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On October 26 2011 08:54 The Final Boss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This makes no sense whatsoever. Protoss already gets their upgrades faster with Chronoboost, now they cost less, and our spellcaster is weaker. Blizzard makes absolutely no sense. I really hope that they realize that this doesn't balance the game, it just makes Protoss even more ridiculously powerful.
Late game PvT is so strong with upgrades and High Templar already, in no way does it need a buff. Protoss players just need to rely less on Colossi to a-move to free wins and play more like HasuObs and utilize High Templar more. You basically have to go MMMGV against Protoss (at least to have a reliable composition), and High Templar destroy that even if you only land one of two good storms (which can be reliably achieved if you take precautions against Ghosts, something a lot of Protoss players neglect to do...) then you can easily destroy that army. Then, if you have better upgrades you roll through the army easily.
It seems that Blizzard only does their balance changes based on Korea (which would make sense), except that every Protoss player I watch does some sort of one or two base timing attack and they don't even look to play late game. MC and other Korean Protoss players will continue to go 6 Gate or 3 Gate Void Ray and this will not affect them at all. Then outside of Korea Protoss players will continue to dominate every Terran they meet.
If Blizzard is going to nerf EMP then they should also nerf radius of Storm and Fungal Growth.
Terran armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will always lose to Protoss armies. Protoss armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will sometimes lose depending on positioning and control. Now double forge and Colossi are going to destroy everything and High Templar are stronger too. Really there is no point in this whatsoever.
TL;DR: Korean Ts are good, Korean Ps are bad. Outside of Koreans, Ts do badly, outside of Koreans, Ps destroy. P doesn't need buffs, they need to play smarter, stop doing timing attacks, and rely more on well controlled High Templar than a-moving Colossi. These changes make no sense, I'm just going to 1-1-1 every Protoss I meet on ladder.
I just...completely agree....
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YEAHHHHHHH GO BLIZZARD FINALLY A EMP NERF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On October 26 2011 08:51 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 08:50 KristofferAG wrote:
Those are some sick buffs to the protoss upgrades. I'm not sure it'll work out. Apart from the shield I can't say I agree. By the time we have 3-0-3, we'll have gathered enough resources to build a stalker.
lol, pretty much.
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On October 26 2011 08:48 partysnatcher wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 08:19 Alzadar wrote:On October 26 2011 08:13 EcstatiC wrote:
what the hell blizz? ground armor level 1 for zerg is 150/150, and now protoss gets level 2 for that? Keep in mind that Zerg Armor upgrades work on 100% of a Zerg ground unit's health, whereas Protoss Armor only works on anywhere from 66% to 2% of a ground unit's health. Keep in mind the Lair / Hive requirements for Zerg upgrades, and keep in mind armor bonus effects like guardian shield and immortals shield. This patch is bad because it assumes T as almost balanced, Z as good, and P as completely underpowered. Any idiot can see that P and Z are pretty much at the same level - before this patch. It's strange to me that Zerg basically got building health and roach +1 range from one year of whining, but when the Protoss QQ-cannons start bawling this insane buff is given. Very strange.
Lair/Hive talk is too race specific. P needs a TC and also needs to put a lot of minerals into building gateways instead of warping in units from the nexus/hatchery--it's no big deal, just different race mechanics.
Also, it boggles my mind that you're comparing a 25-50 gas through the midgame buff (and 375 through the 35 minute mark) for P to roach range +1. Without speaking to the incredible (and surviving) metagame shift toward roach play that occurred after that patch, it's easy to see that, for most units in sc2, a +1 range buff would be imbalanced (immortal 5->6 was fine, but immortal 6->7 would be incredibly broken as they could stand behind the stalker line and outrange bunkers with marines in them).
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Nice for protoss, this will help major. Specially EMP.
Only thing is now that they reduce the size of it, maybe they should allow the ebay to lift off, to use as a spotter. It's hard as shizz to emp templars already, lots of guess work I feel, I think it would help a ton.
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On October 26 2011 08:54 The Final Boss wrote:
This makes no sense whatsoever. Protoss already gets their upgrades faster with Chronoboost, now they cost less, and our spellcaster is weaker. Blizzard makes absolutely no sense. I really hope that they realize that this doesn't balance the game, it just makes Protoss even more ridiculously powerful.
Late game PvT is so strong with upgrades and High Templar already, in no way does it need a buff. Protoss players just need to rely less on Colossi to a-move to free wins and play more like HasuObs and utilize High Templar more. You basically have to go MMMGV against Protoss (at least to have a reliable composition), and High Templar destroy that even if you only land one of two good storms (which can be reliably achieved if you take precautions against Ghosts, something a lot of Protoss players neglect to do...) then you can easily destroy that army. Then, if you have better upgrades you roll through the army easily.
It seems that Blizzard only does their balance changes based on Korea (which would make sense), except that every Protoss player I watch does some sort of one or two base timing attack and they don't even look to play late game. MC and other Korean Protoss players will continue to go 6 Gate or 3 Gate Void Ray and this will not affect them at all. Then outside of Korea Protoss players will continue to dominate every Terran they meet.
If Blizzard is going to nerf EMP then they should also nerf radius of Storm and Fungal Growth.
Terran armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will always lose to Protoss armies. Protoss armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will sometimes lose depending on positioning and control. Now double forge and Colossi are going to destroy everything and High Templar are stronger too. Really there is no point in this whatsoever.
TL;DR: Korean Ts are good, Korean Ps are bad. Outside of Koreans, Ts do badly, outside of Koreans, Ps destroy. P doesn't need buffs, they need to play smarter, stop doing timing attacks, and rely more on well controlled High Templar than a-moving Colossi. These changes make no sense, I'm just going to 1-1-1 every Protoss I meet on ladder.
are you seriously implying professional protoss players only a-move whereas every terran bronze and up is a paragon of micro? grow up. ghosts were OP and EMP is still the best of the 3 spells.
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yei more nerf's for terran...¬¬
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If Blizzard is going to nerf EMP then they should also nerf radius of Storm and Fungal Growth.
They already did nerf Storm from 2.0 to 1.5
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On October 26 2011 08:58 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 08:56 101toss wrote:
150/150 shield upgrades?
Why would you ever upgrade air armor now? What, really? Every air unit has a lot less shields than health, go look it up (not counting mship)
Shield upgrades have the same cost and affects all units.
Air armor for all races is expensive for no reason, especially since attack is preferred(if they upgrade at all). They need the same treatment, and if you ask me it would be better if most upgrades did, terrans upgrade only bio to 3-3 and all races practically never research 3-3 air.
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On October 26 2011 09:00 Nightshake wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 08:54 The Final Boss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This makes no sense whatsoever. Protoss already gets their upgrades faster with Chronoboost, now they cost less, and our spellcaster is weaker. Blizzard makes absolutely no sense. I really hope that they realize that this doesn't balance the game, it just makes Protoss even more ridiculously powerful.
Late game PvT is so strong with upgrades and High Templar already, in no way does it need a buff. Protoss players just need to rely less on Colossi to a-move to free wins and play more like HasuObs and utilize High Templar more. You basically have to go MMMGV against Protoss (at least to have a reliable composition), and High Templar destroy that even if you only land one of two good storms (which can be reliably achieved if you take precautions against Ghosts, something a lot of Protoss players neglect to do...) then you can easily destroy that army. Then, if you have better upgrades you roll through the army easily.
It seems that Blizzard only does their balance changes based on Korea (which would make sense), except that every Protoss player I watch does some sort of one or two base timing attack and they don't even look to play late game. MC and other Korean Protoss players will continue to go 6 Gate or 3 Gate Void Ray and this will not affect them at all. Then outside of Korea Protoss players will continue to dominate every Terran they meet.
If Blizzard is going to nerf EMP then they should also nerf radius of Storm and Fungal Growth.
Terran armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will always lose to Protoss armies. Protoss armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will sometimes lose depending on positioning and control. Now double forge and Colossi are going to destroy everything and High Templar are stronger too. Really there is no point in this whatsoever.
TL;DR: Korean Ts are good, Korean Ps are bad. Outside of Koreans, Ts do badly, outside of Koreans, Ps destroy. P doesn't need buffs, they need to play smarter, stop doing timing attacks, and rely more on well controlled High Templar than a-moving Colossi. These changes make no sense, I'm just going to 1-1-1 every Protoss I meet on ladder. I just...completely agree....
If you agree with that you're not fit to comment on Balance in the first place.
Bringing EMP down to 1.5 Radius brings it in line with the already nerfed Psi Storm radius. On top of that, the Armor/Weapon changes amount to an extra Stalker and Sentry at 3/3/0
Even outside of Korea, in the professional level, Terran is still significantly above Protoss, and as we all know, balance shouldn't focus on mid-tier ladder play.
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United States7483 Posts
On October 26 2011 08:49 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 08:43 FabledIntegral wrote:On October 26 2011 08:42 Whitewing wrote:On October 26 2011 08:35 selboN wrote:On October 26 2011 08:32 Quasimoto3000 wrote:
Haven't blizzard statistic claimed pvt was p favored ? This patch confuses me /:
no The stats say exactly the opposite, and they've acknowledge repeatedly that it's heavily terran favored at the highest levels in Korea. Yet it's heavily Protoss favored in US/EU. And if a game's being played professionally for several thousands of dollars, you shouldn't balance based on ladder.
Actually, their stats suggest that it's balanced in US and EU, and they said as much at Blizzcon.
So unless you're calling Blizzard liars, they believe that Protoss is struggling at top level, and that they aren't OP at lower levels.
These changes look like the sort of thing that will make gameplay at the highest possible level a little bit more even between the two races, but will hardly make any difference in the slightest at lower levels.
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Chrono already lets toss get fast ups now reduce the cost? -_____-'
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On October 26 2011 09:02 winthrop wrote:
what about psi storm?
Nerfed from 2.0 to 1.5 in beta patch 7.
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On October 26 2011 08:54 The Final Boss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
This makes no sense whatsoever. Protoss already gets their upgrades faster with Chronoboost, now they cost less, and our spellcaster is weaker. Blizzard makes absolutely no sense. I really hope that they realize that this doesn't balance the game, it just makes Protoss even more ridiculously powerful.
Late game PvT is so strong with upgrades and High Templar already, in no way does it need a buff. Protoss players just need to rely less on Colossi to a-move to free wins and play more like HasuObs and utilize High Templar more. You basically have to go MMMGV against Protoss (at least to have a reliable composition), and High Templar destroy that even if you only land one of two good storms (which can be reliably achieved if you take precautions against Ghosts, something a lot of Protoss players neglect to do...) then you can easily destroy that army. Then, if you have better upgrades you roll through the army easily.
It seems that Blizzard only does their balance changes based on Korea (which would make sense), except that every Protoss player I watch does some sort of one or two base timing attack and they don't even look to play late game. MC and other Korean Protoss players will continue to go 6 Gate or 3 Gate Void Ray and this will not affect them at all. Then outside of Korea Protoss players will continue to dominate every Terran they meet.
If Blizzard is going to nerf EMP then they should also nerf radius of Storm and Fungal Growth.
Terran armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will always lose to Protoss armies. Protoss armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will sometimes lose depending on positioning and control. Now double forge and Colossi are going to destroy everything and High Templar are stronger too. Really there is no point in this whatsoever.
TL;DR: Korean Ts are good, Korean Ps are bad. Outside of Koreans, Ts do badly, outside of Koreans, Ps destroy. P doesn't need buffs, they need to play smarter, stop doing timing attacks, and rely more on well controlled High Templar than a-moving Colossi. These changes make no sense, I'm just going to 1-1-1 every Protoss I meet on ladder.
I was not aware that protoss are dominating outside of korea. I actually thought things were pretty even outside of korea.
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On October 26 2011 09:02 winthrop wrote:
what about psi storm?
Nerf already in beta and amulet got removed.
375 M and 375 Gas total savings, I would consider shield upgrades now.
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The snipe ability needs a cooldown (5-10 sec should do it). Makes sens even 
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United States7483 Posts
On October 26 2011 09:02 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 08:58 tehemperorer wrote:On October 26 2011 08:56 101toss wrote:
150/150 shield upgrades?
Why would you ever upgrade air armor now? What, really? Every air unit has a lot less shields than health, go look it up (not counting mship) Shield upgrades have the same cost and affects all units. Air armor for all races is expensive for no reason, especially since attack is preferred(if they upgrade at all). They need the same treatment, and if you ask me it would be better if most upgrades did, terrans upgrade only bio to 3-3 and all races practically never research 3-3 air.
VS terran, air armor is actually quite a bit better in terms of straight up fights. People just prefer +weapon because they don't want to use the units in a straight up fight.
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On October 26 2011 09:00 Nightshake wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 08:54 The Final Boss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This makes no sense whatsoever. Protoss already gets their upgrades faster with Chronoboost, now they cost less, and our spellcaster is weaker. Blizzard makes absolutely no sense. I really hope that they realize that this doesn't balance the game, it just makes Protoss even more ridiculously powerful.
Late game PvT is so strong with upgrades and High Templar already, in no way does it need a buff. Protoss players just need to rely less on Colossi to a-move to free wins and play more like HasuObs and utilize High Templar more. You basically have to go MMMGV against Protoss (at least to have a reliable composition), and High Templar destroy that even if you only land one of two good storms (which can be reliably achieved if you take precautions against Ghosts, something a lot of Protoss players neglect to do...) then you can easily destroy that army. Then, if you have better upgrades you roll through the army easily.
It seems that Blizzard only does their balance changes based on Korea (which would make sense), except that every Protoss player I watch does some sort of one or two base timing attack and they don't even look to play late game. MC and other Korean Protoss players will continue to go 6 Gate or 3 Gate Void Ray and this will not affect them at all. Then outside of Korea Protoss players will continue to dominate every Terran they meet.
If Blizzard is going to nerf EMP then they should also nerf radius of Storm and Fungal Growth.
Terran armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will always lose to Protoss armies. Protoss armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will sometimes lose depending on positioning and control. Now double forge and Colossi are going to destroy everything and High Templar are stronger too. Really there is no point in this whatsoever.
TL;DR: Korean Ts are good, Korean Ps are bad. Outside of Koreans, Ts do badly, outside of Koreans, Ps destroy. P doesn't need buffs, they need to play smarter, stop doing timing attacks, and rely more on well controlled High Templar than a-moving Colossi. These changes make no sense, I'm just going to 1-1-1 every Protoss I meet on ladder. I just...completely agree....
Watch some GSL on GomTvT instead of deciding that your experiences in Platinum should guide Blizz balancing decisions.
I'm glad you feel qualified to judge how good Korean Ps are-- could it be, though, that you just need to learn to play better against Protoss and that in fact T has a balance advantage over P? I would trust the experience of GSL Code S results since GAME RELEASE with the exception of MC over that of the ladder experience of a random TL poster.
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On October 26 2011 09:03 biaxiong wrote:Nerf already beta and amulet. 375 M and 375 Gas total savings, I would consider shield upgrades now.
Ya, I forgot amulet too.
Psi storm has already been nerfed to 1.5 and lost its energy upgrade.
Let's leave it at that.
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EPT
