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Keep the discussion civil, please. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On December 01 2011 03:17 Snijjer wrote: Only thing I disagree with Huk about is Casters being overpaid. They are most likely making what they are worth. Also, I doubt someone like Moletrap is making as much as Day9 (or at least they certainly shouldn't). | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On November 30 2011 11:51 FXOpen wrote: My head just exploded.. Did huk (highest paid sc2 player from my knowledge) just say that players need to be paid more ? Casters are paid far less than him... Including Artosis and tasteless.... Brain.. explosion. OK I am going to try and pretend this was a post made while drunk, tired or just feeling dumb... Huk has the ability to speak for "players" that is a generalization. None of huk's examples were "I am not paid enough" or "I feel like I deserve much more money etc" he was speaking in general.. players ARE paid a helluva lot less than casters are. In general, casters are treated like THE super stars that are the most important thing while players are 2nd rate. Did you know Day9 made around 20k dream hack weekend? How much do you think TB made? This kind of stuff happens every tourney.. players go and make as little as 0$ or as much as significantly less than the casters... if a player wants to say "there should be some middle ground here" he should NOT get called out by someone who some people think has clout (you). Why the HELL would you ever want to argue against a player saying that players in general should be treated better and paid more on a level towards the casters? | ||
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Kfish
Chile282 Posts
Casters should make money too. Day9 and Tastosis are special cases, they are community heroes and devoted so much that they are not just casters anymore. They are community celebrities and the money they make is not only because of their casting, it's because of their existence. It's like comparing a regular commentator in a sport with a special invite celebrity ex competitive-player to cast with you. | ||
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Nerski
United States1095 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:25 iNcontroL wrote: OK I am going to try and pretend this was a post made while drunk, tired or just feeling dumb... Huk has the ability to speak for "players" that is a generalization. None of huk's examples were "I am not paid enough" or "I feel like I deserve much more money etc" he was speaking in general.. players ARE paid a helluva lot less than casters are. In general, casters are treated like THE super stars that are the most important thing while players are 2nd rate. Did you know Day9 made around 20k dream hack weekend? How much do you think TB made? This kind of stuff happens every tourney.. players go and make as little as 0$ or as much as significantly less than the casters... if a player wants to say "there should be some middle ground here" he should NOT get called out by someone who some people think has clout (you). Why the HELL would you ever want to argue against a player saying that players in general should be treated better and paid more on a level towards the casters? I wouldn't disagree with the statement that in general casters do get paid more. I think that in part though as to do with teams and funding and not really the organizations. IE you can't really fault MLG, IPL, GSL...if the middle of the road player is not making very much money, though you can make a comment about prize pools. Using just regular professional sports as an example the NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB as an organization that sanctions the 'leagues' doesn't directly pay the players. The teams may have revenue sharing from the TV broadcasts (maybe we can have that down the road), but otherwise ticket/merch/sponsors supply the income the team needs to pay the players. I think part of the reason you see players in many instances getting paid less then casters is a result of the way eSports has grown. While a lot of the leagues MLG, GSL, or IPL have made huge strides to have their shit together and to make sure their staff is paid as well as possible. Many of the teams are not nearly as organized or as well funded as a team like EG for instance. I think so long as eSports continues to grow and sponsors are willing to fund teams this over time will improve for players. To some extent thanks to the organizations who run the leagues things are already starting to get better. Especially if you compare the scene now to the scene something like 5 or 10 years ago where many of times you were lucky to get paid at all. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
But this exponential interest in the "best in the business" is not unique to commentators - it works for the players too. The only way for a player not of a really high calibre and has not already broken through to gain money/publicity/sponsors etc is by becoming popular in the community, by being a personality. Destiny, to put it bluntly, is not a great player. Sure, he's good, but I don't seem him making a breakthrough into MLG and making it anywhere near Top 10. The reason he's well-known is because he put an effort into being well-known and is a "personality". Would oGsHerO ever have become as well-known as Liquid'HerO has? He only managed to attend events outside of Korea because he joined TL, a foreign team. Apart from that, he's only made his way in to Code A twice and has made a deep run in that. Who knows how gosu and awesome many other Koreans, or even foreigners, could prove themselves to be given the opportunity? SC2 has it's own celebrity culture, not just with casters but with players too. There is a huge gulf between the best casters and players and the middling casters and players, unless the individual can make something happen with his personality rather than his good play or good analytical skills. Kennigit wrote on reddit about how the top casters are kind of like an old boys club (albeit on another topic). They certainly look like they know each other, but I don't think that is the issue. The issue is how the community sees the casters - the likes of Day[9] are seen as light-years ahead of HDStarcraft, and they get paid accordingly (I would imagine, I don't really know HDStarcraft's paycheck, but I doubt it's anywhere near Day[9]'s for tournaments). The fact that casters get paid comparatively more than players is only a symptom of the community's general celebrity culture, where it is hard to break through and make a name for yourself but once you have you are in the eyes of the public for a long time, even if you do nothing of particular note, and are given more opportunities to become even MORE popular/well-known. | ||
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Nabes
Canada1800 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:25 iNcontroL wrote: OK I am going to try and pretend this was a post made while drunk, tired or just feeling dumb... Huk has the ability to speak for "players" that is a generalization. None of huk's examples were "I am not paid enough" or "I feel like I deserve much more money etc" he was speaking in general.. players ARE paid a helluva lot less than casters are. In general, casters are treated like THE super stars that are the most important thing while players are 2nd rate. Did you know Day9 made around 20k dream hack weekend? How much do you think TB made? This kind of stuff happens every tourney.. players go and make as little as 0$ or as much as significantly less than the casters... if a player wants to say "there should be some middle ground here" he should NOT get called out by someone who some people think has clout (you). Why the HELL would you ever want to argue against a player saying that players in general should be treated better and paid more on a level towards the casters? 20k ...USD? | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On December 01 2011 03:01 StarStruck wrote: Casters are making a ridiculous amount more. It's not even fucking close compared to a middle ground pro. Was just thinking about this post for awhile. I believe that it could be argued that there is a higher level of competition for the top casting job than there is for tournament prize money. It may be appropriate to have this reflected in salaries. I might just be playing devil's advocate here. | ||
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Pulzlulz
Germany412 Posts
korean won | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:46 Pulzlulz wrote: korean won They usually do. *rimshot* | ||
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Synche
United States1345 Posts
How are you suprised at this figure? Day9 is providing his own stream to the event, he's making bank. | ||
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chenchen
United States1136 Posts
This is something fundamentally wrong with the scene as it should be players who are drawing their fans to high profile tournaments, not casters. The best SC2 casts I've ever heard in my life came from people who are very good at this game (various pros, Day9 who's GM with all races, Artosis masters in Korea) | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:25 iNcontroL wrote: OK I am going to try and pretend this was a post made while drunk, tired or just feeling dumb... Huk has the ability to speak for "players" that is a generalization. None of huk's examples were "I am not paid enough" or "I feel like I deserve much more money etc" he was speaking in general.. players ARE paid a helluva lot less than casters are. In general, casters are treated like THE super stars that are the most important thing while players are 2nd rate. Did you know Day9 made around 20k dream hack weekend? How much do you think TB made? This kind of stuff happens every tourney.. players go and make as little as 0$ or as much as significantly less than the casters... if a player wants to say "there should be some middle ground here" he should NOT get called out by someone who some people think has clout (you). Why the HELL would you ever want to argue against a player saying that players in general should be treated better and paid more on a level towards the casters? So DH Winter "gave" the casters more than all the players together? That cannot be true. O.o (not literally giving considering day9 got his money from the consent to host his own stream) | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On December 01 2011 05:06 JustPassingBy wrote: So DH Winter "gave" the casters more than all the players together? That cannot be true. O.o (not literally giving considering day9 got his money from the consent to host his own stream) I didn't use the word "gave" so I am not sure what you are implying here.. I don't disagree that casters work hard and are obviously a huge part of the tourney.. one of the biggest for sure. That said, the overall argument being had here is that players are under valued and casters themselves seem to agree with this so I don't think I need to issue a whole lot of defense here. | ||
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Synche
United States1345 Posts
Good games, etc. etc all that stuff is secondary. Eyeballs on the content is what matters to everyone, obviously. And if you're not a star then seriously, you don't matter monetarily. Thorzain can be replaced by Naniwa can be replaced by Ret, all the same stuff. When you start having a unique value to your name you can expect the big bucks. (like Idra and Huk) | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
I'm beginning to feel more and more that there needs to be some kind of players organization that helps players get more respect from the scene, both financially and in how tournaments are run. | ||
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thesideshow
930 Posts
It seems to me that it's up to teams to market the players and given them the attention that they deserve. Casters on the other hand, market themselves, and are doing a fantastic job of it. | ||
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Synche
United States1345 Posts
And it's also up to the players/teams to start understanding what makes them marketable. Ceremonies, outside content, being personable are all things that are going to get them paid more. At the purest form winning 3 GSLs is going to get you a big name. If you're not able to do that then you should be willing to do other things, or deal with being worth less. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On December 01 2011 05:09 SimDawg wrote: The event's quality is so heavily upon the on-air talent that they deserve to make more than most players. There's no one outside of maybe Huk and Idra that will get more eyes on content that Tastosis or Day9. Good games, etc. etc all that stuff is secondary. Eyeballs on the content is what matters to everyone, obviously. And if you're not a star then seriously, you don't matter monetarily. Thorzain can be replaced by Naniwa can be replaced by Ret, all the same stuff. When you start having a unique value to your name you can expect the big bucks. (like Idra and Huk) Emphasis mine. What you said explains why they DO make more than most players. In no way does it explain why they DESERVE to make more than most players. You just wrote down the status quo and how it works - that doesn't make it right. | ||
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RageBot
Israel1530 Posts
Day9, Tasteless, Artosis, TB, Apollo, MrBitter, the IPL crew (around six pepole), the new GSL pepole (around 4 pepole) and... who else, really? Also, it makes much more sense for the casters to be paid more, we see them a lot more, they are the ones who interact with the crowd, and they are more entertaining than almost every other player out there. The reason that Idra and Huk get payed a lot isn't (just) because they are very good players, but because they are big characters, they draw pepole, Idra's stream can get more viewers than almost every tournemant, and every time Idra joins a tournemant, you can add 5% more viewers for every game that he wins. The casters, and the big stars, get more money for the sponsors, because pepole can relate to them, they see them as human beings first and foremost, unlike players, most of which are simply put - no-names who play the game, and who you see almost nothing else of (and when they do talk, they are shy as hell and you can't feel any sort of attachment to them). | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On December 01 2011 05:21 SeaSwift wrote: Emphasis mine. What you said explains why they DO make more than most players. In no way does it explain why they DESERVE to make more than most players. You just wrote down the status quo and how it works - that doesn't make it right. Yes he does, he argues that the casters weight more heavily than players on the event's quality, thus making them deserving of more money. | ||
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