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I think the game should proceed as it is and let it even itself out. Dealing with ghosts in ZvT has not been explored enough yet and I'm sure there can be some creative ways to deal with it in the future.
We just need a bisu-zerg to come and flipp it all around and make the terrans cry imbalance again. 
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So does fungal, storm and EMP have the same radius now?
Im sorry if the answer is in the thread, but there are 80 pages so far... 
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I really think this is a mess...
If you look at Code S race dominance it is true that Protoss is weakest and Terran strongest but how should an average terran (Silver-Platin/Diamond) hit these tiny hts now? TvP was hard enough before as you had to hit the hts before they could land its storms... And as if this wasn't enough they are buffing Protss's upgrades which could be chrono boosted out much faster than terran ones before!
The upgrades also take a huge effect in PvZ as Zealots with +1 weapons only take 2 hits to kill a zergling rather than 3. As Weapon upgrades are now as expensive as a Sentry and a Stalker I believe the Protoss will think twice what to get...
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On October 26 2011 20:58 Teiwaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 20:53 leather gracket wrote:On October 26 2011 20:51 rEalGuapo wrote:On October 26 2011 20:44 trinxified wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 26 2011 20:35 leather gracket wrote:
these are really stupid changes...
notice that terran upgrades cost exactly the same as protoss upgrades but..:
the protoss ground armor upgrade upgrades 8 units +1 (worker):
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, High Templar, Immortal, Probe, Stalker, Zealot
the ground damage upgrades 7 units:
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, Immortal, Stalker, Zealot.
protoss shields: ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL UNITS AND BUILDINGS
but it's not just the numbers, it's that the unit it ugprades are ALL the units of typical standard protoss army composition.
compare this to terran upgrades:
Infantry Weapons: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine
Infantry Armor: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine, SCV.
.. and you can just count this as 3 units, because of reapers.
then terran also needs to ugprade mech just for hellion, tank and thor, and air just for vikings.. and building armor also costs yet another 150/150 upgrade (comparing that shields = building armor for P)
same stuff goes for zerg, but at least the ground armor upgrade is for all ground units
emp? no comment. why doesn't blizzard just remove T from the game? LOL.. what a clown. I'm not even a protoss player but I just found this post ridiculous. Sometimes I really wish I could "like" a post poor, poor immature community... no arguments whatsoever, just pure crying and flaming Sorry, but they are right. Your post is just ridiculous. Look at HP/SP distribution of Protoss units. Also buildings are 50%/50% HP/SP, so +3 shields ( is basically 1.5 armor for 675/675 minerals/gas (+ 570 seconds).
omg you're quite ridiculous. it's not that the shield upgrade it getting cheaper, it's that the normal upgrades for both, armor AND damage is getting cheaper as well.
and what about weapons? isn't it great to have all your units damage fully upgraded, then just having 3 units upgraded?
On October 26 2011 21:00 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 20:51 leather gracket wrote:On October 26 2011 20:41 Teiwaz wrote:On October 26 2011 20:35 leather gracket wrote:
these are really stupid changes...
notice that terran upgrades cost exactly the same as protoss upgrades but..:
the protoss ground armor upgrade upgrades 8 units +1 (worker):
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, High Templar, Immortal, Probe, Stalker, Zealot
the ground damage upgrades 7 units:
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, Immortal, Stalker, Zealot.
protoss shields: ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL UNITS AND BUILDINGS
but it's not just the numbers, it's that the unit it ugprades are ALL the units of typical standard protoss army composition.
compare this to terran upgrades:
Infantry Weapons: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine
Infantry Armor: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine, SCV.
.. and you can just count this as 3 units, because of reapers.
then terran also needs to ugprade mech just for hellion, tank and thor, and air just for vikings.. and building armor also costs yet another 150/150 upgrade (comparing that shields = building armor for P)
same stuff goes for zerg, but at least the ground armor upgrade is for all ground units
emp? no comment. why doesn't blizzard just remove T from the game? U mad? Seriously, I would have agreed to some parts until I read "Terran needs to upgrade mech just for Hellion, Tank & Thor". Hwat? That's all of your mech units o.O Top 3 Terran QQ. about the mech: I'm just comparing the races. the P buff will also affect PvZ. and btw, there are also people who play pure mech or marines + mech vs P.. just calculate how much it would cost to upgrade all the 3x2x3 +1 (building armor) = 19 damage/armor upgrades to have a fully upgraded biomech T army, whereas the fully upgraded "dream PvT" protoss army will just need 3*3 = 9 upgrades so you mean +3+3 Bio and +3+3 Mech? sounds like 12(3x4............) Upgrades to me -.- So you need 3 Upgrades more. Not 10. BUT you must take in account that no Protoss unit has Armour on their shields from the beginning, thus they have a maximum of 3 on it, not like a Unit that starts with say, 1 Armor that has 4 When fully upgraded. So to sum up you need 3 more upgrades as Terran but they fully affect 100% of your HP as compared to: 3 less Upgrades with slightly worse effects. That leads to: It doesn't matter for god's sake you cannot say that Protoss is OP because of their Upgrades, that is like saying terran is OP because they can repair. It is part of the race design. As long as it works well with the rest of the game it's fine even though it is different.
you can't count, or have no clue about terran. you forgot the +3/+3 air upgrades..
and where am I saying that P is OP? I'm not. I'm just saying that the future changes are stupid.
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On October 26 2011 21:05 Psychobabas wrote:So does fungal, storm and EMP have the same radius now? Im sorry if the answer is in the thread, but there are 80 pages so far...
82
you can always check the Liquipedia for these sorts of Questions!
The answer however is No.
Initially all 3 spells had Radis 2, Psistorm was nerfed long ago to 1.5
Now EMP may be getting nerfed to 1.5
Fungal still will have Radius 2.
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yeaaaaaaaaaaah make zealot archon way too strog and even stronger than it already is
omg blizzard thats just ridiculous why would you make 2Forge even better that makes no sense to me
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On October 26 2011 21:06 Qosmio870 wrote:
If you look at Code S race dominance it is true that Protoss is weakest and Terran strongest but how should an average terran (Silver-Platin/Diamond) hit these tiny hts now? TvP was hard enough before as you had to hit the hts before they could land its storms...
So you say that hitting with an AOE spell is harder than hitting with a single target spell? Yeah...
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On October 26 2011 20:59 Krejven wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 20:56 theBizness wrote:
yeah because you cannot build nydus outside of your opponents base... wait..
srsly you could make runbys way easier and connect bases etc.
Or you have a Nydus at his 4th base, to harras the third kinda like a proxy pylon with the possibility to retreat. Later if he moves out you plant another one, so you can attack his siegetank line from the back and the front.
Possibilities are almost infinite but you will propably never see that.
Plus what is that crap about if you order the drop its gonna drop, you can retreat back through Nydus. And if it gets spotted no one forces you to press "Unload"...
Oh and I have played about 300-400 Games as Zerg.
1. Nydus aren't free. You sound like Incontrol. 2. Their build + unload time is way worse than a medivac. 2. Medivacs serve a significantly useful purpose other than transportation. 2. Guess you better use the other drop option you have if that is the case. 3. Like a flying supply depot/pylon with capabilities to drop you mean?
dude no zerg is complaining about the nydus. it's only because of those deranged theorycrafters that think zerg players eat their pillow at night to calm themselves from the mysteriousness of nydus play.
it's only necessary to refute absurd claims about its functionality when they try to argue zerg has a goldmine of untapped strategies.
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They are promoting Gateway units by making them cheaper to upgrade and by nerfing the Ghost
The changes look fine, i wonder if we will see 3x Forge builds with mass chrono, some kind of 2-2-2 timing in upgrades.
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On October 26 2011 21:07 leather gracket wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 20:58 Teiwaz wrote:On October 26 2011 20:53 leather gracket wrote:On October 26 2011 20:51 rEalGuapo wrote:On October 26 2011 20:44 trinxified wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 26 2011 20:35 leather gracket wrote:
these are really stupid changes...
notice that terran upgrades cost exactly the same as protoss upgrades but..:
the protoss ground armor upgrade upgrades 8 units +1 (worker):
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, High Templar, Immortal, Probe, Stalker, Zealot
the ground damage upgrades 7 units:
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, Immortal, Stalker, Zealot.
protoss shields: ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL UNITS AND BUILDINGS
but it's not just the numbers, it's that the unit it ugprades are ALL the units of typical standard protoss army composition.
compare this to terran upgrades:
Infantry Weapons: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine
Infantry Armor: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine, SCV.
.. and you can just count this as 3 units, because of reapers.
then terran also needs to ugprade mech just for hellion, tank and thor, and air just for vikings.. and building armor also costs yet another 150/150 upgrade (comparing that shields = building armor for P)
same stuff goes for zerg, but at least the ground armor upgrade is for all ground units
emp? no comment. why doesn't blizzard just remove T from the game? LOL.. what a clown. I'm not even a protoss player but I just found this post ridiculous. Sometimes I really wish I could "like" a post poor, poor immature community... no arguments whatsoever, just pure crying and flaming Sorry, but they are right. Your post is just ridiculous. Look at HP/SP distribution of Protoss units. Also buildings are 50%/50% HP/SP, so +3 shields ( is basically 1.5 armor for 675/675 minerals/gas (+ 570 seconds). omg you're quite ridiculous. it's not that the shield upgrade it getting cheaper, it's that the normal upgrades for both, armor AND damage is getting cheaper as well. and what about weapons? isn't it great to have all your units damage fully upgraded, then just having 3 units upgraded? Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 21:00 rEalGuapo wrote:On October 26 2011 20:51 leather gracket wrote:On October 26 2011 20:41 Teiwaz wrote:On October 26 2011 20:35 leather gracket wrote:
these are really stupid changes...
notice that terran upgrades cost exactly the same as protoss upgrades but..:
the protoss ground armor upgrade upgrades 8 units +1 (worker):
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, High Templar, Immortal, Probe, Stalker, Zealot
the ground damage upgrades 7 units:
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, Immortal, Stalker, Zealot.
protoss shields: ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL UNITS AND BUILDINGS
but it's not just the numbers, it's that the unit it ugprades are ALL the units of typical standard protoss army composition.
compare this to terran upgrades:
Infantry Weapons: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine
Infantry Armor: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine, SCV.
.. and you can just count this as 3 units, because of reapers.
then terran also needs to ugprade mech just for hellion, tank and thor, and air just for vikings.. and building armor also costs yet another 150/150 upgrade (comparing that shields = building armor for P)
same stuff goes for zerg, but at least the ground armor upgrade is for all ground units
emp? no comment. why doesn't blizzard just remove T from the game? U mad? Seriously, I would have agreed to some parts until I read "Terran needs to upgrade mech just for Hellion, Tank & Thor". Hwat? That's all of your mech units o.O Top 3 Terran QQ. about the mech: I'm just comparing the races. the P buff will also affect PvZ. and btw, there are also people who play pure mech or marines + mech vs P.. just calculate how much it would cost to upgrade all the 3x2x3 +1 (building armor) = 19 damage/armor upgrades to have a fully upgraded biomech T army, whereas the fully upgraded "dream PvT" protoss army will just need 3*3 = 9 upgrades so you mean +3+3 Bio and +3+3 Mech? sounds like 12(3x4............) Upgrades to me -.- So you need 3 Upgrades more. Not 10. BUT you must take in account that no Protoss unit has Armour on their shields from the beginning, thus they have a maximum of 3 on it, not like a Unit that starts with say, 1 Armor that has 4 When fully upgraded. So to sum up you need 3 more upgrades as Terran but they fully affect 100% of your HP as compared to: 3 less Upgrades with slightly worse effects. That leads to: It doesn't matter for god's sake you cannot say that Protoss is OP because of their Upgrades, that is like saying terran is OP because they can repair. It is part of the race design. As long as it works well with the rest of the game it's fine even though it is different. you can't count, or have no clue about terran. you forgot the +3/+3 air upgrades.. and where am I saying that P is OP? I'm not. I'm just saying that the future changes are stupid.
well then you forgot the +3 +3 Air Upgrades for Protoss, I thought that was on purpose though. My apologies.
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Man can't wait for HOTS so that TvP can become a fun matchup again  (MECH! :D)
Those damn Chargelots are screwing me over ^^. The Battle hellion will come in handy
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On October 26 2011 21:09 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 20:59 Krejven wrote:On October 26 2011 20:56 theBizness wrote:
yeah because you cannot build nydus outside of your opponents base... wait..
srsly you could make runbys way easier and connect bases etc.
Or you have a Nydus at his 4th base, to harras the third kinda like a proxy pylon with the possibility to retreat. Later if he moves out you plant another one, so you can attack his siegetank line from the back and the front.
Possibilities are almost infinite but you will propably never see that.
Plus what is that crap about if you order the drop its gonna drop, you can retreat back through Nydus. And if it gets spotted no one forces you to press "Unload"...
Oh and I have played about 300-400 Games as Zerg.
1. Nydus aren't free. You sound like Incontrol. 2. Their build + unload time is way worse than a medivac. 2. Medivacs serve a significantly useful purpose other than transportation. 2. Guess you better use the other drop option you have if that is the case. 3. Like a flying supply depot/pylon with capabilities to drop you mean? dude no zerg is complaining about the nydus. it's only because of those deranged theorycrafters that think zerg players eat their pillow at night to calm themselves from the mysteriousness of nydus play. it's only necessary to refute absurd claims about its functionality when they try to argue zerg has a goldmine of untapped strategies.
yeah, because it didn't take 2 nerfs for the Infestor to get used regulary... O wait it did!
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Very good changes overall. EMP nerf was much needed and was a matter of time, only question being in which way it's going to be nerfed.
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On October 26 2011 20:53 leather gracket wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 20:51 rEalGuapo wrote:On October 26 2011 20:44 trinxified wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 26 2011 20:35 leather gracket wrote:
these are really stupid changes...
notice that terran upgrades cost exactly the same as protoss upgrades but..:
the protoss ground armor upgrade upgrades 8 units +1 (worker):
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, High Templar, Immortal, Probe, Stalker, Zealot
the ground damage upgrades 7 units:
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, Immortal, Stalker, Zealot.
protoss shields: ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL UNITS AND BUILDINGS
but it's not just the numbers, it's that the unit it ugprades are ALL the units of typical standard protoss army composition.
compare this to terran upgrades:
Infantry Weapons: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine
Infantry Armor: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine, SCV.
.. and you can just count this as 3 units, because of reapers.
then terran also needs to ugprade mech just for hellion, tank and thor, and air just for vikings.. and building armor also costs yet another 150/150 upgrade (comparing that shields = building armor for P)
same stuff goes for zerg, but at least the ground armor upgrade is for all ground units
emp? no comment. why doesn't blizzard just remove T from the game? LOL.. what a clown. I'm not even a protoss player but I just found this post ridiculous. Sometimes I really wish I could "like" a post poor, poor immature community... no arguments whatsoever, just pure whining and flaming
dude what is your point? blizzard have deemed toss to be UP and terran to be OP. so what if terran gets nerfed and toss buffed? that means that the game is now balanced. meaning that the game was deemed imbalanced before.
go ahead and call the community immature, when you are the one furiously whinging over his keyboard, saying things like "why not just remove terran as a race"
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On October 26 2011 20:47 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 20:43 TheDraken wrote:On October 26 2011 20:30 rEalGuapo wrote:On October 26 2011 20:00 TheDraken wrote:On October 26 2011 18:21 rEalGuapo wrote:
I still think that Zergs do not use all their abilities. I have seen SO FEW Nydus Networks in SC2. Seriously, you can move your entire army or a part of it ultra fast.
i doubt you play zerg. say blizz required that once you rally a medivac to drop, you can't control it at all. if you rally a drop, it's gonna drop. once you arrive to where you're going to drop, you need to make sure you have a 3x3 space before you sit there for 15 seconds. once your 15 seconds is up, the enemy gets an audio notification "TERRAN IS DROPPING FROM A MEDIVAC" as you unload your first unit. remember, you can't go back, and your medivac doesn't heal at all. if you want to retreat the enemy gets to kill your medivac. if you want to drop with two medivacs, you have to wait 15 seconds after your first medivac waits 15 seconds. or you could build two starports so you can have 2 medivacs at the same time. strange why a zerg would never want that. yeah because you cannot build nydus outside of your opponents base... wait.. srsly you could make runbys way easier and connect bases etc. Or you have a Nydus at his 4th base, to harras the third kinda like a proxy pylon with the possibility to retreat. Later if he moves out you plant another one, so you can attack his siegetank line from the back and the front. Possibilities are almost infinite but you will propably never see that. Plus what is that crap about if you order the drop its gonna drop, you can retreat back through Nydus. And if it gets spotted no one forces you to press "Unload"... Oh and I have played about 300-400 Games as Zerg. right. because i play against opponents who don't clear airspace around their base and don't watch the minimap. all the time. the entire premise of the tech relies on the opponent playing poorly, which is horrible game design. i'm not going to waste 100/100 just hoping my enemy won't pull a small group of workers to kill it. the nydus only works when you've either 1.) won the game 2.) have an opponent playing with shit map awareness. grats on having 300-400 games bro. i've got about 6 times that. Well Zerg is not my mainrace, I just wanted to have played it to know what I'm talking about/to understand it better. And playing a lot of games doesn't necessarily give you understanding of the game. I have friends that had like 7k Games in Warcraft 3 and I still would have won without a single unit lost even though I had about the same amount, propably one or two thousend games less. And:Please take the time to read my entire post before you comment on it. Oh and I'm not your "bro", pal!
clearly the goal was not accomplished.
and i'm glad we're pals and not bros apparently. <.<
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On October 26 2011 20:53 leather gracket wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 20:51 rEalGuapo wrote:On October 26 2011 20:44 trinxified wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 26 2011 20:35 leather gracket wrote:
these are really stupid changes...
notice that terran upgrades cost exactly the same as protoss upgrades but..:
the protoss ground armor upgrade upgrades 8 units +1 (worker):
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, High Templar, Immortal, Probe, Stalker, Zealot
the ground damage upgrades 7 units:
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, Immortal, Stalker, Zealot.
protoss shields: ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL UNITS AND BUILDINGS
but it's not just the numbers, it's that the unit it ugprades are ALL the units of typical standard protoss army composition.
compare this to terran upgrades:
Infantry Weapons: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine
Infantry Armor: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine, SCV.
.. and you can just count this as 3 units, because of reapers.
then terran also needs to ugprade mech just for hellion, tank and thor, and air just for vikings.. and building armor also costs yet another 150/150 upgrade (comparing that shields = building armor for P)
same stuff goes for zerg, but at least the ground armor upgrade is for all ground units
emp? no comment. why doesn't blizzard just remove T from the game? LOL.. what a clown. I'm not even a protoss player but I just found this post ridiculous. Sometimes I really wish I could "like" a post poor, poor immature community... no arguments whatsoever, just pure whining and flaming
Your whole post was a flamebait whinepost that needs to get deleted. You deserve no arguments.
On October 26 2011 21:08 Teiwaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 21:06 Qosmio870 wrote:
If you look at Code S race dominance it is true that Protoss is weakest and Terran strongest but how should an average terran (Silver-Platin/Diamond) hit these tiny hts now? TvP was hard enough before as you had to hit the hts before they could land its storms...
So you say that hitting with an AOE spell is harder than hitting with a single target spell? Yeah...
It is, because the single target spell is targeted and never misses, whereas you can miss with the AOE spell.
If you had ever tried, you'd know. I assume you haven't.
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On October 26 2011 21:10 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 21:07 leather gracket wrote:On October 26 2011 20:58 Teiwaz wrote:On October 26 2011 20:53 leather gracket wrote:On October 26 2011 20:51 rEalGuapo wrote:On October 26 2011 20:44 trinxified wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 26 2011 20:35 leather gracket wrote:
these are really stupid changes...
notice that terran upgrades cost exactly the same as protoss upgrades but..:
the protoss ground armor upgrade upgrades 8 units +1 (worker):
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, High Templar, Immortal, Probe, Stalker, Zealot
the ground damage upgrades 7 units:
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, Immortal, Stalker, Zealot.
protoss shields: ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL UNITS AND BUILDINGS
but it's not just the numbers, it's that the unit it ugprades are ALL the units of typical standard protoss army composition.
compare this to terran upgrades:
Infantry Weapons: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine
Infantry Armor: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine, SCV.
.. and you can just count this as 3 units, because of reapers.
then terran also needs to ugprade mech just for hellion, tank and thor, and air just for vikings.. and building armor also costs yet another 150/150 upgrade (comparing that shields = building armor for P)
same stuff goes for zerg, but at least the ground armor upgrade is for all ground units
emp? no comment. why doesn't blizzard just remove T from the game? LOL.. what a clown. I'm not even a protoss player but I just found this post ridiculous. Sometimes I really wish I could "like" a post poor, poor immature community... no arguments whatsoever, just pure crying and flaming Sorry, but they are right. Your post is just ridiculous. Look at HP/SP distribution of Protoss units. Also buildings are 50%/50% HP/SP, so +3 shields ( is basically 1.5 armor for 675/675 minerals/gas (+ 570 seconds). omg you're quite ridiculous. it's not that the shield upgrade it getting cheaper, it's that the normal upgrades for both, armor AND damage is getting cheaper as well. and what about weapons? isn't it great to have all your units damage fully upgraded, then just having 3 units upgraded? On October 26 2011 21:00 rEalGuapo wrote:On October 26 2011 20:51 leather gracket wrote:On October 26 2011 20:41 Teiwaz wrote:On October 26 2011 20:35 leather gracket wrote:
these are really stupid changes...
notice that terran upgrades cost exactly the same as protoss upgrades but..:
the protoss ground armor upgrade upgrades 8 units +1 (worker):
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, High Templar, Immortal, Probe, Stalker, Zealot
the ground damage upgrades 7 units:
Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, Immortal, Stalker, Zealot.
protoss shields: ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL UNITS AND BUILDINGS
but it's not just the numbers, it's that the unit it ugprades are ALL the units of typical standard protoss army composition.
compare this to terran upgrades:
Infantry Weapons: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine
Infantry Armor: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine, SCV.
.. and you can just count this as 3 units, because of reapers.
then terran also needs to ugprade mech just for hellion, tank and thor, and air just for vikings.. and building armor also costs yet another 150/150 upgrade (comparing that shields = building armor for P)
same stuff goes for zerg, but at least the ground armor upgrade is for all ground units
emp? no comment. why doesn't blizzard just remove T from the game? U mad? Seriously, I would have agreed to some parts until I read "Terran needs to upgrade mech just for Hellion, Tank & Thor". Hwat? That's all of your mech units o.O Top 3 Terran QQ. about the mech: I'm just comparing the races. the P buff will also affect PvZ. and btw, there are also people who play pure mech or marines + mech vs P.. just calculate how much it would cost to upgrade all the 3x2x3 +1 (building armor) = 19 damage/armor upgrades to have a fully upgraded biomech T army, whereas the fully upgraded "dream PvT" protoss army will just need 3*3 = 9 upgrades so you mean +3+3 Bio and +3+3 Mech? sounds like 12(3x4............) Upgrades to me -.- So you need 3 Upgrades more. Not 10. BUT you must take in account that no Protoss unit has Armour on their shields from the beginning, thus they have a maximum of 3 on it, not like a Unit that starts with say, 1 Armor that has 4 When fully upgraded. So to sum up you need 3 more upgrades as Terran but they fully affect 100% of your HP as compared to: 3 less Upgrades with slightly worse effects. That leads to: It doesn't matter for god's sake you cannot say that Protoss is OP because of their Upgrades, that is like saying terran is OP because they can repair. It is part of the race design. As long as it works well with the rest of the game it's fine even though it is different. you can't count, or have no clue about terran. you forgot the +3/+3 air upgrades.. and where am I saying that P is OP? I'm not. I'm just saying that the future changes are stupid. well then you forgot the +3 +3 Air Upgrades for Protoss, I thought that was on purpose though. My apologies.
well that must be taken into account for PvZ thats right, but not for PvT, cuz P usually doesn't mix air units into a macro game army vs T
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On October 26 2011 21:11 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 21:09 TheDraken wrote:On October 26 2011 20:59 Krejven wrote:On October 26 2011 20:56 theBizness wrote:
yeah because you cannot build nydus outside of your opponents base... wait..
srsly you could make runbys way easier and connect bases etc.
Or you have a Nydus at his 4th base, to harras the third kinda like a proxy pylon with the possibility to retreat. Later if he moves out you plant another one, so you can attack his siegetank line from the back and the front.
Possibilities are almost infinite but you will propably never see that.
Plus what is that crap about if you order the drop its gonna drop, you can retreat back through Nydus. And if it gets spotted no one forces you to press "Unload"...
Oh and I have played about 300-400 Games as Zerg.
1. Nydus aren't free. You sound like Incontrol. 2. Their build + unload time is way worse than a medivac. 2. Medivacs serve a significantly useful purpose other than transportation. 2. Guess you better use the other drop option you have if that is the case. 3. Like a flying supply depot/pylon with capabilities to drop you mean? dude no zerg is complaining about the nydus. it's only because of those deranged theorycrafters that think zerg players eat their pillow at night to calm themselves from the mysteriousness of nydus play. it's only necessary to refute absurd claims about its functionality when they try to argue zerg has a goldmine of untapped strategies. yeah, because it didn't take 2 nerfs for the Infestor to get used regulary... O wait it did!
So it wasn't the buffs that did it? Weird.
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emp is cool... but to balance it totaly they have to make bigger ghost model...
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On October 26 2011 21:11 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 21:09 TheDraken wrote:On October 26 2011 20:59 Krejven wrote:On October 26 2011 20:56 theBizness wrote:
yeah because you cannot build nydus outside of your opponents base... wait..
srsly you could make runbys way easier and connect bases etc.
Or you have a Nydus at his 4th base, to harras the third kinda like a proxy pylon with the possibility to retreat. Later if he moves out you plant another one, so you can attack his siegetank line from the back and the front.
Possibilities are almost infinite but you will propably never see that.
Plus what is that crap about if you order the drop its gonna drop, you can retreat back through Nydus. And if it gets spotted no one forces you to press "Unload"...
Oh and I have played about 300-400 Games as Zerg.
1. Nydus aren't free. You sound like Incontrol. 2. Their build + unload time is way worse than a medivac. 2. Medivacs serve a significantly useful purpose other than transportation. 2. Guess you better use the other drop option you have if that is the case. 3. Like a flying supply depot/pylon with capabilities to drop you mean? dude no zerg is complaining about the nydus. it's only because of those deranged theorycrafters that think zerg players eat their pillow at night to calm themselves from the mysteriousness of nydus play. it's only necessary to refute absurd claims about its functionality when they try to argue zerg has a goldmine of untapped strategies. yeah, because it didn't take 2 nerfs for the Infestor to get used regulary... O wait it did!
if by nerfs to other races, yes, i would agree. perhaps blizz will grant the nydus the same privilege some day.
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EPT
