EPT[D]Are mutalisks overpowered in WOL?? - Page 95
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
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sleigh bells
United States358 Posts
On January 22 2012 06:54 Arayon wrote: I think they have to reduce Mutas cost, because ATM theyre the most cost-ineffective Unit in the whole game. I mean, 50 Marines with Stim and Shields crush 50 1-1 upgraded Mutas, which means that 2500 Mins defeat 5000/5000 mins/gas. Now you can say that therefore Mutas have a high mobility and extreme map control - AND THATS WHAT I MEAN! If one Protoss Ship can defeat so many Mutas, why should i even build them? They need to reduce Marines cost, because ATM they're the most cost-ineffective unit in the whole game. I mean, if you walk 50 marines into like 6 banelings they could all die... ... | ||
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Olsson
Sweden931 Posts
On January 23 2012 02:40 sleigh bells wrote: They need to reduce Marines cost, because ATM they're the most cost-ineffective unit in the whole game. I mean, if you walk 50 marines into like 6 banelings they could all die... ... Or you look at high level play where they stim and outrun banelings before splitting and trading very cost-effectively vs banelings. And with mutas vs marines it isnt a matter of "if" or "could" but it happends, marines can trade cost inneffecitvely vs banes but mutas will trade costineffectively vs marines | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On January 23 2012 03:49 Olsson wrote: Or you look at high level play where they stim and outrun banelings before splitting and trading very cost-effectively vs banelings. And with mutas vs marines it isnt a matter of "if" or "could" but it happends, marines can trade cost inneffecitvely vs banes but mutas will trade costineffectively vs marines I see you don't get the sarcasm.... Well it just so happens people can micro Mutas too. | ||
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lindn
Sweden833 Posts
On January 23 2012 05:48 Blasterion wrote: I see you don't get the sarcasm.... Well it just so happens people can micro Mutas too. the point he's making is that marines can still fight banelings, mutas will however NEVER be able to fight marines unless they're extremely overpowering them in which case the risk is still that you lose 1-2 mutas. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
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Excludos
Norway7943 Posts
On January 23 2012 05:50 lindn wrote: the point he's making is that marines can still fight banelings, mutas will however NEVER be able to fight marines unless they're extremely overpowering them in which case the risk is still that you lose 1-2 mutas. Which would be true if it wasn't for the fact that mutalisks can choose their fight while marines more often than not, can't. If you make mutalisks in hope of being able to roll through the Terran's front, you obviously need to think through your gameplan a bit. | ||
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
On January 23 2012 05:50 lindn wrote: the point he's making is that marines can still fight banelings, mutas will however NEVER be able to fight marines unless they're extremely overpowering them in which case the risk is still that you lose 1-2 mutas. well with mutas you can: pick off tanks for free, kill an entire mineral line within 3 seconds, kill cc's, clean up the entire army of a terran after you suicided all you banes into his marines, kill drops, make them build turrets with marines you can: fight straight up, drop them ---- thats it sorry mutas that cost less would be soooooooo OP there is a reason why this thread is not called "are mutas underpowered in WOL?" | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On January 23 2012 06:12 Drowsy wrote: I think it would be badass if they gave phoenixes a splash damage upgrade at fleet beacon or cyber core, did away with this tempest nonsense, and added in a mid-tier gateway unit to round out protosses weak early game vs terran. How about a researched spell that causes corpse explosion =P Muta dies to Phoenix fire explodes and splashes other mutas =P | ||
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RinconH
United States512 Posts
On January 23 2012 06:12 Drowsy wrote: I think it would be badass if they gave phoenixes a splash damage upgrade at fleet beacon or cyber core, did away with this tempest nonsense, and added in a mid-tier gateway unit to round out protosses weak early game vs terran. Good idea. PHX are a cool unit and should just be improved so they are even more usable. Toss dont need more speciality units, they need 1 more "core" unit. | ||
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
Each unit is based on situational performance, the argument over the muta should be that it causes too many situations to go a certian way. That is all. | ||
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Warpath
Canada1242 Posts
It isn't wholly the mutalisks fault, its like the void rays. You manage to somehow let him get too many and its extremely difficult to fight. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On January 23 2012 06:36 RinconH wrote: Good idea. PHX are a cool unit and should just be improved so they are even more usable. Toss dont need more speciality units, they need 1 more "core" unit. Just curious do you consider Sentries specialists or core units? I mean they are specialists but you see them so often that u'd just consider them core anyways | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On January 23 2012 06:39 Lore-Fighting wrote: This thread is really disappointing, don't you guys know that there is no such thing as a counter? The Tempet is designed to help noobs not lose to a-move mass muta balls. If you flank them, I don't think they perform that well, also, they are fairly low dps. Each unit is based on situational performance, the argument over the muta should be that it causes too many situations to go a certian way. That is all. If you flank they can just fly away. It's not like Vikings/marines/thors can ever catch mutalisks. | ||
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Coopa826
Germany161 Posts
"if zerg masses Mutas protoss loses automatically because Mutas are op" i mean stalkers dont really do well against so many mutas. not even with blink. Blizzard suggested the phoenix as a counter .... and? if the zerg has 50 mutas, why dont protossplayers make 30 phoenixes? Its the same thing with the infestor. 20 high templar can easily kill infinte infestors. Broodlords too strong? make a f*ckton of vikings Thors too strong? Make a f*ckton of roaches XXX too strong? make a f*ckton of YYY People really should get away of that "derp derp is too op" mentality If there are some real issues like the "speed" infestors or the op blueflame hellions blizzard is going to do something about it. And if they make mistakes like the neural parasite change the community is going to tell them. | ||
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Zeroxk
Norway1244 Posts
On January 23 2012 06:47 Coopa826 wrote: I dont like it when people say things like "if zerg masses Mutas protoss loses automatically because Mutas are op" i mean stalkers dont really do well against so many mutas. not even with blink. Blizzard suggested the phoenix as a counter .... and? if the zerg has 50 mutas, why dont protossplayers make 30 phoenixes? Its the same thing with the infestor. 20 high templar can easily kill infinte infestors. Broodlords too strong? make a f*ckton of vikings Thors too strong? Make a f*ckton of roaches XXX too strong? make a f*ckton of YYY People really should get away of that "derp derp is too op" mentality If there are some real issues like the "speed" infestors or the op blueflame hellions blizzard is going to do something about it. And if they make mistakes like the neural parasite change the community is going to tell them. Mass phoenix loses to mass muta because of bounce...you also can't compete with the muta production. Storms and archons are the best solution | ||
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Hyperionnn
Turkey4968 Posts
On December 13 2011 14:05 Azzur wrote: Yep, I felt that Blizzard got the air-balance model wrong in BW. Single purpose air-units like valkyries and devourers should counter all air units (including BCs and Carriers). holy shit you are the dumbest person i have ever seen congrats edit:wow that post was posted like 40 days ago but still my point stands though User was warned for this post | ||
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Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
On January 23 2012 06:57 Zeroxk wrote: Mass phoenix loses to mass muta because of bounce...you also can't compete with the muta production. Storms and archons are the best solution well, you can compete with production. but you just cant do it while on fewer gasses. which makes sense. also the protoss pure air style is completely viable vs mass mutas. | ||
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Excludos
Norway7943 Posts
On January 23 2012 06:47 Coopa826 wrote: I dont like it when people say things like "if zerg masses Mutas protoss loses automatically because Mutas are op" i mean stalkers dont really do well against so many mutas. not even with blink. Blizzard suggested the phoenix as a counter .... and? if the zerg has 50 mutas, why dont protossplayers make 30 phoenixes? Its the same thing with the infestor. 20 high templar can easily kill infinte infestors. Broodlords too strong? make a f*ckton of vikings Thors too strong? Make a f*ckton of roaches XXX too strong? make a f*ckton of YYY People really should get away of that "derp derp is too op" mentality If there are some real issues like the "speed" infestors or the op blueflame hellions blizzard is going to do something about it. And if they make mistakes like the neural parasite change the community is going to tell them. Are you even playing the same game as the rest of us? If you don't know how things work, the best solution is always not to open your mouth. Phoenix production can't possibly cope with the amount of mutalisks zerg can make at once, its not like youc an just suddenly dish out 30 phoenixes. Not to mention mutalisks in large numbers are still better because of bounce, AND one fungal can catch all your phoenixes and instalose you the game. If you're playing this game and go "Oh, he's making mutalisks, I need to start mass producing phoenixes then!" you've already lost. You can't play this game above bronze lvl and just think unit x counter unit y. On January 23 2012 07:27 Let it Raine wrote: well, you can compete with production. but you just cant do it while on fewer gasses. which makes sense. also the protoss pure air style is completely viable vs mass mutas. Like I said above, one fungal and you've lost the game. It has happened in so many pro matches that no progamers dare go for it anymore. If its that risky, its not viable. (especially when you can just go blink stalkers, archons and storm and be a lot more safe, even against gound units) Cheese builds excluded (like ffe into 3 stargate allin). | ||
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