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My view is that the different stages of the game are defined by what players are trying to achieve rather than what they're doing.
Early game: The part of the game where scouting is easy to deny, in this part of the game, you try to abuse the lack of information to gain an early lead. If you're doing a cheesy build, you skip to the endgame.
Midgame: At this point, you should be ahead in some sort of way. If your opponent is ahead on economy, you should be ahead either in tech or in units, at this stage, you should be using the advantage you got early game to either secure or deny additional bases. Additionally, you should be developing techs that allow your army to be more cost effective against the opposing army. If you're doing some sort of all-in, skip to the endgame.
Lategame: Securing your own bases and denying your enemy's should be the main objective of this stage. At this stage of the game, you should have unlocked most if not all of your race's techs. Typically, one of the two races will have the stronger late-game army. The objective of that player is to create that army, while the other player strives to hamper the economy of that player while securing their own in order to overwhelm the superior army with large quantities of units.
Endgame: This is the part where you attempt to end the game. You reach this stage either because there is either an economic or strategic disparity(or both). For an economic disparity the player with the weaker economy should attempt to kill off the opposing army and camp/destroy his production, making economy irrelevant, while the player with the stronger economy should stall as long as possible in order for that economic advantage turn into a strategic advantage. If neither player can continue producing, then the players should maximize the cost-effectiveness of what they have.
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On November 11 2011 03:26 TheOrigin wrote:
I would say the Metagame is the evolution of viable strategies in the environment of the game. Just like in biological evolution, once a strategy/species exists it is part of the environment and other strategies/species must adapt to it. In this way the metagame keeps evolving and different strategies are born, adapt, branch off and die out.
I think your metaphore is spot on. I added it to the definition.
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On November 11 2011 03:49 guoguo wrote:
My view is that the different stages of the game are defined by what players are trying to achieve rather than what they're doing.
Early game: The part of the game where scouting is easy to deny, in this part of the game, you try to abuse the lack of information to gain an early lead. If you're doing a cheesy build, you skip to the endgame.
Midgame: At this point, you should be ahead in some sort of way. If your opponent is ahead on economy, you should be ahead either in tech or in units, at this stage, you should be using the advantage you got early game to either secure or deny additional bases. Additionally, you should be developing techs that allow your army to be more cost effective against the opposing army. If you're doing some sort of all-in, skip to the endgame.
Lategame: Securing your own bases and denying your enemy's should be the main objective of this stage. At this stage of the game, you should have unlocked most if not all of your race's techs. Typically, one of the two races will have the stronger late-game army. The objective of that player is to create that army, while the other player strives to hamper the economy of that player while securing their own in order to overwhelm the superior army with large quantities of units.
Endgame: This is the part where you attempt to end the game. You reach this stage either because there is either an economic or strategic disparity(or both). For an economic disparity the player with the weaker economy should attempt to kill off the opposing army and camp/destroy his production, making economy irrelevant, while the player with the stronger economy should stall as long as possible in order for that economic advantage turn into a strategic advantage. If neither player can continue producing, then the players should maximize the cost-effectiveness of what they have.
This is interesting, you define a difference between lategame and endgame. That did not yet occur to me, thanks.
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Metagame means the way people are expected to play. If you forget to scout you usually assume the enemy is doing something. This something defines the metagame.
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meta game is how you react to the current standard game play. Example; As a zerg on the Tal darim' altar you know that it is common for a fast nexus and so a you can make a 6pool based on that assumption.
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meta game is where you take information outside the game, that influences your decisions inside the game. That's really all it is. If I'm playing a random zerg, but i know that zergs like x, y, and z, I might prepare for those and say "I tried to meta-game you"
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Early game: 1 base for Terran/Protoss, 2 base for Zerg
Mid game: 2 base for Terran/Protoss, 3 base for Zerg
Late game: 3+ base for Terran/Protoss, 4+ base for Zerg
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As a zerg player, we can basically define game stages by our tech level.
Early game is when we are still only using hatch tech up until our lair finishes, being passive and trying to survive pressure.
Mid Game is when we are mainly using lair tech units, expanding out, being aggressive, harrassing, etc
Late game is the part where we have broods, ultras, +3 everything, 4+ mining bases, and basically following the zerg training manual for attacking.
+ Show Spoiler +1. Make army
2. Throw at enemy.
3. Inject
4. Micro
5. Lather, rinse, repeat
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Just because Chill is a TL mod doesn't mean that he's always right...he linked the correct definition of metagame on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming
But then he decided to just use one example of the definition, and then ignore the rest. You can't do that.
From the wikipedia article, examples of metagaming:
1. There is a special set of moves in chess which allows a player to win in four moves. Competitor A has been watching Competitor B play chess, and the past five games in a row Competitor B has attempted to use this four-move win. When Competitor A sits down to play against Competitor B, Competitor A will be metagaming if he/she plays in a way that will easily thwart the four-move checkmate before Competitor B makes it obvious that this is what he/she is doing.
Some people choose to call this portion of "metagaming" as "mind gaming". You make decisions inside the game that you otherwise normally wouldn't, because you know the player's style or weaknesses. For example, choosing to cheese Idra is metagaming. Assuming that Ret will use an advantage to make drones instead of baneling busting is metagaming. BMing Incontrol is metagaming.
2. In the popular trading card game Magic: The Gathering players compete with decks they have created in advance and the "metagame" consists of the deck types that are currently popular and expected to show up in large numbers in a tournament. The knowledge of metagame trends can give the players an edge against other participants, while playing (quickly recognizing what kind of deck opponents have to guess their likely cards and moves) and more importantly in the deck building process, by selecting and adapting designs to do well against the popular deck types at the expense of performance against rarer ones. It's also possible to bluff opponents into expecting cards that aren't there, or to surprise the competition with novel decks that nobody is prepared for. The secondary market of cards is heavily influenced by metagame trends: cards become more valuable when they are popular, often to the point of scarcity.
Some people choose to call this portion of "metagaming" as "standard play". You make decisions inside the game that you otherwise normally wouldn't, because you know that a particular strategy is really popular right now. For example, choosing to go blind Ghosts in TvP because you know that Zealot/Archon is really popular right now is metagaming.
Metagaming encompasses both definitions. You can't say #1 is an appropiate use of metagaming while ignoring #2. It's as stupid as arguing that the phrase "I punched that guy" is incorrect compared to "I jabbed that guy". Just because "jab" is more specific doesn't mean that "punched" is incorrect.
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Early game : Weak economy that can support limited amount of buildings and units.
Mid game : Ok economy and army but still not enough to feel confident for a full attack (either weak on upgrades or some specific aspect of your army, like anti-air/splash dmg etc).
Late game: Usually at supply cap or even a little earlier. Strong economy and building count, able to reproduce armies rapidly. Good upgrades.
Obviously there are situations that the gap between two players is quite large. For example: Player 1 decides to do an early all-in but fails due to bad micro,army composition or positioning. Player 2 who did a "standard" build and defended the all-in is now way ahead in both economy and tech (possibly in army count as well). After the all-in we can say that Player 2 is advancing to the "mid game" while Player 1, who failed and has crappy eco and tech, is still stuck at an "early game situation" (the player who is ahead determines the stage of the game, and once he meets the above requirements I think it's correct to say that we're in mid game).
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On November 11 2011 01:53 Callynn wrote:Dear fellow TLs, I am creating this discussion thread because there was a question on the blizzard sc2 forum regarding the definitions of the terms Early Game, Mid Game and End Game (Meta game?). While I replied, I was unsure about my being correct, so I decided to search the forum and Liquipedia for the definitions of these terms in Starcraft 2. The pages for these terms actually do not exist, but I am not so arrogant to think I know the actual definitions. This is why I am posting this to ask the opinions of the community and help setup the definitions for Liquipedia. The questions I would like to see answered in this thread are: 1) What is your definition of 'Early Game' in Starcraft 2?
2) What is your definition of 'Mid Game' in Starcraft 2?
3) What is your definition of 'End Game' in Starcraft 2?
4) What is your definition of 'Meta Game' in Starcraft 2?My personal ideas about the definitions are: + Show Spoiler +Although there is no scientific description of the terms early, mid and endgame, they are generally defined by a combination of what other replies have suggested (in my opinion). Earlygame - Earlygame is typically the period where choices and mistakes have the biggest impact on how the game continues. Because people have only few workers in early game, deciding to make a 'early gas' has a huge impact on the choices the player can make further down the game. 'Early gas' would cost protoss and terran 3 workers that are not collecting minerals and zerg even 4 workers, reducing the chance they are able to do early agression. Early game defines what strategies a player can efficiently develop and therefore scouting at this stage can tell a lot! Early game generally ends around 7 to 11 minutes, depending on the level of skill of the players (grand masters enter the midgame earlier than bronze players do). Midgame - Midgame is typically the period where the strategy of the early game can come together, allowing for the first combat engagement. While a dark templar rush is 'early' it takes place in the midgame because this is the moment at which the strategy comes together for the player that is rushing. It is possible that the player he is rushing is still in the early game, which may cause a lot of stress to be able to fight off the push. However, this accounts for any tactic. If you have all the units you want and feel ready to attack, you are effectively in your midgame. Midgame typically starts between 7 and 12 minutes, depending on the tactic used and the level of skill of the individual players. Midgame pushes can end the game. Endgame - The End game starts the moment the midgame pushes of both players clash and cause no crippling damage to either, allowing the game to move on and forcing players to work on more complex strategies. The end game involves expansion control, because the main and often the natural will start running low by the time end game develops. End games can be very boring to watch, but also very exciting. Most professional games of players on equal footing involve taking almost the entire map. End game starts when initial strategies designed to end the game have failed in the midgame, which can be anywhere between 15 and 20 minutes for high skilled players (diamond and above). Metagame - Metagame literally meaning "a game outside the game," is a prediction of how others will make decisions in a game based on their personality or their previous decisions. A metagame can exist in any game in which the opposition is human or portrays some sort of artificial intelligence and the competitors make choices. Metagaming is taking advantage of the metagame for purposes of winning more often. Metagaming can also be called the current trend, the flavor of the month or the game shift based on a popular progamer executing a 'new' strategy that works really well or based on a recent patch change in the game. Metagame is the evolution of viable strategies in the environment of the game. Just like in biological evolution, once a strategy/species exists it is part of the environment and other strategies/species must adapt to it. In this way the metagame keeps evolving and different strategies are born, adapted, branch off, die out and are sometimes reborn. -- I also added the word 'Rush' because the page about the word 'Rush' is incomplete and very short (2 sentences only). I am also using my definition of the word 'Rush' to help define the early, mid and end game. Rush - A rush is a strategy involving mostly a single unit type that is executed to such perfection that the unit is generally out on the game board (the map) a lot sooner than the opponent may expect or may be able to prepare for (depending on his skill). A rush is defined by another important factor: It is very demanding on the economy of the player performing the rush, investing everything into getting out the unit early and effectively. Although rushes can take place in the early game for the opposing player, a performed rush places the rusher into his midgame. The outcome of a rush often dictates the winning player because if a rush is succesful the opponent is beaten and if the rush failed the rusher's economy will not be able to catch up to his opponent and eventually lose several minutes later (if he does not already leave the game). Edit#1: Edited the term Endgame. Edit#2: Edited the term Metagame.
Early game Tier 1
Mid game Tier 2
Late game Tier 3
Of course, this only counts when there is a good Zerg player defining tiers. T &P can blast through tiers too quickly to be useful.
The metagame is how the game is played by its players. For example BW itself didn't change between 2004 and 2008, but the games themselves were played very differently. That's the metagame.
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Mid game shouldn't have a time on it, at least by my definition.
Late or "End" game is when a player is mining from more than 2 bases, and they are safe from any sort of 2 base "timing" push. Late game often involves a lot more "skill" (macro/micro/multitasking) because armies can be re created much easier. Generally all types of "timing" attacks have passed. If 2 players enter the end game on completely even footing, generally the game of rock paper scissors where X build isn't blindly countered by Y has ended and players must win by "outplaying" the opponent. Usually an end game army supply is above 150
That being said, lets say 2 protoss in the "mid game" both on 1 base or maybe even 2 trade armies constantly, and are only secured thirds and fourths when the mains and naturals they are mining from are out of minerals. Both players are not at an ideal worker count, neither are teching as much as they would like nor upgrading. They are still in a very vulnerable state of X player decides to make pheonix and Y player makes collosi/zelots. Y player loses. Both players are generally sitting on a low 60-120 army supply and more often than not, if one player gets greedy and invests in a third or fourth too soon this can cost them the game.
I've watched and played in many games where 30mins in I still have a mid-game army composition, tech, active mining bases ect. And my opponent is usually in the same state, I would not classify this as "late" game at all.
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1) What is your definition of 'Early Game' in Starcraft 2?
Anything that happens until both players have pretty much settled on teching/macroing up passed initial early game timings. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how far along the tech tree each player is or how long the game has been playing for.
So regardless if anyone has rushed or attacked at all, the moment both players have shifted gears into not needing to scout for the time being because they see what the other player is doing and decide that they can tech further or expand further, that is the start of the midgame. And usually what sets this off is that both players realize they are not in a position to attack successfully any time soon because of their build order and the opponents.
2) What is your definition of 'Mid Game' in Starcraft 2?
Any point after the above, Before T3/full tech and like 3 or more bases. Usually after the early game is forgone, players now have the new tech/econ for new attack timings. Scouting and feeling out the opponent and positioning for map control. Harassment is pretty huge precursor for setting up the late game. Again, once both players sort of 'agree' that they can't attack successfully they move onto the late game.
3) What is your definition of 'End Game' in Starcraft 2?
Nearing full tech and 3+ bases. Pretty much anything goes at this point. Scouting is vastly more important because there really are no more timings to prepare for. Often times you will see map split in half and bases killed and regained multiple times and not causing an outright loss because of it.
4) What is your definition of 'Meta Game' in Starcraft 2?
Meta game is the same in anything. It means 'outside' the game. So if player Z knows player B always 6pools and Z prepares an inferior build that only stops 6pool but B doesn't 6pool. He just got metagamed. If a player griefs a player with chat etc and screws up his build with psychological tricks, that is metagame. If everyone in the ladder is doing a build because it's deemed to be the best most efficient or even imbalanced build, and the other races are doing weird builds to try and deal with it and you just forgo the best build and do some timing that destroys their counter build then that is metagame as well.
Metagame is many things.
People in sc2 confuse metagame for 'current common strategy' or some other incorrect definition.
PS- None of the 3 game timing steps have really much at all to do with time, bases, tech, or army size. It's more based on when there are lulls in the action between situations (sorry I don't know how else to word it).
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EPT
