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Italy12246 Posts
On October 26 2011 19:56 Krejven wrote:
So many people who for some reason belive ghosts emp and snipe have range 10 as base. NO they have 9 in range same as storm and fungal, together with the radius it is still the same as fungal and storm.
Snipe is same range as feedback and broodlord attack, 9, so stop saying it is op because it has longer range than feedback because it's a lie.
Not. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ghost. Get your facts straight next time please. Also EMP is aoe which further adds to its range compared to Feedback.
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On October 26 2011 20:02 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 19:56 Krejven wrote:
So many people who for some reason belive ghosts emp and snipe have range 10 as base. NO they have 9 in range same as storm and fungal, together with the radius it is still the same as fungal and storm.
Snipe is same range as feedback and broodlord attack, 9, so stop saying it is op because it has longer range than feedback because it's a lie. Not. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ghost. Get your facts straight next time please. Also EMP is aoe which further adds to its range compared to Feedback.
Don't talk to people who can't even do basic math.
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Compare the future costs of the forge upgrades with the Zerg evolution chamber upgrades, then you know where this idea comes from.
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been begging for this emp nerf since beta (and i play random), feel so happy its finally happened.
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On October 26 2011 20:05 Teiwaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 20:02 Teoita wrote:On October 26 2011 19:56 Krejven wrote:
So many people who for some reason belive ghosts emp and snipe have range 10 as base. NO they have 9 in range same as storm and fungal, together with the radius it is still the same as fungal and storm.
Snipe is same range as feedback and broodlord attack, 9, so stop saying it is op because it has longer range than feedback because it's a lie. Not. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ghost. Get your facts straight next time please. Also EMP is aoe which further adds to its range compared to Feedback. Don't talk to people who can't even do basic math.
Or to people who are unaware of the difference between mathematics and misinformation.
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On October 26 2011 19:56 Krejven wrote:
So many people who for some reason belive ghosts emp and snipe have range 10 as base. NO they have 9 in range same as storm and fungal, together with the radius it is still the same as fungal and storm.
Snipe is same range as feedback and broodlord attack, 9, so stop saying it is op because it has longer range than feedback because it's a lie.
right. because you can keep your zerg army next to your broodlords so that when the ghost uses snipe you can kill the snipe before it touches your broodlord.
glad i can keep my 300/250 unit so safe against an invisible 200/100 unit.
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On October 26 2011 19:57 Teiwaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 19:38 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 26 2011 19:28 Brutalisk_SC1 wrote:
The terran change makes sense. The forge change does not...
Most 4-gate blink strategies focus on also getting 2 attack upgrades on those stalkers. They've made it now even easier to do so.
The Shield cost decrease would help those who use Immos early on, as a shield upgrade, especially early in the game will greatly increase the survivability of an Immo.
Does anyone know why Blizz opted to make these upgrades cheaper?
(BTW random question: is there a way to change my username in the forum? The Edit Profile doesn't seem to have that option) To try and make Protoss a little more cost-efficient with the upgrades, because Blizzard admitted that Protoss was feeling generally weaker (not surprisingly). Protoss shield upgrades never gets touched (even +1 is a bit of an investment early on), and keep in mind that although armor generally works on all Protoss units (as opposed to just ground or just air), it only works on the health- not the shields. Protoss upgrades used to cost more than the Terran or Zerg upgrades. Now, they're costing a normal amount. Not that saving a few minerals or gas (especially when you're off multiple bases) will really do anything gamebreaking (in reality, it'll allow Protoss to start the higher upgrades about 5-10 seconds earlier), but they wanted to lower the costs so that they're not as heavy an initial investment (especially shields). Quite frankly, they should have been these new costs from the beginning, in my opinion. Bold part - am I missing something here? Last time I played I'm pretty sure I upgraded air units at the Cyber Core. I'm fine with the changes. Upgrade costs are now more balanced overall and for the EMP radius we have to see how it plays out. Still waiting for Snipe (terrible, terrible damage for almost no cost) and EMP range (outrangeing supposed counter spell by far?) nerfs.
Ah you're right- my mistake on the air part. What I meant to say is that the robo and gateway tech both benefit from the ground armor (or air if flying), whereas the Terran needs to each upgrade two separate things (infantry or mech) and the ground weapons of the Zerg need to be upgraded separately (melee or missile). But then the fact that Protoss armor only covers half the unit's total health (the other upgrade being shields) causes everything to balance out anyway. Nice catch ^^
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Pretty awesome changes for protoss man.. No excuses for Protoss to be behind on upgrades now, with this chrono boost and this change
Looking forward to see how this will work
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Yet again a patch that slightly improves the game, but takes a big circle around the real issues.
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I am happy for my protoss friends in the sense that they can now fight against terran in a lategame scenario.
However. I strongly question the logic of fast protoss upgrades in a ZvP point of view. Protoss units, especially colossi which are so effective vs zerg now (again), lets remember that what stalkers miss in weapons upgrades, colossi more than make up for. Colossi get +2 attack per upgrade level, and shoot twice per attack, so in effect +4 damage per upgrade level. This is disregarding zerg upgrades for a second - but protoss is aalready ahead most of the time in attack upgrades, and guardian shield + forcefield makes armor upgrades a waste of time. Now that armor is cheaper, the protoss ball will be even more durable. Currently when I play vs protoss they are +3/+1 by the time I am +2/+1, and with superior range and position advantage, forget about it. Ground based armies are not viable when colossi are on the field, and air based armies are not viable when blinkstalkers are.
I really hope that in addition to this, +3 upgrade for toss will require the addition of an extra tech structure. Currently zerg needs infest pit + hive before they can get +3, but protoss just needs the council (just the same as terran just needs armory). In effect this makes zergs hive upgrades 250 gas more expensive in down payment just to unlock them, compared to the other races... And every zerg t3 tech option does not mix very well with the "stable" t2 combo vs protoss at least.
Now for something different. Snipe vs zerg. Blizzard, now you have taken the first step to make ghosts "not gamebreaking" vs protoss. Why not do the same for us zergs? shift-R spamclick while cloaked seems abit too easy a way to demolish entire zerg t3. Waxangel said so himself.
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On October 26 2011 20:05 Teiwaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 20:02 Teoita wrote:On October 26 2011 19:56 Krejven wrote:
So many people who for some reason belive ghosts emp and snipe have range 10 as base. NO they have 9 in range same as storm and fungal, together with the radius it is still the same as fungal and storm.
Snipe is same range as feedback and broodlord attack, 9, so stop saying it is op because it has longer range than feedback because it's a lie. Not. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ghost. Get your facts straight next time please. Also EMP is aoe which further adds to its range compared to Feedback. Don't talk to people who can't even do basic math.
While snipe is one range further ahead, it takes about a fourth of a second for the HT to cover that distance and the feedback ability is instant, whereas snipe has an animation, and you need two to kill the HT.
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Italy12246 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:14 Arcanefrost wrote:
Yet again a patch that slightly improves the game, but takes a big circle around the real issues.
Well they can't exactly remove warpgates and forcefields with a simple patch, can they?  That mechanic is soooo badly designed it's not even funny.
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I like it. The ghost change was probably the best small change they could test, and the cheaper upgrades makes a lot of sense actually. There are already strategies that use a lot of fast upgrades, so this won't change how fast protoss can get them, it won't affect any timings (directly anyway), it'll just give protoss a little more resources for units to make their upgrade timings stronger. Good stuff!
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On October 26 2011 20:14 Arcanefrost wrote:
Yet again a patch that slightly improves the game, but takes a big circle around the real issues.
this
probably blizz wants to encourage more double forge play....
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On October 26 2011 20:11 Krejven wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 20:05 Teiwaz wrote:On October 26 2011 20:02 Teoita wrote:On October 26 2011 19:56 Krejven wrote:
So many people who for some reason belive ghosts emp and snipe have range 10 as base. NO they have 9 in range same as storm and fungal, together with the radius it is still the same as fungal and storm.
Snipe is same range as feedback and broodlord attack, 9, so stop saying it is op because it has longer range than feedback because it's a lie. Not. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ghost. Get your facts straight next time please. Also EMP is aoe which further adds to its range compared to Feedback. Don't talk to people who can't even do basic math. Or to people who are unaware of the difference between mathematics and misinformation.
Dude...
1.) 9+x is often times greater than 9
2.) 75HP Marines? Seriously?
3.) Not even Bronze players take a full storm.
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really love the way they are approaching this with small changes, such a relief (i used to play world of warcraft where they always overdid nerfs or buffs!)...
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On October 26 2011 20:00 Krejven wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 19:57 Teiwaz wrote:On October 26 2011 19:38 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 26 2011 19:28 Brutalisk_SC1 wrote:
The terran change makes sense. The forge change does not...
Most 4-gate blink strategies focus on also getting 2 attack upgrades on those stalkers. They've made it now even easier to do so.
The Shield cost decrease would help those who use Immos early on, as a shield upgrade, especially early in the game will greatly increase the survivability of an Immo.
Does anyone know why Blizz opted to make these upgrades cheaper?
(BTW random question: is there a way to change my username in the forum? The Edit Profile doesn't seem to have that option) To try and make Protoss a little more cost-efficient with the upgrades, because Blizzard admitted that Protoss was feeling generally weaker (not surprisingly). Protoss shield upgrades never gets touched (even +1 is a bit of an investment early on), and keep in mind that although armor generally works on all Protoss units (as opposed to just ground or just air), it only works on the health- not the shields. Protoss upgrades used to cost more than the Terran or Zerg upgrades. Now, they're costing a normal amount. Not that saving a few minerals or gas (especially when you're off multiple bases) will really do anything gamebreaking (in reality, it'll allow Protoss to start the higher upgrades about 5-10 seconds earlier), but they wanted to lower the costs so that they're not as heavy an initial investment (especially shields). Quite frankly, they should have been these new costs from the beginning, in my opinion. Bold part - am I missing something here? Last time I played I'm pretty sure I upgraded air units at the Cyber Core. I'm fine with the changes. Upgrade costs are now more balanced overall and for the EMP radius we have to see how it plays out. Still waiting for Snipe (terrible, terrible damage for almost no cost) and EMP range (outrangeing supposed counter spell by far?) nerfs. How much dmg does a fungal or a storm do to a pack of MM? If you hit 10 marines in a storm that's 750 dmg for the full duration, so let's say the terran reacts quickly and pulls it out in half the time, thats 375 dmg for 75 energy. How much of this "terrible terrible damage" do you get from 75 énergy? you get 135 damage in total, congratulations you can kill a roach.
at times it is better to do 135 damage to a single unit fast than it is to do 75 damage to 5 units slowly, think ultralisk: it dies of 8 consecutive storms (600 energy = 4 HT (because each HT can only use 150 of its energy)) which take 32 seconds
or it dies of 12 snipes (250 energy = 2 ghosts) which takes 2-3 seconds assuming only 2 ghosts are around to snipe (having 12 ghosts with 25 energy each would kill the ultralisk in a fraction of a second)
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On October 26 2011 20:16 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 20:05 Teiwaz wrote:On October 26 2011 20:02 Teoita wrote:On October 26 2011 19:56 Krejven wrote:
So many people who for some reason belive ghosts emp and snipe have range 10 as base. NO they have 9 in range same as storm and fungal, together with the radius it is still the same as fungal and storm.
Snipe is same range as feedback and broodlord attack, 9, so stop saying it is op because it has longer range than feedback because it's a lie. Not. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ghost. Get your facts straight next time please. Also EMP is aoe which further adds to its range compared to Feedback. Don't talk to people who can't even do basic math. While snipe is one range further ahead, it takes about a fourth of a second for the HT to cover that distance and the feedback ability is instant, whereas snipe has an animation, and you need two to kill the HT.
Wouldn't the ghosts be cloaked too, making the point moot?
(I'm curious if the counterquestion to that is: "Wouldnt Protoss *always* have an observer with his army?" Although I wonder how far out the observer has to be, and it's actually not very hard to see observers, which makes it just a scan and shoot away from dying.)
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On October 26 2011 06:34 Kava wrote:
Area covered by:
1.4.0 EMP: ~12.6
1.4.2 EMP: ~9.4
25% less area covered by each individual EMP. Not game-breaking but it will be more difficult for a terran to EMP your entire army as long as you're not letting all of your shit cluster up.
A = Pi * r^2, not A = Pi * 2r
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EPT
