On December 01 2011 09:22 PeterUstinox wrote: TaKe (http://www.taketv.net) is a great, but only German caster. He invested more money in Esports than any other caster i know. (His flat is the place where HSC takes place) ... haha,TaKe's Place . He organizes his own BarCraft (HomeCraft, as it is called) and he also provides his own ladder with prizes for people, who play a lot 1v1 SC ladder (http://www.taketv.net/ladder). Furthermore he always encourages people to do something sor esports (just like incontrol often does) His (featured on TL) stream has around 1-3k viewer. But I really can't explain to myself that this is enough to pay everything. His move was extremely risky. It's a sign for his passion for StarCraft and esports. He's contracted by the ESL and casts various shows within Germany, but the famous names of ESL.TV are still MrBItter and Rotterdam, because they act internationally. He is a real inspiration for me (The little North German league, that i contributed to SC). Take it from here, TaKe! (He is former WC3 Pro, WC3 Caster)
To get to the point: If TaKe is able to do so much with so little, why is Day9 still sitting in his little room and doing the dailies with his unprofessional equipment?
it can't be a lack of supporters. I hope he will build up something great, just like TaKe.
EDIT: I just thought that it would fit in the thread, because lots of you liked the creative HSC with its intimate atmosphere...
Day9's daily has already contributed more to the sc2 community than Take has ever done. HSC is overrated. It's good for a one off tournament, but any more than that is overkill. It's basically just guys drinking and playing sc2 at a person's apartment and had a very unpforessional feel to it, which was the point of it. It felt like a lan party someone just threw, which is fine for a one off event, but shouldn't be hyped up beyond what it is because it's essentially a glorified lan in someone's basement. I personally didn't find watching gamers drinking on couches appealing and they should save it for the after party.
You don't get it. It's just that day9 is not taking all out of his potential. He's investing literally no money into starcraft2 so far and that's not a good move. He is essential for the scene for his casting and spent time, but he could stop tomorrow by quitting his stream and there would be nothing left. Unfortunately TaKe can't quit tomorrow his flat is not for living, it's for gaming (18 monitors, 18 notebooks) example vid: it's no lan, it's still an event for progamers. you little canadian just don't know, that hsc is the first international appearance of TaKe. TaKe is in Germany far more important than day (he is a German caster only, remember?) this is why you're comparison lacks.
I don't know how reality looks like but my guess is that most viewers are actually more or less playing starcraft 2. And since Starcraft2 is a completly different "sportgenre" than something like soccer, racing etc. players have a complete different mindset. If you play soccer you know that most actions and decissions you make are following rules of experience and more over reaction to the situation. While in starcraft2 you can think far more ahead (because it's more controlled by gamemechanics / timings / same processes) and control far more in less time.
If I take these two thoughts together i think 1st the viewerbase is less unknown to the things that are happening and have second experienced far more likely situations of what they see in the stream.
I for example was always excited when I saw orb casting games PV* and watched him losing a very similiar match before on his own stream. And i am getting even more excited when I myself lost or won games in some similiar ways before and now watch how some known players fight it out in a better way. While orb could completly express that something "interessting" is going on and explain where the critical points are and you feel that's something that a player "feels" another hype caster would just describe what is going on and that both players playing great - whow.
I claim that the starcraft2 audience is not a game-fan-based audience but a player audience and with that play by play casters are or at last will be less entertaining. Maybe this whole "esport" thing will grow and more outsiders will become fans of the game without playing it - I guess then the tables will switch but till then ppl who can express playerfeelings are the most wanted casters.
And so I can only be against slasher on this and hope that casters showing more of their own games. It will do good, seeing how they do with the match they may have to cast some hours or days later. It will change their way of casting and it will be more entertaining than praising micro / macro or anything else.
Sorry 4 bad lang but I hope for my own entertainment that starcraft2 will be a game mostly players are watching and so i had to state my thoughts :p
On December 01 2011 06:55 Dubsy wrote: Casters get paid more because there are fewer great casters than great players. Pretty simple really.
Sorry but that's not how it works.
Do you think there are more great soccer/football players than there are casters? Yes. And the players still make much more.
I am pretty sure there are more doctors in this world then there are sc2 casters. Doctors makes more (i would think anyway lol).
Point being, there are more factors. I don't think the fact that there are more "great" casters than there are great players has much to do with it.
Haha I love how the poster below you objectively proved you wrong. The difference a soccer announcer is replaceable (except maybe the guy who says "goooooaaaaaaalllllll"), soccer players are much less so. The 20th best announcer duo would do fine commentating arsenal vs Manchester United (soccer is gay, are these good teams?). It would still be widely watched and the amount of people who don't watch because of the commentator would be trivial. The absolute best soccer commentator in the world commentating me and 21 buddies kicking it around would not sell.
Casters are more of a draw than players at the moment. Back to my analogy, make a list of the 20 best Sc players and 20 best Sc casters. Would you rather watch 19 play 20 and have it casted by 1 + 2, or have player 1 play player 2 and have it castes by 19 and 20. I think most people would rather watch tasteless and artists cast something like Leenock vs Naniwa (roughly) than some mouth breather cast Nestea vs MC (arbitrary, fill in whoever you want). If you'd rather the latter, you're already a hardcore fan which is all well and good but you aren't who the people making business decision are targeting. You're gonna watch regardless. They are targeting the guy who would watch day9 cast AHGL. That's the average Joe, that's not a diehard SC fanatic who is gonna watch to see how Huk alters his ffe to get a slightly faster +1. The hardcore fan might prefer an analytical caster who will note how huk shaves 8 seconds off that upgrade, the unwashed masses, the people with the ability to make eSports explode would much prefer day9 tell a funny anecdote instead, while still hitting 95% of the game content.
There is two ways players get more money. They take a larger slice of the current pie, or eSports as a whole becomes a more valuable industry and they get the same slice of a bigger pie. Frankly the casters are the link between casual people and competitive SC, the players really aren't. Ask yourself seriously, what would be a bigger financial hit for the future of eSports: Day9 stops doing the daily and quits casting altogether, or the best SC2 player on the planet quits playing starcraft
I don't know who the poster below me you are talking about, but if it's the guy who quoted me he seemed to agree with me.
Anyway about your post. Your first post you said it was pure numbers. I said that that is not correct at all, that there are other factors. You just wrote two big paragraphs about some of those factors lol.
The question you should be asing yourself why is soccer announcers replacable but sc2 casters aren't? There lies the problem imo.There are still more players in any sport than there are casters, but the salary relation isn't the same.
Casters are more famous than the players, that is part of the problem discussed in this thread. In any other sport does anyone really make a decision what game they're gonna watch depending on who is casting, or depending on who is playing?
The post below you I refer to is the gentleman who says he enjoys watching a bunch of no-names play in the AHGL because day9 is casting it.
I'm not even sure what you're talking about when you say numbers. The number of great casters vs the number of great players is what I'm assuming because that's all my first post mentioned. My second post was just to try to help understand why the "numbers" are the way they are.
You say yourself "casters are more famous than the players," which at this time quite obviously seems to be the case. At least in terms of the elite casters. You can have a successful tournament without having 2-3 of the best players; it's harder to have a tournament without 2-3 of the best casters.
You're pissed off because you think this is inherently a problem. If I had it my way, yeah, the players would get more money than they do and more money than the casters. But as it stands the casters get more because they generate more money. It's how society works bro. Would it be cool if the guy who works 70 hour weeks cleaning the shitters at a law firm makes the same living as the partners? Sure, I think we all have a little socialist revolution somewhere deep down inside us, but it's a capitalist world. You're paid for the value you bring and the real tip top casters (Day, Artosis, Tasteless, etc) are more valuable than the players.
I'm not gonna speculate too hard but part of it is because SC2 is such an impersonal game. You have so much more interaction with the casters than the players (while the game is going on, players are really accessible outside the game to their credit). I would guess that the focus, and in turn the money, shifts toward the players if eSports blows up, but I still don't think it would ever reach the level of disparity you see in an NBA or NFL superstar and the crew calling the game. Just a different animal.
About numbers, the quote is right there, in the beginning: "Casters get paid more because there are fewer great casters than great players. Pretty simple really. "
That's what i have a problem with. That quote says that the ratio of great casters vs great players is small, and that's why they have higher salary. What im saying is that it has nothing to do with the ratio of NUMBER of players vs NUMBER of casters. I would say that in proffessional sports that ratio is about the same. A channel/network is gonna show a lot of players but only have a few casters in total. Yet the casters are never stars, and def never "superstars", wich is the case in sc2. And they don't make more money.
Therefore i say there are other factors. In your second post you pointed out one of those factors (imo), that the casters are more famous. I know this, and as i've said i think that is part of the problem and the overlaying discussion. Casters get more praise, more fame and more money than alot of the players. I even posted the same reason as you why part of that is.
Also i have a problem with your use of "great". Is Husky really a great caster? He is pretty good imo, but not great since he can't give deep insights into the game. Imo you have to have the full package to be considered great. He still draws alot of viewers though. Hence I don't think it has to do with the ratio of "great casters vs great players". i'd argue it takes more to be a great player than a great caster.
An important thing in this is that just as in sports there isn't any room for as many casters as there are players. That's one of the reasons there are fewer casters than players, not that it's so hard to be good at casting or that they are "hot commodity".
It has nothing to do with someone cleaning toilets wtf. Being a player is a high education job (i hope u understand what i mean), that's the hole in your analogy. The relationship is the exact same as it is for caster vs pro sports player. Im willing to predict that no caster spends 8 hours a day practicing casting. If the toilet cleaner would make more than the lawyers because "there are fewer great toilet cleaners than great lawyers at the firm" then we can talk (you don't need as many toilet cleaners as lawyers). But it's the opposite in in sc2 right now.
Tournaments needs to start pushing the players personalities more. Though that is not the underlying problem imo. If Nadal and Federer is playing no one gives a shit about who is casting. They might complain but they are never gonna change the channel. If people just wanna hear a familiar and entertaining "personality" what am i gonna do? Though i'd bet that casters wouldn't start turning down casting jobs if they got paid a little less.
A channel/network is gonna show a lot of players but only have a few casters in total. Yet the casters are never stars, and def never "superstars", wich is the case in sc2. And they don't make more money.
That is just not true. Casters in general get paid more than most players. Most professional sports players don't get million dollar salaries.
Do you think that Antwan Barnes gets a lot of money? He's one of my favorite defensive players right now for the Chargers (American football team). Most people don't know who he is or care. I bet he makes less money than most professionals who are not involved in sports. Most professional athletes end up working at Home Depot; tons of Olympic athletes do.
Is Husky really a great caster?
I think he's great. I prefer his casting to anyone else that I've heard, and I've heard Day 9 and Artosis and all the rest. I prefer Husky's style, and think it is more in line with professional casting. The others are very good, but I prefer him. Other people don't prefer him. It's all relative with a word like "great" as opposed to just "good".
The fact is; most players will not bring in big money, and therefore will not make big money. This cannot be changed by anyone who is mortal.
On December 01 2011 08:19 skyrunner wrote: Well fair enough, though I think you're an extreme case. Yeah there are casters i can get really irritated at when watching sports, so casters matter, to some degree. But i would never let the casters influence my decision of what game im gonna be watching. And I would guess that's the way it is for most people.
There are some analysts and casters in sports that I really enjoy listening to and respect alot. However I don't think their job is harder than the players or that they work harder to get better at what they do. To have higher salary than the players are just ludicrous imho, and i totally understand the players if they think it's bs.
I very well may be an extreme case. I'll watch MNF, or endure one of the awful Sunday crews if I have to but ONLY if the Vikings are playing and I won't be happy about it. If it bugs me too much I'll run errands and listen on the car radio where I know what I'm getting is far superior than the given trash on TV.
Working harder than players I think depends on the player and the tourney in question. Something like MLG seems like it'd be a bitch of a marathon for casters and players alike to get through the whole weekend. Some of the tourneys that are more diced up the casters still have to do all the games while the players might not be playing as much on a given day.
As I said in the SOTG thread it's just a weird situation right now. Things are in their infancy but they're getting bigger. Which of course involves growing pains for any league. Right now casters might be a bigger draw for some people than (most) of the players. I know a friend that won't watch a tourney unless day[9] is casting it. Hell he won't even watch a game in a tourney unless he's the one casting that specific game.
So how does it all get fixed? I'm guessing through some sort of unionizing of players, the tourneys laying down their rules and structure in very bold black and white terms, owners/team management being a go between. From that point I think everything falls into place with caster pay vs player pay, shit talking between parties during an event, etc.
If everyone plays their cards right players become more prevalent to more people and get paid for their talent level. Casters aren't (potentially) scratching by. Rules are clear, concise and followed and the whole thing gets bigger (without over saturating the market plz. That is 100000000000000000000000000 times worse than under saturating). If things turn into a pissing match and one group thinks they're more important than the other things can fall apart in a hurry. It is possible among sensible human beings to sort things out fairly for all involved.
But yes, my overall point before is the best game in the world can become entirely unwatchable solely based on the presenters. If MLG got rid of Artosis, Day[9], Tasteless, Wheat, etc and replaced it with my mom or your uncle or some hobo from under a bridge literally no one would watch it, even if Jesus was playing against Idra with Satan sitting on his shoulder for the fate of the universe.
Im gonna respond to the bold parts because it's alot right now
I think your aversion to watching sports with horrible casters is a pet peeve of yours and not indicative of the rest of the world. In sc2 however casters are very important, as the example with your friend shows.
Yes casting marathons can be grueling, im sure. But I don't think caster practice as much to improve their game compared to players. Being a player is cut throat tbh. If you made your name as a caster and is a familiar "personality" you're pretty much set.
I don't think anyone would want to listen to two people that can't speak very well or know the game. However i would still watch the MLG finals no matter who was casting (on mute in worst case). I would never watch to gold players duking it out. Well maybe, but only as humour lol, but thats another form of entertainment.
Yeah its probably because sc2 is rather young. I don't think we will ever see any unions, it's just... messy. I think the problem lies in the way sc2 as media is presented to the viewer. There should be more of a player focus imo. I think if it was the situation would be different today.
A channel/network is gonna show a lot of players but only have a few casters in total. Yet the casters are never stars, and def never "superstars", wich is the case in sc2. And they don't make more money.
That is just not true. Casters in general get paid more than most players. Most professional sports players don't get million dollar salaries.
Do you think that Antwan Barnes gets a lot of money? He's one of my favorite defensive players right now for the Chargers (American football team). Most people don't know who he is or care. I bet he makes less money than most professionals who are not involved in sports. Most professional athletes end up working at Home Depot; tons of Olympic athletes do.
I think he's great. I prefer his casting to anyone else that I've heard, and I've heard Day 9 and Artosis and all the rest. I prefer Husky's style, and think it is more in line with professional casting. The others are very good, but I prefer him. Other people don't prefer him. It's all relative with a word like "great" as opposed to just "good".
The fact is; most players will not bring in big money, and therefore will not make big money. This cannot be changed by anyone who is mortal.
I have a really hard time accepting that, in general, casters earn more than players in the proffessional sports world. There is no way that that is the case in Europe anyway. In soccer no caster makes more than the players in any top league. I can't imagine it being so in the NBA either. I'd say there are exceptions, but not in general. I guess there is no use in discussing this without statistics lol.
And yeah "great" is subjective. What im saying is that, objectively, husky isn'y great because he doesn't give deep insights to strategy, wich is kinda important. Im sure alot of people enjoy him more, but that's subjective. And that's the problem imo.
On December 01 2011 07:42 Milkis wrote: Pretty sure BoxeR hasn't gotten any appearance fees for MLG. Pretty sure about that for NASL 1 too. Dunno about IPL but I somehow doubt it.
Pretty sure my translations haven't gotten any info about MLG. Pretty sure about that for BW. Dunno about SC2 but I somehow doubt it.
PS I quit these forums and this entire sport because.. well..
Joking aside are you actually stating any facts or are you just trying to stir up trash with your usual passive-aggressive posting?
I have a really hard time accepting that, in general, casters earn more than players in the proffessional sports world.
It depends on your standards. If you take the non-celebrity casters and non-celebrity players; factor in the fact that casters last much longer at their job than professional athletes do, they will end up making more money. Put celebrity casters in and you see that only the top of the top superstar athletes make more money than them, and sometimes not even as much. John Madden has more money than almost any football player right now. He walked away from a $15 million contract extension. The statistics say that professional athlete is not a job that will provide lifelong security for most professional athletes. Professional caster is more of a job that can provide lifetime security.
I could just as easily say that Day9 and Artosis are not objectively great because they don't have enough personality or are as interesting as Husky. Or that only Tasteless and Husky have good "caster voices". It's still opinion; and it may not be true for everyone. There is no problem with people preferring something that you don't, just like there is no problem with people not preferring something you do.
Do you think Day 9, or Tassadar (to take a random Code A guy for example), brings more attention and therefore money to a tournament? And why exactly is that wrong?
If there is a problem between casters and players, it is created by the viewers. The great divide in how they are treated is because tournament organizers realize what generates viewers: casters.
Casters are celebrities in our community. We will watch day[9] cast an event regardless of whose playing. He could be casting bronze scrubs and get 10k viewers. On the other hand, a relatively unknown caster could be casting two Code S level Korean players and only have a few hundred viewers.
The inequality is entirely created by the community that believes the quality of an event is based on whose casting as oppose to the players participating.
It's time to realize guys, the blame is on us. We need to expand our horizons and choose what events we watch based on it's merits, not on its commentators. Until we start doing this, celebrity casters that generate viewers will always be a priority for event organizers.
I have a really hard time accepting that, in general, casters earn more than players in the proffessional sports world.
It depends on your standards. If you take the non-celebrity casters and non-celebrity players; factor in the fact that casters last much longer at their job than professional athletes do, they will end up making more money. Put celebrity casters in and you see that only the top of the top superstar athletes make more money than them, and sometimes not even as much. John Madden has more money than almost any football player right now. He walked away from a $15 million contract extension. The statistics say that professional athlete is not a job that will provide lifelong security for most professional athletes. Professional caster is more of a job that can provide lifetime security.
I could just as easily say that Day9 and Artosis are not objectively great because they don't have enough personality or are as interesting as Husky. Or that only Tasteless and Husky have good "caster voices". It's still opinion; and it may not be true for everyone. There is no problem with people preferring something that you don't, just like there is no problem with people not preferring something you do.
Do you think Day 9, or Tassadar (to take a random Code A guy for example), brings more attention and therefore money to a tournament? And why exactly is that wrong?
I think it's time for me to let go of this thread lol i don't wanna beat a dead horse.
Im talking about salary, not total earnings. The fact that proffessional players earn money under a shorter time is actually an argument for them having higher salary.
I'd say overall players in proffessional sports make more than casters (again). But there are exceptions. John Madden is a god damned video game franchise, he is an exception. Im sure mcenroe makes money as well as other "celebrity" casters. The thing is they're famous because they were players. The got famous when they played, and happend to translate well into media. See? They are star casters because they made their names as players, we're talking about a sport that puts it's focus on the players. Ordinary caster is never gonna get the attention that someone that shit out YT videos will in the sc2 community.
I think it's detrimental to the game when the focus is not on who is playing but who is casting. If we truly want this to be an ESPORT we need to focus on the game and the players, not casters. It's not a "sport" or a legit competition if the attention is to caster casting gold players rather than the best in the world doing there best to WIN. What the hell is the incentive to be a top player when you have to work harder than the casters, and the casters get the fame, money and praise? That is not healthy.
An events focus should not be paying players to play. Rather paying for casters IS more important. Offering 100k prize pool where the winner takes half, and you have 50 people who could all possibly win it doesn't make sense. And then another 100 people who could place top 8 or top 16. The numbers don't add up plain and simple. Casters are making some good money right now, cause they are in HIGH demand by MANY tournaments. (Well the great casters )
Teams should have sponsors which in turn then pays for the salary of the players. Thing is Sponsors are not going to get the recoginiztion the need from individual league tournaments. There needs to be a Team league, just like football, baseball, hockey, etc... This in turn will help drive players salaries up, and give them a better living.
The problem is that you are talking about shoulds and should-nots rather than is and is nots. Should the professional athlete make more money? I don't know. You could say yes, and give me a whole bunch of reasons, another guy could say no and give me plenty of reasons. Is the average professional athlete going to make more money than the average professional caster? Probably not. Average salary for most top-league professional athletes is about $100,000/yr. Average salary for a professional sports caster is about $85,000/yr.
You say John Madden is an exception? OK. What about Gruden? Mike Tirico? Jaws? Chris Collinsworth? You say they got famous while playing the game? Well... a lot of guys were famous while playing the game... they aren't making that much money anymore. Only a select few went on to make money as casters, and not because they were famous players, but because they were excellent casters.
I don't see how the fans of this sport put any more emphasis on casters than the fans of most sports do. Most fans have one or two players that they like, one or two coaches, one or two teams; but they all know the casters. It's the same casters day in and day out. They have much more interaction with the casters. A good caster can turn a boring game into a fun game, a bad caster can turn an epic game into a snoozeville.
Do you really think Day 9 would keep getting attention from the community if he stopped casting anything but Bronze league players? People watch Day 9 because they know they can usually find him casting good games. If he didn't cast good games then he wouldn't be the number 1. Simple as that. Seems like everyone is complaining about a problem that just doesn't exist, and yearning toward an ideal that they perceive in other sports that just isn't there. For every superstar who gets paid big bucks as an athlete, there are a hundred unknowns who get paid decent, but peanuts comparatively. For every one of those guys there are a hundred practice squad or B-squad guys who barely make peanuts. For every one of those guys there are a thousand wanabees who really don't make anything at all. It's the nature of the world. I doubt MVP is hurting for cash. If he keeps winning, he will never be hurting for cash. If he can't win, he won't get any more money. It's sad, but it's just the way it is.
Isn't the main problem is that starcraft is a single player game, unlike basket or any other team game ? I mean, no matter what, there are only 1-4 winners in a tournament, while there is always like 30 serious contender in each MLG. So of course players are not going to get as money as casters.
If MLG could develop some kind of team league, where teams get, as soon as they are qualified and no matter what their position within the league, a good enough financement for them to sustain their roster and give good salaries to everyone ?
I wish people would stop talking about Day9's 'free' dailies as though their creation is some incredibly altruistic act done only to benefit the gaming community. Don't be such suckers. He gets ad revenues, sells merchandise, sells subscriptions, solicits donations... the 'dailies' product being given away for free is simply the best business model available. It's like saying Riot Games makes LoL only for the love of gamers and not to make money because it's 'free'. That's fucking retarded. He's making big bank off of his work and that's why he'll continue to do it. Good for him, it's a great business model and he attacked the market ferociously at the game's launch. He deserves it. If he tried to charge for the actual dailies people would fuck right off and not watch. That's how video content on the Internet is consumed and monetized.
As for why casters get paid more, I answered that a few pages back and it went ignored. I guess I don't have enough posts to have what I type read. As someone who has worked in the entertainment business for nearly two decades, this thread is like listening to a bunch of kids learning about money for the first time.
A channel/network is gonna show a lot of players but only have a few casters in total. Yet the casters are never stars, and def never "superstars", wich is the case in sc2. And they don't make more money.
That is just not true. Casters in general get paid more than most players. Most professional sports players don't get million dollar salaries.
Do you think that Antwan Barnes gets a lot of money? He's one of my favorite defensive players right now for the Chargers (American football team). Most people don't know who he is or care. I bet he makes less money than most professionals who are not involved in sports. Most professional athletes end up working at Home Depot; tons of Olympic athletes do.
NFL minimum salary alone isn't that much behind what commentators make (for their commentating that is, most of them have other media jobs too). And even ignoring the fact that a lot of players make far more than the minimum, NFL commentators aren't "stars."
People don't specifically watch football games to hear the commentary like SC2 viewers do for casters. I've never heard of anyone losing their shit over Al Michaels, and he's about as famous as sportscasters get. Meanwhile, Day9, Artosis, Tasteless, Djwheat, HD, Husky, Totalbiscuit, etc. are all bigger deals than half the players who make the top 8 in every tournament.
Of course all of that was about the NFL, which isn't even an individual sport like SC is. For an even more clear comparison, look at tennis or golf. Half the time, no one even has a clue who's commentating.
It's really weird how SC2 is so different from any sport in this regard. IMO it's actually quite sad.
A tournament can help a player by advertising their skill to a much larger audience. It is much more difficult to advertise yourself without tournament participation. I would agree that the tournaments should broaden the winnings over more players with a larger pool so that they can continue bringing quality games and entertainment.
On December 01 2011 09:22 PeterUstinox wrote: TaKe (http://www.taketv.net) is a great, but only German caster. He invested more money in Esports than any other caster i know. (His flat is the place where HSC takes place) ... haha,TaKe's Place . He organizes his own BarCraft (HomeCraft, as it is called) and he also provides his own ladder with prizes for people, who play a lot 1v1 SC ladder (http://www.taketv.net/ladder). Furthermore he always encourages people to do something sor esports (just like incontrol often does) His (featured on TL) stream has around 1-3k viewer. But I really can't explain to myself that this is enough to pay everything. His move was extremely risky. It's a sign for his passion for StarCraft and esports. He's contracted by the ESL and casts various shows within Germany, but the famous names of ESL.TV are still MrBItter and Rotterdam, because they act internationally. He is a real inspiration for me (The little North German league, that i contributed to SC). Take it from here, TaKe! (He is former WC3 Pro, WC3 Caster)
To get to the point: If TaKe is able to do so much with so little, why is Day9 still sitting in his little room and doing the dailies with his unprofessional equipment?
it can't be a lack of supporters. I hope he will build up something great, just like TaKe.
EDIT: I just thought that it would fit in the thread, because lots of you liked the creative HSC with its intimate atmosphere...
Day9's daily has already contributed more to the sc2 community than Take has ever done. HSC is overrated. It's good for a one off tournament, but any more than that is overkill. It's basically just guys drinking and playing sc2 at a person's apartment and had a very unpforessional feel to it, which was the point of it. It felt like a lan party someone just threw, which is fine for a one off event, but shouldn't be hyped up beyond what it is because it's essentially a glorified lan in someone's basement. I personally didn't find watching gamers drinking on couches appealing and they should save it for the after party.
You don't get it. It's just that day9 is not taking all out of his potential. He's investing literally no money into starcraft2 so far and that's not a good move. He is essential for the scene for his casting and spent time, but he could stop tomorrow by quitting his stream and there would be nothing left. Unfortunately TaKe can't quit tomorrow his flat is not for living, it's for gaming (18 monitors, 18 notebooks) example vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kBEsU6bteyM#! it's no lan, it's still an event for progamers. you little canadian just don't know, that hsc is the first international appearance of TaKe. TaKe is in Germany far more important than day (he is a German caster only, remember?) this is why you're comparison lacks.
No, you don't understand that day9 is under no obligation to invest his own money into the scene, nor should he be expected to. The money he earns is his own income and he can choose what to do with it. It's like telling someone to donate to charity. Some people do and some people don't. You shouldn't judge or expect everyone to donate to a charity just because someone else does. Plus I believe day9 donated 5k of his own money to charity for the AGHL he ran.
Why should day9 be expected to invest money into the scene? That means tastosis and everyone else should be expected to as well. Take did and that's his own choice to do so, and you shouldn't judge day9 just because he doesn't run a tourney from his apartment.
Closest I could find was Al Michaels makes 2.9 mil a year circa 2006 which appears to be double the average NFL player salary at that time. Granted it's not quite apples to apples since you're talking the king of NFL commentary vs a league average. Just throwing the numbers I found out there.
On December 01 2011 09:22 PeterUstinox wrote: TaKe (http://www.taketv.net) is a great, but only German caster. He invested more money in Esports than any other caster i know. (His flat is the place where HSC takes place) ... haha,TaKe's Place . He organizes his own BarCraft (HomeCraft, as it is called) and he also provides his own ladder with prizes for people, who play a lot 1v1 SC ladder (http://www.taketv.net/ladder). Furthermore he always encourages people to do something sor esports (just like incontrol often does) His (featured on TL) stream has around 1-3k viewer. But I really can't explain to myself that this is enough to pay everything. His move was extremely risky. It's a sign for his passion for StarCraft and esports. He's contracted by the ESL and casts various shows within Germany, but the famous names of ESL.TV are still MrBItter and Rotterdam, because they act internationally. He is a real inspiration for me (The little North German league, that i contributed to SC). Take it from here, TaKe! (He is former WC3 Pro, WC3 Caster)
To get to the point: If TaKe is able to do so much with so little, why is Day9 still sitting in his little room and doing the dailies with his unprofessional equipment?
it can't be a lack of supporters. I hope he will build up something great, just like TaKe.
EDIT: I just thought that it would fit in the thread, because lots of you liked the creative HSC with its intimate atmosphere...
Day9's daily has already contributed more to the sc2 community than Take has ever done. HSC is overrated. It's good for a one off tournament, but any more than that is overkill. It's basically just guys drinking and playing sc2 at a person's apartment and had a very unpforessional feel to it, which was the point of it. It felt like a lan party someone just threw, which is fine for a one off event, but shouldn't be hyped up beyond what it is because it's essentially a glorified lan in someone's basement. I personally didn't find watching gamers drinking on couches appealing and they should save it for the after party.
A channel/network is gonna show a lot of players but only have a few casters in total. Yet the casters are never stars, and def never "superstars", wich is the case in sc2. And they don't make more money.
That is just not true. Casters in general get paid more than most players. Most professional sports players don't get million dollar salaries.
Do you think that Antwan Barnes gets a lot of money? He's one of my favorite defensive players right now for the Chargers (American football team). Most people don't know who he is or care. I bet he makes less money than most professionals who are not involved in sports. Most professional athletes end up working at Home Depot; tons of Olympic athletes do.
I think he's great. I prefer his casting to anyone else that I've heard, and I've heard Day 9 and Artosis and all the rest. I prefer Husky's style, and think it is more in line with professional casting. The others are very good, but I prefer him. Other people don't prefer him. It's all relative with a word like "great" as opposed to just "good".
The fact is; most players will not bring in big money, and therefore will not make big money. This cannot be changed by anyone who is mortal.
Are you kidding me? Anybody in the NFL, NBA, NHL, etc, make FAR more than people not involved in professional sports. From a quick search, I can see that Antwan Barnes makes 1.6 million a year. Yeah, a lot of people involved in olympic sports or in minor leagues or whatever don't make a whole lot. Neither do unpopular commentators.
EPT
. He organizes his own BarCraft (HomeCraft, as it is called) and he also provides his own ladder with prizes for people, who play a lot 1v1 SC ladder (
