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On November 09 2011 06:22 Nightshake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 08:36 Al Bundy wrote:
I like this patch: it's straightforward and reasonable. Now hopefully Protoss players in the GSL will have a better shot. No, because NesTea and the other Terrans still better. It's not a balance problem. Protoss is going to dominate in Europe, I think.
MC took games off MVP easy, even before the patch/even when ghosts were still discustingly imba. That means, the best protoss is the better player, than the best terran. And thats what we will see, once the patch is out.
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On November 09 2011 06:46 IVN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 06:22 Nightshake wrote:On November 08 2011 08:36 Al Bundy wrote:
I like this patch: it's straightforward and reasonable. Now hopefully Protoss players in the GSL will have a better shot. No, because NesTea and the other Terrans still better. It's not a balance problem. Protoss is going to dominate in Europe, I think. MC took games off MVP easy, even before the patch/even when ghosts were still discustingly imba. That means, the best protoss is the better player, than the best terran. And thats what we will see, once the patch is out.
Are you serious?
I dont want to say X is better than Y.
But plain out saying that Terran only won because of imba Ghost is kinda harsh dont you think?
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On November 09 2011 06:59 Deckkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 06:46 IVN wrote:On November 09 2011 06:22 Nightshake wrote:On November 08 2011 08:36 Al Bundy wrote:
I like this patch: it's straightforward and reasonable. Now hopefully Protoss players in the GSL will have a better shot. No, because NesTea and the other Terrans still better. It's not a balance problem. Protoss is going to dominate in Europe, I think. MC took games off MVP easy, even before the patch/even when ghosts were still discustingly imba. That means, the best protoss is the better player, than the best terran. And thats what we will see, once the patch is out. Are you serious? I dont want to say X is better than Y. But plain out saying that Terran only won because of imba Ghost is kinda harsh dont you think?
No matter how much you argue, you'll never pop his bubble.
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On November 09 2011 06:35 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 06:08 JustTray wrote:On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee. How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran? Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense. Ghosts are not that omnipotent .... Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!! Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders. Just some facts/opinions to clear this up; Vikings are Tier 3. Vikings are also absolutely required to counter collosi, and since you have to outnumber them, also usually requires a reactor on top. Ghosts are not the most powerful unit, and have NEVER been. Recently that role has been reserved for infestors and collosi. EMP radius was nerfed once already in the beta or soon after, I forget. Ghosts are required to beat equally skilled protoss as gateway units in bulk are superior to even MMM when used properly. They always have been used at high skill levels in TvP for that reason since the beginning of the game. Vikings are not Tier 3 The whole 'tier' thing comes from Zerg, Hive = T3 and Vikings are way lower tech
Wrong. They are Tier 3. Rax - Fact - Starport. T1-T2-T3.
Yes, not all races advance up the tiers the same way, but they are in fact tier 3. Please stop spreading your lies to people who may not be as informed to easily realize them.
Thanks.
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On November 09 2011 06:59 Deckkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 06:46 IVN wrote:On November 09 2011 06:22 Nightshake wrote:On November 08 2011 08:36 Al Bundy wrote:
I like this patch: it's straightforward and reasonable. Now hopefully Protoss players in the GSL will have a better shot. No, because NesTea and the other Terrans still better. It's not a balance problem. Protoss is going to dominate in Europe, I think. MC took games off MVP easy, even before the patch/even when ghosts were still discustingly imba. That means, the best protoss is the better player, than the best terran. And thats what we will see, once the patch is out. Are you serious? I dont want to say X is better than Y. But plain out saying that Terran only won because of imba Ghost is kinda harsh dont you think?
Well, not only ghosts. There were other disgustingly imba things, like 1/1/1 and its derivatives. And many more, that were nerfed.
But yeah, terran pro players are nowhere near as good, as one might think. They are basically winning because of their race.
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On November 09 2011 07:05 JustTray wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 06:35 hugman wrote:On November 09 2011 06:08 JustTray wrote:On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee. How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran? Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense. Ghosts are not that omnipotent .... Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!! Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders. Just some facts/opinions to clear this up; Vikings are Tier 3. Vikings are also absolutely required to counter collosi, and since you have to outnumber them, also usually requires a reactor on top. Ghosts are not the most powerful unit, and have NEVER been. Recently that role has been reserved for infestors and collosi. EMP radius was nerfed once already in the beta or soon after, I forget. Ghosts are required to beat equally skilled protoss as gateway units in bulk are superior to even MMM when used properly. They always have been used at high skill levels in TvP for that reason since the beginning of the game. Vikings are not Tier 3 The whole 'tier' thing comes from Zerg, Hive = T3 and Vikings are way lower tech Wrong. They are Tier 3. Rax - Fact - Starport. T1-T2-T3. Yes, not all races advance up the tiers the same way, but they are in fact tier 3. Please stop spreading your lies to people who may not be as informed to easily realize them. Thanks.
wait....so protoss air is tier 3 and 4? gateway, core, stargate, fleetbeacon?
yes races are different but I think it has more to how fast you can get to it. vikings are fast and tier 2. Thats a scientific fact
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On November 09 2011 07:05 JustTray wrote:
Wrong. They are Tier 3. Rax - Fact - Starport. T1-T2-T3.
Yes, not all races advance up the tiers the same way, but they are in fact tier 3. Please stop spreading your lies to people who may not be as informed to easily realize them.
Thanks.
Wow. Just wow. You have a different definition of Tier to him. There is no widely accepted definition of Tier for Terran, especially considering it was designed for Warcraft and Zerg, which have clear Tiers.
How can you be "informed" about a definition which is not only jargon, but also seemingly arbitrarily defined for Terran/Protoss? Is there an authority on what counts as a "Tier" and what doesn't?
If not, shut the fuck up. You just condescendingly accused someone of being a liar and implied he was an imbecile. Think before you post, please.
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On November 09 2011 07:05 JustTray wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 06:35 hugman wrote:On November 09 2011 06:08 JustTray wrote:On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee. How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran? Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense. Ghosts are not that omnipotent .... Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!! Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders. Just some facts/opinions to clear this up; Vikings are Tier 3. Vikings are also absolutely required to counter collosi, and since you have to outnumber them, also usually requires a reactor on top. Ghosts are not the most powerful unit, and have NEVER been. Recently that role has been reserved for infestors and collosi. EMP radius was nerfed once already in the beta or soon after, I forget. Ghosts are required to beat equally skilled protoss as gateway units in bulk are superior to even MMM when used properly. They always have been used at high skill levels in TvP for that reason since the beginning of the game. Vikings are not Tier 3 The whole 'tier' thing comes from Zerg, Hive = T3 and Vikings are way lower tech Wrong. They are Tier 3. Rax - Fact - Starport. T1-T2-T3. Yes, not all races advance up the tiers the same way, but they are in fact tier 3. Please stop spreading your lies to people who may not be as informed to easily realize them. Thanks.
Ah I knew toss'es tier 4 sucked ass. (Gateway + cyber + stargate + fleet beacon by your logic)
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What is that second portrait? Someone explain pls..
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United States5162 Posts
On November 09 2011 07:05 JustTray wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 06:35 hugman wrote:On November 09 2011 06:08 JustTray wrote:On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee. How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran? Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense. Ghosts are not that omnipotent .... Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!! Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders. Just some facts/opinions to clear this up; Vikings are Tier 3. Vikings are also absolutely required to counter collosi, and since you have to outnumber them, also usually requires a reactor on top. Ghosts are not the most powerful unit, and have NEVER been. Recently that role has been reserved for infestors and collosi. EMP radius was nerfed once already in the beta or soon after, I forget. Ghosts are required to beat equally skilled protoss as gateway units in bulk are superior to even MMM when used properly. They always have been used at high skill levels in TvP for that reason since the beginning of the game. Vikings are not Tier 3 The whole 'tier' thing comes from Zerg, Hive = T3 and Vikings are way lower tech Wrong. They are Tier 3. Rax - Fact - Starport. T1-T2-T3. Yes, not all races advance up the tiers the same way, but they are in fact tier 3. Please stop spreading your lies to people who may not be as informed to easily realize them. Thanks.
The tier system is stupid. Not all rax units are equal tier and neither are all starport units.
If you want to call Vikings tier 3 because it goes rax-factory-starport, then HT are Tier 4(gateway-core-twilight-archives) and Broodlords are tier 5(pool-lair-pit-hive-greater spire).
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On November 09 2011 07:05 JustTray wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 06:35 hugman wrote:On November 09 2011 06:08 JustTray wrote:On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee. How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran? Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense. Ghosts are not that omnipotent .... Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!! Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders. Just some facts/opinions to clear this up; Vikings are Tier 3. Vikings are also absolutely required to counter collosi, and since you have to outnumber them, also usually requires a reactor on top. Ghosts are not the most powerful unit, and have NEVER been. Recently that role has been reserved for infestors and collosi. EMP radius was nerfed once already in the beta or soon after, I forget. Ghosts are required to beat equally skilled protoss as gateway units in bulk are superior to even MMM when used properly. They always have been used at high skill levels in TvP for that reason since the beginning of the game. Vikings are not Tier 3 The whole 'tier' thing comes from Zerg, Hive = T3 and Vikings are way lower tech Wrong. They are Tier 3. Rax - Fact - Starport. T1-T2-T3. Yes, not all races advance up the tiers the same way, but they are in fact tier 3. Please stop spreading your lies to people who may not be as informed to easily realize them. Thanks.
terran, the only race getting "Tier 3" in the first 5 minutes of the game.
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Every Zerg and Protoss is laughing their asses off right now since they already got their spellcasters nerfed. It was about time for the Terran's turn.
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On November 08 2011 18:46 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 18:45 avilo wrote:On November 08 2011 18:43 Heavenly wrote:On November 08 2011 18:38 avilo wrote:
Pretty sure they will revert the forge changes in 1-2 weeks. You're about to see ridiculous protoss dominance. EMP is iffy as well. Lol, the forge changes. Yeah, that one extra stalker or so is going to change the midgame so much. You get the upgrades even faster than you currently would. You don't even need to understand basic math or know how to read a clock to understand that. How would I get upgrades faster when the build time is unchanged?
You have a red hammer next to your name, i expect more from you...you get the upgrades more quickly because they are cheaper...you will have enough money sooner...you will be able to research the upgrades earlier on in the game...
*facepalm*
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On November 09 2011 07:05 JustTray wrote:
Wrong. They are Tier 3. Rax - Fact - Starport. T1-T2-T3.
Yes, not all races advance up the tiers the same way, but they are in fact tier 3. Please stop spreading your lies to people who may not be as informed to easily realize them.
Thanks.
Actually I think you are wrong... Because thors for instance cannot be called a tier 2 unit, or lower tech then medivac/viking.
Not that the tier thing really matters, but a rule that would work for all the races are that ling/zealot/marine are tier 1; roach, marauder, reaper, stalker and sentry are between tiers; a ton of units are tier 2; and the really big units are tier 3.
So yeah, vikings are tier 2. But it doesnt really matter, because immortals, for example, can pretty much """hard counter""" thors and ultras. The only thing that bothers me the most is that the viking can destroy both collosus and carriers, pretty much as ghosts (although not really effective at this task) can kill both tier 3 from zerg.
When you have a great Air to Air unit like the viking and the other race have two tier 3 air unit things get a little boring.
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On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.
battlecruisers
tanks
ghosts
hellions
RAVEN
herp derp
dont say tanks suck in TVP, i think you forgot how strong 1/1/1 is because of tanks. Tanks are also not useless late game
btw... if u talk about late game units, u forgot about battlecruisers, thors, ravens and so on....
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On November 09 2011 07:15 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 18:46 iamke55 wrote:On November 08 2011 18:45 avilo wrote:On November 08 2011 18:43 Heavenly wrote:On November 08 2011 18:38 avilo wrote:
Pretty sure they will revert the forge changes in 1-2 weeks. You're about to see ridiculous protoss dominance. EMP is iffy as well. Lol, the forge changes. Yeah, that one extra stalker or so is going to change the midgame so much. You get the upgrades even faster than you currently would. You don't even need to understand basic math or know how to read a clock to understand that. How would I get upgrades faster when the build time is unchanged? You have a red hammer next to your name, i expect more from you...you get the upgrades more quickly because they are cheaper...you will have enough money sooner...you will be able to research the upgrades earlier on in the game... *facepalm*
tier 1 ups cost the same.
the only way to get them "really" fast is double forge and chrono the hell out of them.
if you're that commited to getting fast ups the very small reduction in cost of tier 2 isn't going to make a difference.
i don't know any build which is soooooo refined that at the 9 minute mark 50/50 couldn't be found. warp in a zealot instead of a stalker and you're pretty much there.
if you're going single forge and getting constant ups then time is the issue, not cost, unless your plan is to 1 base to the 20 minute mark...
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On November 09 2011 04:02 secretary bird wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 03:55 Firesilver wrote:On November 09 2011 03:49 secretary bird wrote:On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee. How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran? Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense. Ghosts are not that omnipotent .... Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!! Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders. Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that. "Starcraft doesn't work like that?" It's not all about unit counters obviously but it does play a huge role in the game. He has a point, building tier 2 units to counter tier 3 is a good tradeoff, M/M are tier 1 and can counter tons of units from all races. Do you usually build tier 3 units to counter other tier 3 units? Would that even make more sense? No starcraft doesnt work like that. And tier 1 units are used all game in large numbers by all races.
That's the thing though. What does a protoss have to do to make their tier 1 useful late game? Get cyber core, get twlight councile for upgrades. Expensive, long process. What does terran have to do? TECH LAB LAWL.
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On November 09 2011 07:05 JustTray wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 06:35 hugman wrote:On November 09 2011 06:08 JustTray wrote:On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee. How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran? Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense. Ghosts are not that omnipotent .... Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!! Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders. Just some facts/opinions to clear this up; Vikings are Tier 3. Vikings are also absolutely required to counter collosi, and since you have to outnumber them, also usually requires a reactor on top. Ghosts are not the most powerful unit, and have NEVER been. Recently that role has been reserved for infestors and collosi. EMP radius was nerfed once already in the beta or soon after, I forget. Ghosts are required to beat equally skilled protoss as gateway units in bulk are superior to even MMM when used properly. They always have been used at high skill levels in TvP for that reason since the beginning of the game. Vikings are not Tier 3 The whole 'tier' thing comes from Zerg, Hive = T3 and Vikings are way lower tech Wrong. They are Tier 3. Rax - Fact - Starport. T1-T2-T3. Yes, not all races advance up the tiers the same way, but they are in fact tier 3. Please stop spreading your lies to people who may not be as informed to easily realize them. Thanks.
WOW. Really? REALLY? Good job dude. Does this mean my Phoenixes are tier 3? gate, core, stargate? If so, don't you dare give me crap about terran tier 3 being shitty. In fact, I wish my tier 3 was as dominant as your vikings. They are literally the kings of air, and are infact the most basic of air tech.
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On November 09 2011 07:20 Zoraque wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. battlecruisers tanks ghosts hellions RAVEN herp derp dont say tanks suck in TVP, i think you forgot how strong 1/1/1 is because of tanks. Tanks are also not useless late game btw... if u talk about late game units, u forgot about battlecruisers, thors, ravens and so on....
Battlecruisers don't deal AOE damage ..... , Yamato may look like one but actually it just hits 1 target ....
Oh And THors and BC's actually ARE useless against Protoss they just die horribly to anything Protoss already has anyway .
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On November 09 2011 06:46 IVN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 06:22 Nightshake wrote:On November 08 2011 08:36 Al Bundy wrote:
I like this patch: it's straightforward and reasonable. Now hopefully Protoss players in the GSL will have a better shot. No, because NesTea and the other Terrans still better. It's not a balance problem. Protoss is going to dominate in Europe, I think. MC took games off MVP easy, even before the patch/even when ghosts were still discustingly imba. That means, the best protoss is the better player, than the best terran. And thats what we will see, once the patch is out.
Troll post is troll.
User was warned for this post
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EPT
