On November 10 2011 13:01 Shel wrote: Yeah, there's more here then just the money he didn't pay out and the facts that point to poor planning. There's, what appears to be, Gus not sending YYJ and instead sending syckness. There's him not sending the 4 Cube players. There's general behavior in regards to Dox and his streamer, I think he owns KT productions (I don't remember the name), that points to a scamminess. He also held a qualifier for PPSL in-house, meaning only AZK and their friends were allowed to enter. I believe 6 spots in the tourney came from this qualifier.
As for the money, here's the list I know of:
Didn't pay the crew at the event Didn't pay a hotel bill that TGR paid instead Didn't pay Seltzers or Tasteless' hotel bill (they paid it themselves) Seltzer said it was $700 just for her. Didn't pay for the plane tickets Didn't pay the guy who did the streaming (KT productions?) Didn't pay back S2 the money they gave for the HoN event's prize pool
Given that he got the plane tickets in advance, and that the tickets for the Cube players would only have been $1000 or so, I'm thinking he deliberately didn't send them to the event. And since there clearly was money to send syckness, there clearly was money to send YYJ, even though Gus maintained there wasn't when YYJ asked him what was going on.
tickets for Cube players being $1000 ???? to fly from Cebu to Manila? you can get those flights for like $50 each from Cebu Pacific, which is a budget airline. Don't know about that...
domestic flights cant be that expensive so its highly gus deliberately denied their flights to give his teammates free walkovers in the group stages.
Actually, it can get pretty expensive, especially if you're buying tickets a few days before the event (which the Cube guys were thinking of doing but never pushed through with it since they suspected they wouldn't be reimbursed) but I think the actual amount owed is closer to half that (so around 500 USD), but I totally agree with your reason why gus never flew in the Cube members is for the free wins for his guys. ''/r
On November 11 2011 00:15 latan wrote: I bet he gambled his budget money away.
If IPL sponsored the event with 14k (7k immediatly and 7k are outstanding, but it seems the outstanding parts will not go to Gus, but rather be sued to reduce damage) and after paying out pricemoney, he is still left with 13k dept then he clearly spent more money, then he recieved.
For starters, I am/was azk. At least my tag has it.
Granted it is a huge sum of money but I really wouldn't go as far as to say he really stole the money. I would agree with the cutting corners, heck the PC lag and compatibility/driver issues that plagued the CPUs on day 1 were really something that should have never been an issue given that he was also an SC2 player knowledgeable with the spec requirements of the game itself. But I wouldn't go far to say he pocketed it, but rather he made too many promises to too many people and wanted too many things when there was clearly no funding even from the totality of the sponsors money. If you would just go by the logic of 14k from IPL as a major sponsor then we could gather from there that the remaining sponsors would dole out smaller amounts if they ever said they were going to.
I think this is more likely. Costs must have gotten way above his liquidity or his willingness to invest himself in the venture that he couldn't take care of everything. Ideally, when you take on a tournament or event like this, you should have the manpower and money to operate it together with the initial investment of your sponsors. You put in your own money as an investment, while your secondary payment should contain your profit. Budget must have been easily miscalculated or misappropriated. Some say he spent too much on having lunches or parties with the VIP's (casters and foreign players) but that should be part of the costing of a project like this, unless you are treating them right out of your pocket.
This tournament is a product of a pissing match with a local clan where the basis of success is on the scale of the events they produce. Now Gus really played it big. Flame me if you want, but don't you find it remarkable that he managed to make people agree to work with him to create PPSL. Name dropping is one thing, but to get to the big names like IGN/Mr Ting takes lots of guts and marketing skill. Asking them for money from a big corporation and big amounts for that matter is very difficult, else someone from Australia or Singapore should have been brave enough to take on the event. And if he lied to them, he managed to lie every step of the way to many people and he did it well because dots were connected when it was too late. A stupid man wouldn't have been able to pull it off, but a man blinded by arrogance and jealousy would, with haste to outdo everyone around him.
This need for fame and attention is his downfall. Making too many promises to too many people, hoping that everyone will say yes, without really considering the well-being of the people around him. Aiming too high without any backup machinery (funds and manpower) that would support his idea. Arrogance to not get help from people/organization who might have the capacity to help since he wants all the fame for himself and "his" clan. Now I guess it's getting into his pocket and saving his face is not worth it. Maybe he'll try the same approach in the next big game where nobody knows about this at a time nobody will ever care to warn them against him.
One must also not forget that this was an event by Team AZK and not just Gus. Granted they are also victims here but what happened during the planning stages is my question? Was there anything concrete in their meetings? Was there ever any official meetings or were they just eating/gaming/drinking sessions with light discussions of the event and a lot of fun times? See on my end, what I can't figure out is did they just really leave everything to Gus and trust that the almighty Gus would pull through for them with this big of an event with their name on the line? I feel sorry they had to shoulder everything and endure the hardships but let's face it, they were also part of the planning. The event was powered by Team AZK, not just Gus Ledesma so what happened?
As part of azk, members can only do so much if you don't have the funds. Making posters, creating hype in facebook, putting up material for the site are things that members are willing to do for free on our free time for the love of the game. Once cash becomes an issue, most, if not the rest of us are not involved. Big decisions and transactions will require cash, and with Gus holding on to it, he had to make the deals. As for planning, he ordered, people followed. Try to do it your way, you get scolded (wow sc2 is so fun). So please dont blameflame the other members. We don't deserve it. And to the SEA community, I hope you dont make our gaming experience for the members that have the tag, specially those who staffed until the end, they are heroes of this community, managing to pull of content at times there was no leader to turn to.
Members came into azk at different points in time. I joined azk in its early stages when it was getting anyone simply to have members. I joined by virtue of wanting to connect with other pinoy gamers and a sense of belonging. With that, I thought that the clan was for fun. Add me to the idiots who believed him. Later selection became more strict, either you have to be master, GM or has something to contribute to the events, to increase the hype of the clan. I dont know what he promised these guys but somehow he did get some good local players and even koreans (here in the philippines) to join the ranks. So when there was an event planned, I helped out, when I can, with the things that I can do. If I didn't have the time, I didn't. So again, please be critical of those whom you witchhunt.
In the end, I hope this is something we could grow from as a community. I don't know if this will hurt e-sports, I'm sure learning from it will make it better. My two cents.
So it really seems like once Gus saw that IPL was interested, he ended up focusing more on things like flying Tasteosis and other high profile players to the event that he neglected the fact that he was still in charge of (what was supposed to be mainly) a local event in the Philippines.
From what I recall, the PPSL was going to happen whether or not IPL actually sponsored them as according to their follow up message about the situation. This means that a lot of the things like the hardware and production value were most likely already paid for even without IPL's money, albeit it probably wasn't too much to begin with since it was meant to just be a local event with a few people from abroad anyways. After all, computers dont just come out of thin air, but improving them should have been the first priority for Gus if he intended to imitate IPL standards. I really dont think he stole any money, but rather spent it irresponsibly on getting as much high profile players/casters as possible that he overlooked all the simple stuff (stream, computers, etc).
Still doesn't excuse denying players their flights over here though. Sick.
Granted it is a huge sum of money but I really wouldn't go as far as to say he really stole the money. I would agree with the cutting corners, heck the PC lag and compatibility/driver issues that plagued the CPUs on day 1 were really something that should have never been an issue given that he was also an SC2 player knowledgeable with the spec requirements of the game itself. But I wouldn't go far to say he pocketed it, but rather he made too many promises to too many people and wanted too many things when there was clearly no funding even from the totality of the sponsors money. If you would just go by the logic of 14k from IPL as a major sponsor then we could gather from there that the remaining sponsors would dole out smaller amounts if they ever said they were going to.
I think this is more likely. Costs must have gotten way above his liquidity or his willingness to invest himself in the venture that he couldn't take care of everything. Ideally, when you take on a tournament or event like this, you should have the manpower and money to operate it together with the initial investment of your sponsors. You put in your own money as an investment, while your secondary payment should contain your profit. Budget must have been easily miscalculated or misappropriated. Some say he spent too much on having lunches or parties with the VIP's (casters and foreign players) but that should be part of the costing of a project like this, unless you are treating them right out of your pocket.
This tournament is a product of a pissing match with a local clan where the basis of success is on the scale of the events they produce. Now Gus really played it big. Flame me if you want, but don't you find it remarkable that he managed to make people agree to work with him to create PPSL. Name dropping is one thing, but to get to the big names like IGN/Mr Ting takes lots of guts and marketing skill. Asking them for money from a big corporation and big amounts for that matter is very difficult, else someone from Australia or Singapore should have been brave enough to take on the event. And if he lied to them, he managed to lie every step of the way to many people and he did it well because dots were connected when it was too late. A stupid man wouldn't have been able to pull it off, but a man blinded by arrogance and jealousy would, with haste to outdo everyone around him.
This need for fame and attention is his downfall. Making too many promises to too many people, hoping that everyone will say yes, without really considering the well-being of the people around him. Aiming too high without any backup machinery (funds and manpower) that would support his idea. Arrogance to not get help from people/organization who might have the capacity to help since he wants all the fame for himself and "his" clan. Now I guess it's getting into his pocket and saving his face is not worth it. Maybe he'll try the same approach in the next big game where nobody knows about this at a time nobody will ever care to warn them against him.
One must also not forget that this was an event by Team AZK and not just Gus. Granted they are also victims here but what happened during the planning stages is my question? Was there anything concrete in their meetings? Was there ever any official meetings or were they just eating/gaming/drinking sessions with light discussions of the event and a lot of fun times? See on my end, what I can't figure out is did they just really leave everything to Gus and trust that the almighty Gus would pull through for them with this big of an event with their name on the line? I feel sorry they had to shoulder everything and endure the hardships but let's face it, they were also part of the planning. The event was powered by Team AZK, not just Gus Ledesma so what happened?
As part of azk, members can only do so much if you don't have the funds. Making posters, creating hype in facebook, putting up material for the site are things that members are willing to do for free on our free time for the love of the game. Once cash becomes an issue, most, if not the rest of us are not involved. Big decisions and transactions will require cash, and with Gus holding on to it, he had to make the deals. As for planning, he ordered, people followed. Try to do it your way, you get scolded (wow sc2 is so fun). So please dont blameflame the other members. We don't deserve it. And to the SEA community, I hope you dont make our gaming experience for the members that have the tag, specially those who staffed until the end, they are heroes of this community, managing to pull of content at times there was no leader to turn to.
Members came into azk at different points in time. I joined azk in its early stages when it was getting anyone simply to have members. I joined by virtue of wanting to connect with other pinoy gamers and a sense of belonging. With that, I thought that the clan was for fun. Add me to the idiots who believed him. Later selection became more strict, either you have to be master, GM or has something to contribute to the events, to increase the hype of the clan. I dont know what he promised these guys but somehow he did get some good local players and even koreans (here in the philippines) to join the ranks. So when there was an event planned, I helped out, when I can, with the things that I can do. If I didn't have the time, I didn't. So again, please be critical of those whom you witchhunt.
In the end, I hope this is something we could grow from as a community. I don't know if this will hurt e-sports, I'm sure learning from it will make it better. My two cents.
Sorry if I sounded like marking Team AZK as a whole but you have to understand this was first and foremost a Team AZK led event, Also, I have yet to find an official Team AZK statement up until this point. (I sometimes peek at PPSL or teamazk.com if ever the team's other leaders prepared a statement/detailed history of events?)
I understand that majority of Team AZK are victims and have contributed to make the best out of a very bad situation (For free and paid out of their own pockets). But just to clarify, so Team AZK really did just put everything on Gus and listened to him all throughout and no one asked about details, itenerary, confirmations, arrangement etc because he reprimanded anyone who asked or questioned anything? Because if so then Gus is Team AZK and Team AZK owned/controlled by Gus in that scenario. Am I close to the reality of it?
EDIT: It's kind of like the boss of a company F-cking up. Say Enron. Their bosses F-cked up so the responsibility of the company (Enron in this scenario) doesn't simply vanish just because it was the bosses that f-cked up. In this case, the problem I can gather so far is that it appears as though everything was left/entrusted to Gus which should have never been the case. See, other people seem to this the responsible party in a "next in line" type of scenario is IPL but I do not agree as I believe they are first and foremost solely just a sponsor as per their statement, not a partner in organizing the event.
I would also put it this way, Gus is part of Team AZK (as a manager/head/owner or whatever) and when IPL/IGN was talking to them, they were talking with Gus but not just Gus alone but rather with the whole team behind him. It is therefore my understanding there are those of AZK who are in the same level with Gus (in terms of heirarchy) who should have done something more proactively rather than rely on Gus as it affects not only him but Team AZK as a whole. To put it bluntly, the team itself didn't have any checks and balances in place to ensure that the event would be as smooth as they could possibly make it and that the "books" (money) was in order.
Sorry if I sounded like marking Team AZK as a whole but you have to understand this was first and foremost a Team AZK led event, Also, I have yet to find an official Team AZK statement up until this point. (I sometimes peek at PPSL or teamazk.com if ever the team's other leaders prepared a statement/detailed history of events?)
I understand that majority of Team AZK are victims and have contributed to make the best out of a very bad situation (For free and paid out of their own pockets). But just to clarify, so Team AZK really did just put everything on Gus and listened to him all throughout and no one asked about details, itenerary, confirmations, arrangement etc because he reprimanded anyone who asked or questioned anything? Because if so then Gus is Team AZK and Team AZK owned/controlled by Gus in that scenario. Am I close to the reality of it?
EDIT: It's kind of like the boss of a company F-cking up. Say Enron. Their bosses F-cked up so the responsibility of the company (Enron in this scenario) doesn't simply vanish just because it was the bosses that f-cked up. In this case, the problem I can gather so far is that it appears as though everything was left/entrusted to Gus which should have never been the case. See, other people seem to this the responsible party in a "next in line" type of scenario is IPL but I do not agree as I believe they are first and foremost solely just a sponsor as per their statement, not a partner in organizing the event.
I would also put it this way, Gus is part of Team AZK (as a manager/head/owner or whatever) and when IPL/IGN was talking to them, they were talking with Gus but not just Gus alone but rather with the whole team behind him. It is therefore my understanding there are those of AZK who are in the same level with Gus (in terms of heirarchy) who should have done something more proactively rather than rely on Gus as it affects not only him but Team AZK as a whole.
This is how I view it.
Uh, sure everything relied on him, being the owner of the team? You are comparing apples to oranges, when putting teams on the same line as full-fleshed corporations. It doesn't work that way. If EG fucks up, it's Alex Garfield first and foremost- not DeMusLim or whichever player. If coL fucks up, it's Jason Lake. There is no multi-level chain of command, no administrative board, no shared privileges.
Team AZK is affected by the actions of one of their individuals, because that is how teams work. But that doesn't mean there had to be distributed power and responsibility within the organization.
Granted it is a huge sum of money but I really wouldn't go as far as to say he really stole the money. I would agree with the cutting corners, heck the PC lag and compatibility/driver issues that plagued the CPUs on day 1 were really something that should have never been an issue given that he was also an SC2 player knowledgeable with the spec requirements of the game itself. But I wouldn't go far to say he pocketed it, but rather he made too many promises to too many people and wanted too many things when there was clearly no funding even from the totality of the sponsors money. If you would just go by the logic of 14k from IPL as a major sponsor then we could gather from there that the remaining sponsors would dole out smaller amounts if they ever said they were going to.
I think this is more likely. Costs must have gotten way above his liquidity or his willingness to invest himself in the venture that he couldn't take care of everything. Ideally, when you take on a tournament or event like this, you should have the manpower and money to operate it together with the initial investment of your sponsors. You put in your own money as an investment, while your secondary payment should contain your profit. Budget must have been easily miscalculated or misappropriated. Some say he spent too much on having lunches or parties with the VIP's (casters and foreign players) but that should be part of the costing of a project like this, unless you are treating them right out of your pocket.
This tournament is a product of a pissing match with a local clan where the basis of success is on the scale of the events they produce. Now Gus really played it big. Flame me if you want, but don't you find it remarkable that he managed to make people agree to work with him to create PPSL. Name dropping is one thing, but to get to the big names like IGN/Mr Ting takes lots of guts and marketing skill. Asking them for money from a big corporation and big amounts for that matter is very difficult, else someone from Australia or Singapore should have been brave enough to take on the event. And if he lied to them, he managed to lie every step of the way to many people and he did it well because dots were connected when it was too late. A stupid man wouldn't have been able to pull it off, but a man blinded by arrogance and jealousy would, with haste to outdo everyone around him.
This need for fame and attention is his downfall. Making too many promises to too many people, hoping that everyone will say yes, without really considering the well-being of the people around him. Aiming too high without any backup machinery (funds and manpower) that would support his idea. Arrogance to not get help from people/organization who might have the capacity to help since he wants all the fame for himself and "his" clan. Now I guess it's getting into his pocket and saving his face is not worth it. Maybe he'll try the same approach in the next big game where nobody knows about this at a time nobody will ever care to warn them against him.
One must also not forget that this was an event by Team AZK and not just Gus. Granted they are also victims here but what happened during the planning stages is my question? Was there anything concrete in their meetings? Was there ever any official meetings or were they just eating/gaming/drinking sessions with light discussions of the event and a lot of fun times? See on my end, what I can't figure out is did they just really leave everything to Gus and trust that the almighty Gus would pull through for them with this big of an event with their name on the line? I feel sorry they had to shoulder everything and endure the hardships but let's face it, they were also part of the planning. The event was powered by Team AZK, not just Gus Ledesma so what happened?
As part of azk, members can only do so much if you don't have the funds. Making posters, creating hype in facebook, putting up material for the site are things that members are willing to do for free on our free time for the love of the game. Once cash becomes an issue, most, if not the rest of us are not involved. Big decisions and transactions will require cash, and with Gus holding on to it, he had to make the deals. As for planning, he ordered, people followed. Try to do it your way, you get scolded (wow sc2 is so fun). So please dont blameflame the other members. We don't deserve it. And to the SEA community, I hope you dont make our gaming experience for the members that have the tag, specially those who staffed until the end, they are heroes of this community, managing to pull of content at times there was no leader to turn to.
Members came into azk at different points in time. I joined azk in its early stages when it was getting anyone simply to have members. I joined by virtue of wanting to connect with other pinoy gamers and a sense of belonging. With that, I thought that the clan was for fun. Add me to the idiots who believed him. Later selection became more strict, either you have to be master, GM or has something to contribute to the events, to increase the hype of the clan. I dont know what he promised these guys but somehow he did get some good local players and even koreans (here in the philippines) to join the ranks. So when there was an event planned, I helped out, when I can, with the things that I can do. If I didn't have the time, I didn't. So again, please be critical of those whom you witchhunt.
In the end, I hope this is something we could grow from as a community. I don't know if this will hurt e-sports, I'm sure learning from it will make it better. My two cents.
Sorry if I sounded like marking Team AZK as a whole but you have to understand this was first and foremost a Team AZK led event, Also, I have yet to find an official Team AZK statement up until this point. (I sometimes peek at PPSL or teamazk.com if ever the team's other leaders prepared a statement/detailed history of events?)
I understand that majority of Team AZK are victims and have contributed to make the best out of a very bad situation (For free and paid out of their own pockets). But just to clarify, so Team AZK really did just put everything on Gus and listened to him all throughout and no one asked about details, itenerary, confirmations, arrangement etc because he reprimanded anyone who asked or questioned anything? Because if so then Gus is Team AZK and Team AZK owned/controlled by Gus in that scenario. Am I close to the reality of it?
After the violet as part of team azk thing was announced, they were firm about everything that will be released will pass thru/approved by them. Anyone that doesnt will get removed from the group (group as in a facebook group with updates on what is happening in the clan). Shallow as it may be, imagine having a tag and not belonging to the group. It's a sad thought to carry a name that doesnt recognize you. At some point they threatened to remove anyone who wasnt contributing to the event, so I decided to leave then since this was the mentality I hated back in war3. Well now, it's worse having a tarnished name but we can't do anything about it. Sponsors' money was handled by him. There are stories about him getting angry everytime members ask about money and sponsors, so how do you expect other members to move or make decisions.
Sorry if I sounded like marking Team AZK as a whole but you have to understand this was first and foremost a Team AZK led event, Also, I have yet to find an official Team AZK statement up until this point. (I sometimes peek at PPSL or teamazk.com if ever the team's other leaders prepared a statement/detailed history of events?)
I understand that majority of Team AZK are victims and have contributed to make the best out of a very bad situation (For free and paid out of their own pockets). But just to clarify, so Team AZK really did just put everything on Gus and listened to him all throughout and no one asked about details, itenerary, confirmations, arrangement etc because he reprimanded anyone who asked or questioned anything? Because if so then Gus is Team AZK and Team AZK owned/controlled by Gus in that scenario. Am I close to the reality of it?
EDIT: It's kind of like the boss of a company F-cking up. Say Enron. Their bosses F-cked up so the responsibility of the company (Enron in this scenario) doesn't simply vanish just because it was the bosses that f-cked up. In this case, the problem I can gather so far is that it appears as though everything was left/entrusted to Gus which should have never been the case. See, other people seem to this the responsible party in a "next in line" type of scenario is IPL but I do not agree as I believe they are first and foremost solely just a sponsor as per their statement, not a partner in organizing the event.
I would also put it this way, Gus is part of Team AZK (as a manager/head/owner or whatever) and when IPL/IGN was talking to them, they were talking with Gus but not just Gus alone but rather with the whole team behind him. It is therefore my understanding there are those of AZK who are in the same level with Gus (in terms of heirarchy) who should have done something more proactively rather than rely on Gus as it affects not only him but Team AZK as a whole.
This is how I view it.
Uh, sure everything relied on him, being the owner of the team? You are comparing apples to oranges, when putting teams on the same line as full-fleshed corporations. It doesn't work that way. If EG fucks up, it's Alex Garfield first and foremost- not DeMusLim or whichever player. If coL fucks up, it's Jason Lake. There is no multi-level chain of command, no administrative board, no shared privileges.
Team AZK is affected by the actions of one of their individuals, because that is how teams work. But that doesn't mean there had to be distributed power and responsibility within the organization.
I think a team like TL would be a better comparison with regards to this situation. Since "messing up" in this case is not really about the team, as in the competitive team consisting of players, but more of their tournament admin/organizing team. Like in case TSL messes up; I think DEPENDING ON THE CASE, you can't just put all the blame on Nazgul 100% of the time. Tho in this case i agree that almost all the blame should be directed to Gus, your above example would be comparing apples and oranges as well.
Granted it is a huge sum of money but I really wouldn't go as far as to say he really stole the money. I would agree with the cutting corners, heck the PC lag and compatibility/driver issues that plagued the CPUs on day 1 were really something that should have never been an issue given that he was also an SC2 player knowledgeable with the spec requirements of the game itself. But I wouldn't go far to say he pocketed it, but rather he made too many promises to too many people and wanted too many things when there was clearly no funding even from the totality of the sponsors money. If you would just go by the logic of 14k from IPL as a major sponsor then we could gather from there that the remaining sponsors would dole out smaller amounts if they ever said they were going to.
I think this is more likely. Costs must have gotten way above his liquidity or his willingness to invest himself in the venture that he couldn't take care of everything. Ideally, when you take on a tournament or event like this, you should have the manpower and money to operate it together with the initial investment of your sponsors. You put in your own money as an investment, while your secondary payment should contain your profit. Budget must have been easily miscalculated or misappropriated. Some say he spent too much on having lunches or parties with the VIP's (casters and foreign players) but that should be part of the costing of a project like this, unless you are treating them right out of your pocket.
This tournament is a product of a pissing match with a local clan where the basis of success is on the scale of the events they produce. Now Gus really played it big. Flame me if you want, but don't you find it remarkable that he managed to make people agree to work with him to create PPSL. Name dropping is one thing, but to get to the big names like IGN/Mr Ting takes lots of guts and marketing skill. Asking them for money from a big corporation and big amounts for that matter is very difficult, else someone from Australia or Singapore should have been brave enough to take on the event. And if he lied to them, he managed to lie every step of the way to many people and he did it well because dots were connected when it was too late. A stupid man wouldn't have been able to pull it off, but a man blinded by arrogance and jealousy would, with haste to outdo everyone around him.
This need for fame and attention is his downfall. Making too many promises to too many people, hoping that everyone will say yes, without really considering the well-being of the people around him. Aiming too high without any backup machinery (funds and manpower) that would support his idea. Arrogance to not get help from people/organization who might have the capacity to help since he wants all the fame for himself and "his" clan. Now I guess it's getting into his pocket and saving his face is not worth it. Maybe he'll try the same approach in the next big game where nobody knows about this at a time nobody will ever care to warn them against him.
One must also not forget that this was an event by Team AZK and not just Gus. Granted they are also victims here but what happened during the planning stages is my question? Was there anything concrete in their meetings? Was there ever any official meetings or were they just eating/gaming/drinking sessions with light discussions of the event and a lot of fun times? See on my end, what I can't figure out is did they just really leave everything to Gus and trust that the almighty Gus would pull through for them with this big of an event with their name on the line? I feel sorry they had to shoulder everything and endure the hardships but let's face it, they were also part of the planning. The event was powered by Team AZK, not just Gus Ledesma so what happened?
As part of azk, members can only do so much if you don't have the funds. Making posters, creating hype in facebook, putting up material for the site are things that members are willing to do for free on our free time for the love of the game. Once cash becomes an issue, most, if not the rest of us are not involved. Big decisions and transactions will require cash, and with Gus holding on to it, he had to make the deals. As for planning, he ordered, people followed. Try to do it your way, you get scolded (wow sc2 is so fun). So please dont blameflame the other members. We don't deserve it. And to the SEA community, I hope you dont make our gaming experience for the members that have the tag, specially those who staffed until the end, they are heroes of this community, managing to pull of content at times there was no leader to turn to.
Members came into azk at different points in time. I joined azk in its early stages when it was getting anyone simply to have members. I joined by virtue of wanting to connect with other pinoy gamers and a sense of belonging. With that, I thought that the clan was for fun. Add me to the idiots who believed him. Later selection became more strict, either you have to be master, GM or has something to contribute to the events, to increase the hype of the clan. I dont know what he promised these guys but somehow he did get some good local players and even koreans (here in the philippines) to join the ranks. So when there was an event planned, I helped out, when I can, with the things that I can do. If I didn't have the time, I didn't. So again, please be critical of those whom you witchhunt.
In the end, I hope this is something we could grow from as a community. I don't know if this will hurt e-sports, I'm sure learning from it will make it better. My two cents.
Sorry if I sounded like marking Team AZK as a whole but you have to understand this was first and foremost a Team AZK led event, Also, I have yet to find an official Team AZK statement up until this point. (I sometimes peek at PPSL or teamazk.com if ever the team's other leaders prepared a statement/detailed history of events?)
I understand that majority of Team AZK are victims and have contributed to make the best out of a very bad situation (For free and paid out of their own pockets). But just to clarify, so Team AZK really did just put everything on Gus and listened to him all throughout and no one asked about details, itenerary, confirmations, arrangement etc because he reprimanded anyone who asked or questioned anything? Because if so then Gus is Team AZK and Team AZK owned/controlled by Gus in that scenario. Am I close to the reality of it?
After the violet as part of team azk thing was announced, they were firm about everything that will be released will pass thru/approved by them. Anyone that doesnt will get removed from the group (group as in a facebook group with updates on what is happening in the clan). Shallow as it may be, imagine having a tag and not belonging to the group. It's a sad thought to carry a name that doesnt recognize you. At some point they threatened to remove anyone who wasnt contributing to the event, so I decided to leave then since this was the mentality I hated back in war3. Well now, it's worse having a tarnished name but we can't do anything about it. Sponsors' money was handled by him. There are stories about him getting angry everytime members ask about money and sponsors, so how do you expect other members to move or make decisions.
The statement you said is THEM. So who else is there other than Gus that is the lead of the clan/team in general for Team AZK.
Yup, it's true he could do that but in this type of thing wherein it is "your clan" that is supposed to be working on it, other people should serve as check and balance as a separate person, roles assigned, if not by him then someone else high up in the ladder of Team AZK. If he takes it against anyone or the team for organizing themselves, then shouldn't someone have called him out on it? Or as a stop gap measure found a way to ask for help. Granted Team AZK's persons might not have direct access to IPL/IGN so what could help in serving as a guide in how going about the event should have been? Well, swallowing pride for one and asking Mineski for a guide maybe since they were planning and doing work for PGF. (I am stating this as a measure that could have been done by Team AZK, no one in particular, given the warning signs of someone playing God mode and supposedly being the one with all the facts, contacts etc.) I mean assuming there were no hiccups, what if he got sick on the day leading up to it? Then it would have also crashed as well as "leadership" wasn't there also because he had all the data to begin with.
Granted it is a huge sum of money but I really wouldn't go as far as to say he really stole the money. I would agree with the cutting corners, heck the PC lag and compatibility/driver issues that plagued the CPUs on day 1 were really something that should have never been an issue given that he was also an SC2 player knowledgeable with the spec requirements of the game itself. But I wouldn't go far to say he pocketed it, but rather he made too many promises to too many people and wanted too many things when there was clearly no funding even from the totality of the sponsors money. If you would just go by the logic of 14k from IPL as a major sponsor then we could gather from there that the remaining sponsors would dole out smaller amounts if they ever said they were going to.
I think this is more likely. Costs must have gotten way above his liquidity or his willingness to invest himself in the venture that he couldn't take care of everything. Ideally, when you take on a tournament or event like this, you should have the manpower and money to operate it together with the initial investment of your sponsors. You put in your own money as an investment, while your secondary payment should contain your profit. Budget must have been easily miscalculated or misappropriated. Some say he spent too much on having lunches or parties with the VIP's (casters and foreign players) but that should be part of the costing of a project like this, unless you are treating them right out of your pocket.
This tournament is a product of a pissing match with a local clan where the basis of success is on the scale of the events they produce. Now Gus really played it big. Flame me if you want, but don't you find it remarkable that he managed to make people agree to work with him to create PPSL. Name dropping is one thing, but to get to the big names like IGN/Mr Ting takes lots of guts and marketing skill. Asking them for money from a big corporation and big amounts for that matter is very difficult, else someone from Australia or Singapore should have been brave enough to take on the event. And if he lied to them, he managed to lie every step of the way to many people and he did it well because dots were connected when it was too late. A stupid man wouldn't have been able to pull it off, but a man blinded by arrogance and jealousy would, with haste to outdo everyone around him.
This need for fame and attention is his downfall. Making too many promises to too many people, hoping that everyone will say yes, without really considering the well-being of the people around him. Aiming too high without any backup machinery (funds and manpower) that would support his idea. Arrogance to not get help from people/organization who might have the capacity to help since he wants all the fame for himself and "his" clan. Now I guess it's getting into his pocket and saving his face is not worth it. Maybe he'll try the same approach in the next big game where nobody knows about this at a time nobody will ever care to warn them against him.
One must also not forget that this was an event by Team AZK and not just Gus. Granted they are also victims here but what happened during the planning stages is my question? Was there anything concrete in their meetings? Was there ever any official meetings or were they just eating/gaming/drinking sessions with light discussions of the event and a lot of fun times? See on my end, what I can't figure out is did they just really leave everything to Gus and trust that the almighty Gus would pull through for them with this big of an event with their name on the line? I feel sorry they had to shoulder everything and endure the hardships but let's face it, they were also part of the planning. The event was powered by Team AZK, not just Gus Ledesma so what happened?
As part of azk, members can only do so much if you don't have the funds. Making posters, creating hype in facebook, putting up material for the site are things that members are willing to do for free on our free time for the love of the game. Once cash becomes an issue, most, if not the rest of us are not involved. Big decisions and transactions will require cash, and with Gus holding on to it, he had to make the deals. As for planning, he ordered, people followed. Try to do it your way, you get scolded (wow sc2 is so fun). So please dont blameflame the other members. We don't deserve it. And to the SEA community, I hope you dont make our gaming experience for the members that have the tag, specially those who staffed until the end, they are heroes of this community, managing to pull of content at times there was no leader to turn to.
Members came into azk at different points in time. I joined azk in its early stages when it was getting anyone simply to have members. I joined by virtue of wanting to connect with other pinoy gamers and a sense of belonging. With that, I thought that the clan was for fun. Add me to the idiots who believed him. Later selection became more strict, either you have to be master, GM or has something to contribute to the events, to increase the hype of the clan. I dont know what he promised these guys but somehow he did get some good local players and even koreans (here in the philippines) to join the ranks. So when there was an event planned, I helped out, when I can, with the things that I can do. If I didn't have the time, I didn't. So again, please be critical of those whom you witchhunt.
In the end, I hope this is something we could grow from as a community. I don't know if this will hurt e-sports, I'm sure learning from it will make it better. My two cents.
Sorry if I sounded like marking Team AZK as a whole but you have to understand this was first and foremost a Team AZK led event, Also, I have yet to find an official Team AZK statement up until this point. (I sometimes peek at PPSL or teamazk.com if ever the team's other leaders prepared a statement/detailed history of events?)
I understand that majority of Team AZK are victims and have contributed to make the best out of a very bad situation (For free and paid out of their own pockets). But just to clarify, so Team AZK really did just put everything on Gus and listened to him all throughout and no one asked about details, itenerary, confirmations, arrangement etc because he reprimanded anyone who asked or questioned anything? Because if so then Gus is Team AZK and Team AZK owned/controlled by Gus in that scenario. Am I close to the reality of it?
After the violet as part of team azk thing was announced, they were firm about everything that will be released will pass thru/approved by them. Anyone that doesnt will get removed from the group (group as in a facebook group with updates on what is happening in the clan). Shallow as it may be, imagine having a tag and not belonging to the group. It's a sad thought to carry a name that doesnt recognize you. At some point they threatened to remove anyone who wasnt contributing to the event, so I decided to leave then since this was the mentality I hated back in war3. Well now, it's worse having a tarnished name but we can't do anything about it. Sponsors' money was handled by him. There are stories about him getting angry everytime members ask about money and sponsors, so how do you expect other members to move or make decisions.
Based on a lot of the statements made during this entire incident and based on how you described Gus, I would say partly why some people feel the rest of the team is at least partially responsible. From an outsider perspective; its seems like a lot of members are not to fond of Gus, but remain in the team because of (aside from friends made within the team) the potential glory promised. Lets be honest, if this turned out to be the most awesome event ever; team AZK would be no doubt the most publicized/popular team from SEA. It looks like a group of people following blindly just because they want a piece of the pie at the end.
I'm not hating or putting any blame on the rest of the team, I'm saying that's how it looks like; so expect at least a little bit of incoming hate. I would actually strongly suggest the rest of the team to reform and rebrand, at this point I think reputation is way more important the the existing sponsors you would lose.
Sorry if I sounded like marking Team AZK as a whole but you have to understand this was first and foremost a Team AZK led event, Also, I have yet to find an official Team AZK statement up until this point. (I sometimes peek at PPSL or teamazk.com if ever the team's other leaders prepared a statement/detailed history of events?)
I understand that majority of Team AZK are victims and have contributed to make the best out of a very bad situation (For free and paid out of their own pockets). But just to clarify, so Team AZK really did just put everything on Gus and listened to him all throughout and no one asked about details, itenerary, confirmations, arrangement etc because he reprimanded anyone who asked or questioned anything? Because if so then Gus is Team AZK and Team AZK owned/controlled by Gus in that scenario. Am I close to the reality of it?
EDIT: It's kind of like the boss of a company F-cking up. Say Enron. Their bosses F-cked up so the responsibility of the company (Enron in this scenario) doesn't simply vanish just because it was the bosses that f-cked up. In this case, the problem I can gather so far is that it appears as though everything was left/entrusted to Gus which should have never been the case. See, other people seem to this the responsible party in a "next in line" type of scenario is IPL but I do not agree as I believe they are first and foremost solely just a sponsor as per their statement, not a partner in organizing the event.
I would also put it this way, Gus is part of Team AZK (as a manager/head/owner or whatever) and when IPL/IGN was talking to them, they were talking with Gus but not just Gus alone but rather with the whole team behind him. It is therefore my understanding there are those of AZK who are in the same level with Gus (in terms of heirarchy) who should have done something more proactively rather than rely on Gus as it affects not only him but Team AZK as a whole.
This is how I view it.
Uh, sure everything relied on him, being the owner of the team? You are comparing apples to oranges, when putting teams on the same line as full-fleshed corporations. It doesn't work that way. If EG fucks up, it's Alex Garfield first and foremost- not DeMusLim or whichever player. If coL fucks up, it's Jason Lake. There is no multi-level chain of command, no administrative board, no shared privileges.
Team AZK is affected by the actions of one of their individuals, because that is how teams work. But that doesn't mean there had to be distributed power and responsibility within the organization.
I dont mean to be rude but see we are talking about a supposedly team run event meaning not just one guy. Granted it is a lead role/face of the team that fronts for them. And yes you are right, EG is to Alex Garfield and Jason Lake to coL. But if they were to do an event, are they going to do it alone? An event of that magnitude?
I am not saying the players should take the heat, but in a team you should have some form of organization or heirarchy. And in this case, there were players made into staff/ushers but there were also team members (not necessarily players) that should have been assigned to the event committee. And event of the proposed magnitude from the very beginning should have an internal committee wouldn't you agree? So was there? That is what I am trying to ask/figure out.
If there wasn't, why wasn't there any? No one from Team AZK's upper echelon bother with it cause they can't be bothered with it? Then that would mean that Team AZK really did just put all the eggs in one basket and that basket is Gus and practically broke every single egg.
Team AZK members are victims, I agree with that. With what they had to go through, it would be difficult and I know they did it for the love of e-sports. But you have to also take into account, what did the Team do before the event, during the planning stages? As it drew close? Who did what etc?
It's a Team event and Gus fucked it up, but what exactly did the rest of the upper echelon do during those times? They just sat there and said "O Gus, great idea! We leave it all to you to make it work but don't forget this is a Team AZK event."
The members who got burned are already leaving the Team and that's okay but still, you have to know what role did members of the team do from planning to inception to execution?
An event needs a committee, therefore if they didn't have it, why didn't they? When it is pertained "THEY" silence those who ask within the group or threaten being dropped, who is THEY? These, I believe are also legitimate questions. Gus ain't pulling all the strings in Team AZK every single moment, so who else?
There was another that was firm in the information lockdown regarding. Can I leave it at that? Is your intention to add another name to the witchhunt? I'm not gonna fuel it. As for the non-contributors being out, I only remember gus saying so, upon seeing it I left the azk group with internal updates.
As for the glory part, true I will hold the name, but if I'm out because I'm not useful anymore, it kinda cancels out. With what happened, we have no choice but have a big nazi emblem on our foreheads everytime we play.
On November 10 2011 17:14 Sky101 wrote: *sigh* seriously, nobody is doubting these claims of what Gus' done. What I said, if you guys read carefully, was how I believed his intention wasn't to swindle money. Rather, in my opinion, it was just manipulation, lying, cheating, boasting, etc... because he is simply a dumb kid, who fucked up big time with this event.
Let's think about it for a second.
Why did he not want to fly YJY and the other dudes over? Err, maybe because he wants to steal YJY's spot and give it to someone he wants to? And the other dudes were facing AZK members, so why take the chance? Make up excuses so his team can receive walkovers.
The money he owes to everyone was "probably" (that's why I hate to include this because I don't know where exactly he spent this money on, but neither do any of us really) spent on production, trying to make this event as big as possible so that he can boast about it later.
So since I don't know WHY he did what he did, I'm not gonna accuse him of anything just yet. I do, however, have an opinion on his character, and it isn't very favorable (duh!) and explicit (#$%!), but I'm not gonna accuse him of anything just yet because I don't want to assume why he did what he did. My thoughts written above are just thoughts on the other side of a coin, they're not valid to be used as evidences to support any argument, which is why I'm not gonna use it. Rather, I want to sit back and wait for everything to unfold before I come to a conclusion.
Update as of LO3 E94 Gunrun is down $900. Seltzer says she and Tasteless didn't get paid (~$700) Amanda is down $12,000 S2 is down $2,000
I'm sure it wasn't his intention to shaft these people out of money either. Whether you call it swindling, cheating, spending it on production, being a dumb kid; it's all semantics. The fact remains he misappropriated funds. People that should have been paid were not. It may not have been his intention to set out to do any of these things, but he did do them. His intentions are irrelevant and why he did it is unimportant. It's his actions that matter. He may not have intended it but in the end, people got scammed due to his actions.
Gus was given an opportunity to speak his side on Live On Three. He didn't show. His excuse, 'couldn't get a mic'. Being the organizer of an event that had mics and headsets but still couldn't get a mic, call me skeptical. With notable community members speaking out, evidence is mounting against him.
He has a Mac Book Pro. It has a built-in microphone. He is outright lying, right?
On November 11 2011 02:12 hyperglass wrote: There was another that was firm in the information lockdown regarding. Can I leave it at that? Is your intention to add another name to the witchhunt? I'm not gonna fuel it. As for the non-contributors being out, I only remember gus saying so, upon seeing it I left the azk group with internal updates.
Nope. Dont add a name. Buy what i want to put out there is gus most likely has an accomplice within thr upper echelons of team azk. Yes you cn leave it at that. Because i want to point out that there is still no official team azk statement up to present which also bothers me.
Granted the scope is focused on gus but it makes me wonder, is someone else avoiding this whole thing with nothing besmirched othrr than a 'former clan association'.
I actually have a messed up scenario in mind if ppl care to listen. Gus has a close trusted friend in azk. Thy 'help' each other out by being having each others back when one raises a point, the other supports. Shit went down. This 'accomplice' knows of the lacking funds, initiates a vip ticket sale to boost revenue and tells gus we'll find a way to settle the finances and earn a profit after everything.
Numbers come out, sponsor pulled out suddenly the accomplice bails on gus. Reason why gus cant tell the whole account and avoids interviews is he cant complete the story without including the accomplice. He fears if he does that he can expect no help in bailing him out and opts out of the interview by making excuse. The accomplice washes himself of gus and he whole team azk disbands and gus is left with all the blame while the accomploce gets away scott free and has another future chance of repeating the same travesty of deeds again.
Im just saying this is alo entirely plausible as in the phil culture, you tend not to rat out family or friends no .matter what they did but also that family or friends can still screw you over when they abuse that trait and you still wouldnt rat them out as long as you could to maybe fix it.
On November 11 2011 02:33 HackBenjamin wrote: Speculations and assumptions. As infuriating as it is to sit here and wait, it's probably best not to do this as it only fuels the fire.
The truth WILL come out, I'm sure of this. Let's not make it any worse by guessing...
Agreed, I would love to hear what happened to his iphone4S/webcam on computer soon
On November 11 2011 02:33 HackBenjamin wrote: Speculations and assumptions. As infuriating as it is to sit here and wait, it's probably best not to do this as it only fuels the fire.
The truth WILL come out, I'm sure of this. Let's not make it any worse by guessing...
I understand this and i really hesitated as much as i could. But i needed an example to at least explain to say that we maybe forgetting someone or pushing everything just on gus. Remember team azk as the core group or as a whole has not made an official statement. They should also explain their side or at least make an effort to as they are, in part or in whole, a responsible party. Details need to be brought to educate anyone wanting to host an event to know of warning signs. (granted some of them seem too obvious not to notice but still, it will help.)
I want to keep rational so i still presume all of team azk were victims and innocent however, being rational also tells me that upper echelon should ae been more responsible in gathering info from gus. Not doing so is neglect on their part and irreponsilbe knowing that their names were on the line.
Again, i reiterate than it has to be upper echelon as the other members seem to be treated like diposable pawns.
On November 11 2011 02:33 HackBenjamin wrote: Speculations and assumptions. As infuriating as it is to sit here and wait, it's probably best not to do this as it only fuels the fire.
The truth WILL come out, I'm sure of this. Let's not make it any worse by guessing...
I understand this and i really hesitated as much as i could. But i needed an example to at least explain to say that we maybe forgetting someone or pushing everything just on gus. Remember team azk as the core group or as a whole has not made an official statement. They should also explain their side or at least make an effort to as they are, in part or in whole, a responsible party. Details need to be brought to educate anyone wanting to host an event to know of warning signs. (granted some of them seem too obvious not to notice but still, it will help.)
I want to keep rational so i still presume all of team azk were victims and innocent however, being rational also tells me that upper echelon should ae been more responsible in gathering info from gus. Not doing so is neglect on their part and irreponsilbe knowing that their names were on the line.
Again, i reiterate than it has to be upper echelon as the other members seem to be treated like diposable pawns.
I see what you're saying, but it's hard for them to give a statement AS team AZK right now. There are probably more than just the two sides to the story, so imagine how difficult it is to put a statement forward as a team when their manager has seemingly hung them out to dry.
I'm personally trying really hard to not try and draw conclusions at this point, and there is a mountain of evidence to suggest that Gus fucked up royally. As I've previously stated, it just looks worse and worse the longer he doesn't address the situation and provide both transparency and accountability. I just think it's doing more harm than good to assume/suggest/imply/speculate what actually happened based on the fragments of information we have.
EPT
