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Keep the discussion civil, please. |
players are changing, and casters are changing--
it seems to me that the casters with the most consistent qualities are those who don't live-cast all that often.
i'm sure if you guys have heard ToD and rotterdam combo, or would hear more of them, you would be raving for even more of the friendly european duo. i can only assume though that they just enjoy striding life and playing the game---casting only when they feel up to it all.
to me, it's obvious that some casters have a style that is geared towards the long-term.
i can understand that everyone's passion for things dies down sometimes, but since this is their job, they need to make it work.
for some [streaming tournament] casts, i can make associations with them to those hidden music gems. they're historic or so memorable;you just feel pulled towards them and want to re-live it again.
i don't feel silly for saying that, but i do want to give consistent appreciation to all the hard work casters do daily.
players know what they're in for, and out of the many people involved with sc2 they have one of the most important roles in influencing what we see on screen. if that isn't enough then they should know that they have fans no matter their result.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 01 2011 06:41 GuiMontag wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:31 Belha wrote:On December 01 2011 04:25 iNcontroL wrote:
Did you know Day9 made around 20k dream hack weekend? How much do you think TB made? Pointing numbers about how much casters make is not good for anybody. Posting real comparisons isn't a problem, the problem here is that Geoff's making up numbers to support his teammates
Normally I just try and ignore idiot forum people who actually have no idea and try to post to defame or spread lies about a community figure but in this case I will make an exception.. I was not making up numbers they are speculated by the DH staff and discussed alongside numerous players who attended and discussed this.
Go away troll
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I hate to say it but I agree with Slasher on this...
He's right that it'll take a while for players to switch over to casting. And that as of so far casters are better casters than players are casters.
Mostly because casters are A)funny B)Charismatic C)stylish and good looking D)Cause they can make me laugh to terribly corny jokes.
Now don't get me wrong, I like players casting/analyzing. But its more of a change of pace sort of thing. The only players I could see doing casts that are amazing, are Idra and TLO.
Though I agree with HuK that players do have better analysis on certain aspects of the game, they can also be fairly ignorant to a lot of other stuff as well. Such as other matchups. For example, I wouldn't expect Idra to cast a PvT, because he always references, "oh i don't play this matchup so i don't know it that well."
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On December 01 2011 06:55 Dubsy wrote:
Casters get paid more because there are fewer great casters than great players. Pretty simple really.
Sorry but that's not how it works.
Do you think there are more great soccer/football players than there are casters? Yes. And the players still make much more.
I am pretty sure there are more doctors in this world then there are sc2 casters. Doctors makes more (i would think anyway lol).
Point being, there are more factors. I don't think the fact that there are more "great" casters than there are great players has much to do with it.
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I'd rather watch Day[9] cast AHGL, filled with people I've never heard of, than watch some no-name cast any of the top players. I've been sucked into SC2, passed through the addicted play-all-day-long-every-day phase, moved to watching streams all day long and watching every tournament, passed that and now I'm at the point where I selectively watch my only my favorite content based on experience. From my experience, that is content with good casters. Sorry players, you are important too, but the importance of the caster far outweighs the players when I'm choosing what to spend my time watching.
Just to emphasize, this is my opinion.
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I find it interesting that Huk mentioned that Pro Players would be great analytical casters. Imagine a person who has such a great understanding of the game because they play it the best.
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On December 01 2011 07:04 TheLOLas wrote:
I find it interesting that Huk mentioned that Pro Players would be great analytical casters. Imagine a person who has such a great understanding of the game because they play it the best.
The problem with that, is that pro players only focus on their matchup, they're often ignorant of other matchup.
not to mention if a pro player is to switch to full time caster, their skills with atrophy, and within 3 months their so called "analytical edge" due to skill, will be gone.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 01 2011 06:55 Dubsy wrote:
Casters get paid more because there are fewer great casters than great players. Pretty simple really.
Absolutely false and incorrect.
Casters get paid more because they ask for more money and by nature they are hired to do a job that does not have a "win or lose" clause in it.
Players get paid less because they will compete for less (MLG) and being sent to an event to compete is considered an honor for players whereas being sent to cast an event is considered an honor for the event.
Players arguing that some of that huge cost that goes to casters being met in the middle ground and fed more into the players is not a bad argument. Hell, Day9 has made this point, TB has made this point and I would hardly think tastosis/husky etc.. would argue against this.
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On December 01 2011 07:02 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:41 GuiMontag wrote:On December 01 2011 06:31 Belha wrote:On December 01 2011 04:25 iNcontroL wrote:
Did you know Day9 made around 20k dream hack weekend? How much do you think TB made? Pointing numbers about how much casters make is not good for anybody. Posting real comparisons isn't a problem, the problem here is that Geoff's making up numbers to support his teammates Normally I just try and ignore idiot forum people who actually have no idea and try to post to defame or spread lies about a community figure but in this case I will make an exception.. I was not making up numbers they are speculated by the DH staff and discussed alongside numerous players who attended and discussed this. Go away troll
Numerous unnamed players and staff. Care to give details about where this number comes from? does it include expenses like airfare and accommodation? Is it separate to the revenue gained through his stream ads?
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Superstars of sc2 needs to calm down on their twitter accounts.
People who get paid to sit infront of their computers actually complain about others making money EASIER?? Lmfao I'm getting scared of this new era of eSports. Get me back to the time where players were thankful they actually got paid anything. Nowdays you just have to say your sponsors name and to be on a weekly show to make a good living.
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Well its awesome then that we have day, tasteless, artosis, apollo, rotterdam, all have been there and now they're casting =)
A good setup imo would be like three ppl, one play-by-play (TB) and then two analytical.
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On December 01 2011 07:02 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:41 GuiMontag wrote:On December 01 2011 06:31 Belha wrote:On December 01 2011 04:25 iNcontroL wrote:
Did you know Day9 made around 20k dream hack weekend? How much do you think TB made? Pointing numbers about how much casters make is not good for anybody. Posting real comparisons isn't a problem, the problem here is that Geoff's making up numbers to support his teammates Normally I just try and ignore idiot forum people who actually have no idea and try to post to defame or spread lies about a community figure but in this case I will make an exception.. I was not making up numbers they are speculated by the DH staff and discussed alongside numerous players who attended and discussed this. Go away troll
Do you know how much I made Geoff? I know I've told Greg how much I make from my regular job but not necessarily from my Starcraft (only that it's irrelevant in comparison). Just curious.
Well its awesome then that we have day, tasteless, artosis, apollo, rotterdam, all have been there and now they're casting =)
A good setup imo would be like three ppl, one play-by-play (TB) and then two analytical.
Yeah it's interesting that the standard is currently 2 rather than 3 which is standard in Korea and normal sportscasting. I think maybe it's just because of the logistical issues in using a team of 3 to cast and getting them all in the same place and practicing together.
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On December 01 2011 04:25 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 11:51 FXOpen wrote:
My head just exploded.. Did huk (highest paid sc2 player from my knowledge) just say that players need to be paid more ? Casters are paid far less than him... Including Artosis and tasteless....
Brain.. explosion. OK I am going to try and pretend this was a post made while drunk, tired or just feeling dumb... Huk has the ability to speak for "players" that is a generalization. None of huk's examples were "I am not paid enough" or "I feel like I deserve much more money etc" he was speaking in general.. players ARE paid a helluva lot less than casters are. In general, casters are treated like THE super stars that are the most important thing while players are 2nd rate. Did you know Day9 made around 20k dream hack weekend? How much do you think TB made? This kind of stuff happens every tourney.. players go and make as little as 0$ or as much as significantly less than the casters... if a player wants to say "there should be some middle ground here" he should NOT get called out by someone who some people think has clout (you). Why the HELL would you ever want to argue against a player saying that players in general should be treated better and paid more on a level towards the casters?
I am not sure what you are arguing for here honestly.
It is inappropriate to list how much a player/caster makes here in a public forum, last I checked I don't see you listing how much you made. Not that I want to know.
There are a lot more players than there are casters, so simple supply/demand economics dictates what they get paid more.
Even if the players need to be paid more, your quarrel isn't with the casters. It is with the tournament organizers.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 01 2011 07:07 GuiMontag wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:02 iNcontroL wrote:On December 01 2011 06:41 GuiMontag wrote:On December 01 2011 06:31 Belha wrote:On December 01 2011 04:25 iNcontroL wrote:
Did you know Day9 made around 20k dream hack weekend? How much do you think TB made? Pointing numbers about how much casters make is not good for anybody. Posting real comparisons isn't a problem, the problem here is that Geoff's making up numbers to support his teammates Normally I just try and ignore idiot forum people who actually have no idea and try to post to defame or spread lies about a community figure but in this case I will make an exception.. I was not making up numbers they are speculated by the DH staff and discussed alongside numerous players who attended and discussed this. Go away troll Numerous unnamed players and staff. Care to give details about where this number comes from? does it include expenses like airfare and accommodation? Is it separate to the revenue gained through his stream ads?
No I don't care to give out names and I am not obligated to say any more than I did. You are new around here, or you've been banned a few times in either case you have a lot to learn about TL and posting.. you don't get to go around calling people a liar and saying they are making things up to help their team and then when they call you an idiot go "WELL THEN TELL ME ALL DETAILS"
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On December 01 2011 07:10 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:07 GuiMontag wrote:On December 01 2011 07:02 iNcontroL wrote:On December 01 2011 06:41 GuiMontag wrote:On December 01 2011 06:31 Belha wrote:On December 01 2011 04:25 iNcontroL wrote:
Did you know Day9 made around 20k dream hack weekend? How much do you think TB made? Pointing numbers about how much casters make is not good for anybody. Posting real comparisons isn't a problem, the problem here is that Geoff's making up numbers to support his teammates Normally I just try and ignore idiot forum people who actually have no idea and try to post to defame or spread lies about a community figure but in this case I will make an exception.. I was not making up numbers they are speculated by the DH staff and discussed alongside numerous players who attended and discussed this. Go away troll Numerous unnamed players and staff. Care to give details about where this number comes from? does it include expenses like airfare and accommodation? Is it separate to the revenue gained through his stream ads? No I don't care to give out names and I am not obligated to say any more than I did. You are new around here, or you've been banned a few times in either case you have a lot to learn about TL and posting.. you don't get to go around calling people a liar and saying they are making things up to help their team and then when they call you an idiot go "WELL THEN TELL ME ALL DETAILS"
So its a made up number...
User was warned for this post
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I think the apparent success of HSC and the love from the community for the pro's casting, along with how well recieved MC's casting with TB was goes to show how much value really, really good analytical casting is. I don't see any really good players switching over to casting permanantly any time soon, but more tournaments like HomeStory Cup would be great.
Imagine if MLG decided to one-up DreamHack by not merely having casters on couches talking about the games, but also players like TLO, Idra, Huk etc? This would give them some extra exposure to the community (always good as a player), and also let the community have some really good analysis on games. Seems like a win-win situation for me, with the only drawbacks being a) getting them to spend their time doing the casting and b) making sure the games are still the focus of the cast.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 01 2011 07:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 07:02 iNcontroL wrote:On December 01 2011 06:41 GuiMontag wrote:On December 01 2011 06:31 Belha wrote:On December 01 2011 04:25 iNcontroL wrote:
Did you know Day9 made around 20k dream hack weekend? How much do you think TB made? Pointing numbers about how much casters make is not good for anybody. Posting real comparisons isn't a problem, the problem here is that Geoff's making up numbers to support his teammates Normally I just try and ignore idiot forum people who actually have no idea and try to post to defame or spread lies about a community figure but in this case I will make an exception.. I was not making up numbers they are speculated by the DH staff and discussed alongside numerous players who attended and discussed this. Go away troll Do you know how much I made Geoff? I know I've told Greg how much I make from my regular job but not necessarily from my Starcraft (only that it's irrelevant in comparison). Just curious.
Yeah he told me. I hope my point isn't being misconstrued.. I am not arguing you are at fault for negotiating good terms.. I am arguing that people like Huk and other player "leaders" are in their right to argue that perhaps a lot of what the casters have been negotiated for themselves should find more middle ground with the players when it comes to tourneys. What a caster makes on their stream, youtube, company salary or what not is none of our business.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this though as you are outspoken about giving back what you make to the players.
And I know we have a history together so consider this a disclaimer: My post here and earlier was in no way an attack against you (at least I didn't intend it to be) and I am not being sarcastic now.
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On December 01 2011 07:03 skyrunner wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:55 Dubsy wrote:
Casters get paid more because there are fewer great casters than great players. Pretty simple really. Sorry but that's not how it works. Do you think there are more great soccer/football players than there are casters? Yes. And the players still make much more. I am pretty sure there are more doctors in this world then there are sc2 casters. Doctors makes more (i would think anyway lol). Point being, there are more factors. I don't think the fact that there are more "great" casters than there are great players has much to do with it.
i think his point is that,
there are fewer amazing casters within the greater pool of casters out there relative to how there are few legendary players (MC, Nestea, and so on) compared to how many progamers there are. even then it doesn't really make much sense because it is not simple at all , rofl
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On December 01 2011 07:07 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:55 Dubsy wrote:
Casters get paid more because there are fewer great casters than great players. Pretty simple really. Absolutely false and incorrect. Casters get paid more because they ask for more money and by nature they are hired to do a job that does not have a "win or lose" clause in it. Players get paid less because they will compete for less (MLG) and being sent to an event to compete is considered an honor for players whereas being sent to cast an event is considered an honor for the event. Players arguing that some of that huge cost that goes to casters being met in the middle ground and fed more into the players is not a bad argument. Hell, Day9 has made this point, TB has made this point and I would hardly think tastosis/husky etc.. would argue against this.
Ummm...Why would you want some one else want to be paid less so you get more??
Why don't you ask for a raise for just yourself. This is not like a 3-way negotiation lol.
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On December 01 2011 07:07 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 06:55 Dubsy wrote:
Casters get paid more because there are fewer great casters than great players. Pretty simple really. Players get paid less because they will compete for less (MLG) and being sent to an event to compete is considered an honor for players whereas being sent to cast an event is considered an honor for the event.
That seems directly like an effect of the above.
It's hard to objectively say but I agree there's simply less casters I'll listen to happily than players I'll watch happily. However, I think whether it is a good argument isn't as important as the validity of casters being "overpaid" and players being "underpaid."
Casters can think whatever they like, the business of the event is what is going to drive decisions. Or at least it should.
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EPT
