EPTPro Gamers and Carpal Tunnel
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Silky
United States260 Posts
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SeanShepard
United States48 Posts
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Boblhead
United States2577 Posts
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Silky
United States260 Posts
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HarryDresden
United States59 Posts
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Misanthrope
United States924 Posts
For some it is also a matter of luck, Idra said on SotG that he's been really lucky as far as RSI/CT goes and has never had any issues at all. My doctor told me recently when I brought up this subject that some people are just lucky with their physiology and are highly unlikely to ever develop any problems. Also, what are you lfg for? EDIT: guys do a quick search RSI, Carpal Tunnel, and posture. There are a few threads that have popped up the last year or two with instructions about proper stretches, warm-ups, and desk posture from health majors. | ||
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nameless55
United States68 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:12 Silky wrote: Anyone have a diagram of this "posture"? Your spine has natural curves in it. Sitting is not a natural position for the body to be in, so an 'ideal' sitting position is one that has the spine in a state similar to a person standing and straight and relaxed. Use the google, I'm sure you can easily find a plethora of information with little to no effort. | ||
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Silky
United States260 Posts
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Silky
United States260 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:18 Silky wrote: The reason I'm asking is i have a minor case of C and was wondering what I can do to improve my chances of when going back to playing, prevent it from coming up again. You can search up "ergonomic posture" on Google and get a ton of results. | ||
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theBOOCH
United States832 Posts
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Gixxasaurus
United States17 Posts
I played in Cal-Invite in CoD1 back in 2003-06 era. I played 80 hrs per week, basically nonstop 24/7 for two years. My right ring finger, and thumb from having a claw grip on the mouse (for precision aiming). I had to pick up MMO's (like Lineage, Aion, etc) because my passion for FPS made me not play very good with less finger strength to control the mouse super accurately and fast. Now just by taking a break for 1-2 years of light MMO gaming, I'm back. But I've always struggled with it. Cuz I played TF2 at a pretty high level and started getting that weird finger nerve thing last year. So thats why I play this now. Got a new mouse (steelseries xai) that I think helps. IMO, the lightest mouse possible is better, so that it requires less energy to move it (pick it up, reposition it, etc). I'm 27 yrs old. Two years ago playing TF2 my thumb was getting weak. So I quit playing as much (not 24/7); like 2 hours limit per day max. Then I notice my right thumb started occasionally twitching on its own very slightly. Kinda scary. I type super fast (120-130wpm....same as Destiny) on a filco brown. And have used keyboard since age 17 heavily. So 10 years. | ||
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LazyScout
United States223 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:16 Misanthrope wrote: SeanShepard is correct. Frequent rest periods and proper stretching are also necessary. Many progamers do actually suffer from RSI or carpal tunnel. Like you said, TLO is one, MVP is another. Recently FlaSh (BW god for the uninitiated), had to have sections of muscle removed from his right arm, as they were overdeveloped and putting too much pressure on the nerve. For some it is also a matter of luck, Idra said on SotG that he's been really lucky as far as RSI/CT goes and has never had any issues at all. My doctor told me recently when I brought up this subject that some people are just lucky with their physiology and are highly unlikely to ever develop any problems. Also, what are you lfg for? EDIT: guys do a quick search RSI, Carpal Tunnel, and posture. There are a few threads that have popped up the last year or two with instructions about proper stretches, warm-ups, and desk posture from health majors. Idra is the player I always notice whose hands look so smooth and relaxed when he plays. He doesn't hold the mouse the mouse too tightly and presses the keys lightly and efficiently, so maybe this has something to do with it. I don't really think some people are just lucky. | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:16 nameless55 wrote: Well I've sort of heard that a bit, but I've also heard another thing.Your spine has natural curves in it. Sitting is not a natural position for the body to be in, so an 'ideal' sitting position is one that has the spine in a state similar to a person standing and straight and relaxed. Use the google, I'm sure you can easily find a plethora of information with little to no effort. What you're talking about makes sense to use a kneeling chair, which is what I use (although it's not a very good one). I've heard a fair bit that a chair where a person is sitting at 135° or so (as opposed to 90%) is an optimal ergonomic position. I would think it would be hard to get the screen aligned well with that position though. With regards to the OP, a bit of it is genetics, a bit would be diet, and a lot of it is just proper excercising/breaks and of course proper posture. I hear women have a 3x higher risk of CTS than men. | ||
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Apus
New Zealand74 Posts
Seems someone was nice enough to Youtube it as well: Here. | ||
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lastshadow
United States1372 Posts
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
I'm a doctor dealing with worker's compensation patients and a lot of people do try to make claims that typing has caused this, but you really have to be typing in a completely fucked up way to cause the kind of damage required to become afflicted with CTS. To be honest, riding motorcycles for long periods of time or performing construction work (like with jackhammers and similar things) is alot more likely to cause CTS than gaming or even being a stenographer for a courtroom. Having said all that, some starcraft players are at a higher risk to develop CTS based on two major factors 1) unnatural movements. Some players will stretch out their hand way further to reach certain keys when they could realistically find a more convenient way to do things. 2) Diet. Having a poor diet for all intents and purposes weakens the tissue surrounding the carpal tunnel space putting you at much higher risk to be impacted by the pinching I described above. At the end of the day, just know that 90% of the time when people say they have carpal tunnel syndrome... they don't. It is easily the most incorrectly diagnosed affliction out there... not counting psychological afflictions. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:28 Gixxasaurus wrote: I have RSI, or carpal tunnel. But it has gone. I played in Cal-Invite in CoD1 back in 2003-06 era. I played 80 hrs per week, basically nonstop 24/7 for two years. My right ring finger, and thumb from having a claw grip on the mouse (for precision aiming). I had to pick up MMO's (like Lineage, Aion, etc) because my passion for FPS made me not play very good with less finger strength to control the mouse super accurately and fast. Now just by taking a break for 1-2 years of light MMO gaming, I'm back. But I've always struggled with it. Cuz I played TF2 at a pretty high level and started getting that weird finger nerve thing last year. So thats why I play this now. Got a new mouse (steelseries xai) that I think helps. IMO, the lightest mouse possible is better, so that it requires less energy to move it (pick it up, reposition it, etc). I'm 27 yrs old. Two years ago playing TF2 my thumb was getting weak. So I quit playing as much (not 24/7); like 2 hours limit per day max. Then I notice my right thumb started occasionally twitching on its own very slightly. Kinda scary. I type super fast (120-130wpm....same as Destiny) on a filco brown. And have used keyboard since age 17 heavily. So 10 years. Have you ever broken your hand before? If not, have you had your iron levels tested by your doctor? If its your thumb it is more likely that you are suffering from a recurrent pinched nerve | ||
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Meteora.GB
Canada2479 Posts
Some people just have either good posturing or take breaks during their practice session. Contrary to what people may think, progamers do not practice for 8 hours straight, balls to the walls without any breaks. Their session includes watching replays and observing/learning from other players as they play in team houses. On October 24 2011 14:45 Jayrod wrote: One of the biggest misconceptions in western medicine is this notion that carpal tunnel is actually caused by repetitive stress. It's a theory that, to be honest, does not have much of a medical basis at all. Truthfully, the most common cause for carpal tunnel is when a specific event like, a pressure fracture or stress fracture crowds or pinches the median nerve within the carpal tunnel. Surgically, you would have what is called a carpal tunnel release procedure, which basically just removes that pressure or crowding. After healing, it's not uncommon that it becomes crowded again in the future... this is where you hear about those unfortunate people who have their CT symptoms constantly returning. I'm a doctor dealing with worker's compensation patients and a lot of people do try to make claims that typing has caused this, but you really have to be typing in a completely fucked up way to cause the kind of damage required to become afflicted with CTS. To be honest, riding motorcycles for long periods of time or performing construction work (like with jackhammers and similar things) is alot more likely to cause CTS than gaming or even being a stenographer for a courtroom. Having said all that, some starcraft players are at a higher risk to develop CTS based on two major factors 1) unnatural movements. Some players will stretch out their hand way further to reach certain keys when they could realistically find a more convenient way to do things. 2) Diet. Having a poor diet for all intents and purposes weakens the tissue surrounding the carpal tunnel space putting you at much higher risk to be impacted by the pinching I described above. At the end of the day, just know that 90% of the time when people say they have carpal tunnel syndrome... they don't. It is easily the most incorrectly diagnosed affliction out there... not counting psychological afflictions. Interesting. I keep reading that RSI can naturally develop into CST if left unchecked, I didn't know that it was merely just a theory without any solid basis (or so I would presume). Thanks for the insight. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:38 lastshadow wrote: A LOT of players get it, they just don't complain about it, and/or it goes unnoticed by the community if they ever do talk about it. It's not something negligible, though. MVP had trouble setting up his computer a while ago(forget if it was for GSL or MLG >_>) because of how bad the pain was, and I don't think it's gotten any better. MMA's another person with wrist issues, but I forget if it was from a martial arts accident or from playing. I know he said during his GSL mini-doc that one of his hands become paralyzed if he plays for too long. | ||
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nameless55
United States68 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:37 Xapti wrote: Well I've sort of heard that a bit, but I've also heard another thing. What you're talking about makes sense to use a kneeling chair, which is what I use (although it's not a very good one). I've heard a fair bit that a chair where a person is sitting at 135° or so (as opposed to 90%) is an optimal ergonomic position. I would think it would be hard to get the screen aligned well with that position though. With regards to the OP, a bit of it is genetics, a bit would be diet, and a lot of it is just proper excercising/breaks and of course proper posture. I hear women have a 3x higher risk of CTS than men. Are you suggesting that it is better to lean back in your chair? I've never read/heard that before, everything I have been taught has been to sit up straight and comfortably.. not exaggerating your posture but also not slumping like a large portion of us (myself included) do very frequently... I'm sure this discussion could go on and on, but I'll try to say about the wrist issues.. Check your wrist angle.. hold up your hand in front of your face (now let someone push it.. jk)... for a lot of us, while playing games our tendencies in our wrists are to angle them so the thumb is lined up with the forearm.. or at least leaning towards this spectrum. Being aware of it will instantly help.. you can't fix it if you don't know it's happening. Most importantly though if it hurts, stop. Use common sense. Shake your hands out after games to give some movement and blood flow so they don't get stuck in the same position for hours and hours. Crunching numbers and statistics on all of these hand problems are fine. Personally, I find using common sense to be a very successful prevention method. If something hurts, I stop. If it continues to hurt, I change what I'm doing. If I don't know what to do, I ask someone (which I suppose is this thread). If nothing works, go see a doctor. Seriously though, you should not be having wrist issues unless you are constantly putting yourself under unneeded stress. There are always ways to perform comfortably. Any athletes, musicians, etc that post in this thread I'm sure can back me up on this. I myself am a musician. Does that make me more qualified to tell you what to do? NO. But, I do deal with these things through my constant, repetitive, unnatural motions, which is exactly what using a computer is as well. | ||
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LazyScout
United States223 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:54 Daralii wrote: It's not something negligible, though. MVP had trouble setting up his computer a while ago(forget if it was for GSL or MLG >_>) because of how bad the pain was, and I don't think it's gotten any better. MMA's another person with wrist issues, but I forget if it was from a martial arts accident or from playing. I know he said during his GSL mini-doc that one of his hands become paralyzed if he plays for too long. I was scared watching MVP high five that massive line of people at blizzcon. | ||
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Meteora.GB
Canada2479 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:54 Daralii wrote: It's not something negligible, though. MVP had trouble setting up his computer a while ago(forget if it was for GSL or MLG >_>) because of how bad the pain was, and I don't think it's gotten any better. MMA's another person with wrist issues, but I forget if it was from a martial arts accident or from playing. I know he said during his GSL mini-doc that one of his hands become paralyzed if he plays for too long. Actually its not his wrist. He injured his pinky I think? I would presume that its his right hand's pinky. Would kind of suck playing with a injured pinky with your left hand. | ||
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Kashll
United States1117 Posts
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Champi
1422 Posts
But i deffinitely would advise keeping in mind to be taking care of yourself and not neglecting your wrists and just 'assuming' you're one of the lucky few who are less likely to get it | ||
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hobosrus
United States99 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:16 Misanthrope wrote: SeanShepard is correct. Frequent rest periods and proper stretching are also necessary. Many progamers do actually suffer from RSI or carpal tunnel. Like you said, TLO is one, MVP is another. Recently FlaSh (BW god for the uninitiated), had to have sections of muscle removed from his right arm, as they were overdeveloped and putting too much pressure on the nerve. For some it is also a matter of luck, Idra said on SotG that he's been really lucky as far as RSI/CT goes and has never had any issues at all. My doctor told me recently when I brought up this subject that some people are just lucky with their physiology and are highly unlikely to ever develop any problems. Also, what are you lfg for? EDIT: guys do a quick search RSI, Carpal Tunnel, and posture. There are a few threads that have popped up the last year or two with instructions about proper stretches, warm-ups, and desk posture from health majors. wait a minute... flash got carpal tunnel cause his sc muscles were too strong? That is so awesome yet sad at thesame time | ||
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NyKaL
Italy54 Posts
Unfortunately, once the symptoms appear, there is not a medical therapy yet which is not rest of the said hand, ergonomics or anti inflammatory drugs. When symptoms become invalidating, there's a surgical solution though. The primary objective remains prevention with ergonomics, stretching and rest in long sessions. Btw I think many pro gamers have carpal syndrome or ulnar syndrome, they just don't show it, because at their level of practice, even having little predisposition to it, hand stress becomes massive. | ||
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Remb
United States190 Posts
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babylon
8765 Posts
On October 24 2011 16:53 Remb wrote: MVP himself says he does poorly in practice because it is so painful. During GSL interview he said something along the lines of how the pressure and crowd motivates him to ignore the pain. If you have enough adrenaline pumping through your system -- as you surely do during LAN events -- I imagine you can ignore a lot of the discomfort and pain. It's really the practice that's affected more, though, I think. | ||
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El_Deuz
Mexico71 Posts
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MattO1337
United States203 Posts
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Silky
United States260 Posts
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Gunz24
United States19 Posts
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Silky
United States260 Posts
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pbjsandwich
United States443 Posts
that makes it so it doesn't restric blood from going to your wrists and it actually acts like a really good pivot so you can move quicker over the keyboard also tilt the left side of your keyboard up when playing starcraft. It is more natural fro your hand | ||
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Misanthrope
United States924 Posts
On October 24 2011 17:11 MattO1337 wrote: I have pretty bad CT, I used to be a Quake player and when I was at the top of the my game I was practicing 8+ hours a day (huge deal for an american fps). A few years back I bought a glove from Steelseries, and whenever I wear it while gaming for a long period of time, nothing ever hurts. What's the name of the glove? | ||
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KDot2
United States1213 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:37 Apus wrote: Day9 spoke about some stretches you can do to help reduce the chances of picking up an RSI injury on daily #252 (fantastic daily for other things too). Seems someone was nice enough to Youtube it as well: Here. a really REALLY awesome daily ^^^^ probably the best besides the day 9 biography ... I use his advice on posture,hand position,and stretching all the time. Also talks about mechanics mouse precision etc. | ||
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pbjsandwich
United States443 Posts
On October 25 2011 09:05 ToguRo wrote: a really REALLY awesome daily ^^^^ probably the best besides the day 9 biography ... I use his advice on posture,hand position,and stretching all the time. Also talks about mechanics mouse precision etc. that podcast legit helped me move around the keyboard a lot faster really useful | ||
Insane
United States4991 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:28 Gixxasaurus wrote: I have RSI, or carpal tunnel. But it has gone. I played in Cal-Invite in CoD1 back in 2003-06 era. I played 80 hrs per week, basically nonstop 24/7 for two years. My right ring finger, and thumb from having a claw grip on the mouse (for precision aiming). I had to pick up MMO's (like Lineage, Aion, etc) because my passion for FPS made me not play very good with less finger strength to control the mouse super accurately and fast. Now just by taking a break for 1-2 years of light MMO gaming, I'm back. But I've always struggled with it. Cuz I played TF2 at a pretty high level and started getting that weird finger nerve thing last year. So thats why I play this now. Got a new mouse (steelseries xai) that I think helps. IMO, the lightest mouse possible is better, so that it requires less energy to move it (pick it up, reposition it, etc). I'm 27 yrs old. Two years ago playing TF2 my thumb was getting weak. So I quit playing as much (not 24/7); like 2 hours limit per day max. Then I notice my right thumb started occasionally twitching on its own very slightly. Kinda scary. I type super fast (120-130wpm....same as Destiny) on a filco brown. And have used keyboard since age 17 heavily. So 10 years. CoD1 fighting! What cal-i team were you back then? | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10306 Posts
and yes working out helps with the endurance and strength and such xD | ||
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empty.bottle
685 Posts
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eXigent.
Canada2419 Posts
On October 25 2011 09:43 empty.bottle wrote: is carpal tunnel more common on the "keyboard hand" or on the mouse one? If you read the respond from Jayrod in this thread, you will see that he states Carpel Tunnel doesn not happen from overuse of the computer. What you are refering to is most likely a RSI injury. Dunno why soo many people are still stating this after he posted clearing up misconceptions. | ||
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Conquerer67
United States605 Posts
Helped me out, can't believe it hasn't been mentioned. | ||
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Silky
United States260 Posts
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Silky
United States260 Posts
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