So people can brawl, take guns, take doping in all sports and not get banned for life and ORB a CASTER for eSports should be banned because he said some nasty words out of anger in a ladder game?? and you can't even prove it was him, since it is online... People are stupid or just want to bash everytime.... That's why a good thread, with good news or annoucement will always have less posts then a drama thread or if it doesn't it's because the good thread is now infested with some stupid drama... | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:51 shell wrote: Lol don't be ridicolous.. Ron Artest now Metta World Peace hit guys in front of thousands and he wasn't banned from the NBA, in fact he went from Indiana to arguably the biggest team in the NBA, to the Lakers. Same when Arenas took guns to locker room in Washington, he is now in Orlando. So people can brawl, take guns, take doping in all sports and not get banned for life and ORB a CASTER for eSports should be banned because he said some nasty words out of anger in a ladder game?? and you can't even prove it was him, since it is online... People are stupid or just want to bash everytime.... That's why a good thread, with good news or annoucement will always have less posts then a drama thread or if it doesn't it's because the good thread is now infested with some stupid drama... No, he should not be banned for life. Of course not. But he should be "jugded" the same way for example Katu was. Btw, again, you dont need to prove anything, because he said that he did it. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:51 shell wrote: Lol don't be ridicolous.. Ron Artest now Metta World Peace hit guys in front of thousands and he wasn't banned from the NBA, in fact he went from Indiana to arguably the biggest team in the NBA, to the Lakers. Same when Arenas took guns to locker room in Washington, he is now in Orlando. So people can brawl, take guns, take doping in all sports and not get banned for life and ORB a CASTER for eSports should be banned because he said some nasty words out of anger in a ladder game?? and you can't even prove it was him, since it is online... People are stupid or just want to bash everytime.... That's why a good thread, with good news or annoucement will always have less posts then a drama thread or if it doesn't it's because the good thread is now infested with some stupid drama... Well said, well said. :D | ||
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Aphix
England8 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:50 TRaFFiC wrote:It's because of his fame as a caster that people are making a big deal about this. No shit. He's representing the SC2 community (and EG as a whole) while he's casting tournaments, and throwing out racist comments and saying twisted crap like people have already posted in this thread isn't good publicity for anyone. Random people on the ladder doing this kind of thing have no responsibility related to SC2 and aren't representing a professional team, nor are they casting tournaments watched by thousands of people. | ||
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daber
United States19 Posts
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StuartLove
Germany267 Posts
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MrSunshine
Sweden93 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:50 TRaFFiC wrote: I'm absolutely serious. If this was any other master player, there wouldn't be any commotion. It's because of his fame as a caster that people are making a big deal about this. There is no other caster who can deliver his lines like orb. He's obviously educated. A few angry comments doesn't change that. I can't play 2 ladder games without being raged, flamed and called racist names. Isn't it ironic that the SAME COMMUNITY is crucifying orb. I'd bet my last dollar half the people attacking him do much, MUCH worse. Seeing how you're dumber than I orginally thought, I will explain why you're wrong. First; an educated man wouldn't fall so low to call people the n-word on the ladder. Second; seeing how Orb has done casting for NASL there is no longer any difference between his behaviour in his personal life and his professional life. He chose to become a public figure and should be judged as one. Third; you said you can't play 2 ladder games without being flamed and therefore that would justify you acting like a douchebag to others? If someone jumps off the brooklyn bridge does that mean you have to do it aswell? You're an idiot. On March 08 2012 20:51 shell wrote: Lol don't be ridicolous.. Ron Artest now Metta World Peace hit guys in front of thousands and he wasn't banned from the NBA, in fact he went from Indiana to arguably the biggest team in the NBA, to the Lakers. Same when Arenas took guns to locker room in Washington, he is now in Orlando. So people can brawl, take guns, take doping in all sports and not get banned for life and ORB a CASTER for eSports should be banned because he said some nasty words out of anger in a ladder game?? and you can't even prove it was him, since it is online... People are stupid or just want to bash everytime.... That's why a good thread, with good news or annoucement will always have less posts then a drama thread or if it doesn't it's because the good thread is now infested with some stupid drama... I don't want Orb to represent the sc2 community with this kind of racist behaviour. That's all, lol. | ||
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RoberP
United Kingdom101 Posts
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m0ck
4194 Posts
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
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lamz
Lithuania54 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Shinzon
United States41 Posts
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
Well.... EG bought it but something inside of me says they really know the truth too. | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:35 Shinzon wrote: jesus christ, are all of you people angels or something? Have every single one of you not BM'd AT ALL on ladder before? You are making it seem like Orb murdered someone. He says it wasn't him. It's his fault he shared his account. Unless there is some form of proof that it WAS him, he's innocent. Ever hear of innocent until proven guilty? Oh but this is a witch hunt where Orb will be crucified by public opinion and possibly forced out of a job most of you would love to have. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/qmvdb/orb_really_loves_the_n_word_on_ladder/c3yuv52 | ||
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:37 nvs. wrote: The blatant lying is the worst part, how stupid does he think people are? Well.... EG bought it but something inside of me says they really know the truth too. EG obviously know the the truth but are covering him because he is a pretty good friend of them. | ||
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nappeee
Finland169 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:35 Shinzon wrote: jesus christ, are all of you people angels or something? Have every single one of you not BM'd AT ALL on ladder before? You are making it seem like Orb murdered someone. He says it wasn't him. It's his fault he shared his account. Unless there is some form of proof that it WAS him, he's innocent. Ever hear of innocent until proven guilty? Oh but this is a witch hunt where Orb will be crucified by public opinion and possibly forced out of a job most of you would love to have. I would absolutely love to have his job. But the thing is if i somehow would get it and be representing the EG and most of all SC community, i would never in my life even consider throwing racist comments at ppl and saying the things he did.. that is just not normal for a guy in his position. | ||
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BearDK
Denmark101 Posts
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:40 BearDK wrote: it is obvious that orb did not have any racist intentions using "nigger" as a swear word. it's the same with people saying "faggot", 99 % of the time there are no homophobic intentions behind it. "nigger" and "faggot" are just words that have (sadly) been incorporated into the english language as common swear words, and I'll bet my balls that Orb had no racist intentions. Not this discussion again.... It's a bad thing to say, end of story. | ||
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Ventor
United States336 Posts
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Shinzon
United States41 Posts
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Mordlikeafox
Ireland43 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:47 Ventor wrote: Being an African American myself, words cannot describe my hate towards orb because of the slander that came from him. My feedback to you orb is to live as a slave the rest of your life and learn what it means to be called a ..... have you lived as a slave for you entire life? didnt know slaves were allowed computers or starcraft 2 accounts alabama is more progressive than I'd assumed | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:49 Shinzon wrote: A thousand times this. Rage is obviously a problem. Some people deal with differently. If he chooses to use words, instead of slamming his face into a wall, let that be his way to vent. He obviously doesn't mean to be racist, it's everyone taking his rage out of context that is going to crucify him in every single discussion about this. I've moderated his stream for a long time. Yeah he rages. He uses vulgarity. He's passionate about the game and ladder can be frustrating. Is everyone that's on the witch hunt to destroy orb a perfect human being? No. Maybe the bigger issue here is rage itself. It goes across all competitive gaming. People yell, scream, break stuff, or whatever. Perhaps that's a bigger issue to talk about, rather than trying to destroy someone's career in a gaming community that they are very passionate about. The point is there is no context in which that word should ever be said, so it can't be taken out of context in the first place. | ||
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ShoCK77
45 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:35 Shinzon wrote: jesus christ, are all of you people angels or something? Have every single one of you not BM'd AT ALL on ladder before? You are making it seem like Orb murdered someone. He says it wasn't him. It's his fault he shared his account. Unless there is some form of proof that it WAS him, he's innocent. Ever hear of innocent until proven guilty? Oh but this is a witch hunt where Orb will be crucified by public opinion and possibly forced out of a job most of you would love to have. there are proofs that it was him (http://i.imgur.com/ezpN4.jpg just one example, just look the rest up for yourself http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/qmvdb/orb_really_loves_the_n_word_on_ladder/) if he would have just said that it was him and he was having a bad day and apologized everything would have been fine, but this excuse 'i shared my account with a friend' is just ridiculous and that is what makes people angry | ||
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Shinzon
United States41 Posts
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Ventor
United States336 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:50 Mordlikeafox wrote: have you lived as a slave for you entire life? didnt know slaves were allowed computers or starcraft 2 accounts alabama is more progressive than I'd assumed My ancestors were. You're a terrible person. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:50 Mordlikeafox wrote: have you lived as a slave for you entire life? didnt know slaves were allowed computers or starcraft 2 accounts alabama is more progressive than I'd assumed It's pretty rare that I gawp in disbelief at the screen, but here we are | ||
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AgentChaos
United Kingdom4569 Posts
i guess it makes other viewers excited or something | ||
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Disposition1989
Canada270 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:44 Doomwish wrote: Taken from dictonary.com Sociopath: noun Psychiatry . a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience. "people like that I would love to just watch that guy burn, like honestly just be in the most amount of pain for hours and hours. I would revel in that." -orb You make that judgement. half the people i play on ladder sound like that. are you saying that half the sc population are sociopaths? you make that judgement | ||
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Munsy
United States67 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:50 Mordlikeafox wrote: have you lived as a slave for you entire life? didnt know slaves were allowed computers or starcraft 2 accounts alabama is more progressive than I'd assumed You're right, how could someone who has a computer and a Starcraft II account ever truly understand the pain and hurt that goes along with being called a... HEY WAIT A MINUTE | ||
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Lowell
Germany346 Posts
Yeah and my ancestors were nazis. Does that make me a fashist? You are not your ancestors stop trying to get sympathy for things that happened before you lived. Thats just stupid. Edit: Just to clarify i think what orb did and how he handled this situation is just as stupid at people saying this is about racism. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44391 Posts
His past BM and the whole racism controversy weren't part of his casts, right? Just previous games that he played while streaming (or privately, whatever). Obviously, I totally get why people are going to stop supporting orb as a person- the things that have apparently been said seem to be incredibly terrible. But relating to this actual thread (caster feedback), I think he's doing an excellent job during his commentating. (In the same way that- interestingly enough- IdrA is known for being BM in games but is actually a really good analytical caster.) I think orb's enthusiastic, has good game knowledge and analysis, and can keep up with the action very easily. OrbControl is one of my favorite caster pairs, and orb seems to be incredibly professional while he casts... so that's my particular feedback on his casting. He's one of my favorite commentators to listen to, even if he has done stupid shit in the past (arguably unforgivable to many people). As far as what he's said outside of casting is concerned... I hope he doesn't make any slip-ups during a cast. For his sake. TL;DR - Possibly scummy person. Still a really really good caster (which is what he asked about). Better not fuck up during his casts (as we've already called out some commentators for being too racist, etc.). Hoping for the best. | ||
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:50 Mordlikeafox wrote: have you lived as a slave for you entire life? didnt know slaves were allowed computers or starcraft 2 accounts alabama is more progressive than I'd assumed Wow. There are no words for some people. | ||
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:20 Lowell wrote: Yeah and my ancestors were nazis. Does that make me a fashist? You are not your ancestors stop trying to get sympathy for things that happened before you lived. Thats just stupid. Do you have any idea what the fuck you are talking about? He isn't trying to get sympathy for things that happened before he lived, he is responding to somone who was using the fact that he's not infact a slave as an argument. | ||
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Ventor
United States336 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:20 Lowell wrote: Yeah and my ancestors were nazis. Does that make me a fashist? You are not your ancestors stop trying to get sympathy for things that happened before you lived. Thats just stupid. Edit: Just to clarify i think what orb did and how he handled this situation is just as stupid at people saying this is about racism. I guess people will never understand how it feels to have your ancestors treated worse than dogs for their entire lives. It's a shame people like you exist in our community. | ||
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BearDK
Denmark101 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:42 nvs. wrote: Not this discussion again.... It's a bad thing to say, end of story. yes but I'm just saying it's no worse than "faggot". | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
We're supposed to sit there and take it, while one use of 'nigger' is world-ending? Nice guys, nice :/ | ||
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seiferoth10
3362 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:36 marvellosity wrote: As a gay dude, I'm curious why the use of the word 'nigger' (racial biggotry) is infinitely worse than 'faggot' (sexuality biggotry). We're supposed to sit there and take it, while one use of 'nigger' is world-ending? Nice guys, nice :/ It isn't. It's exactly the same, at least to this community. Unfortunately some people are trying to apply the definition used in the 1700s, and not the definition used in 2012 in the online gaming community. | ||
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mrafaeldie12
Brazil537 Posts
Don't mind reddit, they're witchunt-trigger-happy. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:38 seiferoth10 wrote: It isn't. It's exactly the same, at least to this community. Unfortunately some people are trying to apply the definition used in the 1700s, and not the definition used in 2012 in the online gaming community. its exactly the same and you know it, if you call a gay person that you dont know a faggot they are going to be as offended if you call a black person a nigger. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:38 seiferoth10 wrote: It isn't. It's exactly the same, at least to this community. Unfortunately some people are trying to apply the definition used in the 1700s, and not the definition used in 2012 in the online gaming community. Which kinda makes it worse really, because the racism that is implied in the word 'nigger' is mostly (not completely) stamped out in the western world at least, whereas the homophobia implied in the word 'faggot' still runs much more rampant. Logically to me, it just makes the brouhaha here even worse :/ | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
I'm curious as to why EG is siding with his blatant lie. They have to know it's a lie so there must be some reason they're sticking up for him. Oh well, it's GOING to happen again and it'll be much more difficult to defend him the next time. Although I do agree with Marv that it is incredibly stupid that one use of the n-word causes a freaking riot but people are allowed all sorts of other bigotry on their stream. If we're going to get pissed about the n-word we should be getting pissed about ALL bigotry. | ||
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herberck
Germany44 Posts
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seiferoth10
3362 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:40 marvellosity wrote: Which kinda makes it worse really, because the racism that is implied in the word 'nigger' is mostly (not completely) stamped out in the western world at least, whereas the homophobia implied in the word 'faggot' still runs much more rampant. Logically to me, it just makes the brouhaha here even worse :/ Nah, they don't carry the same weight as their root definitions. They're just general use derogatory terms in this community. Like "dickhead", do they actually mean your head is a penis? No. It's just a general use derogatory term. It's impossible to zero in on a feature to insult because of the anonymity of the internet, so the insults are quite general in nature. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:47 seiferoth10 wrote: Nah, they don't carry the same weight as their root definitions. They're just general use derogatory terms in this community. Like "dickhead", do they actually mean your head is a penis? No. It's just a general use derogatory term. The root definitions being the bullying gay kids receive in school that black kids don't really anymore? To me, current issues carry more weight than past ones (however important!) | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44391 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:36 marvellosity wrote: As a gay dude, I'm curious why the use of the word 'nigger' (racial biggotry) is infinitely worse than 'faggot' (sexuality biggotry). We're supposed to sit there and take it, while one use of 'nigger' is world-ending? Nice guys, nice :/ In a perfect world, all slurs would be unacceptable, and anyone using them would be immediately educated (or ostracized, depending on whether or not they say them repeatedly and to be mean), and we would live in a bigotry-free world! In reality, to actually answer your question, I think "faggot" has become more colloquialized and used in everyday language to mean things other than a slur towards a gay person (just like "that's so gay" or "that's so retarded"- although, obviously, "faggot" is more extreme of a word). For example, laymen often use it to just mean "a jerk" in general, not necessarily pertaining to one's sexual orientation. (That doesn't mean I'm condoning the use of the word "faggot" in certain contexts; I'm just letting you know why some people don't view it as bad as "nigger".) On the other hand, "nigger" has always (from my experiences, anyway) carried a racial undertone. There are no other colloquial definitions for "nigger" other than speaking down to a black person. So it seems that "faggot" has become better ingrained in our society because we use it in multiple ways. And... maybe because we haven't quite gotten around to fully accepting gay people here in America, whereas we've already had our black civil rights movement. We should get on that. | ||
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Ballack
Norway821 Posts
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seiferoth10
3362 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:48 marvellosity wrote: The root definitions being the bullying gay kids receive in school that black kids don't really anymore? To me, current issues carry more weight than past ones (however important!) Cool, you acknowledge the importance of time, now think about setting. If someone called you a faggot online, would you be offended? I think you would, but you shouldn't. It's impossible that they know you are actually homosexual, so they're not actually insulting an attribute associated with your person. They're frustrated and their only recourse is to throw out a general use derogatory term. The only way I could explain this simpler is on the internet these terms are like birdshot out of a shotgun, whereas if someone in real life who actually knew your situation used it on you, it would be like a sniper rifle. What does more damage, birdshot or a 50 cal bullet to the head? | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:47 seiferoth10 wrote: Nah, they don't carry the same weight as their root definitions. They're just general use derogatory terms in this community. Like "dickhead", do they actually mean your head is a penis? No. It's just a general use derogatory term. It's impossible to zero in on a feature to insult because of the anonymity of the internet, so the insults are quite general in nature. They said the same thing before about nigger and now its completely unacceptable, faggot is exactly the same and comparing it to dick head is stupid. Dick head has no race or oreintation of sex attatched to it, it is just a normal insult. Calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay like saying someone is a nigger is implying its bad to be black and they are completely unacceptable. | ||
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:36 marvellosity wrote: As a gay dude, I'm curious why the use of the word 'nigger' (racial biggotry) is infinitely worse than 'faggot' (sexuality biggotry). We're supposed to sit there and take it, while one use of 'nigger' is world-ending? Nice guys, nice :/ In real life at least almost no one uses these words. Not in England anyway. For some reason they're acceptable on the internet primarily from people from Scandinavia and the United States. | ||
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:55 seiferoth10 wrote: Cool, you acknowledge the importance of time, now think about setting. If someone called you a faggot online, would you be offended? I think you would, but you shouldn't. It's impossible that they know you are actually homosexual, so they're not actually insulting an attribute associated with your person. They're frustrated and their only recourse is to throw out a general use derogatory term. The only way I could explain this simpler is on the internet these terms are like birdshot out of a shotgun, whereas if someone in real life who actually knew your situation used it on you, it would be like a sniper rifle. What does more damage, birdshot or a 50 cal bullet to the head? People like you are the worst of the worst. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
What does the word "nigger" got to do with slave? Slaves have existed for thousands of years and it's not a problem just of "black/african" people. I'm portuguese and i bet i also had slave ancestors from thousands of years, what's your point? Only black people were slaves? omg.. get yourselft informed way before christ there was slaves, white slaves, chinese slaves, african slaves.. Your kind is the only one being inslaved. And for your information it was the african "kings" that sold your kind to the europeans and we brought them to the americas.. It was a bussiness, diferent times, accepted it and move on. People know better now and changed their ways. If you get offended because your ancesters were slaves, you need to grow up, like your enslavers did. Because you are african american you get offended because the n word is a slave word? or because it's a slander to all african americans? If it really was Orb, don't get me wrong i don't think what he did is right, i just don't think people should get so worked up over this. Professionals? Wtf is professional in SC2? ... get out of your high horses.. | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:56 Seraphone wrote: In real life at least almost no one uses these words. Not in England anyway. For some reason they're acceptable on the internet primarily from people from Scandinavia and the United States. In germany "gay" ("schwul") is pretty popular to describe everything bad. But the n-word is almost extinct here, at least. Because you are african american you get offended because the n word is a slave word? or because it's a slander to all african americans? I guess the fact that the n word is used as a severe insult is bad enough, is it not? I agree, it has nothing to do with him personally, but if my last name would become popular for insulting people, i would get pissed off at that as well. Nigger comes from negró, or even further, "niger" - which just means "black". I would be insulted as well i guess (well in the internet as a german you receive a healthy "nazi" every now and then, pisses me off - so i can understand that). If i misunderstood you, just forget that. | ||
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krisss
Luxembourg305 Posts
orb behaves like this 12 year old kiddie, flaming, bullying others. And when an adult comes, hes sayin "it wasn't me". The least thing he could have done, was admitting, and (if he was smart) apologizing, but he prefered to act like a coward. Sorry the world got enough of you already, i dont need more of those in my beloved SC2. | ||
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Pughy
Wales662 Posts
If you non of you can understand why Orb is raging, maybe you should actually get good at the damn game get up into mid/high masters then realise how frustrating it can be. I agree the words he used weren't the best choice when it comes too BM'ing people but in no way am I gonna just jump on the hate bandwagon cause of this. Hell even whitera will make comments when laddering and stuff. I can't remember the tourny but when he played Puma and got owned by him he typed 'terran just too good' or something, which is BM and shows he was frustrated. | ||
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GatorGar
Somalia77 Posts
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seiferoth10
3362 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:57 Seraphone wrote: People like you are the worst of the worst. Sorry that I can actually rationalize internet slang. I'll try my best to live life with my blinders on, being offended at every turn, as you have shown me the light. Have you ever heard of slang? Definitions of words depend on the setting. Think about it. | ||
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lamz
Lithuania54 Posts
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krisss
Luxembourg305 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:59 Pughy wrote: Wow what a witch hunt for Orb. Get over yourselves people, ppl BM all the time and there are much bigger dickheads out there who BM way worse and actually mean the shit they say (like Idra/Destiny, both douches). If you non of you can understand why Orb is raging, maybe you should actually get good at the damn game get up into mid/high masters then realise how frustrating it can be. I agree the words he used weren't the best choice when it comes too BM'ing people but in no way am I gonna just jump on the hate bandwagon cause of this. Hell even whitera will make comments when laddering and stuff. I can't remember the tourny but when he played Puma and got owned by him he typed 'terran just too good' or something, which is BM and shows he was frustrated. calling somebody nigger, and saying that terran is too good is pretty much the same thing, your right. and BTW: its not about 1 insult, its simply the personality that should not be tolerated in a community like ours. Nobody got a problem when somebody is frustrated and BMs from time to time. But this orb just got some serious problems, anger issues or whatever. This guy should go outside, learn how to handle problems in RL, learn about tolerance, friendship, love and all the other positive things out there. He hasnt got enough of them yet. And I (and i know a lot of other ppl) dont want to watch a tournament casted by a such a guy. I want love, no hate. and orb can only deliver hate. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44391 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:55 seiferoth10 wrote: Cool, you acknowledge the importance of time, now think about setting. If someone called you a faggot online, would you be offended? I think you would, but you shouldn't. It's impossible that they know you are actually homosexual, so they're not actually insulting an attribute associated with your person. They're frustrated and their only recourse is to throw out a general use derogatory term. The only way I could explain this simpler is on the internet these terms are like birdshot out of a shotgun, whereas if someone in real life who actually knew your situation used it on you, it would be like a sniper rifle. What does more damage, birdshot or a 50 cal bullet to the head? So calling every single person a slur online is okay, because the jerk can't *possibly* truly mean it, because he doesn't know their true identities? It only matters when they know you? What the hell is wrong with you? People need to be educated so that they know that even saying those things to strangers isn't acceptable. It doesn't change the fact that the jerk is using slurs offensively, which shows his intent to put you down using a slur. Since when are slurs used as compliments? How often are you playing a game of StarCraft, and your opponent says "gl hf, my fellow #$%(^# ! " Of course you don't see that. You're going to see slurs when your opponent is being a bad-mannered jackass. You're going to see "stfu $%^&*)" and that's that. You have a right to be offended at his terminology, but you may be able to brush it off because he's clearly just an ignorant, immature sore loser. | ||
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Pughy
Wales662 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:03 krisss wrote: calling somebody nigger, and saying that terran is too good is pretty much the same thing, your right. Theres always someone who takes what you say and tries to one up you with retarded comparisons. Did I say they were the same thing? No i fucking didn't you moron, I was just pointing out that even the nicest of ppl get frustrated at ladder. | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On March 08 2012 22:59 Pughy wrote: Hell even whitera will make comments when laddering and stuff. I can't remember the tourny but when he played Puma and got owned by him he typed 'terran just too good' or something, which is BM and shows he was frustrated. So.. "All he knows is one build that's all he can do of every single game of every single matchup cuz he's a fucking waste of human life, and a waste of human resources on this planet and he honestly deserves to be dead, like I mean that 100% percent sincerely. I often joke around about this kinda stuff but, um, I would actually be much happier if that guy were just killed in preferably the most painful way possible to be honest. I'm not even sadistic, in fact pain in others usually brings me pain, personally, but not at people like that, people like that I would love to just watch that guy burn, like honestly just be in the most amount of pain for hours and hours. I would revel in that." = "terran just too good" .. mhkay. Yeah, after seeing both statements side by side, it makes sense. Really. Pretty obvious how similar these are, is it not? Did I say they were the same thing? No i fucking didn't you moron, I was just pointing out that even the nicest of ppl get frustrated at ladder. Of course, everyone of us gets frustrated every once in a while. But how do you compare these two statements and call them "similar"? Orb doesnt get frustrated, he pretty much has a stroke every game. | ||
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seiferoth10
3362 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: So calling every single person a slur online is okay, because the jerk can't *possibly* truly mean it, because he doesn't know their true identities? It only matters when they know you? What the hell is wrong with you? People need to be educated so that they know that even saying those things to strangers isn't acceptable. It doesn't change the fact that the jerk is using slurs offensively, which shows his intent to put you down using a slur. Since when are slurs used as compliments? How often are you playing a game of StarCraft, and your opponent says "gl hf, my fellow #$%(^# ! " Of course you don't see that. You're going to see slurs when your opponent is being a bad-mannered jackass. You're going to see "stfu $%^&*)" and that's that. You have a right to be offended at his terminology, but you may be able to brush it off because he's clearly just an ignorant, immature sore loser. Do you know what derogatory means? And, it's a general insult, not a personal insult. It's still an insult, but it's not a heat seeking missile insult directed at a quality of your person intended to offend you. | ||
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Pughy
Wales662 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:06 m4inbrain wrote: So.. "All he knows is one build that's all he can do of every single game of every single matchup cuz he's a fucking waste of human life, and a waste of human resources on this planet and he honestly deserves to be dead, like I mean that 100% percent sincerely. I often joke around about this kinda stuff but, um, I would actually be much happier if that guy were just killed in preferably the most painful way possible to be honest. I'm not even sadistic, in fact pain in others usually brings me pain, personally, but not at people like that, people like that I would love to just watch that guy burn, like honestly just be in the most amount of pain for hours and hours. I would revel in that." = "terran just too good" .. mhkay. Yeah, after seeing both statements side by side, it makes sense. Really. Pretty obvious how similar these are, is it not? Read my post above yyou absolute mongchild. Incase your too stupid to know what I'm getting at: 'Did I say they were the same thing? No i fucking didn't you moron, I was just pointing out that even the nicest of ppl get frustrated at ladder.' User was warned for this post | ||
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Protoss-Bah
74 Posts
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Fragile51
Netherlands15767 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:09 Protoss-Bah wrote: It's so funny, some people act civilized infront of the cameras, but immediately when it comes to it, they show their true side, the true devil that hides within them. Orb just showed who he really is, and now everyone knows.... ...Most people already knew he was like this z_z | ||
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lamz
Lithuania54 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:09 Protoss-Bah wrote: It's so funny, some people act civilized infront of the cameras, but immediately when it comes to it, they show their true side, the true devil that hides within them. Orb just showed who he really is, and now everyone knows.... that hes a virgin douchebag who lives with his parents. lol User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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yoigen
Germany369 Posts
]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTnM4jd-P1Y video related to the general discussion. User was warned for this post | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44391 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:01 lamz wrote: this just shows how bad as a person he is, his casts are full with fake enthusiasm, he lacks knowledge and is confirmed virgin, Thats ALL. Well I guess we know who recently got turned down by orb You seem a little bitter. Commenting on others' sexual relationships isn't the way to go, Iamz. Has nothing to do with ability to cast or play the game. On March 08 2012 23:10 lamz wrote: that hes a virgin douchebag who lives with his parents. lol Yeahhh... Reported. | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:09 Pughy wrote: Read my post above yyou absolute mongchild. Incase your too stupid to know what I'm getting at: 'Did I say they were the same thing? No i fucking didn't you moron, I was just pointing out that even the nicest of ppl get frustrated at ladder.' And what has that to do with the "problem at hand" at all? You compare someone who isnt even bm when he bms with someone like orb and wonder why no-one follows your argument? Your random insults dont help your case either, but i guess someone who runs around drooling and shouting "mongchild" wont get that. Idiot. Edit: also, would everybody please stop about that virgin-business? I couldnt care less, really. Half of the people here laughing about that are virgins themself, so just cut it. As if being a virgin makes you a bad person, grow up. User was warned for this post | ||
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GwSC
United States1997 Posts
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DONTPANIC
United States340 Posts
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Pughy
Wales662 Posts
The funny thing is people are all like 'fuck this jewbag virgin scrub hes a dick and a fucker cause he said nigger' like its acceptable to call out people for being a dick then be a dick yourself about it. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
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R3m3mb3rM3
Germany954 Posts
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RoberP
United Kingdom101 Posts
I'm not saying losing can't be frustrating or disappointing, but taking it out on others is just plain useless. Especially on the ladder, where the result of the game is irrelevant except to your own ego. More GG, more skill - certainly the players renowned for rage are either becoming less relevant or improving their attitude. How many Korean pros do you see raging after a game? So no, I can't understand people sympathizing with uncontrolled ladder rage followed by hurtful language unless they're seeking excuses for their own behaviour. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:09 Pughy wrote: Read my post above yyou absolute mongchild. Incase your too stupid to know what I'm getting at: 'Did I say they were the same thing? No i fucking didn't you moron, I was just pointing out that even the nicest of ppl get frustrated at ladder.' User was warned for this post nice people get frustrated on ladder. nice people don't take their frustration out on others. If someone is taking a long time with your order at a shop in the real world you can get frustrated, if you call them a nigger or start insulting them then you are not a nice person....the same applies here despite it being online. How can trying to emotionally hurt somebody else when you are annoyed be considered nice? and yes you are not a nice person. nice people don't go around calling people mongchilds for disagreeing with them. I'm sorry that you are a jackass, maybe it's something you could work on in future | ||
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kobrakai
175 Posts
Never knew that the SC2 community was so sensitive. Whether you like it or not, the words faggot and nigger are part of most young peoples vocabulary. You can get all high and mighty about it if you want, but wont change that fact. It wasn't being streamed it was in a private game. Get over yourselves. | ||
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herberck
Germany44 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:19 RoberP wrote: Frustration at losing should be directed at no-one but yourself. You lost, therefore he played better. End of story! Taking out your rage on other people is both wrong and counter productive as you don't learn anything from your loss. I'm not saying losing can't be frustrating or disappointing, but taking it out on others is just plain useless. Especially on the ladder, where the result of the game is irrelevant except to your own ego. More GG, more skill - certainly the players renowned for rage are either becoming less relevant or improving their attitude. How many Korean pros do you see raging after a game? So no, I can't understand people sympathizing with uncontrolled ladder rage followed by hurtful language unless they're seeking excuses for their own behaviour. Yep, i totally agree. Very well said. Ladder would be much more fun if everybody was like you and me! | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44391 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:08 seiferoth10 wrote: Do you know what derogatory means? And, it's a general insult, not a personal insult. It's still an insult, but it's not a heat seeking missile insult directed at a quality of your person intended to offend you. They're using derogatory words. They're degrading and critical and belittling. Maybe I don't feel it as much as a black or gay person would, but obviously the lashing out is there, and the jerk feels it's appropriate to use certain slurs to offend people. And for you to think that only black people have a right to be insulted when the word "nigger" is spoken, or that only gay people should be insulted when the word "faggot" is spewed is- quite frankly- shocking. How would civil rights ever come about if not for the fact that *other people* stepped up and said "Hey, what we're doing and saying to this group of people is utter bullshit"? I'm offended when people say those things- not because I'm black or gay (I'm a straight white guy)- but because it's uneducated filth. And I'm going to be a teacher and a parent, so I have to be able to teach others why it's unacceptable as a collective. You don't get to *get away with it* just because you said it to a stranger, or to a white guy or a straight guy. So *you* don't get to tell other people "Nah don't worry about it; it wasn't meant to offend you." It should offend everyone, because it's hurting someone. | ||
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openbox1
1393 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:22 ThePianoDentist wrote: nice people get frustrated on ladder. nice people don't take their frustration out on others. If someone is taking a long time with your order at a shop in the real world you can get frustrated, if you call them a nigger or start insulting them then you are not a nice person....the same applies here despite it being online. How can trying to emotionally hurt somebody else when you are annoyed be considered nice? and yes you are not a nice person. nice people don't go around calling people mongchilds for disagreeing with them. I'm sorry that you are a jackass, maybe it's something you could work on in future ha ha. I can just see it now. The cashier is slow bagging my groceries and I go, "can you stuff the bags faster you lazy niggres*.." I can see that going over well... gotta agree, the guy who was calling someone mongchild comes across as someone with poor impulse control. The internet is for being amused, not angry | ||
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Pughy
Wales662 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:22 ThePianoDentist wrote: nice people get frustrated on ladder. nice people don't take their frustration out on others. If someone is taking a long time with your order at a shop in the real world you can get frustrated, if you call them a nigger or start insulting them then you are not a nice person....the same applies here despite it being online. How can trying to emotionally hurt somebody else when you are annoyed be considered nice? and yes you are not a nice person. nice people don't go around calling people mongchilds for disagreeing with them. I'm sorry that you are a jackass, maybe it's something you could work on in future Lmfao what? First off that spaz didnt disagree with me, he put words in my mouth and then argued with them which is BS. All I said was even ppl like Whitera get frustrated at this game. I didn't say its ok to call people nigger when you get frustrated, just that people get frustrated. Learn to read mate especially if your gonna call me on in this thread and judge my morals/ call me a jackass | ||
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seiferoth10
3362 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: They're using derogatory words. They're degrading and critical and belittling. Maybe I don't feel it as much as a black or gay person would, but obviously the lashing out is there, and the jerk feels it's appropriate to use certain slurs to offend people. And for you to think that only black people have a right to be insulted when the word "nigger" is spoken, or that only gay people should be insulted when the word "faggot" is spewed is- quite frankly- shocking. How would civil rights ever come about if not for the fact that *other people* stepped up and said "Hey, what we're doing and saying to this group of people is utter bullshit"? I'm offended when people say those things- not because I'm black or gay (I'm a straight white guy)- but because it's uneducated filth. And I'm going to be a teacher and a parent, so I have to be able to teach others why it's unacceptable as a collective. You don't get to *get away with it* just because you said it to a stranger, or to a white guy or a straight guy. So *you* don't get to tell other people "Nah don't worry about it; it wasn't meant to offend you." It should offend everyone, because it's hurting someone. Alright then, well good luck on your quest to uplift the world's vocabulary, that's truly a lofty goal. I'm merely explaining the context that people use these words in the online gaming community, if you're determined to be offended by it that's your prerogative. I still think you're too focused on the fact that the word is "nigger", and not on the fact that it is just a general insult used in the online gaming community (like nigger, faggot, dickhead, cunt, twat, bitch and whatever else tickles your fancy). This isn't real life, this is the internet. You can't police people's vocabulary on the internet. If someone calls me a "faggot" in real life my level of offendedness (is that a word? I might have meant "offense) would be 10/10, but if someone calls me a "faggot" on the internet, my level of offendedness would be 1/10. If someone insults me over the internet I wouldn't lose any sleep at night, unfortunately you're in for many sleepless nights with your sensitivity to internet slang. | ||
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Renent
Canada302 Posts
Wait, so the only way for him to understand the hurt you feel like when you hear that word, is to live as a slave did for the rest of his life, which you never did? As an Irish American this confuses me. | ||
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RoberP
United Kingdom101 Posts
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krisss
Luxembourg305 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:42 seiferoth10 wrote: Alright then, well good luck on your quest to uplift the world's vocabulary, that's truly a lofty goal. I'm merely explaining the context that people use these words in the online gaming community, if you're determined to be offended by it that's your prerogative. I still think you're too focused on the fact that the word is "nigger", and not on the fact that it is just a general insult used in the online gaming community (like nigger, faggot, dickhead, cunt, twat, bitch and whatever else tickles your fancy). This isn't real life, this is the internet. You can't police people's vocabulary on the internet. If someone calls me a "faggot" in real life my level of offendedness (is that a word? I might have meant "offense) would be 10/10, but if someone calls me a "faggot" on the internet, my level of offendedness would be 1/10. If someone insults me over the internet I wouldn't lose any sleep at night, unfortunately you're in for many sleepless nights with your sensitivity to internet slang. You right, there are a lot of idiots out there in the internet, calling each other nigger and faggot. We cant change that. But what we can do is chosing the casters for our tournaments wisely. My vote goes for a non-idiot. And most people would agree. So orb is the wrong choice. | ||
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avc
121 Posts
"Like many of you, I've raged at people on the ladder, I've said things I am not proud of and I've behaved in an inconsiderate and immature way. This particular event happened before I was employed by EG and whilst I cannot change what I said, I can apologise for my actions and make the promise to reform my character as I'm now in a privileged position that demands I show respect and maturity. I've had a discussion with EG's management and while they aren't thrilled, they recognise this was in the past and as long as I continue to demonstrate that I have changed, no action will be taken against me. Once again, I'm sorry to everyone I have offended with the comments I made, I hope you can agree to judge me on my current actions and not my past." A statement like that would have shut down most of the issues right away. Yes, people would still be raging over it, but most would understand that it was in the past and that change has been promised. They'd be watching to wait for you to screw up again perhaps, but they'd drop the issue pretty damn quickly and you could get on with your life. Unfortunately what happened was a series of misguided excuses and lies. I believe it's these that have seen what could have been a simple blip in Orb's career, turn into a long term witch hunt which likely wont be dropped any time soon. Orb chose to try and lie his way out of it and even attempted to destroy the evidence of his wrong doing. It's this that has most people up in arms. Everyone can recognise that people have made mistakes in the past, we've all done it, apologies generally have to be accepted and second chances given. If you choose the path of lies and deceit to try and avoid admitting your wrongs then you're going to be in for a world of hassle, because people really do not like brazen lies in such situations. Personally I can forgive Orb's trash talk and rage from ladder play, as Wheat has said, it's something almost all of us have done at least once or twice in our gaming careers. What I'm not comfortable with is the way he decided to brazenly try to lie his way out of it, even though there was proof that he did it. You simply can't walk between "someone is impersonating me", "it wasn't me, it was my friend on my account", "I was drunk, it was late at night" and "he called me the n-word first" and expect people to drop the issue without giving you some serious hassle over it. Those who are defending Orb for what he said in the past, I think the majority of the community is in agreement that it was in the past and it should be dropped. The issue now is how he has repeatedly tried to lie his way out of it and cover it up, rather than admitting it and moving on. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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Badfatpanda
United States9719 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:08 seiferoth10 wrote: Do you know what derogatory means? And, it's a general insult, not a personal insult. It's still an insult, but it's not a heat seeking missile insult directed at a quality of your person intended to offend you. OK dude, here lets apply this to something else outside of this instance. Lemme go take the subway to North Philly, I'll go and buy a cheesesteak, Yummy! I think the guy is overpriced, so I'll tell him, yo!, N----, wtf why are you overcharging me. Now the 3 african americans standing behind me in line...do they take offense? If you were to say no, you should really go out more often. He always holds himself high and is arrogant whenever he has co-caster. He is in the spotlight and he had to have known that, why take the risk of insulting someone like that. You get pissed off on ladder? Sure, everyone does at one point or another, but just gg and if you still wanna be pissed, be mad at yourself for fucking up. I can't believe people are actually saying, well get to masters then its frustrating enough to call someone a racial slur...WTF where is the logic in that, bronze fuck up, GM's fuck up, be mad at yourself, this community would be so much better if people would realize that. edit: I really wouldn't be that troubled with this situation if it wasn't for the fact that he's lying about it, and refusing to apologize. We don't need somebody like this casting major tournaments, and I'll make an effort not to watch anything he's casting in the future. | ||
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Iloja
Germany29 Posts
I actually enjoy watching your casts because you do explain a lot of things in detail. I really like that and even if the player doesn't do as you predict it is still a very good look into the decision-making and the thought-process behind it. One thing that irks me a bit is that when things get really exciting you start to talk really fast, like really relly fast ^^ This is good in building up excitement in general but for me it gets really hard to follow you as I am no native-speaker. If you could go a tad slower in those cases it would be really appreciated even though I can understand if you would prefer to keep the excitement-level up in those moments. Don't know if other non-english-speakers do have the same problem or if it is just me. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
This was only a matter of time. | ||
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:01 seiferoth10 wrote: Sorry that I can actually rationalize internet slang. I'll try my best to live life with my blinders on, being offended at every turn, as you have shown me the light. Have you ever heard of slang? Definitions of words depend on the setting. Think about it. Starcraft will go a long way with these attitudes. I can't possibly understand why we aren't more mainstream when casters and players are using the N word on a regular basis. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:52 krisss wrote: You right, there are a lot of idiots out there in the internet, calling each other nigger and faggot. We cant change that. But what we can do is chosing the casters for our tournaments wisely. My vote goes for a non-idiot. And most people would agree. So orb is the wrong choice. Orb doesn't bm when he's casting at all. He'll make judgements like this is good that is bad but that's what casting is supposed to do. Fact is orb has shown considerable knowledge and talent for casting so go away. And it amazes me how people don't give people the benefit of the doubt, when I'm sure you've been in a position where someone has become very offended by what you said without context or being overly sensitive. | ||
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Rorschach
United States623 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:25 kobrakai wrote: Jesus Christ. (Does that offend every Christian in this thread?) Never knew that the SC2 community was so sensitive. Whether you like it or not, the words faggot and nigger are part of most young peoples vocabulary. You can get all high and mighty about it if you want, but wont change that fact. It wasn't being streamed it was in a private game. Get over yourselves. ^ this Everyone needs to drop the pitchforks. As a player I sometimes rage pretty hard and say awful shit to my opponents. Whether or not its deserved is irrelevant but I personally stopped because I decided that on the receiving end was another human being and that didn't make me feel good. The reality is they are just words, yes we intentionally use them to degrade others... Welcome to the real world, now go find something else better to do with yourselves than starting a witch hunt........ | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44391 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:42 seiferoth10 wrote: Alright then, well good luck on your quest to uplift the world's vocabulary, that's truly a lofty goal. I'm merely explaining the context that people use these words in the online gaming community, if you're determined to be offended by it that's your prerogative. I still think you're too focused on the fact that the word is "nigger", and not on the fact that it is just a general insult used in the online gaming community (like nigger, faggot, dickhead, cunt, twat, bitch and whatever else tickles your fancy). This isn't real life, this is the internet. You can't police people's vocabulary on the internet. If someone calls me a "faggot" in real life my level of offendedness (is that a word? I might have meant "offense) would be 10/10, but if someone calls me a "faggot" on the internet, my level of offendedness would be 1/10. If someone insults me over the internet I wouldn't lose any sleep at night, unfortunately you're in for many sleepless nights with your sensitivity to internet slang. I'm certainly not as offended as if I witness racism in person, and I don't lose sleep over StarCraft BM either, but I'm not going to condone the behavior- or even say it's acceptable- because it's not. I'm well aware that tracking down frustrated virtual losers who throw out bigoted remarks as general insults won't do any good (especially if they can ignore you on StarCraft), but you don't shrug it off when you see the consequences and you can actually talk to someone who'll listen. Apparently you think that just because you said it over the internet means that you can get away with saying anything, which is utterly ridiculous. Calling someone a slur online as "internet slang" still has very real repercussions (as we see here with orb). You don't get to say anything you want *because* it's the internet. A lot of the time you'll get away with it, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable for you to be a jackass. Obviously, it's fantastic to understand that people enjoy saying things they don't mean and having looser lips, because you can't take everything personally, but that doesn't exempt people from the responsibility of their own words and actions. Plenty of adult jobs advise their employees to be incredibly careful with what they say or post online (e.g. on Facebook or public forums) because you *don't* get a free pass *just because it's the internet*. Try being a teacher and posting a status about how you hate "niggers and faggots", even if there aren't any black or gay students in your school. Just a general insult right? Not aimed at anyone in particular? See how much longer you have a job. I don't think you quite understand how the real world works, if you think people shouldn't care about what's posted on the internet simply by virtue of it *not being real life*. The internet is part of real life, sorry buddy. | ||
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AlternativeEgo
Sweden17309 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:25 kobrakai wrote: Jesus Christ. (Does that offend every Christian in this thread?) Never knew that the SC2 community was so sensitive. Whether you like it or not, the words faggot and nigger are part of most young peoples vocabulary. You can get all high and mighty about it if you want, but wont change that fact. It wasn't being streamed it was in a private game. Get over yourselves. But then he lies about it, telling his employer and the community that it was someone else. That's the really ugly part and the point of no return in my opinion. I don't think that a person with that character has a place here (especially not when including his general behavior like calling others "retard", "mentally deficient" and whatnot in streams and on forums to that). We need to weed this shit out. On March 08 2012 23:58 avc wrote: I've never had anything against Orb and even after 'orbgate' began I was just waiting for him to come out with a statement like this: + Show Spoiler + "Like many of you, I've raged at people on the ladder, I've said things I am not proud of and I've behaved in an inconsiderate and immature way. This particular event happened before I was employed by EG and whilst I cannot change what I said, I can apologise for my actions and make the promise to reform my character as I'm now in a privileged position that demands I show respect and maturity. I've had a discussion with EG's management and while they aren't thrilled, they recognise this was in the past and as long as I continue to demonstrate that I have changed, no action will be taken against me. Once again, I'm sorry to everyone I have offended with the comments I made, I hope you can agree to judge me on my current actions and not my past." A statement like that would have shut down most of the issues right away. Yes, people would still be raging over it, but most would understand that it was in the past and that change has been promised. They'd be watching to wait for you to screw up again perhaps, but they'd drop the issue pretty damn quickly and you could get on with your life. Unfortunately what happened was a series of misguided excuses and lies. I believe it's these that have seen what could have been a simple blip in Orb's career, turn into a long term witch hunt which likely wont be dropped any time soon. Orb chose to try and lie his way out of it and even attempted to destroy the evidence of his wrong doing. It's this that has most people up in arms. Everyone can recognise that people have made mistakes in the past, we've all done it, apologies generally have to be accepted and second chances given. If you choose the path of lies and deceit to try and avoid admitting your wrongs then you're going to be in for a world of hassle, because people really do not like brazen lies in such situations. Personally I can forgive Orb's trash talk and rage from ladder play, as Wheat has said, it's something almost all of us have done at least once or twice in our gaming careers. What I'm not comfortable with is the way he decided to brazenly try to lie his way out of it, even though there was proof that he did it. You simply can't walk between "someone is impersonating me", "it wasn't me, it was my friend on my account", "I was drunk, it was late at night" and "he called me the n-word first" and expect people to drop the issue without giving you some serious hassle over it. Those who are defending Orb for what he said in the past, I think the majority of the community is in agreement that it was in the past and it should be dropped. The issue now is how he has repeatedly tried to lie his way out of it and cover it up, rather than admitting it and moving on. This. Great post. | ||
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
It's not. Grow up. ESports will never ever be mainstream when it's infested with people like this. | ||
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Nudelfisk
Sweden104 Posts
1. they feel insulted that someone would want to insult them 2. they get upset because they disagree that being these things is bad and that the person saying these words is a terrible human being or 3. they are racist/homophobic and genuinely feel that it's derogatory. i dunno. i don't take offense if anyone calls me these words in order to get me mad, but i'd definitively wouldn't want anything to do with anyone using them in any sort of serious context. so yeah, if you're in any way aspiring to be a public figure like orb is you should not say stuff like this. look at politicians, they get screwed if they have a parking ticket, here at least... that being said, this thread has devolved into a hate-fest with peeple hating on orb, people hating on people hating on orb, people hating people who hates the word nigger, people hating people who hates people who hates the word nigger etc. just calm down. he made a mistake, whether that be streaming while drunk, streaming while angry or lending his account over to someone else, and then he lied about it. it was a idiotic mistake and it wasn't very well handled, i'll agree, but, at least try to keep the discussion civil.. knowing this community, this will die down in like a day or two though, unless some kind of further information is provided. | ||
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Stropheum
United States1124 Posts
I've watched orb since the very beginning of beta and I've loved his stream for the content AND the rage, and I can honestly say I don't disbelieve his story about his friend using the account for several reasons. The chat log that I read sounds somewhat like what orb would say, but I've never heard him ever lose his cool (hear me out). He rages after losses, yeah, ok. But he vents, moves on, sometimes he tilts but that's it. He never flies off the handle and says he would 100% legitimately like to see someone die and call them a nigger. I guarantee most orb fans would agree with me on this, and all the people that are part of this witch hunt are just jumping on the bandwagon and either A) Don't watch his stream and only see his casting, B) Have never seen any of his content but have heard his name throughout the community, or C) Just have no clue whatsoever but are trying to justify picking up their pitchforks with the rest of TL/Reddit This is honestly one of the most ignorance-fueled, waste-of-space, overhyped topics I've ever seen on TL. Orb's tried for so long to get in a good spot in the TL/SC2 community and has provided a lot for us along the way, so my message to all the sub-100 posters getting up in a tiff about the sanctity of YOUR internet forum, chill.the.fuck.out | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:14 Stropheum wrote: What is all this proof people keep mentioning? I saw a screenshot of him watching some replay with no actual chat log or player names, coupled with a low quality 30-second fraps'd clip of a vod of him talking to an EG member on skype with a replay paused in the background. Aside from that, everyone's just shouting about this "proof", calling him a virgin, and saying he should relinquish his right to exist. Total witch hunt. I've watched orb since the very beginning of beta and I've loved his stream for the content AND the rage, and I can honestly say I don't disbelieve his story about his friend using the account for several reasons. The chat log that I read sounds somewhat like what orb would say, but I've never heard him ever lose his cool (hear me out). He rages after losses, yeah, ok. But he vents, moves on, sometimes he tilts but that's it. He never flies off the handle and says he would 100% legitimately like to see someone die and call them a nigger. I guarantee most orb fans would agree with me on this, and all the people that are part of this witch hunt are just jumping on the bandwagon and either A) Don't watch his stream and only see his casting, B) Have never seen any of his content but have heard his name throughout the community, or C) Just have no clue whatsoever but are trying to justify picking up their pitchforks with the rest of TL/Reddit This is honestly one of the most ignorance-fueled, waste-of-space, overhyped topics I've ever seen on TL. Orb's tried for so long to get in a good spot in the TL/SC2 community and has provided a lot for us along the way, so my message to all the sub-100 posters getting up in a tiff about the sanctity of YOUR internet forum, chill.the.fuck.out He already admitted it was him, those were all lies. Which seems to be a theme, concede as much as he must and lie about the rest. It's not working out too well though http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/qmvdb/orb_really_loves_the_n_word_on_ladder/c3yvceg | ||
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kobrakai
175 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:08 Seraphone wrote: There's so many kids in this thread who've never lived in the real world and worked a real job as a professional person so somehow they've developed the bizzare idea that using language like this is mainstream and okay. It's not. Grow up. ESports will never ever be mainstream when it's infested with people like this. He wasn't working. It was in private. I bet you say things every day that offend some people. It's a personal choice whether to be offended or not by a word. People are so fucking sensitive. Oh also do I have to link you to the tweets of PROFESSIONAL footballers who are contracted to clubs like Manchester Utd/ Liverpool etc who have used homophobic and racist vocabulary on their twitters? Having people who use such language is not preventing e sports going mainstream. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:23 floor exercise wrote: He already admitted it was him, those were all lies. Which seems to be a theme, concede as much as he must and lie about the rest. It's not working out too well though http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/qmvdb/orb_really_loves_the_n_word_on_ladder/c3yvceg Huh. That's a pretty good honest apology right there. What is this issue again? Is this apology not good enough? Seriously, what is the deal here? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44391 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:25 kobrakai wrote: He wasn't working. It was in private. I bet you say things every day that offend some people. It's a personal choice whether to be offended or not by a word. People are so fucking sensitive. Oh also do I have to link you to the tweets of PROFESSIONAL footballers who are contracted to clubs like Manchester Utd/ Liverpool etc who have used homophobic and racist vocabulary on their twitters? Having people who use such language is not preventing e sports going mainstream. Do you not understand that someone contracted by a team represents that team at all times? And sponsors? Being offended is a choice? Yeah man, blame the victims, not the bullies. Footballers who use slurs should be penalized just the same as anyone else, and athletes have been in the past. Football is already WAY mainstream, as opposed to SC2 which is barely getting off the ground. You can't compare an established sport to a new e-sport in terms of some people being unprofessional and it hurting the image greatly. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:29 DoubleReed wrote: Huh. That's a pretty good honest apology right there. What is this issue again? Is this apology not good enough? Seriously, what is the deal here? Did you even get as far as the first reply where the opponent refutes basically all of his excuses. How is that an honest apology at all? In what world is an apology full of made up excuses honest | ||
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Ectrid
Germany51 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:31 floor exercise wrote: Did you even get as far as the first reply where the opponent refutes basically all of his excuses. How is that an honest apology at all? In what world is an apology full of made up excuses honest Made up excuses? Where? He specifically says that certain items are not to be taken as excusing his actions. I read the replies. They don't actually address anything he says. They just keep berating him with insults. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
I concede, you win. Left is right, lies are honesty, and Orb is a victim | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:41 floor exercise wrote: if the first comment in your opinion doesn't directly address some of the myriad reasons why he had to refer to his opponent as a dumb nigger then you are basically just reading what you want to read, which I can't and won't argue with. I don't know how I can possibly respond to you when your arguments are seemingly based on your own version of reality. I concede, you win. Left is right, lies are honesty, and Orb is a victim No it really doesn't. Saying that all other casters have dealt with their issues is not really an argument. Orb never said anything about that. Casting is a job, and it's not at all fair to destroy someone's job by pointing out issues with their private life unless it actually affects what they're doing. He explicitly says that it is not affecting his casting so his job is irrelevant in that respect. Referring to destiny and spades is not meant as an excuse. He even explicit says so. He's pointing out a blatant double standard that people refuse to address and instead ignore so they berate him with more insults. Maybe people expected him to beg for forgiveness? Come on. Do you really think orb is racist? Really? | ||
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seiferoth10
3362 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I'm certainly not as offended as if I witness racism in person, and I don't lose sleep over StarCraft BM either, but I'm not going to condone the behavior- or even say it's acceptable- because it's not. I'm well aware that tracking down frustrated virtual losers who throw out bigoted remarks as general insults won't do any good (especially if they can ignore you on StarCraft), but you don't shrug it off when you see the consequences and you can actually talk to someone who'll listen. Apparently you think that just because you said it over the internet means that you can get away with saying anything, which is utterly ridiculous. Calling someone a slur online as "internet slang" still has very real repercussions (as we see here with orb). You don't get to say anything you want *because* it's the internet. A lot of the time you'll get away with it, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable for you to be a jackass. Obviously, it's fantastic to understand that people enjoy saying things they don't mean and having looser lips, because you can't take everything personally, but that doesn't exempt people from the responsibility of their own words and actions. Plenty of adult jobs advise their employees to be incredibly careful with what they say or post online (e.g. on Facebook or public forums) because you *don't* get a free pass *just because it's the internet*. Try being a teacher and posting a status about how you hate "niggers and faggots", even if there aren't any black or gay students in your school. Just a general insult right? Not aimed at anyone in particular? See how much longer you have a job. I don't think you quite understand how the real world works, if you think people shouldn't care about what's posted on the internet simply by virtue of it *not being real life*. The internet is part of real life, sorry buddy. Facebook is like the anti-internet. It's a collection of real life friends that you can interact with on the internet. Also, there is a distinction between your professional life and your casual life. Even if you used that terminology in your casual life (calling your buddies "faggot" when they prank you, or whatever situation you want), why would you post that where your professional life can retrieve it? That's not posting on the internet, that's like sending a letter to your real life contacts. Also, I never said that it was okay. I said it was a 1/10 on a 10 scale. There is still offense there, but it's not nearly anywhere deserving of the resulting witch hunt it garnered. And, I like your underhanded comments of what you perceive is my inexperience in life. It's okay, it is the internet after all, I'm not offended. Or I should say, I'm 1/10 offended on a 10 scale. | ||
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Stropheum
United States1124 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Do you not understand that someone contracted by a team represents that team at all times? And sponsors? Being offended is a choice? Yeah man, blame the victims, not the bullies. Footballers who use slurs should be penalized just the same as anyone else, and athletes have been in the past. Football is already WAY mainstream, as opposed to SC2 which is barely getting off the ground. You can't compare an established sport to a new e-sport in terms of some people being unprofessional and it hurting the image greatly. Even before they're under contract? The proof people are posting shows his webcam in his house in MD, not in the EG lair. This took place significantly before he was under contract with anybody or affiliated with sponsors. | ||
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Avean
Norway449 Posts
Really can't believe some of you, him writing the "n" word 1 time is so bad that you want to get him fired from casting ? That will ruin it for about 50 000 viewers that love his casting. | ||
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Hus
18 Posts
Not only is this behaviour unacceptable professionally, but highly undesirable in every other sense as well. I'm not prude, but I know the difference between a healthy rage and that disgusting tirade that orb showcased. That EG is not doing anything about this is really baffling. It doesn't matter if was on his stream or under private circumstances or whatever, you will not want to associate with a person like this. | ||
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kobrakai
175 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Do you not understand that someone contracted by a team represents that team at all times? And sponsors? Being offended is a choice? Yeah man, blame the victims, not the bullies. Footballers who use slurs should be penalized just the same as anyone else, and athletes have been in the past. Football is already WAY mainstream, as opposed to SC2 which is barely getting off the ground. You can't compare an established sport to a new e-sport in terms of some people being unprofessional and it hurting the image greatly. No, no I don't people have their private lives and should be able to do what they want in that time. It's just some cunt decided to do a print screen of someone using a word that some people find offensive. Er yeah it is a choice to be offended. You can choose not to be offended by someone using a word or you can choose not to. It's not like you are born and you automatically take offense to a word. Well you can because if the majority of people were really that offended by such slurs they'd boycott the game but considering that football is the worlds biggest sport. It's obvious people don't care that much. So it appears to me that having a few people within the E-sports community using such language isn't going to prevent it going mainstream, what is preventing it going mainstream is that it is a computer game and the vast majority of the worlds population think it is fucking stupid to watch other people play a computer game. Footballers are penalised with pathetic fines like £6,000 ohhh! Such a fine when they earn more than that in a week. (Which shows me that the sporting bodies really don't care) Racism is all over football and hasn't done the game any harm. Also how is it hurting the image of SC2? The only people who know about this situation are already involved in the scene or linked to it. Or did I miss the BBC articles on this fascinating and truly shocking story? | ||
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Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
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Hus
18 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:02 Venomsflame wrote: Sigh people are dumb. Half of the people angry and posting don't even care about what they said they are just here to be angry at something. Unless you ACTUALLY THINK Orb is a racist just move on and find something better to do with your time. People here arguing for whether or not nigger or faggot should be used while you stream is silly. Not an Orb fan at all but I dislike him being a caster because of his casting not because of one or two moments where he was upset and raged at some noob stream cheater. Move on. He was stream cheating now? Where did you get that information? I haven't heard this anywhere before. As I recalled orb only referred to him "doing the same thing" everytime. | ||
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PraefektMotus
Germany129 Posts
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Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:04 Hus wrote: He was stream cheating now? Where did you get that information? I haven't heard this anywhere before. As I recalled orb only referred to him "doing the same thing" everytime. Is that relevant? "This one was me a while ago at like 3am when i was drunk and I do apologize for my behavior. I was off-stream, had been cannon rushed 3 games in a row by this garbage clan (who I proved was stream cheating)" Doesn't change anything I said. Even had he not been stream cheating it's the same situation. Stream cheating is not an excuse to use this language. | ||
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Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:07 PraefektMotus wrote: I understand that people are offended by the n-word, but you do know what happens when certain groups learn about the fact that "raping" somebody in-game is totally cool and actively desired? It's pretty hypocritical how rape is fine because "oooohh it totally doesn't mean that in our context". Or that the word faggot would have not set off all of these alarms like nigger seems to have. It's always hypocritical to pinpoint one discriminating thing someone says instead of doing the same thing for everything they say. If he can say "lolol I just RAPED that army" and get no scrutiny hypocrisy is involved. | ||
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pigmanbear
Angola2010 Posts
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Gryffes
United Kingdom763 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:04 Hus wrote: He was stream cheating now? Where did you get that information? I haven't heard this anywhere before. As I recalled orb only referred to him "doing the same thing" everytime. Orb says he was stream cheating and that the other guy had called him the n-word many times already, the "other guy" responded on reddit: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CJjxt.jpg) | ||
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Hus
18 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:07 PraefektMotus wrote: I understand that people are offended by the n-word, but you do know what happens when certain groups learn about the fact that "raping" somebody in-game is totally cool and actively desired? It's pretty hypocritical how rape is fine because "oooohh it totally doesn't mean that in our context". Raping someone in a game can be an analogy for making your opponent submit to you against his will, which is essentially what the game's about. Not saying it's the best thing to cry out in a game, but it's completely incomparable to what orb has said, and quite frankly it's kind of tiresome seeing people try so hard finding other situations that might be comparable and just as bad. I've never believed in the "but it's okay since they do it" or "well this is just as worse" arguments that a lot of people come up with. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44391 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:49 seiferoth10 wrote: Facebook is like the anti-internet. It's a collection of real life friends that you can interact with on the internet. Also, there is a distinction between your professional life and your casual life. Even if you used that terminology in your casual life (calling your buddies "faggot" when they prank you, or whatever situation you want), why would you post that where your professional life can retrieve it? That's not posting on the internet, that's like sending a letter to your real life contacts. Also, I never said that it was okay. I said it was a 1/10 on a 10 scale. There is still offense there, but it's not nearly anywhere deserving of the resulting witch hunt it garnered. And, I like your underhanded comments of what you perceive is my inexperience in life. It's okay, it is the internet after all, I'm not offended. Or I should say, I'm 1/10 offended on a 10 scale. If you think Facebook is the anti-internet, trolling doesn't go on in the realm of Facebook, and that Facebook friends are *only* real-life friends, then I don't really know what else I can say to you... but you have a very warped view of reality. Posting things on the internet can screw you over, period. You don't get a free pass just because it wasn't spoken to someone directly, with intention, and each slur you said was spoken to the proper individual who can take most offense. And I especially like how you liken my point about your inexperience (which I've justified several times) to being offensive, as we're talking about bigoted slurs being offensive. Equivocation ftw. Anyway, I need to go do work. Enjoy the rest of your day ^^ | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44391 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:51 Stropheum wrote: Even before they're under contract? The proof people are posting shows his webcam in his house in MD, not in the EG lair. This took place significantly before he was under contract with anybody or affiliated with sponsors. That's a very good point. (I wasn't specifically talking about orb's past offenses, I was talking more in the general sense of something to keep in mind once someone has been hired.) | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:13 Hus wrote: Raping someone in a game can be an analogy for making your opponent submit to you against his will, which is essentially what the game's about. Not saying it's the best thing to cry out in a game, but it's completely incomparable to what orb has said, and quite frankly it's kind of tiresome seeing people try so hard finding other situations that might be comparable and just as bad. I've never believed in the "but it's okay since they do it" or "well this is just as worse" arguments that a lot of people come up with. If you think gamers using the word rape all the time isn't that offensive then you're living in a magical fairyland. Orb said it wasn't okay. He apologized. Move on. Orb acted unprofessionally outside of his profession. While drunk. My god. The world must be ending. | ||
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:25 kobrakai wrote: He wasn't working. It was in private. I bet you say things every day that offend some people. It's a personal choice whether to be offended or not by a word. People are so fucking sensitive. Oh also do I have to link you to the tweets of PROFESSIONAL footballers who are contracted to clubs like Manchester Utd/ Liverpool etc who have used homophobic and racist vocabulary on their twitters? Having people who use such language is not preventing e sports going mainstream. When football players do that it is a massive shitstorm. | ||
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PraefektMotus
Germany129 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:13 Hus wrote: Raping someone in a game can be an analogy for making your opponent submit to you against his will, which is essentially what the game's about. Not saying it's the best thing to cry out in a game, but it's completely incomparable to what orb has said, and quite frankly it's kind of tiresome seeing people try so hard finding other situations that might be comparable and just as bad. I've never believed in the "but it's okay since they do it" or "well this is just as worse" arguments that a lot of people come up with. That description is almost cute, lol. What rape actually is: Traumatize another human being for years, cause physical and enormous psychological damage and also commit a goddamn felony while doing it, destroying your own life as well because you'll be branded for life. Making someone submit in a game is completely different from this and it's pure history that rape is ok but faggot or nigger aren't. | ||
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fidelity
Sweden410 Posts
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whiteLotus
1833 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:27 fidelity wrote: Orb can use the n-word all he wants when he is streaming and laddering, but he can't expect it to not affect the rest of his starcraft life. He has clearly shown he is not a person I want to support in any way, and I can't believe people are actually defending Orbs "right" to call who ever he wants what ever he feels like cause he gets angry while laddering. What about the people playing him, don't they have a right not to be called faggot? Orb clearly isn't mature enough for his position as a representative for EG, or as a representative for the SC2 community at large. I hope he takes a break and reconsiders his attitude towards this game and it's community. why would he ? he gets money, and he gets the job done for them, i doubt he cares even a single bit about what you guys think | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:27 fidelity wrote: Orb can use the n-word all he wants when he is streaming and laddering, but he can't expect it to not affect the rest of his starcraft life. He has clearly shown he is not a person I want to support in any way, and I can't believe people are actually defending Orbs "right" to call who ever he wants what ever he feels like cause he gets angry while laddering. What about the people playing him, don't they have a right not to be called faggot? Orb clearly isn't mature enough for his position as a representative for EG, or as a representative for the SC2 community at large. I hope he takes a break and reconsiders his attitude towards this game and it's community. What? This has nothing to do with rights. No one is asking for his arrest. Jesus. Orb apologized. Unless you actually think he is racist (honestly lolworthy), I fail to see why he should lose his job over this. Especially considering he has shown skill and competence in his job. Edit: favorite comment on reddit is the guy calling orb "sociopathic" | ||
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Slardar
Canada7593 Posts
Let Him/Her who is without sin cast the first stone. People going all wild and rampant about this is not the answer, its the internet. We've all said and done things we may or may not regret, so we should cut Orb some slack. Once he's making millions like the Sports Commentators, we can burn him at the stake but until then stop going on a witchhunt. Although I don't agree at ALL with what he has said, as long as he apologizes (which he has) and makes a conscious effort to act professional in order to lead the scene then all is well. The caveat is you can only do this oh so many times, if you can't be mature and act professional then you should be promptly removed or step down from the scene. | ||
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seiferoth10
3362 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: If you think Facebook is the anti-internet, trolling doesn't go on in the realm of Facebook, and that Facebook friends are *only* real-life friends, then I don't really know what else I can say to you... but you have a very warped view of reality. Posting things on the internet can screw you over, period. You don't get a free pass just because it wasn't spoken to someone directly, with intention, and each slur you said was spoken to the proper individual who can take most offense. And I especially like how you liken my point about your inexperience (which I've justified several times) to being offensive, as we're talking about bigoted slurs being offensive. Equivocation ftw. Anyway, I need to go do work. Enjoy the rest of your day ^^ Yes, I do think those things. The internet is anonymous. I don't know who you are or what you do (well, you're a teacher, but that was voluntary). Facebook is as unanonymous as it gets. If you added me on facebook, I would know that information and can pin any misdeeds on you. Once again, I didn't say free pass, I said 1/10. It happened, it should be addressed, but it's not like he should be ostracized from the SC2 scene. And yes, I do regard the two to be related. In the end, someone over the internet is throwing unguided, untargeted insults at me trying to provoke a reaction. Just like angry video game nerds use insults like accusing their opponent of still living in their mom's basement, in addition to the slew of other colorful vocabulary utilized. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
P.S. The guys abusing the slew of posts to randomly call him terrible without providing any useful feedback are the worst. | ||
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Disposition1989
Canada270 Posts
GET THOSE NERDS!! NERRDDSS!! NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDSSS!!!!!! | ||
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betaman
United Kingdom355 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:37 Slardar wrote: HEY THREAD, Let Him/Her who is without sin cast the first stone. People going all wild and rampant about this is not the answer, its the internet. We've all said and done things we may or may not regret, so we should cut Orb some slack. Once he's making millions like the Sports Commentators, we can burn him at the stake but until then stop going on a witchhunt. Although I don't agree at ALL with what he has said, as long as he apologizes (which he has) and makes a conscious effort to act professional in order to lead the scene then all is well. The caveat is you can only do this oh so many times, if you can't be mature and act professional then you should be promptly removed or step down from the scene. I can safely say I've never called someone a nigger but, regardless, im not in a position of prominence in the scene like he is. Do we really want someone that uses such language and talks about burning people for kicks representing this community? | ||
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FreudianTrip
Switzerland1983 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:55 betaman wrote: I can safely say I've never called someone a nigger but, regardless, im not in a position of prominence in the scene like he is. Do we really want someone that uses such language and talks about burning people for kicks representing this community? I burn people for Nikes. | ||
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matiK23
United States963 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:08 Seraphone wrote: There's so many kids in this thread who've never lived in the real world and worked a real job as a professional person so somehow they've developed the bizzare idea that using language like this is mainstream and okay. It's not. Grow up. ESports will never ever be mainstream when it's infested with people like this. Underrated post. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:55 betaman wrote: I can safely say I've never called someone a nigger but, regardless, im not in a position of prominence in the scene like he is. Do we really want someone that uses such language and talks about burning people for kicks representing this community? Outside of his professional life? Why not? I don't like this kind of argument. Couldn't you say the same thing if we found a picture of him in bdsm gear or going to a drag show? "We don't want this person representing our community." | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On March 09 2012 02:00 DoubleReed wrote: Outside of his professional life? Why not? I don't like this kind of argument. Couldn't you say the same thing if we found a picture of him in bdsm gear or going to a drag show? "We don't want this person representing our community." No, because they aren't morally wrong. Raging at people over the internet continuously is. | ||
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krisss
Luxembourg305 Posts
On March 09 2012 02:00 DoubleReed wrote: Outside of his professional life? Why not? I don't like this kind of argument. Couldn't you say the same thing if we found a picture of him in bdsm gear or going to a drag show? "We don't want this person representing our community." When orb the kind of guy who likes it, and his partners too, wheres the problem? If he would go to nazi parades in his sparetime, i would definately have a problem with it. Dont u see the difference? Hes intentionally harming other people. He just has a very very very bad attitude toward SC2, its gamers, and life in gerneral i seems. I dont want such a person around me, wheather its SC2, or real life. | ||
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betaman
United Kingdom355 Posts
On March 09 2012 02:00 DoubleReed wrote: Outside of his professional life? Why not? I don't like this kind of argument. Couldn't you say the same thing if we found a picture of him in bdsm gear or going to a drag show? "We don't want this person representing our community." So he can do whatever he wants as long as it is outside his professional life? He can attend KKK meetings (i dont think orb is a racist btw i just think hes an idiot) but as it is outside his professional life its ok? Get a clue, when you become a figurehead of a community everything you do represents that community whether that is right or wrong it is simply a fact. | ||
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Vansetsu
United States1454 Posts
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Ectrid
Germany51 Posts
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:55 betaman wrote: I can safely say I've never called someone a nigger but, regardless, im not in a position of prominence in the scene like he is. Do we really want someone that uses such language and talks about burning people for kicks representing this community? It's up to each of us to decide that, what's not fair is everythime someone makes a mistake, the angry vocal minority comes to TL or reddit and tries to force their views on stuff to the others that don't feel the same way about everything. The guy made a mistake, he doesn't deserve to die, be banned, be fired by EG, etc.. because of it.. There are bigger problems in eSports and the world then someone saying some bullshit stupid comments privately to someone. | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
hey, everyone. alex (ceo of evil geniuses) here. i'll be making a formal statement about this situation later today. i just wanted to assure everyone that we're aware of these allegations, and that we're taking them very, very seriously. there will be ramifications here. their severity is something we're still determining, but there's no doubt that the situation requires action on our part. please try to be patient as we discuss the matter internally. Incoming statement about the situation. Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/qmvdb/orb_really_loves_the_n_word_on_ladder/c3yxw35 On March 09 2012 02:43 shell wrote: It's up to each of us to decide that, what's not fair is everythime someone makes a mistake, the angry vocal minority comes to TL or reddit and tries to force their views on stuff to the others that don't feel the same way about everything. The guy made a mistake, he doesn't deserve to die, be banned, be fired by EG, etc.. because of it.. There are bigger problems in eSports and the world then someone saying some bullshit stupid comments privately to someone. I completely agree. I find it really dumb to get upset on someone for calling another person "hey,you black dude" but with "nigger". What is this world? Chill down. | ||
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suspiciousbear
Canada112 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 09 2012 02:09 betaman wrote: So he can do whatever he wants as long as it is outside his professional life? He can attend KKK meetings (i dont think orb is a racist btw i just think hes an idiot) but as it is outside his professional life its ok? Get a clue, when you become a figurehead of a community everything you do represents that community whether that is right or wrong it is simply a fact. Understandable (although it does feel blacklist-ish to me). But if you don't think he's racist then again I don't see what the problem is. People should be allowed to be stupid and get drunk and such. Losing your job over it? After apologies to the community? Don't you think that's too far? | ||
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Quenchiest
Canada286 Posts
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smallerk
897 Posts
He never showed any of this unprofessional behaviour while he was on stream, so i dont see why people are being so harsh to him, everyone rages, everyone gets mad playing online games.Plus, he already more than likely learned his lesson, and will never do it again, i dont see why he should lose his job because he lashed out at someone on the ladder once or twice. Reddit is so sad, just a bunch of people that never had a real job complaining immaturely so they can get imaginary internet points. I dont think it's ok to insult people like he did , for the record.I just think the sc2 community is overreacting once again. | ||
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Titorelli
2492 Posts
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Tortious_Tortoise
United States944 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:37 Slardar wrote: HEY THREAD, Let Him/Her who is without sin cast the first stone. People going all wild and rampant about this is not the answer, its the internet. We've all said and done things we may or may not regret, so we should cut Orb some slack. Once he's making millions like the Sports Commentators, we can burn him at the stake but until then stop going on a witchhunt. Although I don't agree at ALL with what he has said, as long as he apologizes (which he has) and makes a conscious effort to act professional in order to lead the scene then all is well. The caveat is you can only do this oh so many times, if you can't be mature and act professional then you should be promptly removed or step down from the scene. Slardar, you're my favorite stream mod since Maia, but I disagree whole-heartedly in this case. Proliferation of racial slurs from a representative of the community is unacceptable. His words and his public image reflects the public image of the StarCraft community and, by extension, that of eSports. Do we want someone who is childish, offensive, and uncontrollably angry to represent us? I don't think the "let he among us without sin cast the first stone" holds water either. Orb is a figurehead and a representative of the entire community, and as such, must be held to a higher degree of scrutiny than the rest of us. He should be the model for others, and, in light of this overwhelming evidence, his influence has been entirely negative. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44391 Posts
On March 09 2012 03:01 Titorelli wrote: Wait did this whole thing happen back in the beta or a couple of days ago? Kinda missed all that Once in a while he's made these remarks on his stream (never in his casts), as far back as the beta. From what I've gathered, the most recent remark was made before he joined EG though (not while actually being on EG). And he's never made these comments while commentating a match, only while playing the game (he occasionally rages and BMs while streaming). I think ^^ If someone else can elaborate/ clarify, please do | ||
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Korste
United States64 Posts
please dont stop just because i few whiney kids are mad that you bm on ladder. and a bunch of nerds mad that you smoke tree's.... /facepalm stay faded, man. | ||
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Slapshot
95 Posts
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Polygamy
Austria1114 Posts
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befek
Poland413 Posts
You are good caster, enthusiastic about the game - keep up. | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
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Slardar
Canada7593 Posts
On March 09 2012 03:12 mbr2321 wrote: Slardar, you're my favorite stream mod since Maia, but I disagree whole-heartedly in this case. Proliferation of racial slurs from a representative of the community is unacceptable. His words and his public image reflects the public image of the StarCraft community and, by extension, that of eSports. Do we want someone who is childish, offensive, and uncontrollably angry to represent us? I don't think the "let he among us without sin cast the first stone" holds water either. Orb is a figurehead and a representative of the entire community, and as such, must be held to a higher degree of scrutiny than the rest of us. He should be the model for others, and, in light of this overwhelming evidence, his influence has been entirely negative. Awww Thanks Mbr2321! <3 I agree with you on all points to be honest, but I'm just not quite sure how much he TRULY represents at this point and time. He is the marquee caster for ESV Korean Weeklies, but other then that he is not on the level of Day9 , Artosis, or djWHEAT, (Whom I feel truly represent the scene). Now he's moving up to bigger things like the EG Masters Cup, on the bright side, it's a good thing this popped up now earlier the better we can work it out. It is TOTALLY unacceptable, but I think everyone makes mistakes and he hasn't been given an opportunity to shine in the big spotlight yet. I personally forgive him, but this is amateur league mistakes and I don't expect it to happen again or else second time around like you said, "Do we want someone who is childish, offensive, and uncontrollably angry to represent us?" definitely not. | ||
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betaman
United Kingdom355 Posts
On March 09 2012 02:51 DoubleReed wrote: Understandable (although it does feel blacklist-ish to me). But if you don't think he's racist then again I don't see what the problem is. People should be allowed to be stupid and get drunk and such. Losing your job over it? After apologies to the community? Don't you think that's too far? I never said he should be fired, thats not my decision, but a sports commentator in any professional sport would be fired instantly for making half as offensive comments. Also he didn't apologise in the first instance he tried to to blame it on a friend using his account. This is very poor behaviour too as it is very likely that it was him and he is lying. He only apologised when further instances of him using the word were brought to light that he couldnt say wasn't him. | ||
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Rorschach
United States623 Posts
On March 09 2012 03:44 Slapshot wrote: Orb has some pretty severe anger management issues but I'm more disgusted by the pitchfork attitude on reddit where some pathetic users really go out of their way to get someone fired. I hang out a lot in r/starcraft and I am disgusted on how often the community gets up in arms over stupid shit. Making a huge deal out of next to nothing.... There are so many popular "Pros" that rage and BM on their streams. This is the internet, most users on it our foul mouthed and if you didn't want to witness it go read a book. People have nothing better to do with their time I suppose than to try and make someone lose their job.... | ||
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dsousa
United States1363 Posts
That being said, I don't think there is any coming back from this controversy. Any organization that hires him, is going to open themselves up to criticism for why they did so despite their knowlegdge of these events. I don't think that's necessarily fair, but its the world we live in. Ask Jimmy the Greek, Mel Gibson, or even Rush Limbaugh. If he falls on his swords apologizes, he'll just bring more attention to it and it won't go away. If he ignores it, and claims it wasn't him.... he might hang on, but he'll be silently blackballed and won't get any good gigs. Sadly, its almost impossible now for him to become a significant caster..... if he represents e-sports on a grand stage, he opens up all of e-sports to criticism of being bigoted. What sponsor or event would want that taint on their event? For the record, I think its just words, and words would never hurt me...... but he happened to pick the right words that set society ablaze... its a weird cultural phenomena, but that specific word is the biggest taboo. Almost no one comes back from that.... If you're in the public eye, you have to be smarter than that.... even though I doubt you REALLY offended anyone, you gave the trolls and the esports good guys all the ammo they need. | ||
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On March 09 2012 04:10 Rorschach wrote: I hang out a lot in r/starcraft and I am disgusted on how often the community gets up in arms over stupid shit. Making a huge deal out of next to nothing.... There are so many popular "Pros" that rage and BM on their streams. This is the internet, most users on it our foul mouthed and if you didn't want to witness it go read a book. People have nothing better to do with their time I suppose than to try and make someone lose their job.... Stop conflating different forms of 'BM'. Getting angry and insulting people when you lose isn't unique, it's the fact that he keeps using the blatantly racist term 'nigger'. That's what the issue is. | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
On March 09 2012 04:04 betaman wrote: I never said he should be fired, thats not my decision, but a sports commentator in any professional sport would be fired instantly for making half as offensive comments. And you think that's what ESPORTS needs? To become more like TV, where everyone has to be totally fake and walk on eggshells so that they don't anger the corporate overlords who control all the content and perspectives of the media? Yeah, no. I mean I don't wanna see orb dropping the N-bomb on an SC2 cast but we have this problem in our society where we think everyone should be under all-seeing scrutiny 100% of the time. It's fucking disgusting, this community is full of a bunch of digital stalkers with no lives of their own, so they obsess over internet personalities... Wake up and look at the real world people, Language is colourful and often offensive, it is every man's right to speak how he wants on his own time, and no one word or phrase can define that man's character. Saying nigger doesn't make you a racist, saying faggot doesn't make you a homophobe, saying fuck doesn't make you a pervert. | ||
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dsousa
United States1363 Posts
On March 09 2012 04:15 darkscream wrote: And you think that's what ESPORTS needs? To become more like TV, where everyone has to be totally fake and walk on eggshells so that they don't anger the corporate overlords who control all the content and perspectives of the media? Yeah, no. I mean I don't wanna see orb dropping the N-bomb on an SC2 cast but we have this problem in our society where we think everyone should be under all-seeing scrutiny 100% of the time. It's fucking disgusting, this community is full of a bunch of digital stalkers with no lives of their own, so they obsess over internet personalities... Wake up and look at the real world people, Language is colourful and often offensive, it is every man's right to speak how he wants on his own time, and no one word or phrase can define that man's character. Saying nigger doesn't make you a racist, saying faggot doesn't make you a homophobe, saying fuck doesn't make you a pervert. It doesn't make you so, but it opens you up to being attacked as such. If you are representing sponsors, you are opening them up to attack. That's all...... but there are 100's of casters, why would one with this on their track record be preferred by sponsors? You're right, except when you have sponsors behind you, you have to live up to a higher standard. The guy who really screwed Orb, was the guy who posted it to Reddit. Once that got to the top of the page, his SC2 career was done. I don't think that's fair..... Mel Gibson doesn't either..... but that's the world we live in. Easier to change your caster than to change the world. | ||
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BearDK
Denmark101 Posts
I think the difference should be acknowledged. | ||
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d3_crescentia
United States4054 Posts
On March 09 2012 03:58 TheAntZ wrote: I dont get how orb can be this angry if he smokes trees. It just... doesn't make sense... maybe he's full of rage when he's not high... | ||
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guluru
United States83 Posts
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On March 09 2012 04:19 d3_crescentia wrote: maybe he's full of rage when he's not high... There are quite a few cannabis forums full of people who smoke massive quantities of high quality stuff and are far right wing, violent and racist. I don't know how it's physically possible either, its a crazy world. | ||
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RoberP
United Kingdom101 Posts
On March 09 2012 04:19 BearDK wrote: I think it is relevant that the "incident" took place in circumstances where Orb was not representing EG. He was just himself on the ladder, so I don't see how this affects EG in a major way. He does not represent them when he is playing SC2, however, he represents EG when casting. I think the difference should be acknowledged. An organization associates with the person, and all the baggage that goes with it, rather than one of his personas. People don't hire convicted felons, regardless of whether the crime they committed was in their private lives or related to their job. Not saying he's done anything like that, but when you hire a person, you get everything else with it! People don't look at things in abstract. | ||
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AngelusDeLetum
United States98 Posts
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Eiaco
170 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 09 2012 04:31 Eiaco wrote: I gave you feeback on your stream once and you told me to die in a fiery hole. Sounds like you gave really crappy feedback. | ||
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Eiaco
170 Posts
On March 09 2012 04:36 DoubleReed wrote: Sounds like you gave really crappy feedback. Not really, he said "I dont understand how I lost that". I told him why he lost then he got real angry. | ||
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On March 09 2012 04:38 Eiaco wrote: Not really, he said "I dont understand how I lost that". I told him why he lost then he got real angry. That's like the worst thing to do to a progamer. Even Sheth got upset because of that. Maybe as a former Progamer he still feels this way | ||
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ThatGuy89
United Kingdom1968 Posts
most annoying thing a caster can ever do its why i refuse to watch artosis demuslim vs diestar game 3. FML | ||
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
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Banj0
Sweden53 Posts
agreed. People like day9 don't ever bm on ladder because: either he is too smart to hurt his public character by bm'ing, or - more likely - he is simply above bm all together. Like Sheth. On topic: Orb, I enjoy your casting a lot (and I am pretty picky). I am listening to the EG vs Millenium re-broadcast right now, and in my opinion you and InControl work well together. You don't seem to interrupt too much and most importantly, you are having a conversation about the game with your cocaster, which is a lot better than casters like Khaldor who often cuts his co-caster off to loudly point out the most obvious elements in the engagement that we are all watching or pointing out the supply difference for the ump-tenth time. Speaking a little slower could give your casting a little more authority. Speaking really fast can sometimes send a signal that you are afraid people are not listening or will stop paying attention to you at any moment. And it doesn't have to be a TotalBisquit-style boisterous authority, think more like Artosis who can slow down a little to underline the importance of the statement he is making. Good luck at EG, I hope you accept the heat from this whole 'nerd-rage' incident and put it behind you. EDIT: please don't ever ever shout/scream during casts like ThatGuy above me stated as well (you screamed just as I hit the 'post' button, basically) | ||
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
On March 09 2012 02:44 ceaRshaf wrote: Incoming statement about the situation. Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/qmvdb/orb_really_loves_the_n_word_on_ladder/c3yxw35 I completely agree. I find it really dumb to get upset on someone for calling another person "hey,you black dude" but with "nigger". What is this world? Chill down. Doesn't this Orb "nigger" rage drama deserve its own thread? I mean this is a thread directed at casting feedback, not feedback of his rage outbursts on stream or ladder. Nonetheless, I do think there needs to be ramifications and that Alex should either fire him on the spot or keep him on a really tight leash, especially if Katu can get fired from Playhem (an organisation with much smaller scale leagues/tournaments than the EG Masters Cup or North American Star League (which Orb has been involved in too, and which have one or two similar sponsors to EG (namely Kingston HyperX.)) for making jokes during a cast about a stream cheater. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On March 09 2012 04:55 Clbull wrote: Doesn't this Orb "nigger" rage drama deserve its own thread? I mean this is a thread directed at casting feedback, not feedback of his rage outbursts on stream or ladder. Nonetheless, I do think there needs to be ramifications, especially if Katu can get fired from Playhem for making jokes during a cast about a stream cheater. Yes this is relevant to his casting because, last I checked, people aren't just racists during their free time. It's already affecting his career and it will continue to do so if he doesn't cut it out. | ||
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JOJOsc2news
3000 Posts
There is no place for racism or sexism in this community in my opinion and the fact that he so obviously tried to cover it up instead of taking a beating that he could have recovered from makes me think that ramifications will be severe! Instead of apologizing and learning (people can forgive) he decided to be defensive and even aggressive (see his tweets) about it. That's something that is definitely not in favor of his case and puts a lot of pressure on EG now in my opinion. I don't know. I think we should wait for the official statement from Alex (EG CEO) now. No matter what comes, orb will face ramifications, it is not exactly a great start into a new job. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
On March 09 2012 04:39 Hardigan wrote: That's like the worst thing to do to a progamer. Even Sheth got upset because of that. Maybe as a former Progamer he still feels this way ...Orb has never been a professional gamer, lol. On March 09 2012 05:04 JOJOsc2news wrote: The story about a friend using his account that was proven to be made up really hurt his integrity in my opinion. This was disproven? Youch. I'll be honest, I hope Orb loses his deal with EG. This whole thing is just way, way too negative. Idra is BM in an entertaining and somewhat funny way. You'd never see him call someone a racial slur, though. And he wouldn't lie about it. EG, I know that you thrive on attention and whatnot, but this is very distasteful attention. I will *not* be watching events casted by Orb. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
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momonami5
United States109 Posts
hurt my ears. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:10 Mohdoo wrote: This was disproven? Youch. I'll be honest, I hope Orb loses his deal with EG. This whole thing is just way, way too negative. Idra is BM in an entertaining and somewhat funny way. You'd never see him call someone a racial slur, though. And he wouldn't lie about it. EG, I know that you thrive on attention and whatnot, but this is very distasteful attention. I will *not* be watching events casted by Orb. 'Kimchiman' comes to mind but yeah he would never lie about it. That's the thing, everyone can say stupid shit when the adrenalin starts pumping but to then start to lie about it and pretend to be the victim of 'fabrications' as he put it, that's when the real character shows. | ||
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Slapshot
95 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:10 Mohdoo wrote: This was disproven? Youch. I'll be honest, I hope Orb loses his deal with EG. This whole thing is just way, way too negative. Idra is BM in an entertaining and somewhat funny way. You'd never see him call someone a racial slur, though. And he wouldn't lie about it. EG, I know that you thrive on attention and whatnot, but this is very distasteful attention. I will *not* be watching events casted by Orb. Funny that you bring up Idra, who also works for EG and has used the word "faggot" multiple times but I guess he is a bit too valuable to take any measures against or maybe homophobic slurs aren't considered as offensive. Nice double double standard. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
Sort of shocked the mods allow this to go on when it has nothing to do with feedback...... | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:27 Longshank wrote: 'Kimchiman' comes to mind but yeah he would never lie about it. That's the thing, everyone can say stupid shit when the adrenalin starts pumping but to then start to lie about it and pretend to be the victim of 'fabrications' as he put it, that's when the real character shows. Kimchiman is more of a "lol" thing than a slur. Lots of Koreans are heard saying that "Kimchi-terran" is imba. There are racial slurs for Koreans, but kimchi is just a tasty dish ^_^ lol. | ||
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Slardar
Canada7593 Posts
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:34 Slapshot wrote: Funny that you bring up Idra, I've seen him use the word "faggot" multiple times but I guess he is a bit too valuable for EG to take any measures or maybe homophobic slurs aren't considered as offensive. Nice double double standard. And once again someone acts as if there's no distinction between the word 'faggot' and 'nigger'. There is a difference, and it's massive. Although the word 'faggot' is homophobic it was thrown around for many years without any thought, especially by young people. It was used interchangeably with other mindless insults, such as 'gay'. That doesn't justify people using it but it makes it a hell of a lot more understandable and innocent than using 'nigger'. Anyone who lives in America should know that the latter is considered far, far more offensive. I can only imagine that people like you are playing dumb and pretending to not know that 'nigger' has a very unique place among insults. It's so well understood in America that you would have to be completely cut off from the mainstream. On March 09 2012 05:44 Slardar wrote: Also, what I think is most important which I don't has been mentioned is WHEN did all this happen? From what I've gathered looking around, this has been all on his stream in the BETA. I think this needs some clarification, as something done a year ago can be more excused (i.e. he's matured in that time) but if the events are recent, then that justifies the witch hunting a touch. I don't know exactly when you can probably find out by looking through the reddit thread. I do know that this was quite recent, certainly not during the beta. They were able to confirm that it was orb by looking through his recent match history. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 09 2012 04:56 Klondikebar wrote: Yes this is relevant to his casting because, last I checked, people aren't just racists during their free time. It's already affecting his career and it will continue to do so if he doesn't cut it out. Do you honestly think orb is racist? Because if you don't then this post is way out of line. If you do then you need to get better acquainted with reality. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:47 DoubleReed wrote: Do you honestly think orb is racist? Because if you don't then this post is way out of line. Yes, I think people who use racial slurs are racist. You can twist logic all you want to make it seem like it's ok but language that marginalizes any minority group is bigoted and unacceptable. I feel like this should be common sense but I'll spell out my position clearly: Do not use racial slurs. | ||
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Slapshot
95 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:45 Silvertine wrote: And once again someone acts as if there's no distinction between the word 'faggot' and 'nigger'. There is a difference, and it's massive. Although the word 'faggot' is homophobic it was thrown around for many years without any thought, especially by young people. It was used interchangeably with other mindless insults, such as 'gay'. That doesn't justify people using it but it makes it a hell of a lot more understandable and innocent than using 'nigger'. Anyone who lives in America should know that the latter is considered far, far more offensive. I can only imagine that people like you are playing dumb and pretending to not know that 'nigger' has a very unique place among insults. It's so well understood in America that you would have to be completely cut off from the mainstream. Americans being moral hypocrites in these kind of cases is nothing new. | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:44 Slardar wrote: Also, what I think is most important which I don't has been mentioned is WHEN did all this happen? From what I've gathered looking around, this has been all on his stream in the BETA. I think this needs some clarification, as something done a year ago can be more excused (i.e. he's matured in that time) but if the events are recent, then that justifies the witch hunting a touch. They're recent. What people mean when they say BETA is that orb has always acted like this since Beta and has never changed. | ||
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blamous
United States377 Posts
Give me a break people. We have had this conversation before. If he was doing this stuff in public recently, on his stream with THOUSands of viewers, I could see why you might get upset. but most of the recent pictures that have come out have been from private ladder games that weren't even streamed (afaik), and all of the "public" evidence is from old stream vods. If we all got fleeced for the things we said in private behind closed doors not one of you would be able to show your face. The utter hypocrisy surrounding this whole thing is astounding. I like Orb's casting, he is one of the best. Until his underwear was thrown in my face I would have never known what his ass smelled like. Shame on all who are perpetuating this and trying to ruin this guys shot at a career in ESPORTS. Shame on you all. | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
Always been a fan of your casting, was really happy to see you on the MCSL broadcast. Reddit will be reddit, just ignore them and keep up the good work. Best caster in the scene, hands down. If worse comes to worst, you're always welcome to come work with Katu. | ||
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:52 Slapshot wrote: Americans being moral hypocrites in these kind of cases is nothing new. People from outside of America not understanding the weight that the term 'nigger' carries, nothing new. | ||
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:56 blamous wrote: If we all got fleeced for the things we said in private behind closed doors not one of you would be able to show your face. I'm pretty sure telling people on BNet that they're 'niggers' doesn't qualify as "in private behind closed doors". edit: sry double post | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:49 Klondikebar wrote: Yes, I think people who use racial slurs are racist. You can twist logic all you want to make it seem like it's ok but language that marginalizes any minority group is bigoted and unacceptable. I feel like this should be common sense but I'll spell out my position clearly: Do not use racial slurs. Wow, welcome to the Internet good sir. I didn't realize we had a newcomer. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:57 Silvertine wrote: People from outside of America not understanding the weight that the term 'nigger' carries, nothing new. Privileged but ignorant Americans not understanding that their homophobia isn't excusable or justifiable just because lots of people on the internet have it. Is it really so hard to understand that any bigoted language is bad? | ||
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fidelity
Sweden410 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:00 DoubleReed wrote: Wow, welcome to the Internet good sir. I didn't realize we had a newcomer. If people want to post nigger jokes on 4chan I couldn't care less, but orb is a representative of a big e-sports team. He is representing the starcraft community and what he says matters. He may not realise this, but it's a fact wether he likes it or not. If he can't keep his racist remarks to himself he isn't fit to represent a banana stand. | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:57 Silvertine wrote: People from outside of America not understanding the weight that the term 'nigger' carries, nothing new. I think this is kind of true for europeans. Look at the soccer leagues in europe and how many incidents there are of racism and black soccer players being called monkeys by fans. Rio Ferdinand has come out before and talked about the racism in soccer in europe. They're just desensitized to it I think and don't realize the impact those kinds of words cause. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:04 fidelity wrote: If people want to post nigger jokes on 4chan I couldn't care less, but orb is a representative of a big e-sports team. He is representing the starcraft community and what he says matters. He may not realise this, but it's a fact wether he likes it or not. If he can't keep his racist remarks to himself he isn't fit to represent a banana stand. we are not anon or /b/tards. and he has to be subjected under higher standards whether he likes it or not | ||
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farvacola
United States18829 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:00 Klondikebar wrote: Privileged but ignorant Americans not understanding that their homophobia isn't excusable or justifiable just because lots of people on the internet have it. Is it really so hard to understand that any bigoted language is bad? Your lack of willingness to challenge stereotypical implementations of "offensive" language is truly frightening, you act as though certain words or phrases are perpetually tied together with their temporal use/meaning, when nothing could be farther from the truth. To combat the hateful/racist/bigoted ideas that give offensive context to slurs seems the most noble of goals. Meanwhile, you simply blanket label certain sorts of expressions as "bad", and the end result is only a further entrenchment of stereotypes. Nothing is ever so black and white. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:04 fidelity wrote: If people want to post nigger jokes on 4chan I couldn't care less, but orb is a representative of a big e-sports team. He is representing the starcraft community and what he says matters. He may not realise this, but it's a fact wether he likes it or not. If he can't keep his racist remarks to himself he isn't fit to represent a banana stand. Dude if you think every person who uses the n word online is racist then you just need a reality check man. Cause that's the post you responded to you know. Maybe you didn't get that. | ||
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:00 Klondikebar wrote: Privileged but ignorant Americans not understanding that their homophobia isn't excusable or justifiable just because lots of people on the internet have it. Learn to read, I specifically said that it isn't justifiable to use the term 'faggot'. In fact, I think it's disgusting. I was merely pointing out the fact that it's considered far more offensive to use the term 'nigger', which it is. Is it really so hard to understand that any bigoted language is bad? Again, learn to read. I never said anything to the contrary. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:08 farvacola wrote: Your lack of willingness to challenge stereotypical implementations of "offensive" language is truly frightening, you act as though certain words or phrases are perpetually tied together with their temporal use/meaning, when nothing could be farther from the truth. To combat the hateful/racist/bigoted ideas that give offensive context to slurs seems the most noble of goals. Meanwhile, you simply blanket label certain sorts of expressions as "bad", and the end result is only a further entrenchment of stereotypes. Nothing is ever so black and white. Did you copy paste that from a 1960's textbook? I genuinely feel like "don't be a bigot" is a very very simple thing to ask and yet for some reason I'm met with this...wtf is this? | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
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farvacola
United States18829 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:10 Klondikebar wrote: Did you copy paste that from a 1960's textbook? I genuinely feel like "don't be a bigot" is a very very simple thing to ask and yet for some reason I'm met with this...wtf is this? "Don't be a bigot" and "Never use conventionally bigoted language" are two incredibly different things. And if my language reminds you of textbooks then I am flattered. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:13 farvacola wrote: "Don't be a bigot" and "Never use conventionally bigoted language" are two incredibly different things. And if my language reminds you of textbooks then I am flattered. If it walks like a bigot and talks like a bigot, it's probably a bigot. If you're using bigoted language one of two things is true: 1. You have a grossly limited vocabulary. 2. You are a bigot. I said your language reminds me of a textbook from the 1960's. Using big words to justify intolerance for tiny minds. | ||
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boxman22
Canada430 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:13 farvacola wrote: "Don't be a bigot" and "Never use conventionally bigoted language" are two incredibly different things. And if my language reminds you of textbooks then I am flattered. Are they really though? Why would calling someone a nigger be a bad thing other than it still carrying a negative connotation? As long as you're using that term you're still affirming that being black is a bad thing, and calling someone black is an insult. Orb's a professional. He should have apologized and moved on. He doubled down and got caught. Now it's a much bigger problem | ||
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Tofugrinder
Austria899 Posts
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MercilessMonkey
Canada150 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:21 boxman22 wrote: Are they really though? Why would calling someone a nigger be a bad thing other than it still carrying a negative connotation? As long as you're using that term you're still affirming that being black is a bad thing, and calling someone black is an insult. Orb's a professional. He should have apologized and moved on. He doubled down and got caught. Now it's a much bigger problem I think that's a pretty big part of it. When people own up to their mistakes and don't make excuses about it, most people can usually forgive and get over it. Ya it still wouldn't have been good, but it could be been a lot less bad. Reminds me of that whole incontrol restream thing a while back, which turned out to not be so terrible because he quickly and sincerely apologized, on top of explaining his actions. | ||
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pepsimaxibon
61 Posts
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BrauL
Canada197 Posts
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LF9
United States537 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:11 hunts wrote: I'm not a fan of orb's casting. I don't like how his voice is high pitched nasaly and whiny, although I understand you can't really control your voice. I'm not a fan of the way he commentates, mainly how excited he gets, and how he tries to be analytic without the knowledge that the true analytic casters like day9 and artosis have. I don't like how he rages and has no respect for anyone (granted that's not during casting but still.) I am sad that to watch the EG masters cup I'll have to put up with his casting, unless he improves. Seconded. Orb is a terrible, annoying caster. The fact that his personal behavior is reprehensible only means that he will be fired for the wrong reason. Even if this hadn't happened, I still would expect him to be given the boot within a few months' time. He shouldn't even have been a featured caster on TL in the first place; quality is going way downhill with this new "casting is the new esports career everyone aspires to because progaming itself is too hard" fad getting so out of control that everyone is trying to be a caster the same way everyone was trying to be a pro gamer 2 years ago before most of them realized that it required talent. | ||
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Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
On topic I don't really see the big deal, I agree orb comes out as kind of a douche. But it's ladder, everyone has been frustrated on ladder. I enjoy his casting and will continue to do so.... | ||
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pt
United States813 Posts
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Kuja
United States1759 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:25 pepsimaxibon wrote: from the other thread, which got locked: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This has been buried in Orb's Stream thread so I'm gonna recap here as objectively as possible: Original post on Reddit: ![[image loading]](http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/5828/loldamnv.png) link to comments To which Orb originally responds with: after some scrutiny from Reddit in which they prove it was his account, he edits in: Reddit proceeds to put more heat on, assessing that whoever played on that account had a suspisciously similar playstyle to Orb, played at a Masters level despite not owning their own account, and had his exact hotkey setup. He was also seen to be watching the replay on stream. Orb reacts to this scrutinty with extreme defensiveness, routinely deploying the word "slander" and accusing anyone who disputed his claims of "fabricating infomation". At about this point, LiveOnThree was airing, SirScoots felt the need to urgently address the situation due to it boiling over on Reddit (even reaching the front page). SirScoots stated: Soon after, a second Reddit thread turned up. With accusations of multiple counts of almost identical language: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/N2EwAh.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/P0qs6h.jpg) comments This time, there was evidence enough to incontrovertibly prove it was him.. Despite his attempt to remove the VOD which proved a smoking gun. Some hours into the thread, Orb issued this apology, purely regarding the second incident that he was caught red handed for. At no point does he make a reference to the original incident or apologise for all those who he accused of "slander". Alex Garfield Issued a pre-emptive statement: Shortly after which, a third Reddit thread landed which proved his use of racial slurs on stream: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aMiN5.jpg) I'll leave you to make your own judgements. | ||
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meatybacon
United States36 Posts
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pt
United States813 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:26 Zorgaz wrote: How can this topic get so freaking big !? I don't get why these drama threads seem to take over all the forums, please can't you leave it to other sites like reddit? people love to tell other people that they are upset and why they are upset. its a new trend or something. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:26 pt wrote: these types of discussions are the reason why the word "nigger" is so scary. if no one cared, then no one would care. That's true for every "curse" word basically. We give it any power it has. | ||
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mapthesoul
Trinidad/Tobago429 Posts
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Trsjnica
United States477 Posts
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pt
United States813 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:27 Numy wrote: That's true for every "curse" word basically. We give it any power it has. agreed. its like people just want to make logical explanation for things just because they can, not because they actually want to prove a point. | ||
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MrRicewife
Canada515 Posts
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Nabes
Canada1800 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:26 Zorgaz wrote: How can this topic get so freaking big !? I don't get why these drama threads seem to take over all the forums, please can't you leave it to other sites like reddit? On topic I don't really see the big deal, I agree orb comes out as kind of a douche. But it's ladder, everyone has been frustrated on ladder. I enjoy his casting and will continue to do so.... not everyone visits reddit, i think its fair to let people on TL know whats going on with it. | ||
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DrN0
United Kingdom184 Posts
For god's sake it is so ridiculous that you think you can speak about racial injustice please do not attempt to do so. Also the quote below demonstates a good point, anybody who just takes anything at face value and does not truly think about how and why this is wrong you are only perpetuating the problem. Too many kids are just told not to say certain words and that racism is bad but are not taught why. This leads to kids just grouping it in with a lot of other no no words like fuck and shit and they are most definitely not the same. If you just assume anything to do with race is racist then you are going to live a very sheltered life scared to say what you think for fear of being racist, you must understand why and how things are racist. For example you can not say all blacks are convicts that is racist but saying a large majority of convicts are black is a statistical fact and is important in order to understand social economic problems that plague such minorities, if you just avoid the topic for fear of being racist then you don't fix an obvious problem that too many minorites live in poverty and commit crimes to survive. AS far as orb is concerned there is no governing body in esports its up to EG and himself to take responsibility. Also anyone who listed football or soccer as a reason europeans is more accepting of racism are retarded, football is constantly trying to stamp out racism, Luis Suarez used a word that many in his country do not even deem more offensive then calling someone caucasian and he was forced to miss 9 matches which is a huge punishment, not to mention John Terry is going on trial for alleged racism he says he used the word nigger in his defence ie. "No I did not call you a nigger". Again you have no idea what you are talking about so why spout so much crap. On March 09 2012 06:08 farvacola wrote: Your lack of willingness to challenge stereotypical implementations of "offensive" language is truly frightening, you act as though certain words or phrases are perpetually tied together with their temporal use/meaning, when nothing could be farther from the truth. To combat the hateful/racist/bigoted ideas that give offensive context to slurs seems the most noble of goals. Meanwhile, you simply blanket label certain sorts of expressions as "bad", and the end result is only a further entrenchment of stereotypes. Nothing is ever so black and white. | ||
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:30 DrN0 wrote: the only way you will ever understand the weight of the word nigger is if you are black and have been subject to this abuse, short of that please don't pretend you know, you will never know do not pretend to know you will never be able to empathize the fact you think you can shows how badly you understand it. Please explain why someone has to be black to understand that the term 'nigger' is horrendous and unique among insults. I await your silly response. | ||
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DrN0
United Kingdom184 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:33 Silvertine wrote: Please explain why someone has to be black to understand that the term 'nigger' is horrendous and unique among insults. I await your silly response. You serious? I am not saying you can't understand why it is a bad word but you will never know what it feels like to be called nigger, you pretending you can is the most insulting thing you can do. I am saying you will never understand the WEIGHT of the word, not that you can't have a basic grasp that it is the very worst thing you can say. | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
SC2 isn't simply going to grow into a majestic global eSport if the community dismisses the faults of the representatives. In other words, as long as the community defends the offender or dismisses the offences, that's exactly where the level of eSports will stay at. From what I can gather from TL community news and staff moderations, this place is for those that wish to see SC2, other competitive games - and in large - eSports - to grow into a popular, legitimate, and accessible recreational culture. Where's your eSports at? Is it okay to blatantly throw a televised tournament game just because it has no effect in the tournament standings? Is it okay for a public figure to make racist/sexist/homophobic remarks in a public game? Is it okay to make accusatory statements on a broadcast? Is it okay to lie repeatedly to the employer only to apologize when caught without a shadow of doubt? We are all responsible. You choose how eSports will evolve. Choose carefully. | ||
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:37 DrN0 wrote: You serious? I am not saying you can't understand why it is a bad word but you will never know what it feels like to be called nigger, you pretending you can is the most insulting thing you can do. Where did I claim to know what it's like to be called a nigger? | ||
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DrN0
United Kingdom184 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:39 Silvertine wrote: Where did I claim to know what it's like to be called a nigger? Read again I edited, and as I have said oh so many times now you will not truly understand the word until you have been on the receiving end so us trying to speak as if we have authority on the matter and saying it is 'no big deal' is perpuating the problem. | ||
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Moralez
Portugal1857 Posts
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:57 Silvertine wrote: People from outside of America not understanding the weight that the term 'nigger' carries, nothing new. There's nothing innocent or understandable about calling someone a faggot or using gay as an insult. I understand that 'nigger' is completely off limits, even to the point where I would refer to it as 'the N word' in public in the US. But you should also understand that mainstream USA is seen as more forgiving towards open homophobia than Western Europe. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:57 Silvertine wrote: People from outside of America not understanding the weight that the term 'nigger' carries, nothing new. Man there was black people in europe long before a black man ever stepped on the american continent, americans thinking the world starts in the US of A.. Portugal took 3/4 of the slaves to the americas, it's nothing i'm proud, but I understand what the slave word means and what were the circunstances of it, maybe even better then you. The situation shouldn't be any better for the black people outside of USA. Other times, other cultures, people evolve, noways calling "nigger" to a computer screen in a game when he is a video game caster in his private time shouldn't be considered a personal atack to a race, it was a mistake and childish but nothing more. | ||
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Xaoz
Germany146 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:39 OpticalShot wrote: My understanding is that Orb is a relatively well-known public figure. Specifically, he is a caster working for EG. SC2 isn't simply going to grow into a majestic global eSport if the community dismisses the faults of the representatives. In other words, as long as the community defends the offender or dismisses the offences, that's exactly where the level of eSports will stay at. From what I can gather from TL community news and staff moderations, this place is for those that wish to see SC2, other competitive games - and in large - eSports - to grow into a popular, legitimate, and accessible recreational culture. Where's your eSports at? Is it okay to blatantly throw a televised tournament game just because it has no effect in the tournament standings? Is it okay for a public figure to make racist/sexist/homophobic remarks in a public game? Is it okay to make accusatory statements on a broadcast? Is it okay to lie repeatedly to the employer only to apologize when caught without a shadow of doubt? We are all responsible. You choose how eSports will evolve. Choose carefully. I agree. And I have no idea how people can just say it doesn t matter or even defend him. | ||
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DrN0
United Kingdom184 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:43 hypercube wrote: There's nothing innocent or understandable about calling someone a faggot or using gay as an insult. I understand that 'nigger' is completely off limits, even to the point where I would refer to it as 'the N word' in public in the US. But you should also understand that mainstream USA is seen as more forgiving towards open homophobia than Western Europe. Please, The UK is the most progressive nation out there when it comes to homosexuality and we are a part of western europe. | ||
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:39 OpticalShot wrote: My understanding is that Orb is a relatively well-known public figure. Specifically, he is a caster working for EG. SC2 isn't simply going to grow into a majestic global eSport if the community dismisses the faults of the representatives. In other words, as long as the community defends the offender or dismisses the offences, that's exactly where the level of eSports will stay at. From what I can gather from TL community news and staff moderations, this place is for those that wish to see SC2, other competitive games - and in large - eSports - to grow into a popular, legitimate, and accessible recreational culture. Where's your eSports at? Is it okay to blatantly throw a televised tournament game just because it has no effect in the tournament standings? Is it okay for a public figure to make racist/sexist/homophobic remarks in a public game? Is it okay to make accusatory statements on a broadcast? Is it okay to lie repeatedly to the employer only to apologize when caught without a shadow of doubt? We are all responsible. You choose how eSports will evolve. Choose carefully. Pretty much this. I don't condone the vocabulary of Destiny, Spades, or others that use racial slurs when streaming, which is strange because they swear and make racial comments all day and it glazes past the ears of anyone who is watching the stream. However, Orb says one racial slur and suddenly he is the hot topic on TL. Maybe this is because he is more of a "public" figure, but I still don't get why there is a double standard here. I think anyone who makes these comments should have the same treatment as Orb is currently receiving, and that is harsh criticism from the SC2 community. Seems like anyone who is defending Orb is just stuck inside their little bubble that expects SC2 to forever be a small hub on the online world. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:44 DrN0 wrote: Please, The UK is the most progressive nation out there when it comes to homosexuality and we are a part of western europe. I think he was saying that Western Europe is more progressive. He was saying that the USA forgives open homophobia. | ||
semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318860 Please re-redirect discussion not related to orb's casting back to that thread. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:44 DrN0 wrote: Please, The UK is the most progressive nation out there when it comes to homosexuality and we are a part of western europe. Read what I said again. I said it's more ok to openly hate on gays in the US than in the UK for example. edit: feel free to answer in the other thread on in PM/ | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
I don't care what you say on your private stream, just don't use any offensive language on casts. | ||
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:43 hypercube wrote: There's nothing innocent or understandable about calling someone a faggot or using gay as an insult. I understand that 'nigger' is completely off limits, even to the point where I would refer to it as 'the N word' in public in the US. Jesus Christ... how many people are going to misread and misunderstand my posts in this thread. I said a hell of a lot more understandable and innocent. I have repeatedly said that it's disgusting and unacceptable to call someone a 'faggot'. I was merely pointing out that there is a distinction in severity between calling someone a 'faggot' and calling someone a 'nigger'. On March 09 2012 06:42 DrN0 wrote: Read again I edited, and as I have said oh so many times now you will not truly understand the word until you have been on the receiving end so us trying to speak as if we have authority on the matter and saying it is 'no big deal' is perpuating the problem. Where did I say it was no big deal? It's as if you can't read. I've been arguing against people claiming that it's not that bad. | ||
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Slardar
Canada7593 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:26 Zorgaz wrote: How can this topic get so freaking big !? I don't get why these drama threads seem to take over all the forums, please can't you leave it to other sites like reddit? On topic I don't really see the big deal, I agree orb comes out as kind of a douche. But it's ladder, everyone has been frustrated on ladder. I enjoy his casting and will continue to do so.... I'll tell you exactly why. First and foremost, its because everyone has an influence here on the forums, or on Reddit. We have the ability to make our opinions heard and solve (or cause) problems. (E.G. if this happened to a popular sports commentator, I can at most call my friend and talk about it, or send an e-mail or post on some board, won't get nearly the same reaction/effectiveness as this) Secondly of course it's the internet, there is no backlash for complaining and being overly rude. People can be open with whatever they are feeling. This sort of bandwagons on influental sites, Reddit being a good example. | ||
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DrN0
United Kingdom184 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:46 Klondikebar wrote: I think he was saying that Western Europe is more progressive. He was saying that the USA forgives open homophobia. Right. My bad feel like an idiot now ignore that, my apologies to all for that. | ||
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Dirtysocks
Czech Republic68 Posts
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Dirtysocks
Czech Republic68 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:49 Slardar wrote: I'll tell you exactly why. First and foremost, its because everyone has an influence here on the forums, or on Reddit. We have the ability to make our opinions heard and solve (or cause) problems. (E.G. if this happened to a popular sports commentator, I can at most call my friend and talk about it, or send an e-mail or post on some board, won't get nearly the same reaction/effectiveness as this) Secondly of course it's the internet, there is no backlash for complaining and being overly rude. People can be open with whatever they are feeling. This sort of bandwagons on influental sites, Reddit being a good example. I'll tell you that you can use TL but you are in wrong thread. This is about his casting not streaming personal games. You feel like you need to talk about this on TL, fine there is at least 10 thread about it. People that do now know where to post should be warned and then banned.... | ||
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guN-viCe
United States687 Posts
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DrN0
United Kingdom184 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:49 Silvertine wrote: Jesus Christ... how many people are going to misread and misunderstand my posts in this thread. I said a hell of a lot more understandable and innocent. I have repeatedly said that it's disgusting and unacceptable to call someone a 'faggot'. I was merely pointing out that there is a distinction in severity between calling someone a 'faggot' and calling someone a 'nigger'. Where did I say it was no big deal? It's as if you can't read. I've been arguing against people claiming that it's not that bad. I have nothing against you except you said, 'I await your silly response' so I assumed you were not looking at my points in the lateral sense, and in general I was saying that we really can't speak on the issue with any real gravitas, also AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE WORD IS BAD BUT YOU WILL NEVER TRULY UNDERSTAND IT AS AN INSULT, I dont know why you have such a bone to pick with me and what I have to say, I agree the word should not be said but I also am saying that we can't speak as if we have actual knowlegde of what it is like to be on the end of this abuse. | ||
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Riquiz
Netherlands402 Posts
You give a lot of great information which is really enjoyable to hear while watching. It does indeed lack a bit of colour, like you might not always hype the game up enough for people who do not have enough experience actually playing sc2. But overall, great casting. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:25 pepsimaxibon wrote: + Show Spoiler + from the other thread, which got locked: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This has been buried in Orb's Stream thread so I'm gonna recap here as objectively as possible: Original post on Reddit: link to comments To which Orb originally responds with: Wouldn't be the first or last time someone impersonates me on ladder. Just woke up to see this image on reddit. Gotta love people that see a screenshot with no background/proof/context/anything and just start a witchhunt. Wouldn't be the first or last time for r/starcraft after some scrutiny from Reddit in which they prove it was his account, he edits in: Edit: yep just keep jumping to conclusions that it was me just because it was on my account. I share my account with 3 other people and anyone that knows me at all knows I only play on my "orb" account when I stream. I play on a smurf at all other times. Doesn't matter though, reddit witchhunts never listen to logic. Reddit proceeds to put more heat on, assessing that whoever played on that account had a suspisciously similar playstyle to Orb, played at a Masters level despite not owning their own account, and had his exact hotkey setup. He was also seen to be watching the replay on stream. Orb reacts to this scrutinty with extreme defensiveness, routinely deploying the word "slander" and accusing anyone who disputed his claims of "fabricating infomation". Of all fucking people totalbiscuit, I didn't expect you to.join witchhunts slandering people. For the record, I only ever said the n word once on my stream, and I got defeatured for it on TL (despite featured streamer destiny saying the n word daily on his stream). Since then I have not used the word once on stream.. But please john bain, keep slandering me baselessly. You seem unbelievably determined to slander me. You link to an empty video and pretend it's proof, and then everyone jumps to conclusions and assumes I deleted it. Notice not a single person is going so far in their lies as to say they saw me do it live... not only was it not me but i habent even streamed sc2 since most evil genius. Keep up the baseless slander guys. At about this point, LiveOnThree was airing, SirScoots felt the need to urgently address the situation due to it boiling over on Reddit (even reaching the front page). SirScoots stated: "Jake has said this was not him last night, that he went to bed, that he has a couple of friends who he shared his account with - which obviously he's not supposed to do - and that he woke up to this shit storm. Now, you all can choose to believe Jake or not. We at EG are all going to believe him, but have told him that if we find out that this is not the case, your story does not flush, and this is your behaviour and you continue to act this way, then you will be very, very quickly removed from our world." Soon after, a second Reddit thread turned up. With accusations of multiple counts of almost identical language: comments This time, there was evidence enough to incontrovertibly prove it was him.. Despite his attempt to remove the VOD which proved a smoking gun. Some hours into the thread, Orb issued this apology, purely regarding the second incident that he was caught red handed for. At no point does he make a reference to the original incident or apologise for all those who he accused of "slander". Alex Garfield Issued a pre-emptive statement: hey, everyone. alex (ceo of evil geniuses) here. i'll be making a formal statement about this situation later today. i just wanted to assure everyone that we're aware of these allegations, and that we're taking them very, very seriously. there will be ramifications here. their severity is something we're still determining, but there's no doubt that the situation requires action on our part. please try to be patient as we discuss the matter internally. Shortly after which, a third Reddit thread landed which proved his use of racial slurs on stream: I'll leave you to make your own judgements. thank you for this summary. | ||
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Korste
United States64 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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DeekZ
Australia235 Posts
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Cokefreak
Finland8095 Posts
On March 09 2012 07:12 DeekZ wrote: Did EG remove the video of orb coming to the EG house? Rofl. If I was EG I'd be pretty mad at orb right now ._. | ||
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Shafanhow
United States47 Posts
On March 09 2012 06:28 Trsjnica wrote: This is a pretty big deal, imo. Whether or not it reflects some underlying belief of Orb (and I hope it doesn't), this is a big deal to sponsors. Look how many sponsors have left Rush Limbaugh or Tiger Woods or many others when controversy breaks out. Obviously nothing in eSports will ever be on that big of a scale, but sponsors absolutely care about and try to avoid controversy like this. They have nothing to gain and plenty to lose. Agreed. Business is business. If you want to have a job in the puplic eye even the appearance of racism can be disaster. That's what Orb is finding out. In 1988 Jimmy the Greek made some foolish racist comments and never worked again. Maintaining an image that will stand up to public scrutiny takes more emotional stability than Orb has. A white guy slinging the n-word around is playing with fire under any circumstances, even more so when he is using it as an insult. User was warned for this post | ||
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ZuRbii
United States58 Posts
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AxelTVx
Canada916 Posts
On March 09 2012 07:12 DeekZ wrote: Did EG remove the video of orb coming to the EG house? Rofl. lol I guess this pretty much confirms it. Orb is most likely out. | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
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Utinni
Canada1196 Posts
These are not professional actions. (This is frowned upon in the professional world and UHMM ANYWHERE ELSE) I know it's the internet but themz the breakz. (feedback for the thread) EDIT: He may have not done it while casting but he did it in public. If anyone of importance actually said this in public, in any forum, there would be backlash. User was warned for this post | ||
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FidoDido
United States1292 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Dirtysocks
Czech Republic68 Posts
On March 09 2012 07:36 FidoDido wrote: Hey Orb, we understand that all of us are human, but not all of us will slander an entire race on stream or while representing a team on ladder. What team?? ESV? | ||
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nappeee
Finland169 Posts
EG? | ||
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Dirtysocks
Czech Republic68 Posts
As far as know all the screen shots are before he moved to eg. He has no EG overlay as far as I know. SO the stream chat people are talking about happened during his casting for ESV | ||
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AngelusDeLetum
United States98 Posts
On March 09 2012 05:45 Silvertine wrote: And once again someone acts as if there's no distinction between the word 'faggot' and 'nigger'. There is a difference, and it's massive. Although the word 'faggot' is homophobic it was thrown around for many years without any thought, especially by young people. It was used interchangeably with other mindless insults, such as 'gay'. That doesn't justify people using it but it makes it a hell of a lot more understandable and innocent than using 'nigger'. Anyone who lives in America should know that the latter is considered far, far more offensive. Dude have you ever been down south? people use the N word like nothing, plus it was used with out any thought many years ago too. Are you serious? It is all about who it is presented to. A gay person may be more offended by fag than an african american by the N word [b]User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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dangerjoe
Denmark1866 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 09 2012 08:01 dangerjoe wrote: Eh admins.. Just wanted to let you know the link at the top of this thread redirects to the 'Translation of Slayers Jessica's tweets' thread.. afaik that is not the correct thread to redirect to lol. omg. it links to a post that says "jessica just wants his dick." lolol. best fail ever. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318389¤tpage=25#483 | ||
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(Mist)
Canada72 Posts
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Falling
Canada11355 Posts
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OnFiRe888
United States629 Posts
I'm a big fan of your casting and all of your work. Honestly, I used to think you were the perfect caster and was really entertaining. As I do still think you are an amazing caster, there are some things that I think you could improve on. A. Taeja, look, it is a well known fact that you love taeja. However, after watching the esv finals, it seems like your casting tends to be a lot biased towards him. I felt that as the series was getting closer to the end, it started to bother me more and more. It just seems that you tend to emphasize how well taeja is doing too much (even though the esv grand prix finals #2 were not a very good example, *spoilers* squirtle got wrecked). I will admit right now, as a very big squirtle fan, it hurt having to listen to you circlejerk about taeja the entire time (in the end, i could not tell if i was on sc reddit after a mlg event or watching the esv grand prix). I think you should try to be a little bit more neutral in your casts. Here's something you might want to take into consideration, what if you were casting to an audience of squirtle fans the entire time? I feel that many people would be offended. I'm not sure if I'm he only person with this gripe, or if I am just crazy, but it would be nice if you were a bit more neutral. B. Screaming. This tends to be an issue with a lot of casters. I'll be honest, I hate it when you scream, again it's not only you, but you are an offender. Some moments in the game tend to be very exciting, (ie great emps by taeja, etc) but I think that 100% of the time, casters should not scream. I understand that casters should sometimes change the inflection of their voice to show emotion (look at day9), but screaming is pretty much never good. I mean, showing emotion is good, but not when you are screaming and people cannot quite understand what you are saying. I hate to bring a bad example, but you will often see Wolf and khaldor scream during code a casts. (No offense to them) That is similar to the way you are doing it and I think it's an area of weakness. Sorry, I'm not sure how to put this in a less ambiguous way. I guess to sum it up, check up on how awkward it makes the audience feel when wolf and khaldor cast, and compare that to how day9 is able to show his emotion through a cast without screaming. Just some food for thought that I think you might want to take into consideration. Again, I mean nothing in malicious intent or anything, (I mean, I still love your casting), I just wanted to put down some things that bug me. GL HF, hope to see you at more events this coming fall. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
Still, you're one of the few casters I don't have to mute, so keep up the good work. | ||
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