EPT[D]Are mutalisks overpowered in WOL?? - Page 7
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Bd.Snake
Australia163 Posts
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foxmeep
Australia2337 Posts
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Nothingtosay
United States875 Posts
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zeehar
Korea (South)3804 Posts
On October 25 2011 20:32 rockerman101 wrote: mutas are hard for toss to deal with when zerg do a fast switch and they are not prepared for it thats the whole point | ||
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QueueQueue
Canada1000 Posts
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4of8
Germany256 Posts
On October 25 2011 20:40 Turbo.Tactics wrote: Nah you dont have to leave 10 Stalkers... you can build some cannons and warpin when you need to. With the new "make a building to a cannon" tossers will have an additional reactionary spell to help fight the mutas and have even less monetary Commitment inbase. Yeah of course cannons will protect you from Mass Mutas^^ so lets say you build 3 Cannons around each of your Nexus +3 Cannons at your production buildings and lets assume you could warpin 8 Stalker. The Protoss army is out on his way to your base. In this scenario the Protoss player would be relatively safe against a possible basetrade. But guess what the Zerg player doesn't need to kill the base since the protoss player has clearly invested to much into defense and you can easily crush his main army. But again is this OP? No it isn't, but it is a boring game when massing of one specific unit forces the other race to do a specific strat. | ||
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shammythefox
United Kingdom286 Posts
As for protoss, Desparately need an effective way to deal with mutalisks and have done since beta, this much is pretty obvious imo | ||
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MuazizTremere
Netherlands67 Posts
In ZvT, muta's are used by Zerg as an extremely effective harassment tool to keep the terran in their base while the Zerg catches up in army size after whoring 70 drones for the better part of the first 10 minutes of the game. It's not *hard* to deal with muta's as Terran as turrets and marines are enough to chase them off, but you are *required* to deal with them, giving the zerg time to mass up ling/bling off of his now superior economy. After this, muta's are used to pick off drops (this won't change with a new counter) and to pick off tanks during pushes (this may get harder with a new counter). Now, let's get speculative here from a non-zerg biased PoV: Maybe, just maybe, the whole point of HotS and its new units is to move away from this "zerg must have twice your economy to compete" crap and move more towards an "equal econ is equal army" sort of game. Surely with faster hydras, the Swarm Host, charging Ultra and burrow moving blings, the Zerg army starts looking a LOT more cost effective than it does now, especially against terran. If mutas remain as good at harassing as they are now (which is likely) and terran doesn't get a counter that requires less attention and/or army supply to deal with it, Zerg can still get their vastly superior econ PLUS the HotS-improved cost effective army leading to a massive balance swing in Zerg's favor. In ZvP, muta's are simply retarded. Aside from the fact that Zerg *already* rolls over protoss left right and center without muta's, once you get to the point where you have like 12-14 muta's harassing the protoss bases there's basically nothing he can do except force a base trade. Base trades make for shitty games. | ||
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Otak
United Kingdom110 Posts
On October 25 2011 18:24 TFOG wrote: 3/3 Marines are pretty good and storms are actually quite effective with blink stalkers - 1:20 I'm not sure what blizzard is thinking, but hopefully they change their unit design goals. All that video does is prove what everyone's said - that all zerg players do is mass up a load of mutas and go for a base trade if the protoss moves out. It's utterly retarded. Literally have not seen one PvZ lately where the Z has gone mutas that hasn't ended in a base trade. | ||
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nimbus99
Canada194 Posts
not sure why they made terran easier to counter with warhound, i thought the thor/marine defense was fun and strategic. Thor is slow and can be boxed, while marines are fast and you NEVER wanna box them. For a zerg it was your job to dodge marines, and go all in on thors. If you happen to go all in, but i have more thors and marines by it in the fog of war, bubye mutas! | ||
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Beastyqt
Serbia516 Posts
On October 25 2011 18:27 Krehlmar wrote: Anyone who has a problem with Mutalisks is just not doing a great job or have tried enough. or you just havent played players that actually know to use them how they should be used. There is a reason counter was made to mutas in SC1, you shouldnt be able to die to a harass unit, imagine protoss massing phoenix or dts and killing you with them in mid to late game - mutas have same roll and that is harassing, not killing your opponent. | ||
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
On October 25 2011 20:03 Thrill wrote: Better nerf Irelia. Sadly the best post in this topic. | ||
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Turbo.Tactics
Germany675 Posts
On October 25 2011 21:10 4of8 wrote: Yeah of course cannons will protect you from Mass Mutas^^ so lets say you build 3 Cannons around each of your Nexus +3 Cannons at your production buildings and lets assume you could warpin 8 Stalker. The Protoss army is out on his way to your base. In this scenario the Protoss player would be relatively safe against a possible basetrade. But guess what the Zerg player doesn't need to kill the base since the protoss player has clearly invested to much into defense and you can easily crush his main army. But again is this OP? No it isn't, but it is a boring game when massing of one specific unit forces the other race to do a specific strat. You are taking the whole arguement out of context and nobody said anything about 6 cannons per base. And the cannons are not used to counter mutas but to make it so you can react to them in time. Mutas don't force tossers to do a specific strat either. I don't get what you are trying to say besides stating what nobody doubted and didn't know already. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 25 2011 18:29 Toadvine wrote: One thing I don't entirely like about Mutalisks in SC2 is how effective they are when massed. Balance aside, it just looks and feels weird. I know that Zerg use Mutas as a crutch in ZvT especially, but ideally I would prefer huge Muta clouds to be undesirable. On that note, I do understand why they would want to give Protoss a straight-up answer to huge Muta numbers, because nowadays the answer is simply "don't let it happen". None of the Protoss anti-Muta measures are especially good against like 30+ Mutas. However, their solution is really dumb. Protoss already have an "anti-Muta" air unit, so why not accomplish the same thing by buffing the Phoenix, for example by giving it an upgrade on the Fleet Beacon that enables an energy-based anti-light aoe attack? If there's one thing Protoss does not need, it's extremely expensive reactionary units. Besides, buffing Phoenix makes for better gameplay, as they're way more interesting than huge a-move wonders like the Tempest. I couldn't agree more. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
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TheOnlyOne
Germany155 Posts
Now we get a new unit that does pretty much the same and thats just fine. Blizzard is kinda strange , they did all that allready and just put it back in the game and sell it as "new". | ||
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Turbo.Tactics
Germany675 Posts
I agree that they should buff the Phoenix instead of adding the tempest and about the anti-Muta measures. But none of the anti-Muta measures is bad either. Any kind of Blinkstalker build with or without some cannons/sentrys/phoenix/Hts/archons is viable. I've even seen some nasty Zealot/sentry/archon builds that seem to cut the cookie as long as you keep the mutanumbers under control. In addition the huge Muta cloud is already undesirable. Archons and Hts are enough reason to not want the huuuuge muta flock. And their mobility gets less and less effective because you can react better with additional gateways. | ||
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Joseph123
Bulgaria1144 Posts
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