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On October 26 2011 09:06 SolidMoose wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:01 Shiori wrote:On October 26 2011 08:54 The Final Boss wrote:
This makes no sense whatsoever. Protoss already gets their upgrades faster with Chronoboost, now they cost less, and our spellcaster is weaker. Blizzard makes absolutely no sense. I really hope that they realize that this doesn't balance the game, it just makes Protoss even more ridiculously powerful.
Late game PvT is so strong with upgrades and High Templar already, in no way does it need a buff. Protoss players just need to rely less on Colossi to a-move to free wins and play more like HasuObs and utilize High Templar more. You basically have to go MMMGV against Protoss (at least to have a reliable composition), and High Templar destroy that even if you only land one of two good storms (which can be reliably achieved if you take precautions against Ghosts, something a lot of Protoss players neglect to do...) then you can easily destroy that army. Then, if you have better upgrades you roll through the army easily.
It seems that Blizzard only does their balance changes based on Korea (which would make sense), except that every Protoss player I watch does some sort of one or two base timing attack and they don't even look to play late game. MC and other Korean Protoss players will continue to go 6 Gate or 3 Gate Void Ray and this will not affect them at all. Then outside of Korea Protoss players will continue to dominate every Terran they meet.
If Blizzard is going to nerf EMP then they should also nerf radius of Storm and Fungal Growth.
Terran armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will always lose to Protoss armies. Protoss armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will sometimes lose depending on positioning and control. Now double forge and Colossi are going to destroy everything and High Templar are stronger too. Really there is no point in this whatsoever.
TL;DR: Korean Ts are good, Korean Ps are bad. Outside of Koreans, Ts do badly, outside of Koreans, Ps destroy. P doesn't need buffs, they need to play smarter, stop doing timing attacks, and rely more on well controlled High Templar than a-moving Colossi. These changes make no sense, I'm just going to 1-1-1 every Protoss I meet on ladder. are you seriously implying professional protoss players only a-move whereas every terran bronze and up is a paragon of micro? grow up. ghosts were OP and EMP is still the best of the 3 spells. Because a spell that can never kill is better than a damage + snare and a massive high damage damage spell that can almost kill a marine twice over. No, emp was meh, now it sucks.
EMP does it's damage instantly from a fast, cloakable unit that has an auto attack as well as the ability to cast Snipe and launch Nukes.
Storm does it's damage over time at a (currently) smaller radius, which you can micro out of, from a slow, always visible unit with no other method of protection.
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On October 26 2011 09:04 nvs. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:03 biaxiong wrote:On October 26 2011 09:02 winthrop wrote:
what about psi storm?
Nerf already beta and amulet. 375 M and 375 Gas total savings, I would consider shield upgrades now. Ya, I forgot amulet too. Psi storm has already been nerfed to 1.5 and lost its energy upgrade. Let's leave it at that.
Yeah, it's not like instant storm anywhere where you have pylon was any good at all...
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On October 26 2011 09:09 Genome852 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:04 Arko.is wrote:The snipe ability needs a cooldown (5-10 sec should do it). Makes sens even  Yes because Protoss totally care about snipe in TvP... (energy spent on EMP is almost always better than sniping). If snipe had 10 second cooldown it would pretty much never be used in TvZ, and ghost would be even less useful in TvT.
It actually is an issue in TvP, since snipe outranges feedback and HTs are biological.
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Uhm ... wtf?
i mean i understand the shield upgrade change but the rest ... what the hell? Protoss upgrades are already so effective since they work on almost anything ...
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I thought the reason why their upgrades where so expensive was because of Chrono and because it affects a WIDE swath of their units at once as opposed to terran having to upgrade mech and infantry seperately. Protoss seems to be able to tech tree safely into any compostion where as terran has to pick 1 style or the next. Either way we will see how this change will affect the metagame.
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On October 26 2011 09:10 Mehukannu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:04 nvs. wrote:On October 26 2011 09:03 biaxiong wrote:On October 26 2011 09:02 winthrop wrote:
what about psi storm?
Nerf already beta and amulet. 375 M and 375 Gas total savings, I would consider shield upgrades now. Ya, I forgot amulet too. Psi storm has already been nerfed to 1.5 and lost its energy upgrade. Let's leave it at that. Yeah, it's not like instant storm anywhere where you have pylon was any good at all...
I never said it wasn't? Putting words into my mouth? Classic C- argumentation.
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On October 26 2011 09:09 Genome852 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:04 Arko.is wrote:The snipe ability needs a cooldown (5-10 sec should do it). Makes sens even Yes because Protoss totally care about snipe in TvP... (energy spent on EMP is almost always better than sniping). It wouldn't change TvP at all since HTs will still get sniped down with any excess energy left on the ghosts consider how low HP they have. If snipe had 10 second cooldown it would pretty much never be used in TvZ, and ghost would be even less useful in TvT.
Sniping Templar is effective as fuck, it's hardly any nrg and has no cool down, of course they care in tvp.
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On October 26 2011 09:10 Icemind wrote:
Uhm ... wtf?
i mean i understand the shield upgrade change but the rest ... what the hell? Protoss upgrades are already so effective since they work on almost anything ...
Again, by the time we have 3-0-3, we'll have saved up enough resources from the patch to build a stalker.
It's very, very small.
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On October 26 2011 09:03 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 08:54 The Final Boss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
This makes no sense whatsoever. Protoss already gets their upgrades faster with Chronoboost, now they cost less, and our spellcaster is weaker. Blizzard makes absolutely no sense. I really hope that they realize that this doesn't balance the game, it just makes Protoss even more ridiculously powerful.
Late game PvT is so strong with upgrades and High Templar already, in no way does it need a buff. Protoss players just need to rely less on Colossi to a-move to free wins and play more like HasuObs and utilize High Templar more. You basically have to go MMMGV against Protoss (at least to have a reliable composition), and High Templar destroy that even if you only land one of two good storms (which can be reliably achieved if you take precautions against Ghosts, something a lot of Protoss players neglect to do...) then you can easily destroy that army. Then, if you have better upgrades you roll through the army easily.
It seems that Blizzard only does their balance changes based on Korea (which would make sense), except that every Protoss player I watch does some sort of one or two base timing attack and they don't even look to play late game. MC and other Korean Protoss players will continue to go 6 Gate or 3 Gate Void Ray and this will not affect them at all. Then outside of Korea Protoss players will continue to dominate every Terran they meet.
If Blizzard is going to nerf EMP then they should also nerf radius of Storm and Fungal Growth.
Terran armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will always lose to Protoss armies. Protoss armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will sometimes lose depending on positioning and control. Now double forge and Colossi are going to destroy everything and High Templar are stronger too. Really there is no point in this whatsoever.
TL;DR: Korean Ts are good, Korean Ps are bad. Outside of Koreans, Ts do badly, outside of Koreans, Ps destroy. P doesn't need buffs, they need to play smarter, stop doing timing attacks, and rely more on well controlled High Templar than a-moving Colossi. These changes make no sense, I'm just going to 1-1-1 every Protoss I meet on ladder.
I was not aware that protoss are dominating outside of korea. I actually thought things were pretty even outside of korea.
If by even you mean that Jinro, Thorzain and the occasional foreigner T are being bashed by good foreigner Ps (Mana, Sase, etc.), then yeah, it's completely even.
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On October 26 2011 09:10 Icemind wrote:
Uhm ... wtf?
i mean i understand the shield upgrade change but the rest ... what the hell? Protoss upgrades are already so effective since they work on almost anything ...
Except the armor only works on the Protoss life, and the shields only work on the Protoss shield... so when you upgrade these, you're only upgrading half (very rough estimate) of your Protoss's health.
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On October 26 2011 09:12 petro1987 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:03 DoubleReed wrote:On October 26 2011 08:54 The Final Boss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
This makes no sense whatsoever. Protoss already gets their upgrades faster with Chronoboost, now they cost less, and our spellcaster is weaker. Blizzard makes absolutely no sense. I really hope that they realize that this doesn't balance the game, it just makes Protoss even more ridiculously powerful.
Late game PvT is so strong with upgrades and High Templar already, in no way does it need a buff. Protoss players just need to rely less on Colossi to a-move to free wins and play more like HasuObs and utilize High Templar more. You basically have to go MMMGV against Protoss (at least to have a reliable composition), and High Templar destroy that even if you only land one of two good storms (which can be reliably achieved if you take precautions against Ghosts, something a lot of Protoss players neglect to do...) then you can easily destroy that army. Then, if you have better upgrades you roll through the army easily.
It seems that Blizzard only does their balance changes based on Korea (which would make sense), except that every Protoss player I watch does some sort of one or two base timing attack and they don't even look to play late game. MC and other Korean Protoss players will continue to go 6 Gate or 3 Gate Void Ray and this will not affect them at all. Then outside of Korea Protoss players will continue to dominate every Terran they meet.
If Blizzard is going to nerf EMP then they should also nerf radius of Storm and Fungal Growth.
Terran armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will always lose to Protoss armies. Protoss armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will sometimes lose depending on positioning and control. Now double forge and Colossi are going to destroy everything and High Templar are stronger too. Really there is no point in this whatsoever.
TL;DR: Korean Ts are good, Korean Ps are bad. Outside of Koreans, Ts do badly, outside of Koreans, Ps destroy. P doesn't need buffs, they need to play smarter, stop doing timing attacks, and rely more on well controlled High Templar than a-moving Colossi. These changes make no sense, I'm just going to 1-1-1 every Protoss I meet on ladder.
I was not aware that protoss are dominating outside of korea. I actually thought things were pretty even outside of korea. If by even you mean that Jinro, Thorzain and the occasional foreigner T are being bashed by good foreigner Ps (Mana, Sase, etc.), then yeah, it's completely even.
Than lets turn it around. What are Terrans saying all the time? We got the better players man.
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On October 26 2011 09:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:10 Icemind wrote:
Uhm ... wtf?
i mean i understand the shield upgrade change but the rest ... what the hell? Protoss upgrades are already so effective since they work on almost anything ... Except the armor only works on the Protoss life, and the shields only work on the Protoss shield... so when you upgrade these, you're only upgrading half (very rough estimate) of your Protoss's health.
Shield upgrade affects buildings as well. Something to consider.
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On October 26 2011 09:10 Mehukannu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:04 nvs. wrote:On October 26 2011 09:03 biaxiong wrote:On October 26 2011 09:02 winthrop wrote:
what about psi storm?
Nerf already beta and amulet. 375 M and 375 Gas total savings, I would consider shield upgrades now. Ya, I forgot amulet too. Psi storm has already been nerfed to 1.5 and lost its energy upgrade. Let's leave it at that. Yeah, it's not like instant storm anywhere where you have pylon was any good at all...
And that is why it was nerfed? Same with how being able to cut nearly all units hp by half and prevent spellcasting before a fight is too good.
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This patch seriously confuses me. The EMP thing makes sense, as does the shield upgrade since it really isn't beneficial enough to justify the cost of the upgrade.. but lowering the weapon and armor upgrade cost of Protoss, which can already chrono boost upgrades and thus research them faster, seems pretty stupid to me. It doesn't fix anything, and it doesn't break anything. It just seems.. stupid.
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Immortal Buff was really nice in the last patch. These upgrades will really help Protoss be on more even footing in the ground war. EMP nerf will help although I would like if it did less damage to shields instead of a radius nerf, though I will take what I can get!!! Alright let us Rise Up! my Protoss brethren this is going to be our time to shine!!!
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To guys that complain about psi storm: The damage has been nerfed. The radius has benn nerfed. The amulete too.
And now that emp gets patched, you start to act like the world is going to end -.-
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This is pretty impressive. I think encouraging protoss players to get upgrades earlier will really help. Gateway units are not particularly cost effective relative to the other races. With upgrades in hand, and a few bucks in the bank to make a couple extra units, this could actually turn out to be awesome for everyone involved. Maybe we should wait and see before freaking out.
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To guys that complain about psi storm: The damage was nerfed. The radius was nerfed. The amulete too.
And now that emp gets patched, you start to act like the world is going to end -.-
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On October 26 2011 09:12 petro1987 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:03 DoubleReed wrote:On October 26 2011 08:54 The Final Boss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
This makes no sense whatsoever. Protoss already gets their upgrades faster with Chronoboost, now they cost less, and our spellcaster is weaker. Blizzard makes absolutely no sense. I really hope that they realize that this doesn't balance the game, it just makes Protoss even more ridiculously powerful.
Late game PvT is so strong with upgrades and High Templar already, in no way does it need a buff. Protoss players just need to rely less on Colossi to a-move to free wins and play more like HasuObs and utilize High Templar more. You basically have to go MMMGV against Protoss (at least to have a reliable composition), and High Templar destroy that even if you only land one of two good storms (which can be reliably achieved if you take precautions against Ghosts, something a lot of Protoss players neglect to do...) then you can easily destroy that army. Then, if you have better upgrades you roll through the army easily.
It seems that Blizzard only does their balance changes based on Korea (which would make sense), except that every Protoss player I watch does some sort of one or two base timing attack and they don't even look to play late game. MC and other Korean Protoss players will continue to go 6 Gate or 3 Gate Void Ray and this will not affect them at all. Then outside of Korea Protoss players will continue to dominate every Terran they meet.
If Blizzard is going to nerf EMP then they should also nerf radius of Storm and Fungal Growth.
Terran armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will always lose to Protoss armies. Protoss armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will sometimes lose depending on positioning and control. Now double forge and Colossi are going to destroy everything and High Templar are stronger too. Really there is no point in this whatsoever.
TL;DR: Korean Ts are good, Korean Ps are bad. Outside of Koreans, Ts do badly, outside of Koreans, Ps destroy. P doesn't need buffs, they need to play smarter, stop doing timing attacks, and rely more on well controlled High Templar than a-moving Colossi. These changes make no sense, I'm just going to 1-1-1 every Protoss I meet on ladder.
I was not aware that protoss are dominating outside of korea. I actually thought things were pretty even outside of korea. If by even you mean that Jinro, Thorzain and the occasional foreigner T are being bashed by good foreigner Ps (Mana, Sase, etc.), then yeah, it's completely even.
Look at all the recent tournament results, check the NASL standings, etc.,... Terran is starting to have problems with Protoss. Even without this patch,I do not think there will many Terrans succeeding in tournaments moving forward. Terran has started to be nerfed, and at the same time Protoss players have started to figure out how to play stronger games.
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On October 26 2011 09:04 Snaphoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:00 Nightshake wrote:On October 26 2011 08:54 The Final Boss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This makes no sense whatsoever. Protoss already gets their upgrades faster with Chronoboost, now they cost less, and our spellcaster is weaker. Blizzard makes absolutely no sense. I really hope that they realize that this doesn't balance the game, it just makes Protoss even more ridiculously powerful.
Late game PvT is so strong with upgrades and High Templar already, in no way does it need a buff. Protoss players just need to rely less on Colossi to a-move to free wins and play more like HasuObs and utilize High Templar more. You basically have to go MMMGV against Protoss (at least to have a reliable composition), and High Templar destroy that even if you only land one of two good storms (which can be reliably achieved if you take precautions against Ghosts, something a lot of Protoss players neglect to do...) then you can easily destroy that army. Then, if you have better upgrades you roll through the army easily.
It seems that Blizzard only does their balance changes based on Korea (which would make sense), except that every Protoss player I watch does some sort of one or two base timing attack and they don't even look to play late game. MC and other Korean Protoss players will continue to go 6 Gate or 3 Gate Void Ray and this will not affect them at all. Then outside of Korea Protoss players will continue to dominate every Terran they meet.
If Blizzard is going to nerf EMP then they should also nerf radius of Storm and Fungal Growth.
Terran armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will always lose to Protoss armies. Protoss armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will sometimes lose depending on positioning and control. Now double forge and Colossi are going to destroy everything and High Templar are stronger too. Really there is no point in this whatsoever.
TL;DR: Korean Ts are good, Korean Ps are bad. Outside of Koreans, Ts do badly, outside of Koreans, Ps destroy. P doesn't need buffs, they need to play smarter, stop doing timing attacks, and rely more on well controlled High Templar than a-moving Colossi. These changes make no sense, I'm just going to 1-1-1 every Protoss I meet on ladder. I just...completely agree.... Watch some GSL on GomTvT instead of deciding that your experiences in Platinum should guide Blizz balancing decisions. I'm glad you feel qualified to judge how good Korean Ps are-- could it be, though, that you just need to learn to play better against Protoss and that in fact T has a balance advantage over P? I would trust the experience of GSL Code S results since GAME RELEASE with the exception of MC over that of the ladder experience of a random TL poster.
mjwNshake 863 (master Terran)
Milkshake 558 (master Protoss)
Who said I was Platinum ?
I have the right to agree to something. Please stop talking about leagues, it's stupid, especially witht he fact that I'm master with both races, so I think i can be quite objective.
In face, PvT is quite balanced, but the metagame is just a huge disorder, where it's batlle between mass Ghosts/Vikings and mass Colossus/HT.
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EPT
