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On November 08 2011 12:19 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:16 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:14 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:13 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:12 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:10 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now. How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE! I used to do the 1 rax fe and 2 rax pressure fe builds against Toss..... I'm debating wether if I should now resort to doing the 1-1-1. If us Terrans keep spamming the 1-1-1 build, we'll just see more continous QQ from other races accusing us Terrans of being imba. I think we should just do the 1 rax fe builds now and hope to god we don't get nerfed even more. Hang on, what am I saying? No matter what Terran does, we will just keep getting nerfed lol. Screw it, I'm spamming 1-1-1 against every fkn toss now. I feel sorry for new players that are introduced to the game a couple years from now. It will be like, "Why the fuck do I have to micro so god damn much just to stay even with a toss or zerg army? They can just a move me!" I will reply "Well, back in the day everyone constantly QQ'd about the Terran race and basically blizzard just nerfed it into the ground, so don't bother with Terran.... just go play Toss or Zerg and simply macro a move  " dude if you don't like how ur fucking race works, JUST SWITCH for fuck sake u're not even complaining about balance right now There are some players for example me that absolutely dispise the other races they don't play and don't want to switch ... then don't fucking complain about ur race mechanics Why not ? There's plenty wrong with Terran ( and the other 2 races as well ) that need change.... oh so you think it's wrong that terran can be the strongest race when used optimally? you think the race should be dumbed down for stupider players to feel better about themselves? Thats not what i meant ......... . In an ideal game every race had plenty of ways to play that don't put you behind immidiatly , sadly thats not that the case right now. I want freaking variation and not the same shit all the time or you'll probably lose. so you just want more... options? isn't terran like the race with the most options?
Yeah TvP is so full of options thats why every game of TvP that goes beyond ~15 Minutes looks exactly the same unless somebody plays some funky shit .
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On November 08 2011 12:21 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:19 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:14 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:13 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:12 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:10 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now. How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE! I used to do the 1 rax fe and 2 rax pressure fe builds against Toss..... I'm debating wether if I should now resort to doing the 1-1-1. If us Terrans keep spamming the 1-1-1 build, we'll just see more continous QQ from other races accusing us Terrans of being imba. I think we should just do the 1 rax fe builds now and hope to god we don't get nerfed even more. Hang on, what am I saying? No matter what Terran does, we will just keep getting nerfed lol. Screw it, I'm spamming 1-1-1 against every fkn toss now. I feel sorry for new players that are introduced to the game a couple years from now. It will be like, "Why the fuck do I have to micro so god damn much just to stay even with a toss or zerg army? They can just a move me!" I will reply "Well, back in the day everyone constantly QQ'd about the Terran race and basically blizzard just nerfed it into the ground, so don't bother with Terran.... just go play Toss or Zerg and simply macro a move " dude if you don't like how ur fucking race works, JUST SWITCH for fuck sake u're not even complaining about balance right now There are some players for example me that absolutely dispise the other races they don't play and don't want to switch ... then don't fucking complain about ur race mechanics Why not ? There's plenty wrong with Terran ( and the other 2 races as well ) that need change.... oh so you think it's wrong that terran can be the strongest race when used optimally? you think the race should be dumbed down for stupider players to feel better about themselves? Thats not what i meant ......... . In an ideal game every race had plenty of ways to play that don't put you behind immidiatly , sadly thats not that the case right now. I want freaking variation and not the same shit all the time or you'll probably lose. so you just want more... options? isn't terran like the race with the most options? Yeah TvP is so full of options thats why every game of TvP that goes beyond ~15 Minutes looks exactly the same unless somebody plays some funky shit .
... And it's not like that in every other MU?
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On November 08 2011 12:09 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now. How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE! I used to do the 1 rax fe and 2 rax pressure fe builds against Toss..... I'm debating wether if I should now resort to doing the 1-1-1. If us Terrans keep spamming the 1-1-1 build, we'll just see more continous QQ from other races accusing us Terrans of being imba. I think we should just do the 1 rax fe builds now and hope to god we don't get nerfed even more. Hang on, what am I saying? No matter what Terran does, we will just keep getting nerfed lol. Screw it, I'm spamming 1-1-1 against every fkn toss now. I feel sorry for new players that are introduced to the game a couple years from now. It will be like, "Why the fuck do I have to micro so god damn much just to stay even with a toss or zerg army? They can just a move me!" I will reply "Well, back in the day everyone constantly QQ'd about the Terran race and basically blizzard just nerfed it into the ground, so don't bother with Terran.... just go play Toss or Zerg and simply macro a move " Hasn't everyone been arguing since beta that there isn't enough in SC2 that rewards good micro? Is expecting you to micro really that big a deal?
Well to be quiet honest, Iove the Terran race because of how micro intensive it is. But one has to draw a line between being able to achieve only so much with this micro whereas the other 2 races can pretty much A move and achieve the same thing. Don't even even try to make excuses how how toss and zerg armies require so much micro, it's a load of crap. Come and play Terran and you will realise just how much micro you essentially need to put in to achieve what another race can by simply a moving.
Where is the fungal radius nerf?
Why not increase sentry FF cost? At least toss will actually be more conservative of the FF's instead of just spamming a freaking line. Yeeaaaaah! boi spamming force fields takes SKILL!
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On November 08 2011 11:36 Eps wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 11:27 Snorkle wrote:
If the range on emp is still 10 instead of 9 ghosts will still emp templar before they can feedback/storm ghosts... not even mentioning snipe meh.
I still think feedback needs to be same range as snipe (10)
Something is better than nothing though. Ghosts are meant to be Anti-Caster units, that's what they do. Do you really think the Templar should be on par with essentially dedicated Anti-Caster Units? And have one of the best AOE spells in the game, And have the option to morph into a Bio-Wrecking ball when their energy is depleted?
Since when does "all of Protoss" and "all late-game Zerg units" mean "anti-Caster"?
If ghosts could only use EMP, and if EMP only took out energy, then I would agree with you that ghosts were meant to be anti-Caster units. Quite frankly, ghosts are anti-Everything. But yes, I agree with you that ghosts (are even so good that they) even counter themselves.
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On November 08 2011 12:21 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:19 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:14 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:13 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:12 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:10 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now. How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE! I used to do the 1 rax fe and 2 rax pressure fe builds against Toss..... I'm debating wether if I should now resort to doing the 1-1-1. If us Terrans keep spamming the 1-1-1 build, we'll just see more continous QQ from other races accusing us Terrans of being imba. I think we should just do the 1 rax fe builds now and hope to god we don't get nerfed even more. Hang on, what am I saying? No matter what Terran does, we will just keep getting nerfed lol. Screw it, I'm spamming 1-1-1 against every fkn toss now. I feel sorry for new players that are introduced to the game a couple years from now. It will be like, "Why the fuck do I have to micro so god damn much just to stay even with a toss or zerg army? They can just a move me!" I will reply "Well, back in the day everyone constantly QQ'd about the Terran race and basically blizzard just nerfed it into the ground, so don't bother with Terran.... just go play Toss or Zerg and simply macro a move " dude if you don't like how ur fucking race works, JUST SWITCH for fuck sake u're not even complaining about balance right now There are some players for example me that absolutely dispise the other races they don't play and don't want to switch ... then don't fucking complain about ur race mechanics Why not ? There's plenty wrong with Terran ( and the other 2 races as well ) that need change.... oh so you think it's wrong that terran can be the strongest race when used optimally? you think the race should be dumbed down for stupider players to feel better about themselves? Thats not what i meant ......... . In an ideal game every race had plenty of ways to play that don't put you behind immidiatly , sadly thats not that the case right now. I want freaking variation and not the same shit all the time or you'll probably lose. so you just want more... options? isn't terran like the race with the most options? Yeah TvP is so full of options thats why every game of TvP that goes beyond ~15 Minutes looks exactly the same unless somebody plays some funky shit .
yeah people generally wants to win, if you want to play a casual game don't play competitive SC2 games
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On November 08 2011 12:21 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:19 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:14 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:13 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:12 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:10 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now. How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE! I used to do the 1 rax fe and 2 rax pressure fe builds against Toss..... I'm debating wether if I should now resort to doing the 1-1-1. If us Terrans keep spamming the 1-1-1 build, we'll just see more continous QQ from other races accusing us Terrans of being imba. I think we should just do the 1 rax fe builds now and hope to god we don't get nerfed even more. Hang on, what am I saying? No matter what Terran does, we will just keep getting nerfed lol. Screw it, I'm spamming 1-1-1 against every fkn toss now. I feel sorry for new players that are introduced to the game a couple years from now. It will be like, "Why the fuck do I have to micro so god damn much just to stay even with a toss or zerg army? They can just a move me!" I will reply "Well, back in the day everyone constantly QQ'd about the Terran race and basically blizzard just nerfed it into the ground, so don't bother with Terran.... just go play Toss or Zerg and simply macro a move " dude if you don't like how ur fucking race works, JUST SWITCH for fuck sake u're not even complaining about balance right now There are some players for example me that absolutely dispise the other races they don't play and don't want to switch ... then don't fucking complain about ur race mechanics Why not ? There's plenty wrong with Terran ( and the other 2 races as well ) that need change.... oh so you think it's wrong that terran can be the strongest race when used optimally? you think the race should be dumbed down for stupider players to feel better about themselves? Thats not what i meant ......... . In an ideal game every race had plenty of ways to play that don't put you behind immidiatly , sadly thats not that the case right now. I want freaking variation and not the same shit all the time or you'll probably lose. so you just want more... options? isn't terran like the race with the most options? Yeah TvP is so full of options thats why every game of TvP that goes beyond ~20 Minutes looks exactly the same .
Every game of TvZ ~ 20 minutes looks exactly the same
seriously? thats your argument
Okay if you can't keep up with Terran micro, and I'm assumign you're mid masters at best, then you should just stop complaining and get better. Plenty of Korean top Terrans don't find it hard AT ALL to stutter step or micro drops, which is why Terran played at its highest level is currently King.
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On November 08 2011 12:16 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:14 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:13 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:12 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:10 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now. How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE! I used to do the 1 rax fe and 2 rax pressure fe builds against Toss..... I'm debating wether if I should now resort to doing the 1-1-1. If us Terrans keep spamming the 1-1-1 build, we'll just see more continous QQ from other races accusing us Terrans of being imba. I think we should just do the 1 rax fe builds now and hope to god we don't get nerfed even more. Hang on, what am I saying? No matter what Terran does, we will just keep getting nerfed lol. Screw it, I'm spamming 1-1-1 against every fkn toss now. I feel sorry for new players that are introduced to the game a couple years from now. It will be like, "Why the fuck do I have to micro so god damn much just to stay even with a toss or zerg army? They can just a move me!" I will reply "Well, back in the day everyone constantly QQ'd about the Terran race and basically blizzard just nerfed it into the ground, so don't bother with Terran.... just go play Toss or Zerg and simply macro a move " dude if you don't like how ur fucking race works, JUST SWITCH for fuck sake u're not even complaining about balance right now There are some players for example me that absolutely dispise the other races they don't play and don't want to switch ... then don't fucking complain about ur race mechanics Why not ? There's plenty wrong with Terran ( and the other 2 races as well ) that need change.... oh so you think it's wrong that terran can be the strongest race when used optimally? you think the race should be dumbed down for stupider players to feel better about themselves?
You're assuming that all 3 races are being played optimally right now. I've yet to seen a single game where every mule was landed at exactly 50 energy, every inject was landed at exactly 25 energy, every chrono boost was used (the best protosses in the world seem to forget that they even have CB after the midgame has passed). And that's just the most basic of macro mechanics, let alone perfectly managed armies, the best possible mixes of everything figured out, the exact perfect timings for tech switches.
The metagame is still very much in its infancy. Truth be told, the game still has a long way to go before we even know what optimal play looks like.
That being said, in the current metagame, at the topmost level, Terran is the strongest. As play develops, Zerg could become the strongest, or Protoss could become the strongest. Or it could cycle between them. For God's sake, we still have 2 more expansions worth of units coming out on top of that. I'm ok with Terran being nerfed into the ground now, so long as when Protoss or Zerg owns 20/32 spots in GSL and Terran is only winning foreign tournaments, that Terran gets buffed and the other races get nerfed too, and nobody's on here saying, "Finally, game's balanced and takes skill, go to Hell Terrans!"
Or, they could leave units alone and let the game get figured out more before they keep adjusting things as we get used to them. If they were actually balancing for the tip-top level of play, these are not the changes that would be getting made. I highly doubt that they were watching MC/HuK and the like play and go "You know what they really need? a 75/75 resource break on their upgrades."
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On November 08 2011 12:22 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:21 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:19 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:14 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:13 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:12 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:10 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now. How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE! I used to do the 1 rax fe and 2 rax pressure fe builds against Toss..... I'm debating wether if I should now resort to doing the 1-1-1. If us Terrans keep spamming the 1-1-1 build, we'll just see more continous QQ from other races accusing us Terrans of being imba. I think we should just do the 1 rax fe builds now and hope to god we don't get nerfed even more. Hang on, what am I saying? No matter what Terran does, we will just keep getting nerfed lol. Screw it, I'm spamming 1-1-1 against every fkn toss now. I feel sorry for new players that are introduced to the game a couple years from now. It will be like, "Why the fuck do I have to micro so god damn much just to stay even with a toss or zerg army? They can just a move me!" I will reply "Well, back in the day everyone constantly QQ'd about the Terran race and basically blizzard just nerfed it into the ground, so don't bother with Terran.... just go play Toss or Zerg and simply macro a move " dude if you don't like how ur fucking race works, JUST SWITCH for fuck sake u're not even complaining about balance right now There are some players for example me that absolutely dispise the other races they don't play and don't want to switch ... then don't fucking complain about ur race mechanics Why not ? There's plenty wrong with Terran ( and the other 2 races as well ) that need change.... oh so you think it's wrong that terran can be the strongest race when used optimally? you think the race should be dumbed down for stupider players to feel better about themselves? Thats not what i meant ......... . In an ideal game every race had plenty of ways to play that don't put you behind immidiatly , sadly thats not that the case right now. I want freaking variation and not the same shit all the time or you'll probably lose. so you just want more... options? isn't terran like the race with the most options? Yeah TvP is so full of options thats why every game of TvP that goes beyond ~15 Minutes looks exactly the same unless somebody plays some funky shit . ... And it's not like that in every other MU?
No its not in TvZ and TvT you can actually use (almost) your full arsenal and play completely differently from game to game and be actually effetive with it.
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On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:
OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now.
How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE!
Don't forget the most amove friendly unit in the game, the zealot. The stuff of my TvP Nightmares
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On November 08 2011 12:22 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:09 Daralii wrote:On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now. How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE! I used to do the 1 rax fe and 2 rax pressure fe builds against Toss..... I'm debating wether if I should now resort to doing the 1-1-1. If us Terrans keep spamming the 1-1-1 build, we'll just see more continous QQ from other races accusing us Terrans of being imba. I think we should just do the 1 rax fe builds now and hope to god we don't get nerfed even more. Hang on, what am I saying? No matter what Terran does, we will just keep getting nerfed lol. Screw it, I'm spamming 1-1-1 against every fkn toss now. I feel sorry for new players that are introduced to the game a couple years from now. It will be like, "Why the fuck do I have to micro so god damn much just to stay even with a toss or zerg army? They can just a move me!" I will reply "Well, back in the day everyone constantly QQ'd about the Terran race and basically blizzard just nerfed it into the ground, so don't bother with Terran.... just go play Toss or Zerg and simply macro a move " Hasn't everyone been arguing since beta that there isn't enough in SC2 that rewards good micro? Is expecting you to micro really that big a deal? Well to be quiet honest, Iove the Terran race because of how micro intensive it is. But one has to draw a line between being able to achieve only so much with this micro whereas the other 2 races can pretty much A move and achieve the same thing. Don't even even try to make excuses how how toss and zerg armies require so much micro, it's a load of crap. Come and play Terran and you will realise just how much micro you essentially need to put in to achieve what another race can by simply a moving. Where is the fungal radius nerf? Why not increase sentry FF cost? At least toss will actually be more conservative of the FF's instead of just spamming a freaking line. Yeeaaaaah! boi spamming force fields takes SKILL!
I played both terran and protoss and I don't think one takes more skills than the others, they're different but if you're a good player you'll be good regardless of the race you pick
you don't see zerg complaining they have to larva inject the whole game to keep up with macro whereas as terran and protoss you can just click one hotkey and spam buttons to make an infinite number of units
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On November 08 2011 12:22 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:09 Daralii wrote:On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now. How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE! I used to do the 1 rax fe and 2 rax pressure fe builds against Toss..... I'm debating wether if I should now resort to doing the 1-1-1. If us Terrans keep spamming the 1-1-1 build, we'll just see more continous QQ from other races accusing us Terrans of being imba. I think we should just do the 1 rax fe builds now and hope to god we don't get nerfed even more. Hang on, what am I saying? No matter what Terran does, we will just keep getting nerfed lol. Screw it, I'm spamming 1-1-1 against every fkn toss now. I feel sorry for new players that are introduced to the game a couple years from now. It will be like, "Why the fuck do I have to micro so god damn much just to stay even with a toss or zerg army? They can just a move me!" I will reply "Well, back in the day everyone constantly QQ'd about the Terran race and basically blizzard just nerfed it into the ground, so don't bother with Terran.... just go play Toss or Zerg and simply macro a move " Hasn't everyone been arguing since beta that there isn't enough in SC2 that rewards good micro? Is expecting you to micro really that big a deal? Well to be quiet honest, Iove the Terran race because of how micro intensive it is. But one has to draw a line between being able to achieve only so much with this micro whereas the other 2 races can pretty much A move and achieve the same thing. Don't even even try to make excuses how how toss and zerg armies require so much micro, it's a load of crap. Come and play Terran and you will realise just how much micro you essentially need to put in to achieve what another race can by simply a moving. Where is the fungal radius nerf? Why not increase sentry FF cost? At least toss will actually be more conservative of the FF's instead of just spamming a freaking line. Yeeaaaaah! boi spamming force fields takes SKILL!
EMP's radius was the outlier, actually. Both other lategame AoEs(fungal, storm) have been 1.5 for a while. EMP was the only one that was still 2.
As far as FF, a toss literally lives or dies by their FFs. One misplaced FF is all it takes to lose a game, and each sentry isn't exactly cheap. Just like any other method of area control, it's easy to use but damn near impossible to master.
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On November 08 2011 12:22 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:21 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:19 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:14 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:13 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:12 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:10 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now. How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE! I used to do the 1 rax fe and 2 rax pressure fe builds against Toss..... I'm debating wether if I should now resort to doing the 1-1-1. If us Terrans keep spamming the 1-1-1 build, we'll just see more continous QQ from other races accusing us Terrans of being imba. I think we should just do the 1 rax fe builds now and hope to god we don't get nerfed even more. Hang on, what am I saying? No matter what Terran does, we will just keep getting nerfed lol. Screw it, I'm spamming 1-1-1 against every fkn toss now. I feel sorry for new players that are introduced to the game a couple years from now. It will be like, "Why the fuck do I have to micro so god damn much just to stay even with a toss or zerg army? They can just a move me!" I will reply "Well, back in the day everyone constantly QQ'd about the Terran race and basically blizzard just nerfed it into the ground, so don't bother with Terran.... just go play Toss or Zerg and simply macro a move " dude if you don't like how ur fucking race works, JUST SWITCH for fuck sake u're not even complaining about balance right now There are some players for example me that absolutely dispise the other races they don't play and don't want to switch ... then don't fucking complain about ur race mechanics Why not ? There's plenty wrong with Terran ( and the other 2 races as well ) that need change.... oh so you think it's wrong that terran can be the strongest race when used optimally? you think the race should be dumbed down for stupider players to feel better about themselves? Thats not what i meant ......... . In an ideal game every race had plenty of ways to play that don't put you behind immidiatly , sadly thats not that the case right now. I want freaking variation and not the same shit all the time or you'll probably lose. so you just want more... options? isn't terran like the race with the most options? Yeah TvP is so full of options thats why every game of TvP that goes beyond ~15 Minutes looks exactly the same unless somebody plays some funky shit . yeah people generally wants to win, if you want to play a casual game don't play competitive SC2 games
where did you get the idea that people don't want to win casual games as well?
Just admit it, beyond some cute harass and openings, terran has less options in tvp than the other way around. It's a huge fucking bore
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On November 08 2011 12:22 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:09 Daralii wrote:On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now. How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE! I used to do the 1 rax fe and 2 rax pressure fe builds against Toss..... I'm debating wether if I should now resort to doing the 1-1-1. If us Terrans keep spamming the 1-1-1 build, we'll just see more continous QQ from other races accusing us Terrans of being imba. I think we should just do the 1 rax fe builds now and hope to god we don't get nerfed even more. Hang on, what am I saying? No matter what Terran does, we will just keep getting nerfed lol. Screw it, I'm spamming 1-1-1 against every fkn toss now. I feel sorry for new players that are introduced to the game a couple years from now. It will be like, "Why the fuck do I have to micro so god damn much just to stay even with a toss or zerg army? They can just a move me!" I will reply "Well, back in the day everyone constantly QQ'd about the Terran race and basically blizzard just nerfed it into the ground, so don't bother with Terran.... just go play Toss or Zerg and simply macro a move " Hasn't everyone been arguing since beta that there isn't enough in SC2 that rewards good micro? Is expecting you to micro really that big a deal? Well to be quiet honest, Iove the Terran race because of how micro intensive it is. But one has to draw a line between being able to achieve only so much with this micro whereas the other 2 races can pretty much A move and achieve the same thing. Don't even even try to make excuses how how toss and zerg armies require so much micro, it's a load of crap. Come and play Terran and you will realise just how much micro you essentially need to put in to achieve what another race can by simply a moving. Where is the fungal radius nerf? Why not increase sentry FF cost? At least toss will actually be more conservative of the FF's instead of just spamming a freaking line. Yeeaaaaah! boi spamming force fields takes SKILL!
races are different. Yes Terran micro is the hardest, but their macro is far the easiest and the best. Stop whining.
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On November 08 2011 12:23 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:16 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:14 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:13 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:12 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:10 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now. How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE! I used to do the 1 rax fe and 2 rax pressure fe builds against Toss..... I'm debating wether if I should now resort to doing the 1-1-1. If us Terrans keep spamming the 1-1-1 build, we'll just see more continous QQ from other races accusing us Terrans of being imba. I think we should just do the 1 rax fe builds now and hope to god we don't get nerfed even more. Hang on, what am I saying? No matter what Terran does, we will just keep getting nerfed lol. Screw it, I'm spamming 1-1-1 against every fkn toss now. I feel sorry for new players that are introduced to the game a couple years from now. It will be like, "Why the fuck do I have to micro so god damn much just to stay even with a toss or zerg army? They can just a move me!" I will reply "Well, back in the day everyone constantly QQ'd about the Terran race and basically blizzard just nerfed it into the ground, so don't bother with Terran.... just go play Toss or Zerg and simply macro a move " dude if you don't like how ur fucking race works, JUST SWITCH for fuck sake u're not even complaining about balance right now There are some players for example me that absolutely dispise the other races they don't play and don't want to switch ... then don't fucking complain about ur race mechanics Why not ? There's plenty wrong with Terran ( and the other 2 races as well ) that need change.... oh so you think it's wrong that terran can be the strongest race when used optimally? you think the race should be dumbed down for stupider players to feel better about themselves? You're assuming that all 3 races are being played optimally right now. I've yet to seen a single game where every mule was landed at exactly 50 energy, every inject was landed at exactly 25 energy, every chrono boost was used (the best protosses in the world seem to forget that they even have CB after the midgame has passed). And that's just the most basic of macro mechanics, let alone perfectly managed armies, the best possible mixes of everything figured out, the exact perfect timings for tech switches. The metagame is still very much in its infancy. Truth be told, the game still has a long way to go before we even know what optimal play looks like. That being said, in the current metagame, at the topmost level, Terran is the strongest. As play develops, Zerg could become the strongest, or Protoss could become the strongest. Or it could cycle between them. For God's sake, we still have 2 more expansions worth of units coming out on top of that. I'm ok with Terran being nerfed into the ground now, so long as when Protoss or Zerg owns 20/32 spots in GSL and Terran is only winning foreign tournaments, that Terran gets buffed and the other races get nerfed too, and nobody's on here saying, "Finally, game's balanced and takes skill, go to Hell Terrans!" Or, they could leave units alone and let the game get figured out more before they keep adjusting things as we get used to them. If they were actually balancing for the tip-top level of play, these are not the changes that would be getting made. I highly doubt that they were watching MC/HuK and the like play and go "You know what they really need? a 75/75 resource break on their upgrades."
it's really only the fact that kiting is probably one of the most cost effective thing you can do in starcraft with your units and terran can do that the best
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On November 08 2011 12:05 iokke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 11:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:
Ugh, I know blizzard needs to patch it for pro play but TvP is so hard when you don't have the mechanics of pros. People don't realize how hard it is to play Terran when Toss/Zerg can actually macro. Like the other guy said, there's just going to be less and less terrans in ladder. this is actually pretty silly, you're implying that T will be too weak, but it could just as well mean that people chose T before because it was too strong, and now that it may not be that strong anymore those who were seeking an advantage will switch. I doubt a lot of terrans will switch races because of this patch. Anywho, as P im obviously happy about this, upgrade costs aren't that much of a buff but still nice, while EMP change is huge I think. If its too much Bliz might change it back later, or maybe T will adapt fine, with extra ghosts for example. its amazing how hard it is to separate yourself from bias towards your race, as most post show (including my own). It would be cool to see a balance discussion threat were only people that play random post
No, I don't think terran is weak at all. I think it's probably the strongest race when played properly. Terran requires a lot of micro and multitasking and people below masters (maybe even in masters) do not have these mechanics. Compare that to protoss or zerg where microing/multitasking is somewhat less important and I can see why terran has been declining in popularity over the last few seasons. Once 1 base all ins stop working and Zergs/Protoss can keep up in macro, Terran becomes a way harder race than the other two because you NEED micro or you will flat out die. Don't split your marines correctly vs. Banes? They all die. Can't kite 3/3 zealots with charge while emp'ing army and target firing colossi with vikings? You die. Accidentally keep marines or bio clumped up? Fungal/Storm kills everything. As terran you live and die by your micro, you can't just straight up macro and amove.
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As a T player I welcome this patch. I don't think it makes virtually any diff TvP but I hope it will shut up the whining and balance complaining on ladder.
I dunno if this has been said, but I am thinking this is going to make emp vs infestor lolworthy though. Since an emp will get like 2? But thats ok I guess. When you go ghost in TvZ you go lots traditionally.
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On November 08 2011 12:26 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:22 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:21 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:19 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:14 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:13 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:12 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:10 ReignFayth wrote:
[quote]
dude if you don't like how ur fucking race works, JUST SWITCH
for fuck sake u're not even complaining about balance right now There are some players for example me that absolutely dispise the other races they don't play and don't want to switch ... then don't fucking complain about ur race mechanics Why not ? There's plenty wrong with Terran ( and the other 2 races as well ) that need change.... oh so you think it's wrong that terran can be the strongest race when used optimally? you think the race should be dumbed down for stupider players to feel better about themselves? Thats not what i meant ......... . In an ideal game every race had plenty of ways to play that don't put you behind immidiatly , sadly thats not that the case right now. I want freaking variation and not the same shit all the time or you'll probably lose. so you just want more... options? isn't terran like the race with the most options? Yeah TvP is so full of options thats why every game of TvP that goes beyond ~15 Minutes looks exactly the same unless somebody plays some funky shit . yeah people generally wants to win, if you want to play a casual game don't play competitive SC2 games where did you get the idea that people don't want to win casual games as well? Just admit it, beyond some cute harass and openings, terran has less options in tvp than the other way around. It's a huge fucking bore
you can win with all kind of stupid shit in casual games so it's not even an issue..
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On November 08 2011 11:36 Eps wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 11:27 Snorkle wrote:
If the range on emp is still 10 instead of 9 ghosts will still emp templar before they can feedback/storm ghosts... not even mentioning snipe meh.
I still think feedback needs to be same range as snipe (10)
Something is better than nothing though. Ghosts are meant to be Anti-Caster units, that's what they do.
Ghosts are not pure anti caster, against zerg they have an incredibly powerful anti unit ability in snipe, capable of wasting ultras or broods in seconds. Against protoss they have what is essentially a modified isnta-damage no dodgeable psi storm which only damages shields.
They are hybrid units in the same way templar are. Infact, emp can be used both to damage protoss units and to take away energy, whereas feedback only takes energy, so techincally feedback is a more dedicated anticaster spell then emp. You cant say ghosts are anti-caster units and then say templar aren't when they have THE anti caste spell in the game.
They are both hybrid casters and neither should hard counter the other by having a longer range anti caster ability. they should be the same range so it is purely the skil of the players which determines who's casters win the caster fight.
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Show nested quote +Which means that what you really want is to be able to use a lategame composition all game long. Why is that any better than "an early/midgame composition all game long?" As long as the composition works, who cares what Tier it is? notice how I didn't use the word "tier."
Isn't it really the same thing?
mmm + v/g has always felt to me like an army that is not actually supposed to win in a 200 vs 200 fight against protoss, and yet it is somehow the ONLY way to play lategame tvp. It's a flimsy, really shitty army that'll die instantly if you make one small mistake.
Terran isn't Zerg. Don't even try to talk about flimsy or dying with one mistake, brah; you're out of your league.
It's one of the reasons I have a huge problem taking all the protoss whine seriously, because I know that the code S terrans who are able to beat protoss players with lategame ghost play or whatever really are doing a lot of things almost to perfection, just in order to not simply die to the first colossus swipe.
I honestly think this is how most players feel regarding their race.
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On November 08 2011 12:22 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 12:21 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:19 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:16 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:14 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:13 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:12 s3rp wrote:On November 08 2011 12:10 ReignFayth wrote:On November 08 2011 12:07 ZorBa.G wrote:OK, I must admit that I'm a sad Marine now. How come Terran doesn't get a powerful unit that we can simply a move with hardly any micro? Zergs get the broodlord, Toss gett the collossi... all in the meantime us Terrans keep getting nerfed and are expected to micro EVEN MORE! I used to do the 1 rax fe and 2 rax pressure fe builds against Toss..... I'm debating wether if I should now resort to doing the 1-1-1. If us Terrans keep spamming the 1-1-1 build, we'll just see more continous QQ from other races accusing us Terrans of being imba. I think we should just do the 1 rax fe builds now and hope to god we don't get nerfed even more. Hang on, what am I saying? No matter what Terran does, we will just keep getting nerfed lol. Screw it, I'm spamming 1-1-1 against every fkn toss now. I feel sorry for new players that are introduced to the game a couple years from now. It will be like, "Why the fuck do I have to micro so god damn much just to stay even with a toss or zerg army? They can just a move me!" I will reply "Well, back in the day everyone constantly QQ'd about the Terran race and basically blizzard just nerfed it into the ground, so don't bother with Terran.... just go play Toss or Zerg and simply macro a move " dude if you don't like how ur fucking race works, JUST SWITCH for fuck sake u're not even complaining about balance right now There are some players for example me that absolutely dispise the other races they don't play and don't want to switch ... then don't fucking complain about ur race mechanics Why not ? There's plenty wrong with Terran ( and the other 2 races as well ) that need change.... oh so you think it's wrong that terran can be the strongest race when used optimally? you think the race should be dumbed down for stupider players to feel better about themselves? Thats not what i meant ......... . In an ideal game every race had plenty of ways to play that don't put you behind immidiatly , sadly thats not that the case right now. I want freaking variation and not the same shit all the time or you'll probably lose. so you just want more... options? isn't terran like the race with the most options? Yeah TvP is so full of options thats why every game of TvP that goes beyond ~15 Minutes looks exactly the same unless somebody plays some funky shit . ... And it's not like that in every other MU?
Well how many times do you see a zerg transition in a game? ling to bling to muta to infestor to corrupter to broodlords or maybe ultras. He can also change it up and get roaches and hydras instead if he wants.
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EPT
