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[D] Defining Early, Mid and Meta (end) game

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Callynn
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands917 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-10 18:45:34
November 10 2011 16:53 GMT
#1
Dear fellow TLs,

I am creating this discussion thread because there was a question on the blizzard sc2 forum regarding the definitions of the terms Early Game, Mid Game and End Game (Meta game?). While I replied, I was unsure about my being correct, so I decided to search the forum and Liquipedia for the definitions of these terms in Starcraft 2. The pages for these terms actually do not exist, but I am not so arrogant to think I know the actual definitions.

This is why I am posting this to ask the opinions of the community and help setup the definitions for Liquipedia.

The questions I would like to see answered in this thread are:

1) What is your definition of 'Early Game' in Starcraft 2?

2) What is your definition of 'Mid Game' in Starcraft 2?

3) What is your definition of 'End Game' in Starcraft 2?

4) What is your definition of 'Meta Game' in Starcraft 2?


My personal ideas about the definitions are:
+ Show Spoiler +
Although there is no scientific description of the terms early, mid and endgame, they are generally defined by a combination of what other replies have suggested (in my opinion).

Earlygame - Earlygame is typically the period where choices and mistakes have the biggest impact on how the game continues. Because people have only few workers in early game, deciding to make a 'early gas' has a huge impact on the choices the player can make further down the game. 'Early gas' would cost protoss and terran 3 workers that are not collecting minerals and zerg even 4 workers, reducing the chance they are able to do early agression. Early game defines what strategies a player can efficiently develop and therefore scouting at this stage can tell a lot! Early game generally ends around 7 to 11 minutes, depending on the level of skill of the players (grand masters enter the midgame earlier than bronze players do).


Midgame - Midgame is typically the period where the strategy of the early game can come together, allowing for the first combat engagement. While a dark templar rush is 'early' it takes place in the midgame because this is the moment at which the strategy comes together for the player that is rushing. It is possible that the player he is rushing is still in the early game, which may cause a lot of stress to be able to fight off the push. However, this accounts for any tactic. If you have all the units you want and feel ready to attack, you are effectively in your midgame. Midgame typically starts between 7 and 12 minutes, depending on the tactic used and the level of skill of the individual players. Midgame pushes can end the game.


Endgame - The End game starts the moment the midgame pushes of both players clash and cause no crippling damage to either, allowing the game to move on and forcing players to work on more complex strategies. The end game involves expansion control, because the main and often the natural will start running low by the time end game develops. End games can be very boring to watch, but also very exciting. Most professional games of players on equal footing involve taking almost the entire map. End game starts when initial strategies designed to end the game have failed in the midgame, which can be anywhere between 15 and 20 minutes for high skilled players (diamond and above).


Metagame - Metagame literally meaning "a game outside the game," is a prediction of how others will make decisions in a game based on their personality or their previous decisions. A metagame can exist in any game in which the opposition is human or portrays some sort of artificial intelligence and the competitors make choices. Metagaming is taking advantage of the metagame for purposes of winning more often. Metagaming can also be called the current trend, the flavor of the month or the game shift based on a popular progamer executing a 'new' strategy that works really well or based on a recent patch change in the game. Metagame is the evolution of viable strategies in the environment of the game. Just like in biological evolution, once a strategy/species exists it is part of the environment and other strategies/species must adapt to it. In this way the metagame keeps evolving and different strategies are born, adapted, branch off, die out and are sometimes reborn.

-- I also added the word 'Rush' because the page about the word 'Rush' is incomplete and very short (2 sentences only). I am also using my definition of the word 'Rush' to help define the early, mid and end game.

Rush - A rush is a strategy involving mostly a single unit type that is executed to such perfection that the unit is generally out on the game board (the map) a lot sooner than the opponent may expect or may be able to prepare for (depending on his skill). A rush is defined by another important factor: It is very demanding on the economy of the player performing the rush, investing everything into getting out the unit early and effectively. Although rushes can take place in the early game for the opposing player, a performed rush places the rusher into his midgame. The outcome of a rush often dictates the winning player because if a rush is succesful the opponent is beaten and if the rush failed the rusher's economy will not be able to catch up to his opponent and eventually lose several minutes later (if he does not already leave the game).


The source of the question on the Blizzard forum

Edit#1: Edited the term Endgame.
Edit#2: Edited the term Metagame.
Comparing BW with SCII is like comparing a beautiful three-master sailing ship with a modern battlecruiser. Both are beautiful in their own way, both perform the same task, but they are worlds apart in how they are built and how they are steered.
VeryAverage
Profile Joined January 2011
United States424 Posts
November 10 2011 16:55 GMT
#2
That's not the definition of metagame at all... it has nothing to do with what time you are in the game.

Metagame is the use of outside materials to gain an advantage. It's like if I watch 10 replays of a player's TvP and I see he walls off every single time and goes 1 rax expand so I do a void ray all in.
yoeri
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands8 Posts
November 10 2011 16:56 GMT
#3
Well for me early game is the build up to the mid game so for example the build you are doing.
mid game is from the end of the early game till where your goal for the mid game is unsuccesfull or succesfull.
depending of your midgame you get in the endgame.

and meta game is everything above the game, peoples think paterns etc.
Zasz: You dare threaten a Cerebrate? You will be the doom of us all!
Callynn
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands917 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-10 16:57:52
November 10 2011 16:57 GMT
#4
On November 11 2011 01:55 VeryAverage wrote:
That's not the definition of metagame at all... it has nothing to do with what time you are in the game.

Metagame is the use of outside materials to gain an advantage. It's like if I watch 10 replays of a player's TvP and I see he walls off every single time and goes 1 rax expand so I do a void ray all in.


Cool, thanks. So what is your definition of the word 'Metagame' then? It has to involve a multitude of matches of the same matchup? Please clarify.
Comparing BW with SCII is like comparing a beautiful three-master sailing ship with a modern battlecruiser. Both are beautiful in their own way, both perform the same task, but they are worlds apart in how they are built and how they are steered.
kraut
Profile Joined April 2010
374 Posts
November 10 2011 16:57 GMT
#5
????

metagame is the common style of play ..different regions can have different metagames
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-10 17:02:28
November 10 2011 16:58 GMT
#6
Meta = After, Outside or Beyond

MetaGame = The work and decisions you do outside of actually playing the game that will effect how you play the game.

Example 1: Joe has seen 20 replays of Brad and Joe noticed that Brad DT rushed in 12 of those games. Joe is going to mod his build to have an early eng bay for turrets if/when he faces Brad.

Example 2: Joe has been rushed on the ladder every time he does a 1 rax FE. Joe is now going to blindly build 2 bunkers as his expansion goes up.

Example 3: Joe is in the Code S GSL finals and Nestea is his enemy. Nestea JUST 6 pooled in game 1 and won. Joe is certain (or is at least willing to bet) that Nestea won't 6 pool 2 games in a row. Joe opens with a 1 rax and starts the CC before his wall is even done. This allows him to get a bit more econ at the cost of being vulnerable to a 6 pool which he does not think will come. Nestea predicts that Joe will predict that Nestea won't 6 pool and, of course, 6 pools. Nestea has used metagame to beat the metagame move that Joe just made.
Rotodyne
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United States2263 Posts
November 10 2011 16:59 GMT
#7
Anyone that says the m word should be banned
I can only play starcraft when I am shit canned. IPXZERG is a god.
Surili
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom1141 Posts
November 10 2011 16:59 GMT
#8
I don't really know what to say about this, i am not sure anyone was looking for definitions of these words on tl, and even if they were, i do not agree with yours.

Especially your use of the word meta instead of end/late. Meta literally means over/above/outside of or parallel to, not end. A meta game scenario is when i, when playing with my friend, blind counter by opening 10 gate for his proxy gates, knowing that he likes to cheese. I used information from outside the game to affect in game decisions. Any time that a terran blindly builds vikings they are appealing to a meta game sense that they have.

This is just two examples. What you said has nothing to do with meta-game.
The world is ending what should we do about it?
VeryAverage
Profile Joined January 2011
United States424 Posts
November 10 2011 16:59 GMT
#9
On November 11 2011 01:57 Callynn wrote:
Cool, thanks. So what is your definition of the word 'Metagame' then? It has to involve a multitude of matches of the same matchup? Please clarify.


It's just using things outside of the game's resources/rule sets to gain an advantage. Looking at build orders/replays/going against trends.

If everybody in ZvT doesn't get an evo chamber or lair until the 10 minute mark, it would be metagaming to do a banshee rush.
slackador
Profile Joined June 2011
United States19 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-10 17:04:50
November 10 2011 17:00 GMT
#10
I didn't read your answers, as to not cloud my own opinions of the following:

1) What is your definition of 'Early Game' in Starcraft 2?
** Decision on when/whether or not to go early aggression. This can be as short as both players going eco-oriented expand builds, where the early game end after 4 minutes or so, or as long as the early attack lasts (be it to end of game or end of aggression)

2) What is your definition of 'Mid Game' in Starcraft 2?
** Transition in to the basic army comp/tech path that the opening build order aimed for. 2-base roach/ling all-in, 1-1-1, 4-gate, 6-gate, Muta harass, etc. What the player went in to the game "aiming" for. This lasts for a long time, including tier-3 tech, until both players have dropped an over-arching game plan and are simply reacting to each other to not die

3) What is your definition of 'End Game' in Starcraft 2?
** Point where, looking at the minimap, you cannot really tell what the opening build orders were. Mid-game compositions are irrelevant, and both players are simply reacting to each other to stay afloat.

4) What is your definition of 'Meta Game' in Starcraft 2?
** The use of limited scouting information to narrow down possible tech paths/strategies beyond simply what the scouting info suggests. I.E., 1 gas Terran before Rax could mean tons of things... early hellions, 1-1-1, cloaked banshee, 2-port banshee, etc, but currently, since hellions are in-vogue, I'll just ASSUME that's whats happening and plan on getting roaches.

Edit to add "Rush"

5) Rush?
** The sacrificing of economy (by cutting workers or delaying expansions) to apply pressure with attacking units. If no damage is done, you are automatically behind.
Callynn
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands917 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-10 17:02:39
November 10 2011 17:01 GMT
#11
Could people please attempt to define all four terms so we can help Liquipedia fill up?

Meta = After, Outside or Beyond


I always thought meta meant 'many' or 'multiple facets of the same'. Thanks for your reply though.

Also, thank you Slackador for helping define all four terms. I will make a poll when I have enough opinions to see which definition may be used to define each term.
Comparing BW with SCII is like comparing a beautiful three-master sailing ship with a modern battlecruiser. Both are beautiful in their own way, both perform the same task, but they are worlds apart in how they are built and how they are steered.
Jesushooves
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada553 Posts
November 10 2011 17:04 GMT
#12
On November 11 2011 02:01 Callynn wrote:
Could people please attempt to define all four terms so we can help Liquipedia fill up?

Show nested quote +
Meta = After, Outside or Beyond


I always thought meta meant 'many' or 'multiple facets of the same'. Thanks for your reply though.

Also, thank you Slackador for helping define all four terms. I will make a poll when I have enough opinions to see which definition may be used to define each term.

I understand that you are trying to increase the overall information of the game to everyone.....but these terms are well known to everyone it seems but you. Not trying to be rude but these are basic terms, it's like creating a thread based on what people think macro or micro means.
Lose its good, after will be win.
Callynn
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands917 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-10 17:23:15
November 10 2011 17:11 GMT
#13
On November 11 2011 02:04 Jesushooves wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2011 02:01 Callynn wrote:
Could people please attempt to define all four terms so we can help Liquipedia fill up?

Meta = After, Outside or Beyond


I always thought meta meant 'many' or 'multiple facets of the same'. Thanks for your reply though.

Also, thank you Slackador for helping define all four terms. I will make a poll when I have enough opinions to see which definition may be used to define each term.

I understand that you are trying to increase the overall information of the game to everyone.....but these terms are well known to everyone it seems but you. Not trying to be rude but these are basic terms, it's like creating a thread based on what people think macro or micro means.


Are you saying my definitions are incorrect? If so, then please help define them. It's not rude if you actually show that you know how the terms are defined - but it is a contradiction if you are suggesting its stupid not to know how they are defined and then not defining them yourself.

Also, I am pretty sure I'm not the only one who is unsure on how to define the terms, otherwise there wouldn't be variable replies on the SC2 forum. For new players who want to know what is meant by these 'basic terms' I don't think it's strange to add them to Liquipedia and then asking the feedback of the community on them.

So could you help define the terms for new players or 'less intellectual plebs' who want to be able to follow day[9] broadcasts and tournaments?
Comparing BW with SCII is like comparing a beautiful three-master sailing ship with a modern battlecruiser. Both are beautiful in their own way, both perform the same task, but they are worlds apart in how they are built and how they are steered.
Poehalcho
Profile Joined October 2011
149 Posts
November 10 2011 17:11 GMT
#14
early game -> before I get a tank
mid game -> tanks and medivacs
late game / end game -> 200/200 capped, war is imminent
metagame -> gameflow, mindgames, state of the game; a very undefined term.
Rush -> an attack before the first 5 mins, involving entering my base (bunker rushes don't count if the bunkers are outside, then it's a contain).
Great Master Chief Nerdotaku God Emperor Bauss
kenkou
Profile Joined September 2010
United States235 Posts
November 10 2011 17:14 GMT
#15
On November 11 2011 01:59 Rotodyne wrote:
Anyone that says the m word should be banned


I object to this statement. The metagame is a very important part of any sort of game with strategy. Before people start using the word though, I hope they understand the meaning of the word, instead of randomly throwing it in a sentence hoping they used the word right.

As I am a former M:TG player, and this term was used all the time, I don't feel this word has the same place like the "B" word does in starcraft. I like this definition the most.

Metagame (Greek: μέτα = “about”, “beyond”), literally "a game outside the game," is a prediction of how others will make decisions in a game based on their personality or their previous decisions. A metagame can exist in any game in which the opposition is human or portrays some sort of artificial intelligence and the competitors make choices. Metagaming is taking advantage of the metagame for purposes of winning more often.

http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Metagame

vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
November 10 2011 17:15 GMT
#16
Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.

In simple terms, using out-of-game information, or resources, to affect one's in-game decisions.

from wikipedia
LuisFrost
Profile Joined February 2011
Mexico130 Posts
November 10 2011 17:16 GMT
#17
As far as I know metagame comes from metalanguage, which is what linguists named the function of language which allows it to talk about itself. For example, you use your language to talk about your language every time you discuss grammar or the usage of words or whatever. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalanguage) So, metagame is kind of the same thing: you are creating strategies based on the strategies you see other players using. If most zergs defend with lings and early expand in ZvP some protoss are going to blindly open with a zealot push because they asume the zerg won't expect it and the lings will just be unable to defend. That strat works based on two assumptions learned frome the way most people play: most toss don't do it and the zerg may not be prepared for it. That's the way I understand it but it stills confuses me: how is that different from simply saying it's a timing attack with zealots? And there's people who use metagame to refer to the state of the game, to the way people play it at a certain point in time. It's a vague term, but most people use it to mean one of those things.
Callynn
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands917 Posts
November 10 2011 17:21 GMT
#18
On November 11 2011 02:14 kenkou wrote:
Metagame (Greek: μέτα = “about”, “beyond”), literally "a game outside the game," is a prediction of how others will make decisions in a game based on their personality or their previous decisions. A metagame can exist in any game in which the opposition is human or portrays some sort of artificial intelligence and the competitors make choices. Metagaming is taking advantage of the metagame for purposes of winning more often.

http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Metagame


I think this is a fair definition to add to Liquipedia. I will be adding it to a poll if enough good alternatives arise, otherwise I will add it to Liquipedia as it defined here.
Comparing BW with SCII is like comparing a beautiful three-master sailing ship with a modern battlecruiser. Both are beautiful in their own way, both perform the same task, but they are worlds apart in how they are built and how they are steered.
Rotodyne
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United States2263 Posts
November 10 2011 17:23 GMT
#19
On November 11 2011 02:14 kenkou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2011 01:59 Rotodyne wrote:
Anyone that says the m word should be banned


I object to this statement. The metagame is a very important part of any sort of game with strategy. Before people start using the word though, I hope they understand the meaning of the word, instead of randomly throwing it in a sentence hoping they used the word right.

As I am a former M:TG player, and this term was used all the time, I don't feel this word has the same place like the "B" word does in starcraft. I like this definition the most.

Metagame (Greek: μέτα = “about”, “beyond”), literally "a game outside the game," is a prediction of how others will make decisions in a game based on their personality or their previous decisions. A metagame can exist in any game in which the opposition is human or portrays some sort of artificial intelligence and the competitors make choices. Metagaming is taking advantage of the metagame for purposes of winning more often.

http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Metagame



I agree, but the way some people use the word is hideous
I can only play starcraft when I am shit canned. IPXZERG is a god.
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
November 10 2011 17:24 GMT
#20
Meta game is the current trend, the flavor of the month, game shift,.....
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