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Hey guys! If you want to argue that this tourney is "sexist" please make your own thread about it. |
On November 11 2011 10:47 Fanatic-Templar wrote:I don't get the shitstorm about this being female-only. I remember back before SC2 there were a lot of tournaments that refused Koreans (including TSL, I think) and I don't recall it raising a ton of racism complaints. But then again, I didn't read a lot of the posts back then, only came for the match schedules  .
There is no shitstorm, jus a loud minority. Most people just thinks it's great.
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Comparing the inequality in a video game to racial inequality in real life isn't even close to an equal comparison.
SC2, as with ALL video games, is indeed a meritocracy. If you have the skill, you win the games, you get noticed, you get a sponsor (and I'd think a female gamer would actually have an easier time of getting sponsors), and then you go to major events and perform at your best. And, for the record, there is a diamond player in this pool of women, so I guess the meritocracy isn't working as well as I just claimed.
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$10k is a pretty huge prize pool for a 6-person invitational, especially given that there is relatively little "star-power" from the invitees. I'm not sure if girl gamers will ever get to the level of guy gamers though - it's probably not a matter of talent, just a matter of drive/dedication. For example, I found this interview where DaSakura (one of the invitees) says the following:
ESL.NyxRose: Considering your own experiences with the Iron Lady tournaments and the Starcraft community, what are your thoughts on being a female gamer in the e-sports industry, in which the majority is made up of men?
DaSakura: Personally, I don’t think that girls can be as good as boys in Starcraft. When I lose two or three games in a row, I get mad and I stop playing for like an hour [blushes]. And I saw some girls’ streams and I saw a [bunch] of them getting mad when they lost, so my opinion is that boys will always be better at this kind of game.
ESL.NyxRose: Is one of your goals to reach that male competitive level you speak of?
DaSakura: Not really. I’m not addicted to this game. I don’t play that much. Last season I played like 200 games, maximum. So, I don’t think I’m enough in the game to reach this level.
There are some definite mental differences between men and women, so while it's not impossible for there to be a pro woman gamer, the mindset required to become a pro gamer might be pretty rare in women.
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On November 11 2011 09:44 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 09:36 emc wrote:On November 11 2011 09:33 TT1 wrote:On November 11 2011 09:10 AlexCMoi wrote:
Why Poor TT1 ? Losing to a girl isnt insulting... also I was there when she played TT1 on ladder and it was a rape. End of the conversation. must be a pretty famous game because ive read 4-5 female related tournament threads and someone always mentions this game and how she beat me, i wanna see the game so plz post the rep.. im sure she has it saved if its something worth talking about in every thread ^^ OH SNAP SON. we got TT1 in here bustin knowledge btw, someone get on a thread about how sexist this all is, there was a message saying we could do so. So... if that thread gets closed, well wouldn't that be funny? im honesty curious in seeing the game because this is starting to get really fucking annoying, i was ignoring the posts at first because i love female gamers and didnt want to downplay her win but my head is about to explode after seeing some1 bring this shit up for quadrizilion'eth time + Show Spoiler +and i need to save my testies~
She have the replay on her computer if u really want to see it... but I remember the game perfectly... you want FE/forge and she wants double expo and then ling roach hydra play... u attacked with gateways units and switched to 2 stargates and she pushed. That's it, seriously if my girlfriend beat me I wouldnt be mad or anything... you can't win them all.
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Australia8532 Posts
If Flo is still with her team, then there is no way i will be cheering for anyone else!
Go go PMS.Flo ^_^
OT: Great preview and nice initiative by zowie 
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On November 11 2011 11:07 AlexCMoi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 09:44 TT1 wrote:On November 11 2011 09:36 emc wrote:On November 11 2011 09:33 TT1 wrote:On November 11 2011 09:10 AlexCMoi wrote:
Why Poor TT1 ? Losing to a girl isnt insulting... also I was there when she played TT1 on ladder and it was a rape. End of the conversation. must be a pretty famous game because ive read 4-5 female related tournament threads and someone always mentions this game and how she beat me, i wanna see the game so plz post the rep.. im sure she has it saved if its something worth talking about in every thread ^^ OH SNAP SON. we got TT1 in here bustin knowledge btw, someone get on a thread about how sexist this all is, there was a message saying we could do so. So... if that thread gets closed, well wouldn't that be funny? im honesty curious in seeing the game because this is starting to get really fucking annoying, i was ignoring the posts at first because i love female gamers and didnt want to downplay her win but my head is about to explode after seeing some1 bring this shit up for quadrizilion'eth time + Show Spoiler +and i need to save my testies~ She have the replay on her computer if u really want to see it... but I remember the game perfectly... you want FE/forge and she wants double expo and then ling roach hydra play... u attacked with gateways units and switched to 2 stargates and she pushed. That's it, seriously if my girlfriend beat me I wouldnt be mad or anything... you can't win them all.
I'll post the replay when I could. I can't right now, I don't have my computer. But I remember the game pretty well, you went blink stalker, after that you made 2 stargates, and because of my overlord placement I saw them in your base, so that was easy to counter. Anyway, don't worry about that, I'll post the replay when I'll be back home. ^^ I saved that obviously.
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..! I remember watching 'aphrodite' play on Rainbow's team from a long time ago, I forgot all about her.
She's.. actually pretty freaking good. I'm excited!
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United States23455 Posts
On November 11 2011 11:02 delayed reflex wrote:$10k is a pretty huge prize pool for a 6-person invitational, especially given that there is relatively little "star-power" from the invitees. I'm not sure if girl gamers will ever get to the level of guy gamers though - it's probably not a matter of talent, just a matter of drive/dedication. For example, I found this interview where DaSakura (one of the invitees) says the following: Show nested quote +ESL.NyxRose: Considering your own experiences with the Iron Lady tournaments and the Starcraft community, what are your thoughts on being a female gamer in the e-sports industry, in which the majority is made up of men?
DaSakura: Personally, I don’t think that girls can be as good as boys in Starcraft. When I lose two or three games in a row, I get mad and I stop playing for like an hour [blushes]. And I saw some girls’ streams and I saw a [bunch] of them getting mad when they lost, so my opinion is that boys will always be better at this kind of game.
ESL.NyxRose: Is one of your goals to reach that male competitive level you speak of?
DaSakura: Not really. I’m not addicted to this game. I don’t play that much. Last season I played like 200 games, maximum. So, I don’t think I’m enough in the game to reach this level. There are some definite mental differences between men and women, so while it's not impossible for there to be a pro woman gamer, the mindset required to become a pro gamer might be pretty rare in women.
I don't really believe a girl can't be better than most men in gaming. Look at Tossgirl. Yes, in the scope of the Korean players, she was a B-teamer and was embarrassed by the better players, but in terms of skill, she was better than almost every foreigner and won series against some lower-level progamers in tournaments.
And a lot of players get mad when they lose. That's what happens when you're dedicated to a game and lose. You get frustrated.
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Five out of six are Asian, interesting.
This sounds fun. If I see a stream up, I'll give it a watch.
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is there live audience at the tournement?
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Great write up <3 Can't wait!
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No girl tosses? 
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Disappointing to not see any protoss, but still excited for this. Go Colagirl, represent the motherland!!
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On November 11 2011 10:58 Shel wrote:
Comparing the inequality in a video game to racial inequality in real life isn't even close to an equal comparison.
True enough. It was more of an attempt at allegory than a statement that they were equal problems.
On November 11 2011 10:58 Shel wrote:
SC2, as with ALL video games, is indeed a meritocracy. If you have the skill, you win the games, you get noticed, you get a sponsor (and I'd think a female gamer would actually have an easier time of getting sponsors), and then you go to major events and perform at your best. And, for the record, there is a diamond player in this pool of women, so I guess the meritocracy isn't working as well as I just claimed.
An ideal meritocracy only exists under the condition that everyone 1) starts on an equal footing, and 2) competes in an environment that treats all equally. I would suggest that neither condition is fulfilled for women in SC2. It is far less likely that girls' parents and friends tolerate hours spent playing RTS games, partly because of a general lack of social acceptance for female gamers. The stereotype isn't there to normalize the activity. Then, women who do compete end up harassed and sexualized by a largely male community (a largely horny male community). That, needless to say, can serve to create a hostile environment.
Therefore why such tournaments are such a positive thing. Give role-models and provide a space free of harassment. Encourage more women to power through the B.S. they face being gamers.
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I'm with Pugget.
I'll definitely be following this.
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Well, based on this thread and the other one about Divina, I'd hardly say this is a harassment free environment
And I hear what you're saying, and that's true when you're talking about something like black people going to college or gay people getting jobs. If you want to talk about women on the whole having a problem being competitive gamers, I don't know if I agree with you that women have a harder time getting away with it from a parents' perspective, especially considering that once a woman leaves home that's no longer an issue, but certainly there is some factor or set of factors that makes it so that fewer women want to play.
But that still doesn't reject the idea that gaming is a meritocracy. For one, you don't have to reveal that you're a woman. Even if you're in the open bracket at an MLG, you're likely not going to get any attention. I mean, we know about Aurora, we know about Flo (who, sadly, left PMS), but I don't believe they're the only two women who have competed in the MLG open bracket this season. Maybe I'm wrong though. But I mean, Divina could only find 12 female SC2 players. Certainly there are way way more then that. And I have seen Megumixbear deal with a whole lot of shit, but it doesn't phase her. To her, it's just a part of being a female gamer, nbd.
I still contend that online gaming is all about skill and that any other factor is irrelevant.
Oh, and the idea that women are somehow emotionally unequipped to deal with losses is absolutely ridiculous. Ask any pro, male or female, they all take losses seriously. They all get pissed. It's not your reaction that matters, it's how you overcome it, and that's a skill that almost anyone can eventually master.
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EPT
