• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:31
CEST 11:31
KST 18:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End6Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles0GSTL Returns in 2026!43Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Protoss AoE skill expression
Tourneys
https://www.facebook.com/LG.Breeze.UK/ 2026 GSTL Announcement PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WardiTV Mondays 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
ALAMAT BCA KCU PURWAKARTA Telp:08218200233 BW General Discussion SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 3/4 - soO Rush's Odyssey Controversy [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group B [ASL22] Ro24 Group A Small VOD Thread 2.0 CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6163 users

The Shield Buff in Numbers - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Roxy
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada753 Posts
October 26 2011 21:45 GMT
#81
IMO the problem with protoss is that it is weak when it ISNT in a ball

it is pretty good when it is in the ball
http://sc2ranks.com/us/941824/Roxy - Masters Protoss: "Respect my authoritai"
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
October 26 2011 21:50 GMT
#82
if we reduced stim's cost to 50/50, hey that's only 1 more marine or scv. but are you willing to accept such a stim buff?
Myles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5162 Posts
October 26 2011 22:21 GMT
#83
On October 27 2011 06:50 rauk wrote:
if we reduced stim's cost to 50/50, hey that's only 1 more marine or scv. but are you willing to accept such a stim buff?

That's a much bigger change as rushing for stim can be done much quicker then rushing for lvl 2/3 upgrades for toss.
Moderator
dragonblade369
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada464 Posts
October 26 2011 22:22 GMT
#84
On October 27 2011 06:50 rauk wrote:
if we reduced stim's cost to 50/50, hey that's only 1 more marine or scv. but are you willing to accept such a stim buff?


What? did you just compared the availability of stim with lv2 upgrades?
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
October 26 2011 22:30 GMT
#85
its not really the biggest deal but damn dude, I already feel like gateway timing pushes with +x are too good in pvz... At least the +1 isnt buffed so much. I know its for PvT tho. u guys get the shaft with EMP.
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
October 26 2011 22:31 GMT
#86
Nice to see the iron hammer of math and reason smashing down the over-emotional whiners.
Although I do wonder how much free time you have considering you bothered to do this much math for a relatively simple issue.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
ljdljd
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada15 Posts
October 26 2011 23:15 GMT
#87
If blizzard made +2/+2 upgrades free, do you think thats equivalent to 2 stalkers and some gas at the timing push?
You need to understand that units have more value ealier in time. A player need to allocate a percentage of resources to make units for defence or offence. The earlier they have the unit, the more valuable the unit is.
A player need to allocate a certain amout of their total income to units in order to survive or feel comfortable enough to survive. They will then save the remaining resources until they for an upgrade. When a player first starts an upgrade, thats the time it took them to save up enough money for that upgrade. Therefore, by cutting the upgrade cost from 100 to 75, the upgrade can be started when your "excess" money hits 75, which can be much sooner.
rpgalon
Profile Joined April 2011
Brazil1069 Posts
October 27 2011 00:52 GMT
#88
On October 27 2011 08:15 ljdljd wrote:
If blizzard made +2/+2 upgrades free, do you think thats equivalent to 2 stalkers and some gas at the timing push?
You need to understand that units have more value ealier in time. A player need to allocate a percentage of resources to make units for defence or offence. The earlier they have the unit, the more valuable the unit is.
A player need to allocate a certain amout of their total income to units in order to survive or feel comfortable enough to survive. They will then save the remaining resources until they for an upgrade. When a player first starts an upgrade, thats the time it took them to save up enough money for that upgrade. Therefore, by cutting the upgrade cost from 100 to 75, the upgrade can be started when your "excess" money hits 75, which can be much sooner.

yes, it equals 2 stalkers and 2 sentries, but that was not the case, why the hell are you using a 350/350 buff to compare with a 50/50 buff???
badog
The Final Boss
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1839 Posts
October 27 2011 01:35 GMT
#89
The problem isn't that it's going to break the game, the problem is that it's unnecessary and there is no reason for Blizzard to do it. Protoss already has the advantage with upgrades due to Chronoboost, they don't need some sort of incentive for getting more upgrades.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
October 27 2011 02:06 GMT
#90
On October 27 2011 10:35 The Final Boss wrote:
The problem isn't that it's going to break the game, the problem is that it's unnecessary and there is no reason for Blizzard to do it. Protoss already has the advantage with upgrades due to Chronoboost, they don't need some sort of incentive for getting more upgrades.


Blizzard might be trying to encourage more double forge play. IMO double forge is one of the safest ways to get through the mid-game on even footing with a Terran. Combined with the ghost nerf, if you spread well, they should be far less scary when there's just 2 of them(average 2base stim+1 ghost push).

I do agree though that it's a bit superfluous. I didn't really see the need for this buff.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
rEalGuapo
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany832 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-27 07:15:17
October 27 2011 07:09 GMT
#91
On October 27 2011 08:15 ljdljd wrote:
If blizzard made +2/+2 upgrades free, do you think thats equivalent to 2 stalkers and some gas at the timing push?
You need to understand that units have more value ealier in time. A player need to allocate a percentage of resources to make units for defence or offence. The earlier they have the unit, the more valuable the unit is.
A player need to allocate a certain amout of their total income to units in order to survive or feel comfortable enough to survive. They will then save the remaining resources until they for an upgrade. When a player first starts an upgrade, thats the time it took them to save up enough money for that upgrade. Therefore, by cutting the upgrade cost from 100 to 75, the upgrade can be started when your "excess" money hits 75, which can be much sooner.


The change does not make the upgrade available a lot earlier if it is 150/150 instead of 175/175 If I am at about 100/150 I will have to wait for 50 Minerals mined instead of 75.
It is true that a Unit's value is higher the earlier it is in the game(in general, this changes ofc with the amount of resources left on the map etc. etc.) But, if I am at 100 Minerals and 140 Gas, I will either decide that I need another Unit or that I can wait a little for my Upgrade.
The decision wether I need an additional Unit to survive or not has nothing to do with the cost!!


And as I wrote, this might give lower level players the idea of Upgrading their Units more. Which would influence the Protoss gameplay in a direction that is more Protossy. Namely: fewer elite Units!

150 Gas instead of 175 Gas is not gamechanging, since a +2 Upgrade requires a Forge, that brings no other advantage except for Cannons and +1 to be already researched, that pretty much restricts the point at which you can get +2 entirely. The cost are not as interesting for your decision when to research.
The cost are only determinating whether or not it is a good idea to get +2 in time for a certain push (again making this push come 3 seconds earlier but losing 3 seconds worth of mining time, thus hitting earlier with less units wich you can always make happen[cutting units for an earlier attack that is])



On October 27 2011 10:35 The Final Boss wrote:
The problem isn't that it's going to break the game, the problem is that it's unnecessary and there is no reason for Blizzard to do it. Protoss already has the advantage with upgrades due to Chronoboost, they don't need some sort of incentive for getting more upgrades.


First of all I made this Thread because hundreds of People screamed this Patch would make Toss unbeatable... Just wanted them to know what they talk about.

Saying Protoss has an Upgrade advantage because of Chronoboost is like saying Terran has one due to MULES. The Upgrades get cheaper if you calculate one or two Super-Harvesters that are almost free.
Zerg has a huge Upgrade advantage, I mean they do not need extra Production buildings, they can spawn 20 Units off of their 3 Mining bases with one tech building. Saves a lot of money for your Upgrades compared to building 3 Factories, doesn't it?

No. All 3 Races have a Macro speciality. Only because Chronoboost on a Forge can be seen compared to a MULE, that works in the Mineral Line, doesn't mean it is infinitely stronger.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
October 27 2011 07:19 GMT
#92
I said this from the start. I salute you for the effort you put into this. Some people really need to see the numbers before they are capable to think straight. And even then there are people who don't believe the numbers and believe in forces beyond these numbers that will make these changes imbalanced.
I had a good night of sleep.
Narxes
Profile Joined September 2011
Belgium11 Posts
October 27 2011 09:48 GMT
#93
You're right, the upgrade cost changes will have a very small impact on protoss strength. People fail to realize the upgrades are purchased at most once throughout the game.
It's not like the cost of zealots or stalkers has decreased or that their hit points have increased. That is what you can call major changes as the benefit of those buffs build up throughout the game.
assumption is the mother of all fuckups - Travis Dane
KOtical
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany451 Posts
October 27 2011 10:27 GMT
#94
im terran and i feel fine about the changes they made... as long as they dont make the building time of the upgrades shorter. Cause a shorter upgrade time + chrono would be to much! But the lower prics are ok imo! Also i dont think the way they nerfed the ghost now isnt the right one, but at least they try to deal with the problem...

at least protoss can now start upgrading the shield against zerg, coz imo the shield upgrade against Terran is still unusable, cause in lategame 3 to 5 ghosts emps still hit alot even with the range nerf...

kron0s
Profile Joined March 2010
Philippines57 Posts
October 27 2011 10:47 GMT
#95
On October 26 2011 23:46 mizU wrote:
Half a zealot. OMGGGGGGGG. Lol.
hahaha. this is hilarious. made me imagine frodo in a zealot costume.

i agree that this isn't game breaking. funny how many non-protoss players overreacted to this in the first place.
it wasnt me...
ljdljd
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada15 Posts
October 28 2011 01:51 GMT
#96
On October 27 2011 09:52 rpgalon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2011 08:15 ljdljd wrote:
If blizzard made +2/+2 upgrades free, do you think thats equivalent to 2 stalkers and some gas at the timing push?
You need to understand that units have more value ealier in time. A player need to allocate a percentage of resources to make units for defence or offence. The earlier they have the unit, the more valuable the unit is.
A player need to allocate a certain amout of their total income to units in order to survive or feel comfortable enough to survive. They will then save the remaining resources until they for an upgrade. When a player first starts an upgrade, thats the time it took them to save up enough money for that upgrade. Therefore, by cutting the upgrade cost from 100 to 75, the upgrade can be started when your "excess" money hits 75, which can be much sooner.

yes, it equals 2 stalkers and 2 sentries, but that was not the case, why the hell are you using a 350/350 buff to compare with a 50/50 buff???


Ok I'll take my +2/+2 upgraded 150 food army against your 0/0 army with a 2 more stalkers and lets see who wins....


Acnologia
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia410 Posts
October 28 2011 02:02 GMT
#97
thanks for the post, thats what i thought when i saw it. there's still people in this thread posting shit cos they arent reading the op properly. sigh
♥
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 829
Hyuk 560
Soulkey 347
Soma 274
Larva 249
EffOrt 153
ToSsGirL 115
Killer 104
Bale 47
sorry 40
[ Show more ]
sSak 28
Light 20
Rush 11
soO 10
Sacsri 1
Dota 2
XBOCT609
canceldota121
Counter-Strike
summit1g6308
shoxiejesuss1705
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King145
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr38
Other Games
ceh9656
WinterStarcraft416
crisheroes178
Hui .130
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick621
BasetradeTV36
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 10
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 32
• LUISG 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2342
League of Legends
• Rush1866
• Stunt581
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
29m
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
GSL
1h 29m
PiGosaur Cup
14h 29m
Replay Cast
23h 29m
Afreeca Starleague
1d
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Escore
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
The Patches Monday
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 4
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
2026 GSTL
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.