EPT1.4.2 Patch notes PTR - Page 79
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Neurosis
United States893 Posts
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Slomo
Germany7196 Posts
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Wouldn't the ghosts be cloaked too, making the point moot? (I'm curious if the counterquestion to that is: "Wouldnt Protoss *always* have an observer with his army?" Although I wonder how far out the observer has to be, and it's actually not very hard to see observers, which makes it just a scan and shoot away from dying.) Meh. That's an argument in the style of "marines get raped by banelings, banelings get raped by tanks, tanks get raped by zerglings, zerglings get raped by marines" rinse repeat argument. Yeah, observers can be spotted and sniped, yeah this and that can happen. I made a direct comparison between snipe and feedback, nothing else. Honestly, I think people have been misusing observers badly in PvT, but that's regardless of the comparison. | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
so the real numbers are: 1.4.0 EMP = PI * 2^4 ≈ 12.6 1.4.2 EMP = PI * 1.5^2 ≈ 7 12.6 / 7 ≈ 0.56 1-0.56 = 0.44 the decrease in area is 44% | ||
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Teiwaz
Austria158 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:16 Dalavita wrote: While snipe is one range further ahead, it takes about a fourth of a second for the HT to cover that distance and the feedback ability is instant, whereas snipe has an animation, and you need two to kill the HT. You mean the 0 energy HT who can't feedback 'cause he got EMP'd at range 11 and can't outrun shit 'cause he's slow as fuck? Yeah  | ||
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Krejven
Sweden105 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:17 Teiwaz wrote: Dude... 1.) 9+x is often times greater than 9 2.) 75HP Marines? Seriously? 3.) Not even Bronze players take a full storm. First yes I was apparently wrong that the base range is 10 and not 9 we have concluded that. However I said BASE range, not total effective range, as you can tell by me mentioning you add the radius. Secondly the 75 is the aoe dmg of the storm, not how much dmg the MM ball takes. If 10 targets get hit by a storm the max dmg they can take is 750. I did however say that if in a more likely case the terran player micros out of the storm after half of the duration it still does 375 dmg. To answer your third statement: no they do not which is why I made a more likely scenario of them being hit for only half the duration. | ||
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Shade_FR
France378 Posts
The Protoss race can already Chrono Boost their upgrades to gain an advantage over the other races. I am not sure why Blizzard made this change. I kinda agree with the Shield Upgrade but buffing Protoss Ground Upgrade makes no sense. | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:26 Teiwaz wrote: You mean the 0 energy HT who can't feedback 'cause he got EMP'd at range 11 and can't outrun shit 'cause he's slow as fuck? Yeah Hell. If you use up 75+50 energy to kill a single HT, that could be the be worst usage of your ghosts energy possible, when blanketing the opponents army is more important. And if that 1 range takes a fourth of a second to cover, two range would take half a second to cover. (and that's only if the emp would hit at the absolute edge of its radius) Also, warp prism ferrying. | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:00 TheDraken wrote: i doubt you play zerg. say blizz required that once you rally a medivac to drop, you can't control it at all. if you rally a drop, it's gonna drop. once you arrive to where you're going to drop, you need to make sure you have a 3x3 space before you sit there for 15 seconds. once your 15 seconds is up, the enemy gets an audio notification "TERRAN IS DROPPING FROM A MEDIVAC" as you unload your first unit. remember, you can't go back, and your medivac doesn't heal at all. if you want to retreat the enemy gets to kill your medivac. if you want to drop with two medivacs, you have to wait 15 seconds after your first medivac waits 15 seconds. or you could build two starports so you can have 2 medivacs at the same time. strange why a zerg would never want that. yeah because you cannot build nydus outside of your opponents base... wait.. srsly you could make runbys way easier and connect bases etc. Or you have a Nydus at his 4th base, to harras the third kinda like a proxy pylon with the possibility to retreat. Later if he moves out you plant another one, so you can attack his siegetank line from the back and the front. Possibilities are almost infinite but you will propably never see that. Plus what is that crap about if you order the drop its gonna drop, you can retreat back through Nydus. And if it gets spotted no one forces you to press "Unload"... Oh and I have played about 300-400 Games as Zerg. | ||
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Krejven
Sweden105 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:18 Roblin wrote: at times it is better to do 135 damage to a single unit fast than it is to do 75 damage to 5 units slowly, think ultralisk: it dies of 8 consecutive storms (600 energy = 4 HT (because each HT can only use 150 of its energy)) which take 32 seconds or it dies of 12 snipes (250 energy = 2 ghosts) which takes 2-3 seconds assuming only 2 ghosts are around to snipe (having 12 ghosts with 25 energy each would kill the ultralisk in a fraction of a second) That's the whole point, it's who different skills with different uses. One is aoe and the other is singletarget. Should the snipe ability do less single target dps compared to storm or fungalgrowth? | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:28 Shade_CsT wrote: The following units benefit from the Ground Protoss upgrades :
The Protoss race can already Chrono Boost their upgrades to gain an advantage over the other races. I am not sure why Blizzard made this change. I kinda agree with the Shield Upgrade but buffing Protoss Ground Upgrade makes no sense. The change in cost to armor gives us enough resources to make a probe and a half by the time we start +3. | ||
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DrPhilOfdOOm
Sweden353 Posts
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Fyodor
Canada971 Posts
yep lol. more like 50% less area? | ||
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Teiwaz
Austria158 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:27 Krejven wrote: First yes I was apparently wrong that the base range is 10 and not 9 we have concluded that. However I said BASE range, not total effective range, as you can tell by me mentioning you add the radius. Secondly the 75 is the aoe dmg of the storm, not how much dmg the MM ball takes. If 10 targets get hit by a storm the max dmg they can take is 750. I did however say that if in a more likely case the terran player micros out of the storm after half of the duration it still does 375 dmg. To answer your third statement: no they do not which is why I made a more likely scenario of them being hit for only half the duration. 375 dmg for 75 energy - that's 5 dpe (damage per energy). Taking into account that the HT is 1.) very slow and has 2.) no other form of attack at least I think 5 dpe is ok for an AOE spell. | ||
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Serashin
235 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Wouldn't the ghosts be cloaked too, making the point moot? (I'm curious if the counterquestion to that is: "Wouldnt Protoss *always* have an observer with his army?" Although I wonder how far out the observer has to be, and it's actually not very hard to see observers, which makes it just a scan and shoot away from dying.) it is impossible to keep observers within range to detect ghosts without being save from scan sniping. that is one of the biggest flaws in PvT , Scan has no counter. I and other protosses thus tried it with cannons and still not enough not to mention if you think further nothing stops terran from placing a nuke vs static defense , if it comes to the point that he is forced to move out in order to get the ghost another ghost has outranging snipe or emp . collosus wont do to get rid of it because of vikings or even in speacial cirumstances tanks + a wall . I also dont need to mention lift which makes Terran the only race having it. Id like for HoTS a abbility on Nexus that allows teleporting it in order to save it vs abusive timing pushes that just work vs natural assault and not vs ramp assault. this way blizzard can rethink of a new unit other then the replicator i dont like this unit at all. HoTS will also introduce no more high / lowground powering of pylon energy . The current situation , the future and the past was never shiny for Protoss all new players i either recomend to switch to other games wich allow you to play vs all avaible stuff or dont pick Protoss if you want be succesfull. E: Cannons are the static defence with lowest detection radius , without reasonable explanation. This lowest detection radius makes it also impossible to see banshees within range to defend mineral patches with 1 cannon , 2 cannnons cost to much . | ||
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leather gracket
51 Posts
notice that terran upgrades cost exactly the same as protoss upgrades but..: the protoss ground armor upgrade upgrades 8 units +1 (worker): Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, High Templar, Immortal, Probe, Stalker, Zealot the ground damage upgrades 7 units: Archon, Colossus, Dark Templar, Sentry, Immortal, Stalker, Zealot. protoss shields: ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL UNITS AND BUILDINGS but it's not just the numbers, it's that the unit it ugprades are ALL the units of typical standard protoss army composition. compare this to terran upgrades: Infantry Weapons: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine Infantry Armor: Ghost, Marauder, Reaper, Marine, SCV. .. and you can just count this as 3 units, because of reapers. then terran also needs to ugprade mech just for hellion, tank and thor, and air just for vikings.. and building armor also costs yet another 150/150 upgrade (comparing that shields = building armor for P) same stuff goes for zerg, but at least the ground armor upgrade is for all ground units emp? no comment. why doesn't blizzard just remove T from the game? | ||
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cleecks
Netherlands109 Posts
However, I really don't like the way they decided to drop the cost of the attack upgrades. Protoss can already get them the fastest with chronoboost, and only needs to upgrade it once to effect all ground. (as opposed to zerg with melee/ranged and terran with ground mech/infantry) | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:22 Slomo wrote: Great Patch for Protoss. If Blizzard would make the Stalker profit from weapon upgrades properly, I'd be happy. Imho, it's tough to balance Stalker without breaking PvZ. | ||
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Krejven
Sweden105 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:32 Teiwaz wrote: 375 dmg for 75 energy - that's 5 dpe (damage per energy). Taking into account that the HT is 1.) very slow and has 2.) no other form of attack at least I think 5 dpe is ok for an AOE spell. Compared to the ghosts 1.8 dpe and you seem to forget the archon is a pretty strong unit | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43768 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:22 Dalavita wrote: Meh. That's an argument in the style of "marines get raped by banelings, banelings get raped by tanks, tanks get raped by zerglings, zerglings get raped by marines" rinse repeat argument. Yeah, observers can be spotted and sniped, yeah this and that can happen. I made a direct comparison between snipe and feedback, nothing else. Honestly, I think people have been misusing observers badly in PvT, but that's regardless of the comparison. I just don't think you can do that in a vacuum, because there exist other variables (like scans and observers)... especially since it's so easy to make ghosts essentially invulnerable in this situation. And I don't think it's really a problem of misusing observers (I'm a Protoss player and I've been trying to work this out). But okay ^^ On October 26 2011 20:34 Serashin wrote: it is impossible to keep observers within range to detect ghosts without being save from scan sniping. that is one of the biggest flaws in PvT , Scan has no counter. I think that's a problem too. Scans vs. Observers. Perfect detection (provided enough energy, of course) vs. easy-to-kill detection (once detected... yet not hard to notice). | ||
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