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On November 02 2011 05:17 Snowbear wrote:
Those code S terrans attend other tourneys, and guess what? They don't dominate as much as in code S. Watch MLG, ESWC, etc...
Claiming that ESWC and MLG have as CONSISTENTLY high play as GSL Code S is just ridiculous, as is talking about the foreign Terrans when discussing the highest level of play. You are just yet another Terran, clutching at straws to shirk away from how absurdly good your race is at the highest level.
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On November 02 2011 05:06 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 04:04 hunts wrote:On November 01 2011 07:03 AIRwar wrote:On November 01 2011 07:00 []Phase[] wrote:
as zerg I wouldve liked a snipe nerf...
emp vs shields was a problem, but it isnt the only ability of ghost thats abit rediculous Snipe is a bit ridiculous imo.. I keep seeing games where Zerg has clear advantage but a few snipes insta-kills their key units for free basically.. =/ this! It just doesn't feel right that 1 unit (the ghost) can hard counter all of zergs lategame units (infestors, brood lords, ultras) very effectively and efficiently. It almost feels like zergs are forced to finish off a T before they are able to start making some ghosts because once ghosts hit the field it almost feels like the Z is punished for making their best and most expensive units. It just doesn't feel right that 2 units (infestor + broodlord / ultra) can HARD counter all of terrans lategame units (tanks, thors) very effectively and efficiently. I watched satini vs a zerg. Satini was on 2 more bases, and he had a HUGE advantage. Satinii had to turtle and couldn't kill his opponent. Why? Because you can't attack against infestor + ultra / broodlord. Satinii had AMAZING ghost control, but just couldn't attack. He had to turtle for an hour, then the zerg dried out. THIS worries me VERY hard. Everyone seems to forget this...
Are you really saying that infestors,tanks,and thors are lategame units? Also ghosts do seem to be too good vs protoss w/emp and zerg with emp/snipe. I mean what do you even need snipe for? If the zerg has broodlords you can go vikings, and if they have ultras you can go marauders which is easily better then ghosts for them.
inbe4 infestors killing the vikings..they would kill the ghosts too if you catch them, but with cloak + mass qued snipe it is just ridiculous.
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On November 02 2011 05:19 blacklist_member wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 05:14 freetgy wrote:On November 02 2011 05:11 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 04:55 rustypipe wrote:
How can anyone not say terran especially at high level of play isn't an advantage or OP. Just LOOK at the GSL numbers! its like 80% terran and when you are playing for money or a living you are obviously going to go with the race that gives you the largest % chance to win based on your skill. Even the server statistics show this especially on the Korean servers.
Terrans needed to be taken down a peg, not a large amount but just a little so ZvT and ZvP was a little more favourable or even.
Just look at CODE A GSL, MLG, ESWC and every other tournament! You will notice 2 things: - EU / NA terrans are DOMINATED, not DOMINATING (only thorzain and select are doing decent). - Z and P are doing extremely well. JUST LOOK at this (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) and tell me that terran is OP. + Show Spoiler +MLG with BEASTLY terrans like BOMBER, BOXER, PUMA, POLT, THESTC, ... ends in a PvP finals, and you dare to say that terran is OP? the highest level of play is Code S so arguing that second class terran players are not as dominating as they could be in the lower leagues means nothing for high level balance. Exactly this, Its like saying banelings are OP in the gold league because the terrans there can't split...
Yeah, tournaments like MLG are comparable to gold league... Code S players like polt, MMA, ganzi, Ryung, Bomber, ensnare and nada go to other tournaments, and you won't see them dominate there as hard as they do in code S. Why?
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On November 02 2011 05:23 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 05:19 blacklist_member wrote:On November 02 2011 05:14 freetgy wrote:On November 02 2011 05:11 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 04:55 rustypipe wrote:
How can anyone not say terran especially at high level of play isn't an advantage or OP. Just LOOK at the GSL numbers! its like 80% terran and when you are playing for money or a living you are obviously going to go with the race that gives you the largest % chance to win based on your skill. Even the server statistics show this especially on the Korean servers.
Terrans needed to be taken down a peg, not a large amount but just a little so ZvT and ZvP was a little more favourable or even.
Just look at CODE A GSL, MLG, ESWC and every other tournament! You will notice 2 things: - EU / NA terrans are DOMINATED, not DOMINATING (only thorzain and select are doing decent). - Z and P are doing extremely well. JUST LOOK at this (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) and tell me that terran is OP. + Show Spoiler +MLG with BEASTLY terrans like BOMBER, BOXER, PUMA, POLT, THESTC, ... ends in a PvP finals, and you dare to say that terran is OP? the highest level of play is Code S so arguing that second class terran players are not as dominating as they could be in the lower leagues means nothing for high level balance. Exactly this, Its like saying banelings are OP in the gold league because the terrans there can't split... Yeah, tournaments like MLG are comparable to gold league... Code S players like polt, MMA, ganzi, Ryung, Bomber, ensnare and nada go to other tournaments, and you won't see them dominate there as hard as they do in code S. Why?
weren't the last two tournaments before orlando both TvTs or have mostly terrans in top 6? Also even at mlg we see terrans just dominating.
people need to stop thinking that one tournament that ends in a PvP means everything.
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On November 02 2011 05:21 oogieogie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 05:06 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 04:04 hunts wrote:On November 01 2011 07:03 AIRwar wrote:On November 01 2011 07:00 []Phase[] wrote:
as zerg I wouldve liked a snipe nerf...
emp vs shields was a problem, but it isnt the only ability of ghost thats abit rediculous Snipe is a bit ridiculous imo.. I keep seeing games where Zerg has clear advantage but a few snipes insta-kills their key units for free basically.. =/ this! It just doesn't feel right that 1 unit (the ghost) can hard counter all of zergs lategame units (infestors, brood lords, ultras) very effectively and efficiently. It almost feels like zergs are forced to finish off a T before they are able to start making some ghosts because once ghosts hit the field it almost feels like the Z is punished for making their best and most expensive units. It just doesn't feel right that 2 units (infestor + broodlord / ultra) can HARD counter all of terrans lategame units (tanks, thors) very effectively and efficiently. I watched satini vs a zerg. Satini was on 2 more bases, and he had a HUGE advantage. Satinii had to turtle and couldn't kill his opponent. Why? Because you can't attack against infestor + ultra / broodlord. Satinii had AMAZING ghost control, but just couldn't attack. He had to turtle for an hour, then the zerg dried out. THIS worries me VERY hard. Everyone seems to forget this... Are you really saying that infestors,tanks,and thors are lategame units? Also ghosts do seem to be too good vs protoss w/emp and zerg with emp/snipe. I mean what do you even need snipe for? If the zerg has broodlords you can go vikings, and if they have ultras you can go marauders which is easily better then ghosts for them. inbe4 infestors killing the vikings..they would kill the ghosts too if you catch them, but with cloak + mass qued snipe it is just ridiculous.
Well, I had to say something, since there are no terran tier 3 units...
Broodlord + infestor combination is OP, like David Kim said in an interview. Then terrans used ghosts and now it's okay (but still imba imo).
Let me explain vikings vs broodlord infestor: you spread your vikings perfect and with alot of luck you win the fight --> gratz, the zerg switched to ultralisk and you have useless vikings.
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On November 02 2011 05:26 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 05:21 oogieogie wrote:On November 02 2011 05:06 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 04:04 hunts wrote:On November 01 2011 07:03 AIRwar wrote:On November 01 2011 07:00 []Phase[] wrote:
as zerg I wouldve liked a snipe nerf...
emp vs shields was a problem, but it isnt the only ability of ghost thats abit rediculous Snipe is a bit ridiculous imo.. I keep seeing games where Zerg has clear advantage but a few snipes insta-kills their key units for free basically.. =/ this! It just doesn't feel right that 1 unit (the ghost) can hard counter all of zergs lategame units (infestors, brood lords, ultras) very effectively and efficiently. It almost feels like zergs are forced to finish off a T before they are able to start making some ghosts because once ghosts hit the field it almost feels like the Z is punished for making their best and most expensive units. It just doesn't feel right that 2 units (infestor + broodlord / ultra) can HARD counter all of terrans lategame units (tanks, thors) very effectively and efficiently. I watched satini vs a zerg. Satini was on 2 more bases, and he had a HUGE advantage. Satinii had to turtle and couldn't kill his opponent. Why? Because you can't attack against infestor + ultra / broodlord. Satinii had AMAZING ghost control, but just couldn't attack. He had to turtle for an hour, then the zerg dried out. THIS worries me VERY hard. Everyone seems to forget this... Are you really saying that infestors,tanks,and thors are lategame units? Also ghosts do seem to be too good vs protoss w/emp and zerg with emp/snipe. I mean what do you even need snipe for? If the zerg has broodlords you can go vikings, and if they have ultras you can go marauders which is easily better then ghosts for them. inbe4 infestors killing the vikings..they would kill the ghosts too if you catch them, but with cloak + mass qued snipe it is just ridiculous. Well, I had to say something, since there are no terran tier 3 units... Broodlord + infestor combination is OP, like David Kim said in an interview. Then terrans used ghosts and now it's okay (but still imba imo). Let me explain vikings vs broodlord infestor: you spread your vikings perfect and with alot of luck you win the fight --> gratz, the zerg switched to ultralisk and you have useless vikings.
Then you realize you have a unit called the marauder that once you get like 6 of them they just destroy every single ultralisk. Also why the heck shouldn't a massive tech switch that a terran doesn't see be bad?
Also atm you can just build ghosts and counter both broods + ultras and infestor + broodlord.
also T3..battlecrusair.
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On November 02 2011 05:25 oogieogie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 05:23 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 05:19 blacklist_member wrote:On November 02 2011 05:14 freetgy wrote:On November 02 2011 05:11 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 04:55 rustypipe wrote:
How can anyone not say terran especially at high level of play isn't an advantage or OP. Just LOOK at the GSL numbers! its like 80% terran and when you are playing for money or a living you are obviously going to go with the race that gives you the largest % chance to win based on your skill. Even the server statistics show this especially on the Korean servers.
Terrans needed to be taken down a peg, not a large amount but just a little so ZvT and ZvP was a little more favourable or even.
Just look at CODE A GSL, MLG, ESWC and every other tournament! You will notice 2 things: - EU / NA terrans are DOMINATED, not DOMINATING (only thorzain and select are doing decent). - Z and P are doing extremely well. JUST LOOK at this (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) and tell me that terran is OP. + Show Spoiler +MLG with BEASTLY terrans like BOMBER, BOXER, PUMA, POLT, THESTC, ... ends in a PvP finals, and you dare to say that terran is OP? the highest level of play is Code S so arguing that second class terran players are not as dominating as they could be in the lower leagues means nothing for high level balance. Exactly this, Its like saying banelings are OP in the gold league because the terrans there can't split... Yeah, tournaments like MLG are comparable to gold league... Code S players like polt, MMA, ganzi, Ryung, Bomber, ensnare and nada go to other tournaments, and you won't see them dominate there as hard as they do in code S. Why? weren't the last two tournaments before orlando both TvTs or have mostly terrans in top 6? Also even at mlg we see terrans just dominating. people need to stop thinking that one tournament that ends in a PvP means everything.
+ Show Spoiler +MLG Raleigh: 1. bomber 2. coca 3. DongRaeGu --> 1 terran, 2 zergs
MLG Anaheim: 1. MVP 2. MMA 3. BoxeR --> 3 terrans, I agree here
MLG Columbus: 1. MMA 2. LosirA 3. MC --> 1 terran, 1 zerg, 1 protoss
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On November 02 2011 05:26 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 05:21 oogieogie wrote:On November 02 2011 05:06 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 04:04 hunts wrote:On November 01 2011 07:03 AIRwar wrote:On November 01 2011 07:00 []Phase[] wrote:
as zerg I wouldve liked a snipe nerf...
emp vs shields was a problem, but it isnt the only ability of ghost thats abit rediculous Snipe is a bit ridiculous imo.. I keep seeing games where Zerg has clear advantage but a few snipes insta-kills their key units for free basically.. =/ this! It just doesn't feel right that 1 unit (the ghost) can hard counter all of zergs lategame units (infestors, brood lords, ultras) very effectively and efficiently. It almost feels like zergs are forced to finish off a T before they are able to start making some ghosts because once ghosts hit the field it almost feels like the Z is punished for making their best and most expensive units. It just doesn't feel right that 2 units (infestor + broodlord / ultra) can HARD counter all of terrans lategame units (tanks, thors) very effectively and efficiently. I watched satini vs a zerg. Satini was on 2 more bases, and he had a HUGE advantage. Satinii had to turtle and couldn't kill his opponent. Why? Because you can't attack against infestor + ultra / broodlord. Satinii had AMAZING ghost control, but just couldn't attack. He had to turtle for an hour, then the zerg dried out. THIS worries me VERY hard. Everyone seems to forget this... Are you really saying that infestors,tanks,and thors are lategame units? Also ghosts do seem to be too good vs protoss w/emp and zerg with emp/snipe. I mean what do you even need snipe for? If the zerg has broodlords you can go vikings, and if they have ultras you can go marauders which is easily better then ghosts for them. inbe4 infestors killing the vikings..they would kill the ghosts too if you catch them, but with cloak + mass qued snipe it is just ridiculous. Well, I had to say something, since there are no terran tier 3 units... Broodlord + infestor combination is OP, like David Kim said in an interview. Then terrans used ghosts and now it's okay (but still imba imo). Let me explain vikings vs broodlord infestor: you spread your vikings perfect and with alot of luck you win the fight --> gratz, the zerg switched to ultralisk and you have useless vikings.
Use them to kill overlords, ultras doesn't attack air, so you get map control, also you can land them near the mineral patches when there are no ground units around, and do some nice harras
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On November 02 2011 05:37 Aborash wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 05:26 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 05:21 oogieogie wrote:On November 02 2011 05:06 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 04:04 hunts wrote:On November 01 2011 07:03 AIRwar wrote:On November 01 2011 07:00 []Phase[] wrote:
as zerg I wouldve liked a snipe nerf...
emp vs shields was a problem, but it isnt the only ability of ghost thats abit rediculous Snipe is a bit ridiculous imo.. I keep seeing games where Zerg has clear advantage but a few snipes insta-kills their key units for free basically.. =/ this! It just doesn't feel right that 1 unit (the ghost) can hard counter all of zergs lategame units (infestors, brood lords, ultras) very effectively and efficiently. It almost feels like zergs are forced to finish off a T before they are able to start making some ghosts because once ghosts hit the field it almost feels like the Z is punished for making their best and most expensive units. It just doesn't feel right that 2 units (infestor + broodlord / ultra) can HARD counter all of terrans lategame units (tanks, thors) very effectively and efficiently. I watched satini vs a zerg. Satini was on 2 more bases, and he had a HUGE advantage. Satinii had to turtle and couldn't kill his opponent. Why? Because you can't attack against infestor + ultra / broodlord. Satinii had AMAZING ghost control, but just couldn't attack. He had to turtle for an hour, then the zerg dried out. THIS worries me VERY hard. Everyone seems to forget this... Are you really saying that infestors,tanks,and thors are lategame units? Also ghosts do seem to be too good vs protoss w/emp and zerg with emp/snipe. I mean what do you even need snipe for? If the zerg has broodlords you can go vikings, and if they have ultras you can go marauders which is easily better then ghosts for them. inbe4 infestors killing the vikings..they would kill the ghosts too if you catch them, but with cloak + mass qued snipe it is just ridiculous. Well, I had to say something, since there are no terran tier 3 units... Broodlord + infestor combination is OP, like David Kim said in an interview. Then terrans used ghosts and now it's okay (but still imba imo). Let me explain vikings vs broodlord infestor: you spread your vikings perfect and with alot of luck you win the fight --> gratz, the zerg switched to ultralisk and you have useless vikings. Use them to kill overlords, ultras doesn't attack air, so you get map control, also you can land them near the mineral patches when there are no ground units around, and do some nice harras
You do realize that zerg will not just make ultras? Trust me, there is going to be lings/blings and infestors with the ultras and infestors are going to eat vikings alive with both fungal and infested marines. <_<
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On November 02 2011 05:21 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 05:17 Snowbear wrote:
Those code S terrans attend other tourneys, and guess what? They don't dominate as much as in code S. Watch MLG, ESWC, etc... Claiming that ESWC and MLG have as CONSISTENTLY high play as GSL Code S is just ridiculous, as is talking about the foreign Terrans when discussing the highest level of play. You are just yet another Terran, clutching at straws to shirk away from how absurdly good your race is at the highest level.
I am not playing at the highest level so I don't benifit from this, and since you don't play at the highest level you have no disadvantage.
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If they applies those upgrades they should prevent chrono boasting them, because its sick how fast they get 2\2
Emp wtf ?.? if they reduce radius ok but they need to increase range, with 1,5 radious its probably same range as HT FB.
And how the fuck will you EMP unless you emp in zone that HT is moving in so that delayed emp land at that time. If the FB has the same range as emp it will be impossible to emp them srsly only cloacked but iI don;t know why wouldn't they make one observer.
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You guys are forgetting the real battlefield, where there are huge clashes and amount of players and comebacks you won't see in GSL, where apm does not matter and they can even play one hour long game with 30 SCVs : the gold & plat leagues!! It's hard to be a terran in those leagues as you need a bit of micro to be effective against the toss deathballs & zergs swarms A movers which is really hard to pull off at this level, at least when you don't cheese.
I'm kidding they have to balance the games for the very highest skilled players, they try something and we can't deny terrans have been dominating the game this year and that protoss have struggled. We should be happy they do their best to balance it.
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On November 02 2011 05:34 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 05:25 oogieogie wrote:On November 02 2011 05:23 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 05:19 blacklist_member wrote:On November 02 2011 05:14 freetgy wrote:On November 02 2011 05:11 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 04:55 rustypipe wrote:
How can anyone not say terran especially at high level of play isn't an advantage or OP. Just LOOK at the GSL numbers! its like 80% terran and when you are playing for money or a living you are obviously going to go with the race that gives you the largest % chance to win based on your skill. Even the server statistics show this especially on the Korean servers.
Terrans needed to be taken down a peg, not a large amount but just a little so ZvT and ZvP was a little more favourable or even.
Just look at CODE A GSL, MLG, ESWC and every other tournament! You will notice 2 things: - EU / NA terrans are DOMINATED, not DOMINATING (only thorzain and select are doing decent). - Z and P are doing extremely well. JUST LOOK at this (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) and tell me that terran is OP. + Show Spoiler +MLG with BEASTLY terrans like BOMBER, BOXER, PUMA, POLT, THESTC, ... ends in a PvP finals, and you dare to say that terran is OP? the highest level of play is Code S so arguing that second class terran players are not as dominating as they could be in the lower leagues means nothing for high level balance. Exactly this, Its like saying banelings are OP in the gold league because the terrans there can't split... Yeah, tournaments like MLG are comparable to gold league... Code S players like polt, MMA, ganzi, Ryung, Bomber, ensnare and nada go to other tournaments, and you won't see them dominate there as hard as they do in code S. Why? weren't the last two tournaments before orlando both TvTs or have mostly terrans in top 6? Also even at mlg we see terrans just dominating. people need to stop thinking that one tournament that ends in a PvP means everything. + Show Spoiler +MLG Raleigh: 1. bomber 2. coca 3. DongRaeGu --> 1 terran, 2 zergs
MLG Anaheim: 1. MVP 2. MMA 3. BoxeR --> 3 terrans, I agree here
MLG Columbus: 1. MMA 2. LosirA 3. MC --> 1 terran, 1 zerg, 1 protoss
+ Show Spoiler +We also saw in Anaheim one of the biggest/quickest metagame shifts ever in SC2 with the increased usage of the hellion. That alone skewed the numbers in T favor for about 2 weeks.
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On November 02 2011 06:03 Targma wrote:
If they applies those upgrades they should prevent chrono boasting them, because its sick how fast they get 2\2
Emp wtf ?.? if they reduce radius ok but they need to increase range, with 1,5 radious its probably same range as HT FB.
And how the fuck will you EMP unless you emp in zone that HT is moving in so that delayed emp land at that time. If the FB has the same range as emp it will be impossible to emp them srsly only cloacked but iI don;t know why wouldn't they make one observer.
Assuming you are playing properly if you were rushing to get 2/2 it won't come any faster. You dropped the forge, start an upgrade and as soon as one finishes you start the next. The difference is not great enough to get out many more units. It is a very small buff.
Why do you think the ghost's EMP should outrange the HT's feedback? Using feedback on a ghost to stop him from EMPing your entire army is one of the ghost's counters. It is already a quicker unit and can be cloaked. Why should it also have superior range? I don't get why you think EMPs should be free or how you thought Protoss managed to use feedback when they had a slower moving non-cloaked unit with less range. Equal range seems to be the most logical choice.
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On November 02 2011 05:49 Mehukannu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 05:37 Aborash wrote:On November 02 2011 05:26 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 05:21 oogieogie wrote:On November 02 2011 05:06 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 04:04 hunts wrote:On November 01 2011 07:03 AIRwar wrote:On November 01 2011 07:00 []Phase[] wrote:
as zerg I wouldve liked a snipe nerf...
emp vs shields was a problem, but it isnt the only ability of ghost thats abit rediculous Snipe is a bit ridiculous imo.. I keep seeing games where Zerg has clear advantage but a few snipes insta-kills their key units for free basically.. =/ this! It just doesn't feel right that 1 unit (the ghost) can hard counter all of zergs lategame units (infestors, brood lords, ultras) very effectively and efficiently. It almost feels like zergs are forced to finish off a T before they are able to start making some ghosts because once ghosts hit the field it almost feels like the Z is punished for making their best and most expensive units. It just doesn't feel right that 2 units (infestor + broodlord / ultra) can HARD counter all of terrans lategame units (tanks, thors) very effectively and efficiently. I watched satini vs a zerg. Satini was on 2 more bases, and he had a HUGE advantage. Satinii had to turtle and couldn't kill his opponent. Why? Because you can't attack against infestor + ultra / broodlord. Satinii had AMAZING ghost control, but just couldn't attack. He had to turtle for an hour, then the zerg dried out. THIS worries me VERY hard. Everyone seems to forget this... Are you really saying that infestors,tanks,and thors are lategame units? Also ghosts do seem to be too good vs protoss w/emp and zerg with emp/snipe. I mean what do you even need snipe for? If the zerg has broodlords you can go vikings, and if they have ultras you can go marauders which is easily better then ghosts for them. inbe4 infestors killing the vikings..they would kill the ghosts too if you catch them, but with cloak + mass qued snipe it is just ridiculous. Well, I had to say something, since there are no terran tier 3 units... Broodlord + infestor combination is OP, like David Kim said in an interview. Then terrans used ghosts and now it's okay (but still imba imo). Let me explain vikings vs broodlord infestor: you spread your vikings perfect and with alot of luck you win the fight --> gratz, the zerg switched to ultralisk and you have useless vikings. Use them to kill overlords, ultras doesn't attack air, so you get map control, also you can land them near the mineral patches when there are no ground units around, and do some nice harras You do realize that zerg will not just make ultras? Trust me, there is going to be lings/blings and infestors with the ultras and infestors are going to eat vikings alive with both fungal and infested marines. <_<
Are we talking about some kind of infinite vespene scenario in which you are able to switch from broodlords/infestors, to ultras/infestors/blings?
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On November 02 2011 05:37 Aborash wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 05:26 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 05:21 oogieogie wrote:On November 02 2011 05:06 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 04:04 hunts wrote:On November 01 2011 07:03 AIRwar wrote:On November 01 2011 07:00 []Phase[] wrote:
as zerg I wouldve liked a snipe nerf...
emp vs shields was a problem, but it isnt the only ability of ghost thats abit rediculous Snipe is a bit ridiculous imo.. I keep seeing games where Zerg has clear advantage but a few snipes insta-kills their key units for free basically.. =/ this! It just doesn't feel right that 1 unit (the ghost) can hard counter all of zergs lategame units (infestors, brood lords, ultras) very effectively and efficiently. It almost feels like zergs are forced to finish off a T before they are able to start making some ghosts because once ghosts hit the field it almost feels like the Z is punished for making their best and most expensive units. It just doesn't feel right that 2 units (infestor + broodlord / ultra) can HARD counter all of terrans lategame units (tanks, thors) very effectively and efficiently. I watched satini vs a zerg. Satini was on 2 more bases, and he had a HUGE advantage. Satinii had to turtle and couldn't kill his opponent. Why? Because you can't attack against infestor + ultra / broodlord. Satinii had AMAZING ghost control, but just couldn't attack. He had to turtle for an hour, then the zerg dried out. THIS worries me VERY hard. Everyone seems to forget this... Are you really saying that infestors,tanks,and thors are lategame units? Also ghosts do seem to be too good vs protoss w/emp and zerg with emp/snipe. I mean what do you even need snipe for? If the zerg has broodlords you can go vikings, and if they have ultras you can go marauders which is easily better then ghosts for them. inbe4 infestors killing the vikings..they would kill the ghosts too if you catch them, but with cloak + mass qued snipe it is just ridiculous. Well, I had to say something, since there are no terran tier 3 units... Broodlord + infestor combination is OP, like David Kim said in an interview. Then terrans used ghosts and now it's okay (but still imba imo). Let me explain vikings vs broodlord infestor: you spread your vikings perfect and with alot of luck you win the fight --> gratz, the zerg switched to ultralisk and you have useless vikings. Use them to kill overlords, ultras doesn't attack air, so you get map control, also you can land them near the mineral patches when there are no ground units around, and do some nice harras
Didnt know you couldnt EMP/snipe the infestors, and utilize a tier 3 unit, like the BC? I didnt know a yamato cannon 1 shots broodlords. With a longer range than fungal/NP/Broodlord. Not to mention, theyre still useful vs that ultra max you said they can do afterwards. And cost about the same?
Furthermore, your ghosts, while cloaked, can snipe overseers.
Which by the way, making say, 12 ultras, costs a lot, right? I think it does. Not to mention, vikings can snipe Overseers/overlords, and you can sacrifice them if you so desire. It does take 55s to make ultras.
Lastly; Do you know what a seeker missile does to a pack of infestors?
There are answers other than crying OP OP. Try testing stuff first; Z had to do it. P is starting to do it. T can too.
Also: Your complaining that T has a weakness? Really?
No worries, you can have the strongest early game, with no drawback to any kind of pressure, really. Then an amazing midgame. And the strongest late game. With tons of versatility in between.
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On November 02 2011 06:03 Targma wrote:
If they applies those upgrades they should prevent chrono boasting them, because its sick how fast they get 2\2
Emp wtf ?.? if they reduce radius ok but they need to increase range, with 1,5 radious its probably same range as HT FB.
And how the fuck will you EMP unless you emp in zone that HT is moving in so that delayed emp land at that time. If the FB has the same range as emp it will be impossible to emp them srsly only cloacked but iI don;t know why wouldn't they make one observer.
EMP range: 10
EMP range+radius: 11.5
FD range: 9
don't worry little ghost, so far you still outrange your only counter, and you are faster than your only counter, and you can cloak.
you'll be fine
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On November 02 2011 06:12 MattyClutch wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 06:03 Targma wrote:
If they applies those upgrades they should prevent chrono boasting them, because its sick how fast they get 2\2
Emp wtf ?.? if they reduce radius ok but they need to increase range, with 1,5 radious its probably same range as HT FB.
And how the fuck will you EMP unless you emp in zone that HT is moving in so that delayed emp land at that time. If the FB has the same range as emp it will be impossible to emp them srsly only cloacked but iI don;t know why wouldn't they make one observer. Assuming you are playing properly if you were rushing to get 2/2 it won't come any faster. You dropped the forge, start an upgrade and as soon as one finishes you start the next. The difference is not great enough to get out many more units. It is a very small buff. Why do you think the ghost's EMP should outrange the HT's feedback? Using feedback on a ghost to stop him from EMPing your entire army is one of the ghost's counters. It is already a quicker unit and can be cloaked. Why should it also have superior range? I don't get why you think EMPs should be free or how you thought Protoss managed to use feedback when they had a slower moving non-cloaked unit with less range. Equal range seems to be the most logical choice.
No, the most logical choice is to make colossi and use the HTs defensively until you're ready to move out.
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On November 02 2011 06:17 Aborash wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 05:49 Mehukannu wrote:On November 02 2011 05:37 Aborash wrote:On November 02 2011 05:26 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 05:21 oogieogie wrote:On November 02 2011 05:06 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 04:04 hunts wrote:On November 01 2011 07:03 AIRwar wrote:On November 01 2011 07:00 []Phase[] wrote:
as zerg I wouldve liked a snipe nerf...
emp vs shields was a problem, but it isnt the only ability of ghost thats abit rediculous Snipe is a bit ridiculous imo.. I keep seeing games where Zerg has clear advantage but a few snipes insta-kills their key units for free basically.. =/ this! It just doesn't feel right that 1 unit (the ghost) can hard counter all of zergs lategame units (infestors, brood lords, ultras) very effectively and efficiently. It almost feels like zergs are forced to finish off a T before they are able to start making some ghosts because once ghosts hit the field it almost feels like the Z is punished for making their best and most expensive units. It just doesn't feel right that 2 units (infestor + broodlord / ultra) can HARD counter all of terrans lategame units (tanks, thors) very effectively and efficiently. I watched satini vs a zerg. Satini was on 2 more bases, and he had a HUGE advantage. Satinii had to turtle and couldn't kill his opponent. Why? Because you can't attack against infestor + ultra / broodlord. Satinii had AMAZING ghost control, but just couldn't attack. He had to turtle for an hour, then the zerg dried out. THIS worries me VERY hard. Everyone seems to forget this... Are you really saying that infestors,tanks,and thors are lategame units? Also ghosts do seem to be too good vs protoss w/emp and zerg with emp/snipe. I mean what do you even need snipe for? If the zerg has broodlords you can go vikings, and if they have ultras you can go marauders which is easily better then ghosts for them. inbe4 infestors killing the vikings..they would kill the ghosts too if you catch them, but with cloak + mass qued snipe it is just ridiculous. Well, I had to say something, since there are no terran tier 3 units... Broodlord + infestor combination is OP, like David Kim said in an interview. Then terrans used ghosts and now it's okay (but still imba imo). Let me explain vikings vs broodlord infestor: you spread your vikings perfect and with alot of luck you win the fight --> gratz, the zerg switched to ultralisk and you have useless vikings. Use them to kill overlords, ultras doesn't attack air, so you get map control, also you can land them near the mineral patches when there are no ground units around, and do some nice harras You do realize that zerg will not just make ultras? Trust me, there is going to be lings/blings and infestors with the ultras and infestors are going to eat vikings alive with both fungal and infested marines. <_< Are we talking about some kind of infinite vespene scenario in which you are able to switch from broodlords/infestors, to ultras/infestors/blings?
Apparently we are talking about a scenario where zerg just making ultras after forcing terran to make vikings against infestor /broodlords combo, so yes, I think we are.
But I have to say ultra/infestor/ling is pretty normal unit combo to make at late game and if zerg can afford to make broodlord/infestors which is more gas heavier than say ultra/infestor/ling/bling more than that zerg doesn't need to mass 10+ ultras either, about 6 is more than enough considering how big ultras are and having more than that will make ultras getting into the battle hard because of their huge size.
Also, by the time zerg gets broodlord/infestor he will have 4 mining bases so he would be getting gas quite easily.
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On November 02 2011 06:08 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 05:34 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 05:25 oogieogie wrote:On November 02 2011 05:23 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 05:19 blacklist_member wrote:On November 02 2011 05:14 freetgy wrote:On November 02 2011 05:11 Snowbear wrote:On November 02 2011 04:55 rustypipe wrote:
How can anyone not say terran especially at high level of play isn't an advantage or OP. Just LOOK at the GSL numbers! its like 80% terran and when you are playing for money or a living you are obviously going to go with the race that gives you the largest % chance to win based on your skill. Even the server statistics show this especially on the Korean servers.
Terrans needed to be taken down a peg, not a large amount but just a little so ZvT and ZvP was a little more favourable or even.
Just look at CODE A GSL, MLG, ESWC and every other tournament! You will notice 2 things: - EU / NA terrans are DOMINATED, not DOMINATING (only thorzain and select are doing decent). - Z and P are doing extremely well. JUST LOOK at this (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) and tell me that terran is OP. + Show Spoiler +MLG with BEASTLY terrans like BOMBER, BOXER, PUMA, POLT, THESTC, ... ends in a PvP finals, and you dare to say that terran is OP? the highest level of play is Code S so arguing that second class terran players are not as dominating as they could be in the lower leagues means nothing for high level balance. Exactly this, Its like saying banelings are OP in the gold league because the terrans there can't split... Yeah, tournaments like MLG are comparable to gold league... Code S players like polt, MMA, ganzi, Ryung, Bomber, ensnare and nada go to other tournaments, and you won't see them dominate there as hard as they do in code S. Why? weren't the last two tournaments before orlando both TvTs or have mostly terrans in top 6? Also even at mlg we see terrans just dominating. people need to stop thinking that one tournament that ends in a PvP means everything. + Show Spoiler +MLG Raleigh: 1. bomber 2. coca 3. DongRaeGu --> 1 terran, 2 zergs
MLG Anaheim: 1. MVP 2. MMA 3. BoxeR --> 3 terrans, I agree here
MLG Columbus: 1. MMA 2. LosirA 3. MC --> 1 terran, 1 zerg, 1 protoss + Show Spoiler +We also saw in Anaheim one of the biggest/quickest metagame shifts ever in SC2 with the increased usage of the hellion. That alone skewed the numbers in T favor for about 2 weeks.
+ Show Spoiler +
That was only a huge metagame shift for people who didn't see GSL though XD
Overall i think people focus a little too much on the GSL(where the T dominance can be attributed to the format, guess we will see) and ignore other tourneys with good players. I mean I know GSL has the highest level of play, but things are not as bad as people make them out to be
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EPT
