EPTPrize money, eSports, Lannisters - Page 8
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turnip
United States193 Posts
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Khanz
France214 Posts
On November 04 2011 08:14 Duravi wrote: If you cannot get the money to a player within 90 days and the player provided you with proper information for payment, then you should be paying interest on that prize money to the player. That would be a nice "business"-punishment  . | ||
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mighty_honour_korea
Scotland198 Posts
On November 04 2011 08:31 Khanz wrote: That would be a nice "business"-punishment .ESL had no intentions of talking about this subject in any way, shape or form until their hand was forced. Do you really expect them to implement self-impose fines? I really hope they get their shit together. The ESL serves an important function in esports, providing a linear path from beginner, to semi-pro to professional gamer all under a single framework. There aren't very many organisations like that around. It's a shame there aren't more. Nothing motivates a company to get their house in order quite like a competitor champing at the bit to replace them. | ||
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Duravi
United States1205 Posts
On November 04 2011 08:39 mighty_honour_korea wrote: ESL had no intentions of talking about this subject in any way, shape or form until their hand was forced. Do you really expect them to implement self-impose fines? I really hope they get their shit together. The ESL serves an important function in esports, providing a linear path from beginner, to semi-pro to professional gamer all under a single framework. There aren't very many organisations like that around. You would need some kind of governing body or union to enforce late prize payment penalties (or risk a player/team boycott of their events) or enough public outcry about how their prize money is paid late that it is starting to hurt their bottom line. Without a financial incentive they won't self impose penalties on late payments. | ||
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mighty_honour_korea
Scotland198 Posts
On November 04 2011 08:49 Duravi wrote: You would need some kind of governing body or union to enforce late prize payment penalties (or risk a player/team boycott of their events) or enough public outcry about how their prize money is paid late that it is starting to hurt their bottom line. Without a financial incentive they won't self impose penalties on late payments. Championed by who, the teams? Most of them pull the exact same shit, oftentimes they're worse. I don't believe there's any malice on the part of ESL, they're simply not paying the issue enough attention. You can't always say the same for teams. Sometimes it's incompetence, sometimes it's just bad luck, but sometimes is a vindictive ploy to screw someone out of what's rightfully theirs for personal gain or petty pleasure. An independent governing body that looks out for the best interests of everyone is a potential solution. However, there's no way anything resembling that would ever rise to power because there's no upside for teams or leagues to comply with their rulings. It only serves to disrupt their business in one way or another. | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
They should pay out the money to players right away and then they should wait 90 days for the sponsors to pay them back. They most likely wait for sponsors to pay them, so if the sponsors stiff them on money, they won't be out of pocket by paying the players in advance. | ||
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monkh
United Kingdom568 Posts
ps: I reckon the team that doesn't tell players about payments is EG, he said you'd be surprised so i think EG players with crazy salaries huge gaming house i think they would surprise me most for this. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
Anywho, it's good that you're being more open about this issue, but it speaks volumes about how bad the current system is when pro players have to go public on basic issues like these for tournament organisers to admit there are problems. | ||
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GoStyle
United Kingdom95 Posts
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Iblis
904 Posts
"You know we handle tons of things so we may take 90 days to pay people what we promise but it's no big deal they will get paid within 90days. People don't get anything even past 90days? Well not like we or you can do anything about that can we? We threw 10Millions$ to players already, will you get off our back already. And you know sometimes even if we don't screw you, your team, manager or teammates may screw you just aswell. I just got back from the offices with the paperwork guys and the accountant and told them to to the best they can at their work!" That was a lot of word and very little of to clearing things up a bit and sheding some light on the matter without any bullshit. Seemed more like doing Public Relations declarations just after the company you work for get some justified criticism on a serious subject. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On November 04 2011 07:16 Derity wrote: Speculation with the info from Clouds thread: Team Alternate... (Socke, DarkForce, Cloud) And Cloud was in MYM last year (not sure but i think they had also a record of not paying correctly) Someone earlier in the thread speculated that the issue was with IdrA. Worth noting that he placed 2nd at IEM Cologne in August, 2010, when he was still associated with CJ Entus. Since he left the team shortly thereafter, I could certainly imagine the money getting waylaid by the team. I'd also imagine a Korean team, as opposed to European or American, might be more likely to insist on the money being paid to them rather than the player. Pure speculation, of course, and I am not familiar enough with CJ Entus to have a sense whether they might do something like that. | ||
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
On November 04 2011 08:23 KAkos MAgos wrote: kind of strange that SK-gaming and mousesports never have problems with ESL but all the others have...... Well both of them are German organizations, which probably means less paperwork. I would like to point out something that's a little weird, cloud is member of German organization alternate. And something that is rather interesting is that the alternate sc2 manager (also known as TaKe) works for ESL? shouldn't he been aware and solved clouds situation long time ago? | ||
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lSasquatchl
United States309 Posts
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IMStyle
Canada52 Posts
Please keep in mind that esl is a profitable organization, they are NOT doing this out of good heart just to spread esports .. They ARE making money, otherwise they would not have lasted as long as they have. It seems like the culture of the company is focused more on organizing tournies, attracting more sponsors and paying their own employees over the prize payout to pro gamers. Its obvious that not everything is Carmacs fault and he is trying to assure people that esl is not intentionally holding pro gamers money, he's not saying pro gamers such as cloud and Grubby are lying. But it is also true that he isn't doing anything to speed up the payout process. Maybe more people need to be hired to handle all the paperwork. As for people saying we have to support esl for the growth of esports...that is obviously untrue too. Where there is market, sponsors and profits, there will be organizations that are willing to fill the gap.The fall of one organization leads to the growth or formation of another. I just hope pro gamers who voiced out these serious issues and concerns do not get punished in any form or way. | ||
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
On November 04 2011 10:00 IMStyle wrote: Its interesting how people are okay with getting paid 90 days after the date played. Tournaments should be like MLG and paid on the day of or at least within 2 weeks. They should not be hosting a tourney if they don't have the cash flow to do so . Please keep in mind that esl is a profitable organization, they are NOT doing this out of good heart just to spread esports .. They ARE making money, otherwise they would not have lasted as long as they have. It seems like the culture of the company is focused more on organizing tournies, attracting more sponsors and paying their own employees over the prize payout to pro gamers. Its obvious that not everything is Carmacs fault and he is trying to assure people that esl is not intentionally holding pro gamers money, he's not saying pro gamers such as cloud and Grubby are lying. But it is also true that he isn't doing anything to speed up the payout process. Maybe more people need to be hired to handle all the paperwork. As for people saying we have to support esl for the growth of esports...that is obviously untrue too. Where there is market, sponsors and profits, there will be organizations that are willing to fill the gap.The fall of one organization leads to the growth or formation of another. I just hope pro gamers who voiced out these serious issue and concern do not get punished in any form or way. Well 2 weeks is pretty much impossible in most countries so that's not a possibility at all. | ||
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Korok
80 Posts
Back in February 2010, my team had got 2nd place in this tournament: http://www.esl.eu/eu/ems/season5/dota I have yet to receive any prize money despite many of my multiple attempts to contact the administration and being promised payout. | ||
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Syben
United States512 Posts
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Delphi
Germany88 Posts
he says IEM Cologne (leaving that out), China and NY arent paid out yet. NY: 21.000$ + China: 21.000$ = 42.000$ ~ 30.413€ --> what Carmac refers to but there are way more ESL events which haven't been paid out only three examples: Torneo ESL StarCraft II in July (4 months ago), HasuObs #1, Socke #2 --> 9.350€ (~$13.370) ESL Pro Series Germany Season 17 (12 months ago) Socke #1, ClouD #2 --> 5.500€ (~$7595) ESL Pro Series Germany Season 18 (4 months ago) Socke #1, HasuObs #2 -->6.000€ (~$8285) --> only those three: 20.850€ (~$28792) im also aware of the fact that those didnt happen too long ago, but still, its just a fact that esl owe's players a lot more. but its nice that carmac is open to the community and explains the things, and i guess its understandable to some extent. im aware of the fact, that those three tournaments maybe aren't in the responsibility of carmac, but still they are ESL events | ||
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BWILLdur
United States100 Posts
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:16 (Max 20 chars) wrote: What does this issue have to do with haters or drama? It's a serious issue and problems with payouts do exist. Even Carmac wrote it. It just clears up why it's up to 90 days, which is a pretty damn long time. It also doesn't explain why it is sometimes much more than 90 days... But I still do love IEM events ect, so I wish you guys the best of luck ^^ | ||
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