Ok, se there are many complaints about the design of the new unit in Hots - Warhound. The purpose of this thread is to collect general opinion and hopefully make Blizzard redesign this otherwise promising unit.
Poll: How do you like current model of Warhnoud?
I don't like it, it deserves better model. (1412)
82%
I like it, Star Wars ftw.. (164)
10%
I don't care, hopefully it's useful. (141)
8%
1717 total votes
Your vote: How do you like current model of Warhnoud?
(Vote): I like it, Star Wars ftw.. (Vote): I don't like it, it deserves better model. (Vote): I don't care, hopefully it's useful.
Feel free to add any crazy ideas, fun art, etc..
Let's vote..
edit: I will send email with results to Blizz when I see significant number of votes to show balance is not the only thing we care about.
On October 25 2011 22:01 Everlong wrote: The purpose of this thread is to collect general opinion and hopefully make Blizzard redesign this otherwise promising unit.
sounds objective. your poll has a nice set of options too. im sure blizzard will listen
On October 25 2011 22:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Out of curiosity, why does everybody dislike the model?
(I get that it looks like previous units from previous games, but that's always going to happen. What about the concept is inherently irritable?)
It doesn't look badass, it looks like an adult SCV with bigger legs. It just looks boxy and bland instead of the goliath who looks like a two-feeter with massive AA
On October 25 2011 22:01 Everlong wrote: The purpose of this thread is to collect general opinion and hopefully make Blizzard redesign this otherwise promising unit.
sounds objective. your poll has a nice set of options too. im sure blizzard will listen
Well every thread needs it's flamers.. I don't see any reason not to have a little fun with otherwise boring poll business.. :-) The result is clear in the end..
On October 25 2011 22:01 Everlong wrote: The purpose of this thread is to collect general opinion and hopefully make Blizzard redesign this otherwise promising unit.
sounds objective. your poll has a nice set of options too. im sure blizzard will listen
Well every thread needs it's flamers.. I don't see any reason not to have a little fun with otherwise boring poll business.. :-)
You're trying to add dignity and infomational worth to your topic. A little fun has bias nonetheless.
On October 25 2011 22:01 Everlong wrote: edit: I will send email with results to Blizz when I see significant number of votes to show balance is not the only thing we care about.
Sounds like you think this is a pretty irrelevant poll.
I don't mind it. I didn't like the design pic but when I saw it in-game I decided it looks fine.
When I initially saw the concept art I was not very impressed. Seemed like something borrowed right out of BattleTech, though a lot more spindly and fragile, especially in the legs which look not to be able to support the upper torso. Seeing the unit in-game though does feel a lot better (camera angle and animations go along way), but it's far from what I would expect from Blizzards Art team, especially the attack animations/particle effects, bland and uninspired.
The art in this game isn't going to improve. Spontaneity is one thing, but the artists' persistent mediocrity is pretty shocking.
They give you an idea of their design process. It sounds like something out of a high school group project.
"Here's a great picture of everything you love about terran: it's got fire, it's got a huge cannon, rocket missiles, laser explosions..."
"...kinda let everybody contribute to it a little bit so they have some ownership."
"We just wanted something cool, we didn't know exactly what it did, just hey, awesome robotic technomagical looking protoss thing... there was no role for it basically in the army, so every time the designers would be like 'hey we're gonna put in this flyer or this caster', I'd be like 'oh dude, c'mon, use this one'... and so finally there's a role for it in the Heart of Swarm expansion; here's a final model."
"Now I'd like to say we spent a lot of time on it, there was this huge deliberation and we were very smart about it, but it took about five minutes and we were like, yeah that looks cool, ship it."
"It's a robotic unit so we don't need to worry too much about the cockpit or the seating in it or how it all works... I mean, we try to be somewhat form follows function, but this guy just looks cool, like, 'screw it, he looks cool, put him in there'... basically his role, he'll see any other unit on the battlefield and turn into it."
It looks like a number of different battletech units (Mechwarrior series). Instantly puts me in mind of the summoner (called something different by inner sphere, don't remember what, but you can google mechwarrior 2 summoner), but then it's all tiny in scale. That's mostly why I don't like it - It looks kinda cool until you put it next to any other unit and go wtf it's tiny. Quite a subjective opinion I guess.
Tall, slender models are problematic in SC2 because of all the clumping. You want the player to be able to see as much of every unit as possible at all times, even in dense groups. Not only that, but the Warhound just has a very strange silhouette. It looks like something haphazardly pieced together out of legos, with too many slender appendages extending outward. And the walking animation, while not quite Colossus bad, isn't great.
If you told me it was made for a mod I'd still be underwhelmed.
Poll is poor. I like the unit, and I think the unit model is cool (in a kind of "dorky" way), but the "star wars ftw" comment means that to choose that option I need to agree the unit is a star wars ripoff? Not to mention the results will be strongly bais anyway as the vast majority visiting this thread will be people concerned about the unit. Telling blizzard that 90% of people in a "I hate the warhound looks" thread hated the warhound looks isn't particularly useful.
It's not hard to make a good poll:
Poll: What do you think of the Warhound?
I strongly dislike it (102)
64%
I dislike it (27)
17%
It is fine (14)
9%
I like it (10)
6%
I love it! (6)
4%
159 total votes
Your vote: What do you think of the Warhound?
(Vote): I love it! (Vote): I like it (Vote): It is fine (Vote): I dislike it (Vote): I strongly dislike it
Besides the looks, the animation looks really dated. It's a robot holding a small gun that shoots grenades. There's no recoil when shooting (compare to the Thor).
Also, the way the unit walks looks like it weighs nothing. The thor really makes steps and looks like a heavy unit.
I think the biggest thing that puts me off about it is the tiny/weird shield. I feel like that piece alone can bring the whole unit together if it is made larger, or the issue with it being very lanky and tall can be fixed if they move the shoulder rockets to that arm and take away the shield all together.
It reminds me of Total Annihilation, possibly the only strategy game as cool as Starcraft. All it needs to do is leave behind salvageable scrap when it dies...
I remember someone saying that the SCV was just a mini-thor, but with drills instead of cannons. The warhound looks like an SCV had a bad day and wanted fuck some people up. Anyways i don't like it, looks to skinny for my tastes.
On a side note, the Thor was backward engineered from the Odin, so can we get the Odin back instead?
The warhound looks like the Loki from battletech. My main gripe with it is that the torso seems proportionally too big for the legs, also, should be a chicken walker like the goliath. Would also prefer if the missiles were in VLS silos, seems more apt for AA.
The name itself is very cool but the unit looks kinda lame.
They cant make it look like a robotic hound or something (and it wouldnt fit Terran either).
Just buy a Mech manga magazine in Japan, they have perfected drawing cool looking robots and men in robot suits, there is much inspiration there they can pick up.
how is the Warhound good against "siege tanks" , like blizzard said ? Looks like they need 8 shots for 1 Siege tanks, how is this better than marauder ?
more robotssss herp derp and they finish with that garbage...why we cant get something incredible awesome like the wraith? those old artist died? we are really fucked now with the new team , i can imagine better things than that.
Imo it gives a more spartan/essential look to terrans in general. It's sleek instead of bloated, definitely more nimble looking than the thor or the siege tank.
the ground to ground attack looks really puney, like a mini maurader shot. not sure whats up with that... havn't seen the gta attack yet, hopefully it's not the same puney animation shooting upward
I really hate it. I think I could deal with the bad model if the attack animation was cool, but it looks terrible.
And I'm not just trying to trash it. It just doesn't look powerful enough. It shoots a tiny missile that you can barely see and the effect on the warhound is minimal, like it doesn't actually have recoil in any significant amount. Make it look like a freaking autocannon or something. Big bang, big recoil and a fast projectile that explodes with a big hit. It doesn't have to be flashy, but I want it to feel like it is a weapon of war made for ripping mechanical units apart, not a gangly walker with a useless arm and a tiny missile launcher on the other arm.
On October 25 2011 22:57 Xayoz wrote: Don't like it. Should look like a proper gundam.
Hells yeah, bro. It looks like it is made from a junkyard instead of a factory. :/ If they change the design similar to a Gundam (RX-78) I'll love it to death.
On October 25 2011 22:19 g.Sagan wrote: When I initially saw the concept art I was not very impressed. Seemed like something borrowed right out of BattleTech, though a lot more spindly and fragile, especially in the legs which look not to be able to support the upper torso. Seeing the unit in-game though does feel a lot better (camera angle and animations go along way), but it's far from what I would expect from Blizzards Art team, especially the attack animations/particle effects, bland and uninspired.
Heh, for me it was the opposite way around, the picture looked okay, but the in game model looked horrible.
I don't really like how the model is quite a shameless ripoff hommage to the Battletech Warhammer, one of the first and most iconic Battletech Mechs. First released more than 25 years ago one might add.
It doesn't look tough. It feels fragile. It does not fit into the lore of SC. Walkers were designed to intimidate. The walker design was explained as necessary from the usually uneven terrain which made track vehicles impractical.
Terran Dominion designs are macho and intimidating, the only exception was the Science Vessel. Everything else looked hardy and tough, even the SCVs.. The warhound looks like it could fall over just from the tremors of siege tanks firing.
I seriously wouldn't mind another tank unit. It's getting a little too sci-fi with the current warhound design.
On October 25 2011 22:01 Everlong wrote: The purpose of this thread is to collect general opinion and hopefully make Blizzard redesign this otherwise promising unit.
sounds objective. your poll has a nice set of options too. im sure blizzard will listen
hahaha same reaction here.
Came in here to vote in earnest, then didn't and laughed on my way out after seeing the options and the OP's text. :p
On October 25 2011 23:37 wollhandkrabbe wrote: I don't really like how the model is quite a shameless ripoff hommage to the Battletech Warhammer, one of the first and most iconic Battletech Mechs. First released more than 25 years ago one might add.
The sooner you accept and embrace the obvious Warhammer influences in Starcraft, the better off you are. :D
I guess I'm in the minority here but I actually have no problem with the WH design, I think it fits the unit just fine.
I also like how it references the classical battle mech style as well, the radar on the top of it's head looks kinda dorky but aside from that I think it's cool.
They made them look different from the goliath because marauders, battle hellions, landed vikings and warhounds would have looked too similar, also they made the model very tall if you look at the video when they are with hellions. With that said, this model is still ugly.
On October 25 2011 23:47 NormandyBoy wrote: They made them look different from the goliath because marauders, battle hellions, landed vikings and warhounds would have looked too similar, also they made the model very tall if you look at the video when they are with hellions. With that said, this model is still ugly.
The easiest way to not make goliaths is... Reverse the weapon roles!!! Have guns are AA flak guns and the missile is the anti-mechanical weapon.
Have more tracked units. seriously, it's getting retarded now that you've mentioned it. Dustin What have you done to my SC Universe!!!!! *table flip*
On October 25 2011 22:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Out of curiosity, why does everybody dislike the model?
(I get that it looks like previous units from previous games, but that's always going to happen. What about the concept is inherently irritable?)
Awkward proportions and negative space, a little too humaniform, unpolished and assymetrical.
this man just took the words out of my mouth
It just looks very awkward. Not to mention the AA attack just doesn't have enough 'oomph' to it
The Warhound suffers the same issue I have with the hellion in terms of unit art design; it just looks like a step back from their predecessor (ex. hovering super bike that can 2 shot workers and plant most cost effective units 3 times vs a dunebuggy with a flamethrower?)
On October 25 2011 22:01 Everlong wrote: The purpose of this thread is to collect general opinion and hopefully make Blizzard redesign this otherwise promising unit.
sounds objective. your poll has a nice set of options too. im sure blizzard will listen
hahaha same reaction here.
Came in here to vote in earnest, then didn't and laughed on my way out after seeing the options and the OP's text. :p
On October 25 2011 23:37 wollhandkrabbe wrote: I don't really like how the model is quite a shameless ripoff hommage to the Battletech Warhammer, one of the first and most iconic Battletech Mechs. First released more than 25 years ago one might add.
The sooner you accept and embrace the obvious Warhammer influences in Starcraft, the better off you are. :D
Space Marines, Tyranids and Eldar, oh my.
What a brave move, do you feel justified now that you quoted an obvious troll? I mean, you come here, write a bunch of words, don't vote and then even admit you don't feel like voting because the pool didn't meet your usual standards? My intention was not to make a poll that would be put as an example of poll worth including into your final theses.. Now that I think about it I really should've included one more option like "Viper OP" so that people who really feel the need to say something trollish would just vote right there and not proceed to write something stupid absolutely not contributing to anything beside their egos..
Okay I'm not into all those HotS threads too much, but this one is important: the warhound looks fucking awful. Please make it Goliath mk2 with those anti-mech weapon instead of a machine gun, everybody happy.
In the art, it doesn't look that bad. It's a robot that looks terran-ish and realistic. However, when they translated it in the game... idk, it just looks BAD. Look at how it moves, it's like a stick figure. It doesn't look cool at all. It has too many appendages imo (or weapons or whatever you want to call it). In the art you can make that look cool since it's 2D, but in 3D it's just a flat piece of metal walking very stiffly.
Please fix haha. I do not want to mass an ugly unit. Massing Thors is super fun partly cus they look so cool (especially if you have collector's edition, which i don't xD)
Also I think their attack (at least for ground) looks dumb too. It shoots some big bullet out slowly. I think it would be pretty cool for it to be some kind of machine gun actually . But I guess they want it to be a projectile. Even the attack and attack animations look dumb though.
I think the size is fine but really it's just the unit that is ugly. Also it is so very tall, so for the collision size they are going for I think that's why it looks so big. (They want the unit to be wide enough to be bigger than bio units, like the size of a stalker, but the design of the unit is really tall so it looks huge)
Looking at it from above i guess it looks okay, but it's shooting animation looks so strange, really would like to see that fixed at least. Haven't gotten to see it AA-attack yet, if anyone has any links where we could see it i would appreciate it
On October 25 2011 23:17 Blasterion wrote: Warhound should look like.... this.
I was hoping for something like this when I first heard the name Warhound. Could have been a awesome replacement for the Predator in the singleplayer making it lorewise an upgraded version.
I agree... Looking closely, I guess that's the reason why I say it looks so fragile. I mean look at those arms and the radar dish. You mean to tell me that flimsy looking thing can stand up to the nightmare Zerg, indomintable Terran siege lines and Protoss stalker particle beamsof destruction?
It looks it can barely make it to the other side of the base without something falling off.
Terran needs less two stilted robots and more rugged compact track vehicles.
Would be cool to have big nasty blocky hunk of metal with tracks going around the whole hull and just a the weapons sticking out. Turrets on top for fast air tracking, but the ground attack at the front with slower turnaround for aiming. Add tactical complexity and micro to the game.
Even the hellion morph should not become 2 legged, get less surface area and protect the wheels more.
On October 26 2011 00:20 imbecile wrote: Terran needs less two stilted robots and more rugged compact track vehicles.
Would be cool to have big nasty blocky hunk of metal with tracks going around the whole hull and just a the weapons sticking out. Turrets on top for fast air tracking, but the ground attack at the front with slower turnaround for aiming. Add tactical complexity and micro to the game.
Even the hellion morph should not become 2 legged, get less surface area and protect the wheels more.
wow are we twins because when I first heard "Warhound" I was actually really hoping for a turret on tracks hahaha
pity it didnt happen, though I think alot of people would hate our design more than this
On October 25 2011 22:01 Everlong wrote: The purpose of this thread is to collect general opinion and hopefully make Blizzard redesign this otherwise promising unit.
sounds objective. your poll has a nice set of options too. im sure blizzard will listen
hahaha same reaction here.
Came in here to vote in earnest, then didn't and laughed on my way out after seeing the options and the OP's text. :p
On October 25 2011 23:37 wollhandkrabbe wrote: I don't really like how the model is quite a shameless ripoff hommage to the Battletech Warhammer, one of the first and most iconic Battletech Mechs. First released more than 25 years ago one might add.
The sooner you accept and embrace the obvious Warhammer influences in Starcraft, the better off you are. :D
Space Marines, Tyranids and Eldar, oh my.
The Battletech Warhammer is not related to the 40K universe but is from a different franchise that eveolved about the same time.
However there is a bipedal warmachine in the 40K universe that looks a bit similar, oh, and its called a Warhound. I don't think Blizz should keep this name to be honest.
On October 25 2011 22:01 Everlong wrote: The purpose of this thread is to collect general opinion and hopefully make Blizzard redesign this otherwise promising unit.
sounds objective. your poll has a nice set of options too. im sure blizzard will listen
hahaha same reaction here.
Came in here to vote in earnest, then didn't and laughed on my way out after seeing the options and the OP's text. :p
On October 25 2011 23:37 wollhandkrabbe wrote: I don't really like how the model is quite a shameless ripoff hommage to the Battletech Warhammer, one of the first and most iconic Battletech Mechs. First released more than 25 years ago one might add.
The sooner you accept and embrace the obvious Warhammer influences in Starcraft, the better off you are. :D
Space Marines, Tyranids and Eldar, oh my.
The Battletech Warhammer is not related to the 40K universe but is from a different franchise that eveolved about the same time.
However there is a bipedal warmachine in the 40K universe that looks a bit similar, oh, and its called a Warhound. I don't think Blizz should keep this name to be honest.
yep they should have fitted the goliath with new weapons, the majority of people prefer if something looks symmetrical. But i guess they wanted to give it an prototype look, where the designers just cared for the weapon to work. But it wold be more terranish if they would just poked the new anti mech and air weapon on the goliath. But i guess they wanted alot of diversity in the look of mechs. And goliath and thors fill the symmetrical role so it was natural that another mech would look like the warhound heh.
Poor collecters edition people though their collectors edition unit got removed from the multiplayer and is just a super unit now (yet to be removed in the next expansion lol)
PS: remember there is single player as well and i guess there will be more then just the multiplayer units on the enemies side
I know it's supposed to be a little "cobbled together" but it just looks too tall and too gangly.
Thor and goliath (sc2 version) were spot-on perfect models. In a rare (for me) criticism, I have to agree that I hate the model. It just looks flimsy, for some reason.
They should give the design job to some japanese anmator so that they can make the warhound look like a gundam. I might even switched to Terran if they did that, thors were cool but a slender looking gundam type of mech army is just too much for an avid anime fanatic like my to pass up.
On October 25 2011 22:01 Everlong wrote: The purpose of this thread is to collect general opinion and hopefully make Blizzard redesign this otherwise promising unit.
sounds objective. your poll has a nice set of options too. im sure blizzard will listen
hahaha same reaction here.
Came in here to vote in earnest, then didn't and laughed on my way out after seeing the options and the OP's text. :p
On October 25 2011 23:37 wollhandkrabbe wrote: I don't really like how the model is quite a shameless ripoff hommage to the Battletech Warhammer, one of the first and most iconic Battletech Mechs. First released more than 25 years ago one might add.
The sooner you accept and embrace the obvious Warhammer influences in Starcraft, the better off you are. :D
Space Marines, Tyranids and Eldar, oh my.
The Battletech Warhammer is not related to the 40K universe but is from a different franchise that eveolved about the same time.
However there is a bipedal warmachine in the 40K universe that looks a bit similar, oh, and its called a Warhound. I don't think Blizz should keep this name to be honest.
Wow at this point everything i see looks better than the sc2 warhound model ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well they did say it's a work in progress. The 40K warhound does look like a hound though, I've no idea why Blizzard need to use that name other than it sounds cool and goes a bit with the War Pigs name from Terran campaign.
However that goliath model ^^ looks great. Why fix what ain't broke.
I think if they made just a few tweaks to the current design, it would be ok. It just doesn’t look Epic enough. The Thor looks epic.. Especially, if you got the collectors edition.
On October 26 2011 00:54 Geo.Rion wrote: 0 chance Blizzard would take into consideration an awfully biased poll like that
How on earth you can talk about bias here? You don't need formal, serious poll with answer's range 1-5 like back in primary school (some guys prolly still attending..) to see what is going on. It's not like they see stupid Star Wars refference that someone don't get and say, hey - this is stupid and biased, let's better not take those 500 votes into consideration..
On October 26 2011 00:42 BronzeKnee wrote: I've got the perfect model right here, and Blizzard doesn't actually have to do any work:
I'm okay with this.
Heh, using my previous idea, swap the missile bays into this massive anti-aircraft gun with the space as ammunition case and the other side being a smaller barrel for the anti-mechanical weapon.
On October 26 2011 00:20 imbecile wrote: Terran needs less two stilted robots and more rugged compact track vehicles.
Would be cool to have big nasty blocky hunk of metal with tracks going around the whole hull and just a the weapons sticking out. Turrets on top for fast air tracking, but the ground attack at the front with slower turnaround for aiming. Add tactical complexity and micro to the game.
Even the hellion morph should not become 2 legged, get less surface area and protect the wheels more.
wow are we twins because when I first heard "Warhound" I was actually really hoping for a turret on tracks hahaha
pity it didnt happen, though I think alot of people would hate our design more than this
Yeah, wis thinking more of something like this. Big enough for a person of course.
On October 26 2011 01:01 MikeG wrote: It looks like a damn toy, that's what I think. Doesn't "flow" well with the other units, its just so goofy looking.
I agree, it literally does look like a giant action figure.
Its shooting animation reminds me of statements like "detachable missile action!" advertised in action figure commercials from the early 90s.
Admittedly, everything in sc2 is a little bit too fancy and frilly (), but this unit takes the cake tbh.
On October 25 2011 22:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Out of curiosity, why does everybody dislike the model?
(I get that it looks like previous units from previous games, but that's always going to happen. What about the concept is inherently irritable?)
The model just seems kind of slapped together. I think its probably a unit they fleshed out as a model in the week before blizzcon and are showing it for now but will probably get a facelift in the near future.
On October 26 2011 00:54 Geo.Rion wrote: 0 chance Blizzard would take into consideration an awfully biased poll like that
How on earth you can talk about bias here? You don't need formal, serious poll with answer's range 1-5 like back in primary school (some guys prolly still attending..) to see what is going on. It's not like they see stupid Star Wars refference that someone don't get and say, hey - this is stupid and biased, let's better not take those 500 votes into consideration..
Sorry, but why would you take the results of a poll that is biased towards a certain outcome into consideration? That does not make any sense...
On October 26 2011 00:54 Geo.Rion wrote: 0 chance Blizzard would take into consideration an awfully biased poll like that
How on earth you can talk about bias here? You don't need formal, serious poll with answer's range 1-5 like back in primary school (some guys prolly still attending..) to see what is going on. It's not like they see stupid Star Wars refference that someone don't get and say, hey - this is stupid and biased, let's better not take those 500 votes into consideration..
Sorry, but why would you take the results of a poll that is biased towards a certain outcome into consideration? That does not make any sense...
I'm pretty sure 90% people reading this thread are intelligent enough not to change their mind by reading 2-3 sentences where I describe, what is this poll about and where I express my own opinion. Its a poll after all and you shouldn't feel in no way forced into any answer, concidering we are talking about unit design. It's about what you like and not. But I guess it's ok, several guys here can't bear this Star Wars refference, like it's hard to read "I like it, Mechwarrior ftw.." or just "I like it.". What is important is the expression of the comunity and I think this poll is good enough to make a picture..
I dislike the model, but even more than that I dislike the projectile it fires upon ground objects. It almost looks like a nailgun of sorts, but not in a nice way.
On October 26 2011 01:41 Firebolt145 wrote: I dislike the model, but even more than that I dislike the projectile it fires upon ground objects. It almost looks like a nailgun of sorts, but not in a nice way.
Dustin swallow your pride and use your SUPER AWESOME goliath model. Call it the warhound, dress it up, just don't waste your perfect unit model and animation. Seriously so depressed when i played with goliath in single player
It would be awesome if it looked semi-rushed/cobbled together. Considering that there are transformations for 'multi-role' units, i could totally see swanson going "oh shit thor broked, lets throw some missiles onto a random walking gun thing" :D
Could you add this poll to your OP? Thanks, I'm curious to know the results, since a few suggestions have come.
Poll: What should the Warhound look like
Goliath 2.0 ftw! (24)
62%
Should have four legs, like a hound mech from WoL (4)
10%
I like GUNDAMs (4)
10%
It needs to look more sturdy/tough/menacing. (3)
8%
A thor but more agile looking (3)
8%
A tank is fine too (1)
3%
It looks awesome! (0)
0%
I'm not sure, looks okay I guess (0)
0%
Super vulture inspired (0)
0%
39 total votes
Your vote: What should the Warhound look like
(Vote): It looks awesome! (Vote): I'm not sure, looks okay I guess (Vote): It needs to look more sturdy/tough/menacing. (Vote): A thor but more agile looking (Vote): Goliath 2.0 ftw! (Vote): Should have four legs, like a hound mech from WoL (Vote): A tank is fine too (Vote): Super vulture inspired (Vote): I like GUNDAMs
On October 26 2011 00:42 BronzeKnee wrote: I've got the perfect model right here, and Blizzard doesn't actually have to do any work:
this one will also peck the ground like hounds do?
anyway, the only problem I have with the warhound's looks is that it's nothing like the battle hellion stylewise. these 2 new units weren't made by the same terran race. the contrast is absolutely ridiculous. what the hell is terran style now?
Ya, for real.. just put those stats on a goliath ffs.. becaus eonestly, it basically is a goliath
If not, give it something better it is an epicly powerful unit Seems to be another anti-protoss unit for terran though (As everything protoss has is merchanical).
They need something better to deal with mutalisks mutas are instane against terran.
On October 26 2011 00:54 Geo.Rion wrote: 0 chance Blizzard would take into consideration an awfully biased poll like that
How on earth you can talk about bias here? You don't need formal, serious poll with answer's range 1-5 like back in primary school (some guys prolly still attending..) to see what is going on. It's not like they see stupid Star Wars refference that someone don't get and say, hey - this is stupid and biased, let's better not take those 500 votes into consideration..
Sorry, but why would you take the results of a poll that is biased towards a certain outcome into consideration? That does not make any sense...
I'm pretty sure 90% people reading this thread are intelligent enough not to change their mind by reading 2-3 sentences where I describe, what is this poll about and where I express my own opinion. Its a poll after all and you shouldn't feel in no way forced into any answer, concidering we are talking about unit design. It's about what you like and not. But I guess it's ok, several guys here can't bear this Star Wars refference, like it's hard to read "I like it, Mechwarrior ftw.." or just "I like it.". What is important is the expression of the comunity and I think this poll is good enough to make a picture..
Not really. There's a reason word choice is so important and talked about in polling/surveying. Stuff far more subtle than this poll affect answers. This poll is EXTREMELY biased.
It looks weird, but it has a certain appeal with its awkward and ungainly gait. I also like how it shoots those visible missiles, seems like a lot of fun to mass up.
As far as looks, it's too tall and too skinny for my liking. Something that feels a bit thicker and rooted to the ground would look better imo. That's just how I feel mech should look.
looks spinky, fragile, something someone built in that scrapheap challenge on discovery channel years ago. Also a copy from so many crap series, at least if they copy something, take a real gundam suit or some crud.
On October 27 2011 03:05 Thrill wrote: Wow, i really hate these worthless topics. Unwarranted panic for the win...
Imo the colossus is the unit that totally ruins SC2, looks like shit but you don't hear me complaining or making a topic with a biased poll about it.
The window for feedback on all announced HotS units is now... The feedback window for WoL was over since going gold.
Speak now or forever hold your peace.
Implying that Blizzard are reading all of this?
Anyway I thought the design looked fucking weird but now I've seen it in action I actually think it looks sick. Dunno, just the way it walks and moves looks pretty cool to me.
It's literally the worst looking model I've ever seen blizzard design in any game. I can only imagine it was a placeholder for Blizzcon. It would have gone over better if they had just ported in a white square with a gif of the BW goliath walking around.
That thing needs to be changed right now. The art team for HotS better be pulling an all-nighter AS WE SPEAK.
It looks like a DEVOLUTION of the goliath. Why would terran tech look more rusty and crappy than the old terran? We know they have the models for goliath in the game.
The only reason I can imagine they didn't just give us the goliath straight up is that it would require them admitting they were mistaken not to put that unit in the game in the first place. DB saying they didn't think about BW when designing these units is talking out of his ass. This is a goliath in every way that we've seen. Why get rid of the cool looking unit then?
The old goliath voice was amazing too. No more "goliath on-line."
Agree that the design is terrible. It looks weak, it looks totally messy with scrap bits everywhere and any piece looks like its gonna drop off anytime. Its asymmetrical and the top looks too broad for its wimpy legs.
The bullets it shoots move so slowly and has so little impact that it feels more like little hydra needles than the raw firepower terran should field.
And please leave the robots to protoss. Terran needs more bad ass huge raw firepower clunky vehicles imo
Damn it! I misvoted. I actually hate the look of the Warhog. I would never play terran if that unit makes it in. Edit: ^^ I'm sorry but you just have bad taste. No offense
Petition to put predator in the game! lol. Would honestly be so cool, even if it's not true to terran. It's not like huge gundams are very terran either.
i don't really like the optical design either, but i could live with it tbh, what i found much worse was the walking animation, as far as i saw it on the stream it kinda looks like it's somehow ... idk, swaggering? maybe it only looked that way on the stream... but yeah, i thought it looked kinda stupid :<
It would be AWESOME to have it be like a Goliath 2.0, basically the same look as the Goliath but with new weapons maybe, like the return of the Goliath
EDIT: I forgot to mention, I actually mostly like the model for the Warhound, it looks like something out of Battletech! Perhaps the legs could look a little sturdier tho
The model looks really detailed with the sheild, guns, radar, etc. However these small details make the unit look flimsy. It doesn't look chunky and solid like the other factory units. Almost looks like you could push it over and it couldn't get back up.
On October 27 2011 07:40 isneakattack wrote: The model looks really detailed with the sheild, guns, radar, etc. However these small details make the unit look flimsy. It doesn't look chunky and solid like the other factory units. Almost looks like you could push it over and it couldn't get back up.
The unit looks bad imo atleast the thor looked badass at least, why is it bigger than a siege tank geez. Blizzard should make the animations of projectiles way better. Puny looking missles and tons of lasers for protoss its soo boring to watch sometimes.
Dustin Browder leaked it to me, in LOTV The battle cruiser can now transform into a thor. You heard it here!
The warhound for some reason reminds me of playing banjoo Kazooie on the n64, like some robot that you talk to, to do a quest or something in the level. Warhound feels like it came from a completely different game.
The Warhound model also reminds me of these other images
On October 25 2011 23:37 wollhandkrabbe wrote: I don't really like how the model is quite a shameless ripoff hommage to the Battletech Warhammer, one of the first and most iconic Battletech Mechs. First released more than 25 years ago one might add.
Was gonna say that. I love it for that reason, too bad I won't probably ever play terran.
this unit SO deserves a better model; the current one is absolutely NOT up to blizzard standards. hopefully it will be tweaked; the models in the beta were refined so there is certainly hope for the new HOTS models as well.
i'd rather have a modified goliath model for the warhound.
The model could be tweaked a little, it could be shorter with same width (aka adjust the scale). The animation is worse than the model imo, it looks to clumsy and has a weird walk cycle that just look funny.
On October 26 2011 01:40 Everlong wrote: I'm pretty sure 90% people reading this thread are intelligent enough not to change their mind by reading 2-3 sentences where I describe, what is this poll about and where I express my own opinion. Its a poll after all and you shouldn't feel in no way forced into any answer, concidering we are talking about unit design. It's about what you like and not. But I guess it's ok, several guys here can't bear this Star Wars refference, like it's hard to read "I like it, Mechwarrior ftw.." or just "I like it.". What is important is the expression of the comunity and I think this poll is good enough to make a picture..
Okay here's a (true) example I like it. I don't like it because of a star wars reference. So what option do I have? But people who don't like it have one pretty straightforward option. I don't vote. Everyone who dislikes it does vote.
Suddenly the "like" group is underrepresented because some of us haven't voted since none of the options agree with us.
If you want a serious poll you should use serious options. It is humorous you want to send a rigged poll to Blizzard. They wouldn't care either way even if answers weren't made in an attempt to be funny, but at least your OP would not look so embarrassing.
I dont like it. As people have said it looks like a giant scv with legs. Also why does it have a shield? Its like 4x larger than a siege tank yet it has a marine sized shield on its arm lol. what is it protecting?
I dislike the look in general. Thor and banshees werent particularily attractive but they grew on you cos of the characht (THOR IS HERE) and the sleekness of kiting/cloak. The way i see it the warhound is going to go in the direction of that other anti-armor/mechanical unit... the marauder. Which is just dull and universally hated.
Whats more this thing has 7 range? Could there roles be any less similar? LOL why dont they just give us the thor back and make an even bigger thor for a hero?
On October 25 2011 22:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Out of curiosity, why does everybody dislike the model?
(I get that it looks like previous units from previous games, but that's always going to happen. What about the concept is inherently irritable?)
First of all it looks ridiculously top-heavy. A mech walker type unit that is large enough to be piloted by a person needs a much wider stance, or bigger legs/feet to keep it from falling over. Not only would that make it look more realistic, but it would make it look more intimidating - just look at the Goliath, or a large majority of BattleTech mechs. Even look at the Summoner or Thor from the BattleTech universe, that on first glance it seems similar to. It still has a much lower center of gravity, larger legs/feet, and does NOT look like it's about to tip over like the Warhound does: compared to
Second of all, it has about a million things that are asymmetrical on it - the two arms, the shield, the one missile pod, etc. Once again, makes it much less intimidating, much more confusing as to what it's actually supposed to be doing, and makes it look more like some farmer made it out of spare parts rather than it being a weapon of war (I know that's actually kind of the lore on it, but come on.. it's not cool, like Blizzard thinks it is. Having an intimidating, symmetrical mechanized weapon of war is much cooler than derpy looking robots being made out of spare parts).
Third, as many people have pointed out, it looks like a big SCV. It's not the fact that it resembles another unit that makes it bad, it's the fact that the unit it's resembling, the SCV, isn't exactly badass. In fact it isn't in the slightest, and it makes the Warhound, in turn, appear to not even be able to hurt a flea.
Fourth, it looks much too humanoid. It has too many movable joints. Upon first glance, without knowing anything about it, you would have absolutely no clue as to what this thing does. It might actually just be a bigger SCV that mines minerals, for all you know.
Just look at the Goliath, in contrast:
It has a low center of gravity, reverse-joint legs, and two completely straight cannons for arms, rather than two completely flexible and different arms that seem like they can pick flowers in the park. You know on first glance exactly what the Goliath's purpose is - it shoots the fuck out of things in front of it with machine gun cannons as arms. You can't recognize anything that the Warhound does when you look at it - you need to read its description.
Overall, there's a ton of factors that just make it look completely not intimidating or menacing at all, and in turn, make it not "cool" (no matter how cool Blizzard thinks that duct taping leaf blowers to the backs of lawn mowers for the Terran army is).
Everyone is saying "it looks like X" without seeming to point out that all of the other pictures that have been posted all look like each other too. There's nothing new under the sun, it doesn't matter that it looks like something else.
What matters is that it just doesn't look good, if you ask me.
On October 28 2011 00:12 emythrel wrote: I really hope what they showed isn't the final model. It would be a shame to have such an ugly unit walking around with my sexy rine/ruader ball
Why does Battle hellion look decent and WH is so ugly
On October 28 2011 00:08 Oliwoli wrote: Everyone is saying "it looks like X" without seeming to point out that all of the other pictures that have been posted all look like each other too. There's nothing new under the sun, it doesn't matter that it looks like something else.
What matters is that it just doesn't look good, if you ask me.
I agree. I don't care if it looks like something else... it looks awkward, not good.
It looks awkward because the shape just doesn't make sense. Every Terran unit in WoL, except the Raven, has a shape that fits the purpose of the unit. If i had to design those units (read machines with the same purpose) in real life, the overall architecture of each unit would be quite close to how they look in the game (if the technology they use would be available & feasible in the real world). This beast does not. It looks like a "damn, the footprint of the Thor was too big. Let's create a slimmer Thor". The main reason is described a few post above... It's too top heavy. It looks like it can topple over any second. How would this thing ever be able to traverse through sand or ice/snow? And how does it stay upright when it launches a projectile? There are bipedal robots IRL that are top heavy, with slim legs, but those robots are a lot quicker and use unbalance specificly as part of the way they move. The warhound doesn't.
In real live the function and design of a product have a much closer relation too each other than most people realise.
(1) A quick fix would be to pump more steroids into the legs of this monster. The goliath shape would be a step in the right direction. (2) But i'm not even sure if a humanoid shape is a good fit for this unit. Personally think a SAM launcher kind of vehicle with an additional big gun at the front for ground to ground or some kind of four legged contraption would fit the unit much better. On the other hand, i do understand that robots attract a lot of people to the game. (3) The concept art of the warhound, although long and slim, actually looks a lot better than the in-game unit, because the top part looks less bulky. I did a very very quick exercise in photoshop to see how the warhound would look when the top part is less bulky, by removing the two 'boxes' next too the window/seat. IMO this is a big improvement already and wouldn't take a lot of effort to implement...
(I don't think the game actually needs this unit. I think it's too good versus protoss and not good enough versus mutas.)
EDIT> I actually like this a lot for this unit...
On October 27 2011 03:09 HostilSpike wrote: I'd love it to be a small scale, slightly updated ARES:
I would be 'slightly' more happy with the model if they removed the stupid shield on its shoulder. I think Blizzard has a shield fetish or something. I agree that it's quite ugly, and more so, not cool looking. I also don't like the main gun that looks like a sniper rifle, doesn't really fit it, imo.
The Goliath actually looks more like the ED-209 from robocop, but Goliath 2.0 is what I feel makes sense, feels like an evolution which is something humans naturally do with tools or objects or matrials as a species or culutre; they build on what they know or already works.
I feel what makes the Goliath have girth or weight is its inverted legs like the back legs of a quadrabed mammal(horse, lion, wolf, etc). And then like the Goliath, the legs hold a very heavy top.
These are some reference pictures I have found on the web that look like a Goliath 2.0 I take no credit for any of the art work.
On October 27 2011 17:06 JonSki wrote: Sorry my thrid post in a matter of seconds and couldnt find a better picture but the district 9 mech robot is also a class model!
I really wouldn't mind something like this unit for Protoss. I mean it was sort of the same concept with dragoons, though I think goons were only for injured Protoss. But something like this would also be cool. A zealot would be in there and the robot would have longer psi blades. It wouldnt be too huge or anything, just maybe twice the size of a zealot. Does melee splash damage :D Seeing it in district 9 made me think of protoss.
On October 28 2011 00:12 emythrel wrote: I really hope what they showed isn't the final model. It would be a shame to have such an ugly unit walking around with my sexy rine/ruader ball
Why does Battle hellion look decent and WH is so ugly
hey man the battle hellion looks awesome, so i'm sure the same art team can make something that doesn't look like a plastic toy.
HOPEFULLY
edit:
HOLY SHIT LET'S GIVE TERRAN EVANGELIONS. I would pay 20$ extra just for an Eva-02.
Get the campaign predator unit, stick rocket launchers on the top of its hind legs, make it look more canine and less feline, there u have it, warhound.
I'd like to keep it, but I think Blizzard should create a contest followed by a poll for the community to determine it's name. First off should be a contest whereby everyone submits their name / other random info for the unit and after blizzard sorts through the shitstorm of terrible names that can pick, say, 6-12 that they think are okay and put them up for a poll.
Definitely the most underwhelming new unit in terms of appearance. I'm sure blizzard will fix this before HoTS comes out. Remember how lame the Raven looked back when it was the Nomad?
I mean it looks kinda ugly, but thats kinda how i imagine terran to be: raw fuckin war machines. they dont give a shit about appearances. Strap grenades to some dudes wrists and call him a Marauder, pop a flamethrower onto this go kart and call it a Hellion. As long as it can get into the dirt and start bustin shit up they dont care how it looks.
On October 28 2011 00:12 emythrel wrote: I really hope what they showed isn't the final model. It would be a shame to have such an ugly unit walking around with my sexy rine/ruader ball
Why does Battle hellion look decent and WH is so ugly
hey man the battle hellion looks awesome, so i'm sure the same art team can make something that doesn't look like a plastic toy.
HOPEFULLY
edit:
HOLY SHIT LET'S GIVE TERRAN EVANGELIONS. I would pay 20$ extra just for an Eva-02.
On October 25 2011 22:01 Everlong wrote: The purpose of this thread is to collect general opinion and hopefully make Blizzard redesign this otherwise promising unit.
sounds objective. your poll has a nice set of options too. im sure blizzard will listen
hahaha same reaction here.
Came in here to vote in earnest, then didn't and laughed on my way out after seeing the options and the OP's text. :p
On October 25 2011 23:37 wollhandkrabbe wrote: I don't really like how the model is quite a shameless ripoff hommage to the Battletech Warhammer, one of the first and most iconic Battletech Mechs. First released more than 25 years ago one might add.
The sooner you accept and embrace the obvious Warhammer influences in Starcraft, the better off you are. :D
Space Marines, Tyranids and Eldar, oh my.
What a brave move, do you feel justified now that you quoted an obvious troll? I mean, you come here, write a bunch of words, don't vote and then even admit you don't feel like voting because the pool didn't meet your usual standards? My intention was not to make a poll that would be put as an example of poll worth including into your final theses.. Now that I think about it I really should've included one more option like "Viper OP" so that people who really feel the need to say something trollish would just vote right there and not proceed to write something stupid absolutely not contributing to anything beside their egos..
I'm thinking he's just saying that'd he'd prefer a more objective, perhaps likert based, poll if we're going to show our collective opinions to Blizzard. Frankly, I think I'd agree. It would show a more serious and more mature expression of something some of us apparently feel strongly about.
On October 28 2011 00:12 emythrel wrote: I really hope what they showed isn't the final model. It would be a shame to have such an ugly unit walking around with my sexy rine/ruader ball
Why does Battle hellion look decent and WH is so ugly
hey man the battle hellion looks awesome, so i'm sure the same art team can make something that doesn't look like a plastic toy.
HOPEFULLY
edit:
HOLY SHIT LET'S GIVE TERRAN EVANGELIONS. I would pay 20$ extra just for an Eva-02.
yes. lets have evangelions! :DD
You mean a mech unit that has a massive gauss rifle and go berserk, pouncing on mechanical units tearing them limb from limb while eating them for HP?
On October 30 2011 13:13 Reborn8u wrote: Yea, it's pretty lame imo.
Here is a loki from mechwarrior.....
and here is the warhound.....
Seems the design team just slapped on enough attention to make it a not-copyright-violation Loki version. If that's the case, they should just make the right arm a shield arm (gundam/battle tech hybrid). Looking like a giant marine.
There is no oomph to this design. I personally prefer something a little bit sturdier with better armaments (have you seen the firing animation? horrendous).
Now, imagine three Phalanx CIWS on him. Something like 8 or 9 range with +Armored and a nice firing sound/animation. Give it a fast rate of attack (about on par with stimmed marines) and something like 4+4, 1 armor, and 160 HP for 125M/60G with 2.75 speed.
The shredder needs a bit of a re-design also. I would make it a burrowed unit until an enemy unit comes in range and then it unburrows and sends out pulses of damage (like a nova explosion). I also would have it affect friendly units & it would always be on. (Also would like to have it be able to hold position like a Lurker...would create a lot of excitement) That's for another topic though.
Maybe something more like this since it had ground and air weapon I can imagine it with Terran mech colors and more car polished armour plating and badges sprayed on it like old world war fighter planes.
In one of the panels, they said that some of what they showed was largely incomplete stuff they just threw together into something presentable. I'm really hoping the Warhound is one of those things. That's why I'm not really concerned about the attack animations. The art design is my biggest concern. It looks more like a jerry rigged scv/ gundam than a high tech military vehicle like a lot of the other terran units. I think someone said that they were hoping to make a lower tech looking unit to demonstrate the Terrans' haste and desperation to making new vehicles for their armies. Is that true?
i dislike it mostly because it's legs do not seem able to support the rectangular block it calls a body. it needs to be a bit stockier at least. also, warhound just makes makes it sound like a quadruped, the biped design makes it look very like a AT-ST (?) walker
It looks to much like the Loki from Mechwarrior for my taste. I think Blizzard needs to be a tad bit more creative while at the same time look back at its own roots. Take inspiration from the Goliath and kinda mix it in with a new idea.
In /r/starcraft's interview, Browder briefly discusses the Warhound and the art. Apparantly it has gone through 3 changes in the past month and they just grabbed what seemed to be the best choice at the time for BlizzCon.
I do agree with a lot of people here though. The reason I played Terran in BW was because of how cool I thought Goliaths and Siege Tanks looked, so I definitely wouldn't mind some heavy inspiration from that unit.
In /r/starcraft's interview, Browder briefly discusses the Warhound and the art. Apparantly it has gone through 3 changes in the past month and they just grabbed what seemed to be the best choice at the time for BlizzCon.
I do agree with a lot of people here though. The reason I played Terran in BW was because of how cool I thought Goliaths and Siege Tanks looked, so I definitely wouldn't mind some heavy inspiration from that unit.
well he said theres a chance of them going back to the goliath....
In /r/starcraft's interview, Browder briefly discusses the Warhound and the art. Apparantly it has gone through 3 changes in the past month and they just grabbed what seemed to be the best choice at the time for BlizzCon.
I do agree with a lot of people here though. The reason I played Terran in BW was because of how cool I thought Goliaths and Siege Tanks looked, so I definitely wouldn't mind some heavy inspiration from that unit.
Lol at the end on the destructible rocks. What a gagster. :D
On October 30 2011 16:12 BrosephBrostar wrote: if they bring the goliath back wouldn't they have to change the viking too?
sshh, that would mean blizzard actually thought about the implications of a unit before implementing it. and that would be ludacris
Gotta say i was concerned when dustin said that they were not even considering things like terrans being forced to use more scans to deal with more burrowed stuff etc in the TL interview, he said it in a like NOOOO we dont even think that far ahead, we will get there when the game is out type of stance
On October 30 2011 16:12 BrosephBrostar wrote: if they bring the goliath back wouldn't they have to change the viking too?
sshh, that would mean blizzard actually thought about the implications of a unit before implementing it. and that would be ludacris
Gotta say i was concerned when dustin said that they were not even considering things like terrans being forced to use more scans to deal with more burrowed stuff etc in the TL interview, he said it in a like NOOOO we dont even think that far ahead, we will get there when the game is out type of stance
my sentiment exactly. it seems like they're kind of just going "hey what's the most ridiculous shit we can implement into the game?!" and going off that. i know they'll test and some of these units might not make it in, but a lot of them seem ridiculous and heavy-handed
OMG LOL the rocks/4th race discussion was HILARIOUS lol !
If they bring the goliath back, they will probably make viking do extra vs light instead of vs armored or just lots of damage to all kinds of air (they probably won't make goliaths good against both light and armored)
the problem with the warhound is that it looks like a mechwarrior loki that you could kick over no problem. it doesn't project power. like ultras have always been scary no matter how much they sucked. warhounds will never be scary no matter how OP they can make them.
Kind of stupid to ruin a polls validity with that Star Wars comment. I do not really mind it, doubt Blizzard will change it anyway so I do not see a reason to get hung up about it.
honestly they could have copied so many better mechs: + Show Spoiler +
jeez that makes me nostalgic for mw4 now. it ruined all the fun for me though when i finally took the time to calculate on an excel spreadsheet all the damage per time rates and damage per weight rates for every weapon. came up with an OP daishi variant that could 2 shot most mechs no problem. so broken.
but as far as the warhound goes, i'm confident it will get changed.
Looks a bit like a unit that belongs in C&C or Supreme Commander, or Battletech. I'm completely fine with it being in SC2, but it seems very uninspired none the less.
On October 25 2011 22:10 Archybaldie wrote: Whenever i look at it i see the loki from mechwarrior.
Yeah, or a Warhammer or Summoner
On October 30 2011 17:24 TheDraken wrote: jeez that makes me nostalgic for mw4 now.
There's a really cool battletech mod for Crysis (that I've never played)
On October 30 2011 18:13 Xapti wrote: Looks a bit like a unit that belongs in C&C or Supreme Commander, or Battletech. I'm completely fine with it being in SC2, but it seems very uninspired none the less.
On October 25 2011 22:10 Archybaldie wrote: Whenever i look at it i see the loki from mechwarrior.
Yeah, or a Warhammer or Summoner
Exactly. Compared to Thors, goliaths, Vikings, Vultures, wraiths, battlecruisers, predators, Odin, marines, firebats, marauders and raven looks as out of place as an accountant in a Delta Force company.
anyone interested in mechwarrior 4 again, Microsoft released the full version of mercs for free this year, and mektek has been (and still is) patching and updating the game.
Also, the crysis mod Living Legends is really, really good. It's a very, very technical throwback to the old style of mechwarrior (in-cockpit only, complex controls, very hard to use, players can be infantry, helicopters, tanks/artillery, jets, etc.)
Looks terribad ,the model in HoTS Custom game looks 100x better ,jezus christ blizzard get your **** together and don't put this abomination into the game.
On October 30 2011 16:12 BrosephBrostar wrote: if they bring the goliath back wouldn't they have to change the viking too?
sshh, that would mean blizzard actually thought about the implications of a unit before implementing it. and that would be ludacris
Gotta say i was concerned when dustin said that they were not even considering things like terrans being forced to use more scans to deal with more burrowed stuff etc in the TL interview, he said it in a like NOOOO we dont even think that far ahead, we will get there when the game is out type of stance
I rather prefer it that way. Blizzard's job is to make interesting units that fit within certain race-specific design ethics, then adjust these units so that the game is fair to all players (ie: balanced).
So what if it makes Terrans use more scans or lay down some more detectors? As long as it doesn't unbalance the game, it's fine. What matters is whether the Terrans can reasonably adapt to the new environment that involves more burrowed attackers. And they will only be able to tell if that's the case by playtesting.
It's like saying that a unit that has AoE, lots of single-target damage, and has 11 range attacks is unfair because it forces the enemy to work around it. By your logic, Blizzard ca. 1997 should have scrapped the Siege Tank.
You make cool stuff, then you make it work. And burrow-move Banelings is undoubtedly cool. It may be brutally unfair, but so are Siege Tanks. Adapt and overcome.
I'd do away with the arms, and shorten the torso as a whole to make it look less like an SCV.
I'd put the cannon over one shoulder, and use the big bulky design that Marine machine guns have in the concept art, but obviously scaled upwards. Particularly notable would be the big heavy barrels and enormous caliber of the weapon. For the AA missiles, I really like the Thor's back-mounted style, but honestly what I think would be even cooler would be a pair of flak cannons on the back, which would make more sense as a light+ splash weapon (ala Red Alert 2).
It looks weak. Weakness is not a good look for a war unit. Plus this is a video game, half the reason to play is cause it looks cool. Make it look cool.
And Blizzard is trying way too hard to NOT be like BW regardless of what they say. BW was awesome and instead of running away from it, embrace it. You can call the Warhound whatever you like, but its a Goliath. Just a crappier version.
On November 05 2011 12:04 mlspmatt wrote: It looks weak. Weakness is not a good look for a war unit. Plus this is a video game, half the reason to play is cause it looks cool. Make it look cool.
And Blizzard is trying way too hard to NOT be like BW regardless of what they say. BW was awesome and instead of running away from it, embrace it. You can call the Warhound whatever you like, but its a Goliath. Just a crappier version.
If Blizzard were really trying not to be like SC1, then they would have ditched the Siege Tank long ago. No, Blizzard's problem is that they want to have it both ways. They want to keep certain "iconic" units, but having those iconic units forces them into a narrow design space that leads to units that are similar to SC1 units.
Siege Tanks are produced at a Factory, and their primary vulnerability is from air units. So long as that's true, there needs to be at least one decent anti-air unit from the Factory, or things don't really work.
Also, besides how it looks, what's "crappier" about it? That it doesn't have ridiculous range? That it's GtG attack is actually good? That it has AoE on its GtA attack?
On November 05 2011 12:04 mlspmatt wrote: It looks weak. Weakness is not a good look for a war unit. Plus this is a video game, half the reason to play is cause it looks cool. Make it look cool.
And Blizzard is trying way too hard to NOT be like BW regardless of what they say. BW was awesome and instead of running away from it, embrace it. You can call the Warhound whatever you like, but its a Goliath. Just a crappier version.
If Blizzard were really trying not to be like SC1, then they would have ditched the Siege Tank long ago. No, Blizzard's problem is that they want to have it both ways. They want to keep certain "iconic" units, but having those iconic units forces them into a narrow design space that leads to units that are similar to SC1 units.
Siege Tanks are produced at a Factory, and their primary vulnerability is from air units. So long as that's true, there needs to be at least one decent anti-air unit from the Factory, or things don't really work.
Also, besides how it looks, what's "crappier" about it? That it doesn't have ridiculous range? That it's GtG attack is actually good? That it has AoE on its GtA attack?
The role of Goliath was GtA that could shoot ground as a secondary. Every race has a GtA unit, Hydralisks and Dragoons/Stalkers. The only difference was in BW, mass muta was dealt by Goliath and in WoL, the Thor.
I think the Warhound shouldn't have been made at all. Let the shredder take over GtA defence role and remove the warhound entirely since marines fulfil the GtA role quite well.
On November 05 2011 12:04 mlspmatt wrote: It looks weak. Weakness is not a good look for a war unit. Plus this is a video game, half the reason to play is cause it looks cool. Make it look cool.
And Blizzard is trying way too hard to NOT be like BW regardless of what they say. BW was awesome and instead of running away from it, embrace it. You can call the Warhound whatever you like, but its a Goliath. Just a crappier version.
If Blizzard were really trying not to be like SC1, then they would have ditched the Siege Tank long ago. No, Blizzard's problem is that they want to have it both ways. They want to keep certain "iconic" units, but having those iconic units forces them into a narrow design space that leads to units that are similar to SC1 units.
Siege Tanks are produced at a Factory, and their primary vulnerability is from air units. So long as that's true, there needs to be at least one decent anti-air unit from the Factory, or things don't really work.
Also, besides how it looks, what's "crappier" about it? That it doesn't have ridiculous range? That it's GtG attack is actually good? That it has AoE on its GtA attack?
The role of Goliath was GtA that could shoot ground as a secondary. Every race has a GtA unit, Hydralisks and Dragoons/Stalkers. The only difference was in BW, mass muta was dealt by Goliath and in WoL, the Thor.
I think the Warhound shouldn't have been made at all. Let the shredder take over GtA defence role and remove the warhound entirely since marines fulfil the GtA role quite well.
Hydralisks and Dragoons were not GtA units. They were ground units that could shoot air; they did the same damage to air targets as ground. The Goliath had 10 range GtA attacks with 10x2 explosive GtA attacks, which gain +2 per missile per upgrade.
Hydralisks and Dragoons were just generalist ranged units; Goliaths were specialists. They were made to kill air. They had to kill air in order to prevent Siege Tanks from being overrun by AtG units.
The problem with using Marines to be GtA is the lack of range. The GtA defense unit for Siege Tanks needs to be able to ward off air attacks, but it also needs to cover as much territory as the Siege Tanks themselves. Otherwise, they can force your Marine ball out of position (send some Mutas forward) then flank you with their superior mobility to pick off tanks.
You can't flank the 10 range of Goliaths; that's why BW gave them that upgrade. Even if they give chase for a bit, they've still got more than 50% of the range of most AtG attackers.
Also, Marines don't come from Factories, so they don't get the same upgrades as STs. So you have to split upgrades. Plus, Marines have squat for HP, so any decent AoE can neutralize them. Notice that Goliaths have neither of those weaknesses.
The upgrade structure of the Terrans mean that they have to pick a building and more or less stick with it. So each building (except the StarPort) needs to be more or less self-sufficient. The Factory needs some kind of GtA option.
I greatly disklike it. It looks like a weird pastiche of various weapons on a box with legs. Why does it have a satellite dish and a boombox on it's shoulders (direct tv?)?. It just looks like something blizzard threw together because they wanted it to NOT be a Goliath. Just make it a damned goliath that shoots anti-mech ground to ground shells instead of guns.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lOvai.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/p7svg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.ifelix.net/images987/gkdread01.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hZyjH.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GaO0S.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/102/e/8/charge_by_flyingdebris-d3dtbyh.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/iTT4V.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/images/2/28/GoliathMerc_SC2_Rend1.JPEG)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5uAuZ.png)
), but this unit takes the cake tbh.
![[image loading]](http://vintagevolts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/johnny5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100901192458/starcraft/images/0/07/ARES_SC2_Game1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/22300000/Destroids-robotech-22360844-200-195.gif)
![[image loading]](http://rpggamer.org/uploaded_images/x5nAS4iYJXz-HlOWzXMtXQFrXQW8qKri014F.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://eyeforthings.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/destroid_tomahawks_ep29.png)
![[image loading]](http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgw53nIOmW1qhrogvo1_500.png)
![[image loading]](http://media.strategywiki.org/images/0/01/MechWarrior_2_Mercenaries_box.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i029.radikal.ru/1108/70/b763c445d4e6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g144/razioak/timberwolfcutaway.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1eOIWm33Uew/Su5rXtYJjcI/AAAAAAAAAKE/b2b9pJY_odM/s400/BattleMech_MadCat_by_SDouglas.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RZeHA.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://homepages.vvm.com/~whayden/Waste/goliath.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Ed-209.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VUqa0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/n9tbv.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Z7IT5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0OYaU.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://lh3.ggpht.com/_4MUf6T4VzPw/TITmcJNeucI/AAAAAAAAQxY/J1emOiRWcQU/s800/chibirobo-shorty-robot-papercraft.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4MUf6T4VzPw/TcDfHUTGz6I/AAAAAAAAUf0/4ONQVFAC5C8/s800/senkosha-papercraft-robot-0.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4MUf6T4VzPw/TcDfHR2oN4I/AAAAAAAAUfw/ovGd5V66e50/s800/senkosha-papercraft-robot-1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.solaris7.com/Files/Members/602/Warhammer.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/mechassault/images/3/35/Summoner.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/10/medium_warhound_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/images/7/7c/Goliath_SC1_Art1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/e/e9/At-st_large_pic.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/3824/warhoundfix.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://digital-art-gallery.com/oid/27/640x500_6270_Claus_2d_illustration_robot_mech_sci_fi_picture_image_digital_art.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://th00.deviantart.net/fs13/PRE/i/2007/120/8/6/Corporate_Assault_mech_by_flyingdebris.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/337/4/7/the_fiddler_by_flyingdebris-d345p45.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://th02.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/102/4/8/advancing_by_flyingdebris-d3dtbop.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs12/i/2006/284/5/b/T45_Russian_mech_by_Rafta.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.alibaba.com/wsphoto/v0/491656641/-Alice-papermodel-front-mission-BattleField-2142-L5-Riesig-robot-models.summ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/images/blizzcon/newunits/warhound-480-2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vXaAj.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2Uv2h.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SsDf9.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/113/1/b/mecha___daitochi_by_reneaugustus-d3ebeul.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs13/f/2006/362/a/f/Corporate_Assault_mech_by_flyingdebris.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://trm.mektek.net/images/hellhound.gif)
![[image loading]](http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/6473/371245-screen11_large_super.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/9/8528/CL_Vulture.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.solaris7.com/files/members/4659/Uziel_UZL-4S.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://keiththegooner.footballunited.com/files/2011/02/ed209.jpg)
