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On October 30 2011 06:33 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 06:21 Eventine wrote:On October 30 2011 03:59 blade55555 wrote:
Yes but to be honest zergs can just spread their infestors out when they know ghosts are on the field (I do this most of the time). EMP isn't an issue really in tvz, tvp It is I believe but tvz its snipe thats the issue honestly. I thnk you're right that zergs/protoss should do a beter job of spreading out and limiting the impact of EMP. However, it's far more difficult to keep that spread as armies move and is much more micro intensive than the using a ghost to EMP. It seems that terran does not have to worry as much about spreading units as compared to the other two races (opinion here). Definitely second that snipe thing... I think that terran is the most micro-intensive race. You can't just 1a your army. You need to split alot vs storm, fungal and banelings. Basicly terran has to split, emp and snipe (vs zerg) at the same time ...
I'm an average American gamer, i can't do that  so i have to prioritise... Emping is naturally the easiest to pull off, followed by splitting... but trying to perform split micro while queing snipes is actually extremely hard... especially since you have to deal with the action chain... it makes it very difficult for the units to actually do what you want, because the "snipe chain" doesn't interrupt their current actions...
this makes it easy to misclick or make a move or attack command in the chain that completly bumfucks the whole thing... not to mention, it takes 225 ghost energy to bring down an ultralisk, which is 9 clicks per ultra... i cant micro my units and accurately/quickly click each ultra 9 times while playing keep away... that's just absurd.
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On October 30 2011 06:51 XerrolAvengerII wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 06:33 Snowbear wrote:On October 30 2011 06:21 Eventine wrote:On October 30 2011 03:59 blade55555 wrote:
Yes but to be honest zergs can just spread their infestors out when they know ghosts are on the field (I do this most of the time). EMP isn't an issue really in tvz, tvp It is I believe but tvz its snipe thats the issue honestly. I thnk you're right that zergs/protoss should do a beter job of spreading out and limiting the impact of EMP. However, it's far more difficult to keep that spread as armies move and is much more micro intensive than the using a ghost to EMP. It seems that terran does not have to worry as much about spreading units as compared to the other two races (opinion here). Definitely second that snipe thing... I think that terran is the most micro-intensive race. You can't just 1a your army. You need to split alot vs storm, fungal and banelings. Basicly terran has to split, emp and snipe (vs zerg) at the same time ... I'm an average American gamer, i can't do that so i have to prioritise... Emping is naturally the easiest to pull off, followed by splitting... but trying to perform split micro while queing snipes is actually extremely hard... especially since you have to deal with the action chain... it makes it very difficult for the units to actually do what you want, because the "snipe chain" doesn't interrupt their current actions... this makes it easy to misclick or make a move or attack command in the chain that completly bumfucks the whole thing... not to mention, it takes 225 ghost energy to bring down an ultralisk, which is 9 clicks per ultra... i cant micro my units and accurately/quickly click each ultra 9 times while playing keep away... that's just absurd.
It's actually funny that players from other races think that terrans don't need to worry about spreading when TvZ is all about spreading marines against banelings and infestors. Basically, if you don't spread you just die. In TvP spreading is also important (especially to get a nice concave and avoid AoE from storm and colossus) but not as important as in TvZ. That post shows how far bias goes.
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On October 30 2011 06:59 petro1987 wrote:
It's actually funny that players from other races think that terrans don't need to worry about spreading when TvZ is all about spreading marines against banelings and infestors. Basically, if you don't spread you just die. In TvP spreading is also important (especially to get a nice concave and avoid AoE from storm and colossus) but not as important as in TvZ. That post shows how far bias goes.
sure terran has to split, but there is no fear of actual instant damage spells. (except may be burrowed banelings)
baneling damage is instant, but its damage is only applied on melee connect, unlike EMP which is instant on range 10. Same for Snipe.
Sure you can spread prior to an engagement as Protoss or Zerg, but during fighting and movement, you can't split effectively because those spellcasters are fucking slow. Unlike stimmed marine or marauders, which have the ability to actively spread out in a fight.
Dodge storms to minimize their effect etc...
That why we see People use warpprisms to hide HT because spreading isn't enough.
You can only do so much against a skilled snipe user.
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Now do something about snipe and I'm happy. Snipe is too good once you have a critical amount of ghosts....
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On October 30 2011 07:04 JoeAWESOME wrote:
Now do something about snipe and I'm happy. Snipe is too good once you have a critical amount of ghosts....
And how can we fight broodlord infestor? Alot of people really forgot that before terrans found the ghost sollution, infestor broodlord was almost always game over. During that time, even David Kim said that broodlord + infestor was too strong. Then terrans found the ghost-snipe sollution and now it's do-able, but still damn hard. Nerf ghosts and we have the same problem again.
Another thing: how do we deal with ultralisks infestor without good snipes? I saw Satinii on his stream playing on 2 more bases then his opponent zerg. He just couldn't kill the zerg (infestor + ultra), even with 25 ghosts. He just had to turtle, nuke, and dry the zerg out. After the game I asked him why he couldn't kill his opponent, even when he was miles ahead. His answer: if I move out, 1 little mistake and I lose my whole army in no time. Even with his great ghost-snipe usage, he had trouble killing a zerg which was clearly behind. This worries me.
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On October 28 2011 12:06 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
Its not so much that I am denying that snipe is clearly an ability tailered against zerg since, it indescriminantly targets biologicals, but even so its energy inefficiency coupled with its clumsy usage makes it an ability that ONLY the top of the skill tree is capable of using.
All I ask, is for something simple like making snipe 90 damage for 50 energy shouldn't actually be considered a thing of balance, as that would simply enable players of lower expertise to utilise the "possibilities" of the race... not to mention, in terms of resources and damage to energy efficiency, it would be identical.
I find it fascinating how most people want to include "difficulty of the ability / capability" in factoring balance, when balance should be a measure of realistic potential between races... yes IMMVP has the capability to macro perfectly and efficiently cast snipes from an army of 17 ghosts, but that is a trait that only 1% or less of the SC community is capable of doing. I hardly think that 1% of players being able to use a feature of a race qualifies that feature to be a valueable asset to the race.
I mean, if you consider "potential" in and of itself, there are various videos of AI's microing zerglings against tanks, or marines against banelings... can we consider these "potentials" in balance?
@bolded text
ok, so according to you, we should only care about the potential of the units when we consider balance, so how about I propose a change to the game which does not affect the maximum/realistic potential of anything, and you, according to yourself, cannot disagree and claim that change would affect the balance.
terran units cannot attack-move.
did this change the balance? it didn't change the potential for units so lets go on.
terran units cannot queue commands.
still no change in balance?
terran units will never ever attack any unit unless given an order to attack said unit.
are you sure the balance haven't changed at all?
lets add some more!
terran units will always "de-target" after shooting. (so they will only shoot once per attack command)
terran units cannot have move-commands issued to them which makes them move more than 1 unit length.
only 1 unit can be selected at a time for terran.
well, the potential of terran is unchanged, so these changes could not possibly change the balance of terran.
so its fine to do stuff like this too:
terran buildings will instantly self-destruct unless it has been selected within the last 10 seconds.
and just to make my point further, lets add something even more absurd!
if there is a terran unit which has not been individually selected the last 2 seconds, the player which controls that unit instantly loses the game.
none of these change the potential of terran, so according to your logic it would be perfectly fine to implement.
(ok, we all know I wen't overboard like crazy, but the point is that if something requires a lot more attention/skill/ability than something else, then ofcourse that will affect the balance between the two.)
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If we talk about potential and balance, our potential is far different than MVP. So whose potential do we balance on? I think realistic potential is fine to balance, but I think the definition of realistic and whose potential needs to be thought about before doing so. Another thing is, what is the impact on the pro level play of these changes. e.g. making snipes easier (though requiring more energy per cast may have impact) allows terran to potentially do more, raising the realistic potential of MVPs terran.
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On October 28 2011 12:06 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
Its not so much that I am denying that snipe is clearly an ability tailered against zerg since, it indescriminantly targets biologicals, but even so its energy inefficiency coupled with its clumsy usage makes it an ability that ONLY the top of the skill tree is capable of using.
All I ask, is for something simple like making snipe 90 damage for 50 energy shouldn't actually be considered a thing of balance, as that would simply enable players of lower expertise to utilise the "possibilities" of the race... not to mention, in terms of resources and damage to energy efficiency, it would be identical.
I find it fascinating how most people want to include "difficulty of the ability / capability" in factoring balance, when balance should be a measure of realistic potential between races... yes IMMVP has the capability to macro perfectly and efficiently cast snipes from an army of 17 ghosts, but that is a trait that only 1% or less of the SC community is capable of doing. I hardly think that 1% of players being able to use a feature of a race qualifies that feature to be a valueable asset to the race.
I mean, if you consider "potential" in and of itself, there are various videos of AI's microing zerglings against tanks, or marines against banelings... can we consider these "potentials" in balance?
It's hard to get any sympathy here while Korean Terrans are owning. Everybody will just tell you to get better. Of course when they struggle with something you cannot say the same thing because they will likely say that it's due to Terran being OP. They will back it up with the fact there are only a few Protoss and Zergs on GSL. Kinda pointless to complain about anything as a T right now.
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On October 30 2011 07:43 Roblin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 12:06 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
I find it fascinating how most people want to include "difficulty of the ability / capability" in factoring balance, when balance should be a measure of realistic potential between races. (... and all you said seemed to me like blah blah blah stuff since you missed what i was TRYING to get at, even though i failed to properly articulate it... You were also very UNREALISTIC in your suggestions/theories so i have a difficult time taking you seriously - Xroll)
What i was trying to focus on, was that serious balance shouldn't solely be placed on the shoulders of the top 1% of players...
I find it insulting how blizzard's balance department almost tries to balance separately? segregating the units and balancing them relative to the different crowds. (consider that blizzard TRIED to talor units like the mothership and battle cruiser towards poor players, and units like ghosts and infestors toward strong players who can utilize their potentials.)
I played Terran in season 1, and Zerg in season 3... i find that at lower levels, a player that can grasp macro mechanics has an easier time with zerg because zerg benefits the most from a passive opponent.
Snipe is an ability the MVP can use to hold of late game zerg players, but in terms of mathematics, not only is snipe an poorly designed ability, but the ability for players of all levels to utilize it as a solution to the same problem is non-existent.
... my guess, is that most people here are afraid of snipe being used by opponents at their level, and so they argue in favor for its absurd design and difficult application as justification for its "perceived strength"...
We see MVP use snipe (and he does a marvelous job of it)... that is snipe's potential, but the truth is... most players are PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE (at this moment, with current motivations and practice, and other variables etc etc etc) to do the same thing...
I get frustrated at blizzard's choice to ignore these aspects of game "balance"... its almost like, as long as 1 unit in X race can turn the tide against Y race then balance *somewhere* exists...
I get annoyed when blizzard ignores all the neglected units and abilities like Carriers, Battle Cruisers, Reapers, Hydralisks, Seeker Missile, Recall, etc etc... simply because "those units are not neccesary to maintain balance..."
My philosophy is that TRUE BALANCe can be achieved by making each unit have relative equal value / incentive*** and that with tweaking, blizzard could make FAIR situations in which every unit has an advantage over its peers.
*** by this i mean, the benefits of a unit combined with its capacity / potential... i.e. Incentives for Marine: cheap, early game, mobile, high damage... relative to say: colossus: expensive, critical mass / splash damage, long range, mobility...
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well protoss.....you've done it......you've pulled a zerg.....
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On October 30 2011 09:16 MurMiLLo wrote:
well protoss.....you've done it......you've pulled a zerg.....
Is that a HOTS viper / colossus pun?
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On October 30 2011 09:20 XerrolAvengerII wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 09:16 MurMiLLo wrote:
well protoss.....you've done it......you've pulled a zerg..... Is that a HOTS viper / colossus pun?
Think he's more so referring to the days when zergs whined and got an infestor buff along with some other stuff.
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On October 30 2011 07:04 JoeAWESOME wrote:
Now do something about snipe and I'm happy. Snipe is too good once you have a critical amount of ghosts....
On October 30 2011 07:18 Snowbear wrote:
Another thing: how do we deal with ultralisks infestor without good snipes? I saw Satinii on his stream playing on 2 more bases then his opponent zerg. He just couldn't kill the zerg (infestor + ultra), even with 25 ghosts. He just had to turtle, nuke, and dry the zerg out. After the game I asked him why he couldn't kill his opponent, even when he was miles ahead. His answer: if I move out, 1 little mistake and I lose my whole army in no time. Even with his great ghost-snipe usage, he had trouble killing a zerg which was clearly behind. This worries me.
That's exactly it they need some type of universal unit that is at least decently affective against both ends of the zerg late game tech tree. Say you are going your marine tank against zerg and they go infestor-BL. Well you decide to make a bunch of vikings to kill the BLs and then the zerg decides that was the only batch of BLs he was gonna make now its all ultra-infestor. Congragulations terran player you now have 5-10 useless vikings might as well go harass or kill overlords with them because they are going to be 100% useless in the upcoming fight.
Likewise if they go ultra-infestor you could counter it by shitting out a bunch of marauders but then they just switch to broodlords and you are screwed.
The ability for the zerg to do a complete tech switch. Is what gives the terrans that need for a unit that can somewhat hit both extremes. You still don't want too many ghosts cause that limits the other tech units you can have like tanks and medivacs. Then with a lower count of these units you run the risk of just getting overwhelmed by roaches and/or lings.
On October 30 2011 07:18 Snowbear wrote:
And how can we fight broodlord infestor? Alot of people really forgot that before terrans found the ghost sollution, infestor broodlord was almost always game over. During that time, even David Kim said that broodlord + infestor was too strong. Then terrans found the ghost-snipe sollution and now it's do-able, but still damn hard. Nerf ghosts and we have the same problem again.
You act like zerg players weren't on every forum you can post on screaming at terran players to use ghosts as the solution to their troubles and that was just some magical day and some Korean Terran pro just woke up in the morning and said, "you know I bet I could use ghosts and that would solve all terrans problems vs late game zerg"
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On October 30 2011 09:15 XerrolAvengerII wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 07:43 Roblin wrote:On October 28 2011 12:06 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
I find it fascinating how most people want to include "difficulty of the ability / capability" in factoring balance, when balance should be a measure of realistic potential between races. (... and all you said seemed to me like blah blah blah stuff since you missed what i was TRYING to get at, even though i failed to properly articulate it... You were also very UNREALISTIC in your suggestions/theories so i have a difficult time taking you seriously - Xroll) What i was trying to focus on, was that serious balance shouldn't solely be placed on the shoulders of the top 1% of players... I find it insulting how blizzard's balance department almost tries to balance separately? segregating the units and balancing them relative to the different crowds. (consider that blizzard TRIED to talor units like the mothership and battle cruiser towards poor players, and units like ghosts and infestors toward strong players who can utilize their potentials.) I played Terran in season 1, and Zerg in season 3... i find that at lower levels, a player that can grasp macro mechanics has an easier time with zerg because zerg benefits the most from a passive opponent. Snipe is an ability the MVP can use to hold of late game zerg players, but in terms of mathematics, not only is snipe an poorly designed ability, but the ability for players of all levels to utilize it as a solution to the same problem is non-existent. ... my guess, is that most people here are afraid of snipe being used by opponents at their level, and so they argue in favor for its absurd design and difficult application as justification for its "perceived strength"... We see MVP use snipe (and he does a marvelous job of it)... that is snipe's potential, but the truth is... most players are PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE (at this moment, with current motivations and practice, and other variables etc etc etc) to do the same thing... I get frustrated at blizzard's choice to ignore these aspects of game "balance"... its almost like, as long as 1 unit in X race can turn the tide against Y race then balance *somewhere* exists... I get annoyed when blizzard ignores all the neglected units and abilities like Carriers, Battle Cruisers, Reapers, Hydralisks, Seeker Missile, Recall, etc etc... simply because "those units are not neccesary to maintain balance..." My philosophy is that TRUE BALANCe can be achieved by making each unit have relative equal value / incentive*** and that with tweaking, blizzard could make FAIR situations in which every unit has an advantage over its peers. *** by this i mean, the benefits of a unit combined with its capacity / potential... i.e. Incentives for Marine: cheap, early game, mobile, high damage... relative to say: colossus: expensive, critical mass / splash damage, long range, mobility...
Blizzard is already doing an awesome job of trying to give each unit a proper role.
Also stop talking about things like TRUE BALANCE please, balance at lower levels is very hard to define properly and you could say it doesn't matter much. There are too many other factors at play that determine winning or losing at lower levels, why care about the insignifcant effect of balance on that...
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as long as queen heals more for less energy then snipe does i don't see a problem with snipe. Once the energy is gone and you have to many ghosts it will get pretty messy.
But attacking into ghosts is as much of a self kill as attacking into a spinecrawler supported zerg army. The funny part is that alot of zergs go more and more t3 heavy after every engagement, which is bad and not only when you face ghosts.
But zerg is known for being lazy waiting for patches so i guess we might see a snipe nerf in a few month.
The Snipe damage can't be really reduced though. So we might see an ultra hp buff with an armor nerf hehe.
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On October 30 2011 10:11 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 09:15 XerrolAvengerII wrote:On October 30 2011 07:43 Roblin wrote:On October 28 2011 12:06 XerrolAvengerII wrote:
I find it fascinating how most people want to include "difficulty of the ability / capability" in factoring balance, when balance should be a measure of realistic potential between races. (... and all you said seemed to me like blah blah blah stuff since you missed what i was TRYING to get at, even though i failed to properly articulate it... You were also very UNREALISTIC in your suggestions/theories so i have a difficult time taking you seriously - Xroll) What i was trying to focus on, was that serious balance shouldn't solely be placed on the shoulders of the top 1% of players... I find it insulting how blizzard's balance department almost tries to balance separately? segregating the units and balancing them relative to the different crowds. (consider that blizzard TRIED to talor units like the mothership and battle cruiser towards poor players, and units like ghosts and infestors toward strong players who can utilize their potentials.) I played Terran in season 1, and Zerg in season 3... i find that at lower levels, a player that can grasp macro mechanics has an easier time with zerg because zerg benefits the most from a passive opponent. Snipe is an ability the MVP can use to hold of late game zerg players, but in terms of mathematics, not only is snipe an poorly designed ability, but the ability for players of all levels to utilize it as a solution to the same problem is non-existent. ... my guess, is that most people here are afraid of snipe being used by opponents at their level, and so they argue in favor for its absurd design and difficult application as justification for its "perceived strength"... We see MVP use snipe (and he does a marvelous job of it)... that is snipe's potential, but the truth is... most players are PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE (at this moment, with current motivations and practice, and other variables etc etc etc) to do the same thing... I get frustrated at blizzard's choice to ignore these aspects of game "balance"... its almost like, as long as 1 unit in X race can turn the tide against Y race then balance *somewhere* exists... I get annoyed when blizzard ignores all the neglected units and abilities like Carriers, Battle Cruisers, Reapers, Hydralisks, Seeker Missile, Recall, etc etc... simply because "those units are not neccesary to maintain balance..." My philosophy is that TRUE BALANCe can be achieved by making each unit have relative equal value / incentive*** and that with tweaking, blizzard could make FAIR situations in which every unit has an advantage over its peers. *** by this i mean, the benefits of a unit combined with its capacity / potential... i.e. Incentives for Marine: cheap, early game, mobile, high damage... relative to say: colossus: expensive, critical mass / splash damage, long range, mobility... Blizzard is already doing an awesome job of trying to give each unit a proper role. Also stop talking about things like TRUE BALANCE please, balance at lower levels is very hard to define properly and you could say it doesn't matter much. There are too many other factors at play that determine winning or losing at lower levels, why care about the insignifcant effect of balance on that...
i think you missunderstood me... by true balance, im NOT talking about some kind of hippie average transcendant balance or w.e. im talking about playing a game in which i have equal reason (at average throughout the game) to make at least 1 of every kind of unit... if Blizzard can give more inventive for players to be non homogenous then i would be happy.
at this point in the discussion, i'm throwing race balance out the window (and with it player level balance) and talking specifically about units. I feel like the game is basically (and in from an over simplic view point) balanced entirely around the marine.
I would like to be able to play any matchup without producing a single marine and being just as effective (or better) than a composition heavy with marines.
That is just an example. i hate how people are so quick to justify UNuse by making claims like: "oh that's a supporting unit (at the raven) or games don't go long enough (at the battle cruiser)"
On October 30 2011 10:00 terranghost wrote:That's exactly it they need some type of universal unit that is at least decently affective against both ends of the zerg late game tech tree. Say you are going your marine tank against zerg and they go infestor-BL. Well you decide to make a bunch of vikings to kill the BLs and then the zerg decides that was the only batch of BLs he was gonna make now its all ultra-infestor. Congragulations terran player you now have 5-10 useless vikings might as well go harass or kill overlords with them because they are going to be 100% useless in the upcoming fight.
I feel like the Battle cruiser could be buffed because it is in the perfect position (technologically and strategically) to be an answer to late game zerg play... an example, would be to give the battle cruiser +1 vs biological with each upgrade, then it would be strong enough against zerg units to offset its retarded cost inefficiency/impracticality...
Consider currently, that the Battle Crusier hits for 6 damage vs air at .23; and the marine htis for 6 at .86... 1 Battle Cruiser deals 26 dps; while 4 marines deal 27.9 dps.. *those are unstimmed by the way*
Throw in some extras mechanical concepts like high sec auto tracking giving BCs +1 range and maybe allowing the BC to perform phoenix drive by's and you have an upgrade dependent late game unit that would be able to perform "strong" against the units it is supposed to i.e. broodlords and mutalisks... yet still be vulnerable to corruptors or infestors with hydras.
Traditionally, the battle cruiser has been used exclusively in Terran and protoss matchups... when BCs lost 20% of their ground damage, they dropped out of use vs protoss... Now they are essentially an Ego boost and bad-manor unit used ONLY in TvT in the late game where its ONLY reason for use is that the BC doesn't die as fast as banshees when engaging tank lines.
That is just theory crafting, but i find the whole snipe thing silly and impractical... Luckily for the pro scene, MVP is a god with perfect macro so if there is anyone to pull off the most ridiculous micro, it would be him.
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On October 30 2011 08:18 Eventine wrote:
If we talk about potential and balance, our potential is far different than MVP. So whose potential do we balance on? I think realistic potential is fine to balance, but I think the definition of realistic and whose potential needs to be thought about before doing so. Another thing is, what is the impact on the pro level play of these changes. e.g. making snipes easier (though requiring more energy per cast may have impact) allows terran to potentially do more, raising the realistic potential of MVPs terran.
Of course we balance on the potential of the very best. Nothing is stopping you from playing as well as them besides hard work and dedication to the game
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On October 30 2011 11:11 SkimGuy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 08:18 Eventine wrote:
If we talk about potential and balance, our potential is far different than MVP. So whose potential do we balance on? I think realistic potential is fine to balance, but I think the definition of realistic and whose potential needs to be thought about before doing so. Another thing is, what is the impact on the pro level play of these changes. e.g. making snipes easier (though requiring more energy per cast may have impact) allows terran to potentially do more, raising the realistic potential of MVPs terran. Of course we balance on the potential of the very best. Nothing is stopping you from playing as well as them besides hard work and dedication to the game
Well shit man, I'm sure the Zerg players would cheer in the name of BALANCE if we cut snipe down to 22 damage for 12 energy... Then maybe MVP wouldn't be so @#$%ing overpowered would he!?!?! / D:< @#&*%@$%*&^#@$(*&!
to be honest, snipe sucks, i would trade for irradiate faster than korean casters could scream plaguu! Snipe may luck impressive in the hands of the best, but its a pain in the ass to use...
no where near satisfying like fungal growth or force fields...
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i wish zerg would get 1 set of upgrades instead of seperate upgrades for melee and ranged
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On October 30 2011 06:29 Savern101 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 06:21 Eventine wrote:On October 30 2011 03:59 blade55555 wrote:
Yes but to be honest zergs can just spread their infestors out when they know ghosts are on the field (I do this most of the time). EMP isn't an issue really in tvz, tvp It is I believe but tvz its snipe thats the issue honestly. I thnk you're right that zergs/protoss should do a beter job of spreading out and limiting the impact of EMP. However, it's far more difficult to keep that spread as armies move and is much more micro intensive than the using a ghost to EMP. It seems that terran does not have to worry as much about spreading units as compared to the other two races (opinion here). Definitely second that snipe thing... Yes Terrans certainly never have to worry about splitting/spreading units vs FG, storm and... oh yeah BANELINGS. Seriously...
At least you have the option to do those things. where as emp lands instantly, and protoss can't do anything about it.
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EPT
