On November 08 2011 09:01 RudePlague wrote: The upgrade cost change is so small it's not going to be a big change either way most of the time. At the very top of the game, it might effect the occasional game, but it's only going to be a couple of extra units built by the time you get to 3/3 which won't wildly change everything.
EMP is nice early game and won't change late game once there are a lot of ghosts with a lot of energy.
Snipe still owns zerg and protoss will continue to struggle vs mutalisks.
It's nice Protoss is being buffed a bit though.
protosses are already starting to deal with muta better just like before when it was popular. New things tend to seem "op" at first because nobody knows how to respond to it (and when it was about a year since the last time mutalisks were popular in zvp people tend to forget how they dealt with it before)
So basically every Terran who isn't a Korean GM will be losing TvPs even more.
I recognise the need for changes for the pros, it's just a shame that everyone else is going to have issues. Hopefully Terrans can figure out a way to play, because TvP is really hard at non-pro level, at least as far as I'm concerned.
On November 08 2011 08:35 Deleuze wrote: Hopefully TvP will be a little more balanced now, though we'll have to see whether the upgrades buff burns my zerg ass...
It already was balanced, except late game which was already heavily P favored and is so now even more. It will be interesting to see how soon the forge patch changes are reverted.
EMP everyone complained about, so blizzard changed it, and that change was arguable. Overall, this patch reminds me of the biggest patch change mistake of SC2 so far - nerfing tank damage.
your funny you should be a comedian your jokes are really good
I think it was a LITTLE bit out of hand, but mech vs bio and protoss is so much harder to play now, maybe it was too much
edit: to clarify, im pretty sure splash radius and splash damage was nerfed significantly alongside damage
Not relevant video. The issue was TvZ and TvP not TvT...the nerf he is talking about is tanks doing less damage to light units.
edit: shouldn't have replied, no need to derail for a siege tank balance discussion
I think he is talking about the vs armored nerf ( from 60 to 50). This is the one that makes marauders Godly and near impposible to mech TvP. The vs light nerf was fair imo.
How is PvT hard at a non pro level? Most of the people playing are copying what the pros are doing as is, and let's not kid ourselves on ghost abuse. At the non pro level, many toss players are having fits against Terran players who effectively use ghosts.
On November 08 2011 08:35 Deleuze wrote: Hopefully TvP will be a little more balanced now, though we'll have to see whether the upgrades buff burns my zerg ass...
It already was balanced, except late game which was already heavily P favored and is so now even more. It will be interesting to see how soon the forge patch changes are reverted.
EMP everyone complained about, so blizzard changed it, and that change was arguable. Overall, this patch reminds me of the biggest patch change mistake of SC2 so far - nerfing tank damage.
your funny you should be a comedian your jokes are really good
I think it was a LITTLE bit out of hand, but mech vs bio and protoss is so much harder to play now, maybe it was too much
edit: to clarify, im pretty sure splash radius and splash damage was nerfed significantly alongside damage
Not relevant video. The issue was TvZ and TvP not TvT...the nerf he is talking about is tanks doing less damage to light units.
edit: shouldn't have replied, no need to derail for a siege tank balance discussion
I think he is talking about the vs armored nerf ( from 60 to 50). This is the one that makes marauders Godly and near impposible to mech TvP. The vs light nerf was fair imo.
Nervous about the cheap upgrades.
Didn't Tanks made 60 straight up damage?
IIRC the nerf was from 60 to 35 with + 15 to armoured
On November 08 2011 08:35 Deleuze wrote: Hopefully TvP will be a little more balanced now, though we'll have to see whether the upgrades buff burns my zerg ass...
It already was balanced, except late game which was already heavily P favored and is so now even more. It will be interesting to see how soon the forge patch changes are reverted.
EMP everyone complained about, so blizzard changed it, and that change was arguable. Overall, this patch reminds me of the biggest patch change mistake of SC2 so far - nerfing tank damage.
your funny you should be a comedian your jokes are really good
I think it was a LITTLE bit out of hand, but mech vs bio and protoss is so much harder to play now, maybe it was too much
edit: to clarify, im pretty sure splash radius and splash damage was nerfed significantly alongside damage
Not relevant video. The issue was TvZ and TvP not TvT...the nerf he is talking about is tanks doing less damage to light units.
Marines are light units. Honestly i dont see tanks doing more damage to light being a game breaker in TvZ, you already 1shot zerglings and hydralisks are not exactly useful vs tanks, unless you mean the splash radius?
For TvP i completely agree though
In your video the marines don't even have combat shield or stim and they aren't micro'd...I really don't understand the point of that video. Stim + micro could take those tanks out. I agree it was less of an issue TvZ.
Just for reference (as people are bound to ask): Blizzard releases patches during their Battle.net maintenance, which is on a different time for different regions. SEA and NA have it in the night from monday to tuesday local time (which is why SEA already has the patch), EU has their maintenance in the night from tuesday to wednesday.
So the NA folks will get this patch tomorrow morning (NA time. in about ~12 hours depending on which timezone the servers are in and how long they need for maintenance) and the EU will get it wednesday morning (CET, in about 1 day and 6 hours).
On November 08 2011 08:35 Deleuze wrote: Hopefully TvP will be a little more balanced now, though we'll have to see whether the upgrades buff burns my zerg ass...
It already was balanced, except late game which was already heavily P favored and is so now even more. It will be interesting to see how soon the forge patch changes are reverted.
EMP everyone complained about, so blizzard changed it, and that change was arguable. Overall, this patch reminds me of the biggest patch change mistake of SC2 so far - nerfing tank damage.
That is why the statistics still point to the MU being heavily in favor of the terran? Too much QQ in this post.
I find it the other way around. Latest statistics show that the MU is around 53.9% in favour of terran. Yes this is, indeed, favourable for terran, but it is not a statistically significant figure to claim imbalance or "heavily in favour of the terran" as you so boldly claim.
Tanks clearly needed toning down from where they were, so I won't comment on that.
Personally I think protoss needed a little help, and I thought EMP was too strong - but I also feel colossus and storm are too strong too, as well as the marauder - generally I feel the matchup doesn't FEEL right. Essentially the terran has to go bio and its a case of MMMVG vs deathballs or zealot archon attacks. HoTS should bring some nice variety to the mix with the potential of mech.
If Protoss want to whine about their win rates, they should be directing it at Zerg by your logic, statistically ZvP is the most imbalanced matchup right now at around 56.3%. But you don't because you have a sense that this is just the metagame, or the small sample size. Please don't selectively pick and choose when you use statistics, I don't think its contributory to discussion.
On November 08 2011 09:04 FuzzyJAM wrote: So basically every Terran who isn't a Korean GM will be losing TvPs even more.
I recognise the need for changes for the pros, it's just a shame that everyone else is going to have issues. Hopefully Terrans can figure out a way to play, because TvP is really hard at non-pro level, at least as far as I'm concerned.
Make ghosts o.O They still trump high templar.
I still don't understand why so many Terrans never used ghosts in their army for so long, and now that they may have to make one or two more to cast an extra EMP or two, they feel like all hope is lost.
On November 08 2011 08:35 Deleuze wrote: Hopefully TvP will be a little more balanced now, though we'll have to see whether the upgrades buff burns my zerg ass...
It already was balanced, except late game which was already heavily P favored and is so now even more. It will be interesting to see how soon the forge patch changes are reverted.
EMP everyone complained about, so blizzard changed it, and that change was arguable. Overall, this patch reminds me of the biggest patch change mistake of SC2 so far - nerfing tank damage.
your funny you should be a comedian your jokes are really good
I think it was a LITTLE bit out of hand, but mech vs bio and protoss is so much harder to play now, maybe it was too much
edit: to clarify, im pretty sure splash radius and splash damage was nerfed significantly alongside damage
Not relevant video. The issue was TvZ and TvP not TvT...the nerf he is talking about is tanks doing less damage to light units.
Marines are light units. Honestly i dont see tanks doing more damage to light being a game breaker in TvZ, you already 1shot zerglings and hydralisks are not exactly useful vs tanks, unless you mean the splash radius?
For TvP i completely agree though
In your video the marines don't even have combat shield or stim and they aren't micro'd...I really don't understand the point of that video. Stim + micro could take those tanks out. I agree it was less of an issue TvZ.
If Stim and Micro would have won that battle, the game would be broken.
On November 08 2011 09:04 FuzzyJAM wrote: So basically every Terran who isn't a Korean GM will be losing TvPs even more.
I recognise the need for changes for the pros, it's just a shame that everyone else is going to have issues. Hopefully Terrans can figure out a way to play, because TvP is really hard at non-pro level, at least as far as I'm concerned.
too bad .... this game should never ever be balanced to cater for lower levels .... whatever league you are in on the ladder is where you deserve to be no matter what you will have a 50% win rate so whats the problem ?
On November 08 2011 09:04 FuzzyJAM wrote: So basically every Terran who isn't a Korean GM will be losing TvPs even more.
I recognise the need for changes for the pros, it's just a shame that everyone else is going to have issues. Hopefully Terrans can figure out a way to play, because TvP is really hard at non-pro level, at least as far as I'm concerned.
if your not in the top 1%.
95% of your losses come from being outplayed, outmicro'd and out macro'd.
unfortunately when people get in a tizzy about balance, they wont look at replays about what they could have done better. but rather go on the forum and say what blizzard should balance better.
EPT
