On October 23 2011 06:04 submit wrote: I believe that most of the terran players don't actually realize how great of a difference that will be for us. Now we have the ability to go mech in almost every match-up. Let me try to explaing...
TvZ: Hellions still can be used to great harass and yet, be a decent protection against most of roaches all-ins that are becoming so popular in the early TvZ. Alongside with the Shroders we can secure counter-attack paths and easily control muta harass with the new Warhound, that I must say... is AMAZING against roaches and mutas. In general, all terrans are going to learn is how to transition into mech and greatly use raven in TvZ, cause the Dark Sworm can destroy mech units. (moving banelings won't be much of a problem for mech players)
TvP: Warhound and Hellion on the mid/late game are going to obliterate the regular gateway/robo tech. That's exactly why Blizz is start to focus on the startgate tech to protoss, and I believe a major change will occur on the toss play. But if they don't change to a more harass/flying game style, Mech will do great against toss.
TvT: This is where most of the changes will happen. It's almost impossible to imagine what will happen to the matchup, cause a simple modification can change all game play... but I belive that Mech will be AWESOME! cause, now.. helions can be the buffer unit needed to protect siege-tanks while they attack the MMM ball. And drop play will be greatly diminuish due to the warhound air defence control.
With the way you put it, do you think mech will just replace bio?
On October 23 2011 05:57 RifleCow wrote: If an oracle shuts down a spore crawler, does the spore crawler still have detection?
It disables all abilities of the target so I'd presume yes. Oracle + DT rush vs Z sounds viable.
Oracle opens up a ton of harassment potential for the Protoss race. Oracle/DT will be annoying, but also Oracle shutting down half the minerals then using HT to storm the clumped up workers. Would make for some sick plays in the future.
On October 23 2011 05:58 phathom321 wrote: I can totally see PvP turning into Replicator wars, and whoever gets the first tech unit and sacrifices a replicator loses >.>
Aren't the replicators rather expensive themselves though? Either way, while I think it is the best unit added to Toss, I still don't really like the unit from a design PoV.
yes, the replicator is set at a cost so that it is 'cost inefficient' to use mass replicators. 1 or 2 will be great. Its not too bad of a design pov. In bw mind control was never really good, this is a different way to try and make it work this time around. Also terran/zerg will realize if they do any cheesy/harras build, you can do it right back to them. Like a 1 base dual starport banshee build, now you can turn around and banshee them back. Late game it will probably become a 'steal their caster' unit, but it will definitely make for some unique strategies and late game unit comps.
Most people keep mentioning how to use it to replicate your opponents. What people dont realize, is you can use this for your own units as well. 2 base HT will be viable. You can drop the archives, then build to replicators and they can replicate into HT with max energy and storm already done (even if you haven't researched storm). Fucking Sweet.
Wow those burrowed banelings are fast. I think this is an ok ability to have as long as they nerf the burrowed move speed and this is only available with hive tech.
hah, holy christ, that IS fast baneling burrow movement.. I was thinking more like the roach burrow movement.. guess the banelings ARE a little smaller.
Just give me my Banelings w/ Tunneling claws, I'm gonna wreck kids with that.
Question:
Does this mean Zerg doesn't have detection until an Infestation Pit? Because waiting until lair was already painful. This seems pretty messed up and I don't think this is gonna stick, because if it does, how the hell are we going to have detection if we want to make a timing push? We're expected to have a Viper and spend 200 gas?
On October 23 2011 06:04 submit wrote: I believe that most of the terran players don't actually realize how great of a difference that will be for us. Now we have the ability to go mech in almost every match-up. Let me try to explaing...
TvZ: Hellions still can be used to great harass and yet, be a decent protection against most of roaches all-ins that are becoming so popular in the early TvZ. Alongside with the Shroders we can secure counter-attack paths and easily control muta harass with the new Warhound, that I must say... is AMAZING against roaches and mutas. In general, all terrans are going to learn is how to transition into mech and greatly use raven in TvZ, cause the Dark Sworm can destroy mech units. (moving banelings won't be much of a problem for mech players)
TvP: Warhound and Hellion on the mid/late game are going to obliterate the regular gateway/robo tech. That's exactly why Blizz is start to focus on the startgate tech to protoss, and I believe a major change will occur on the toss play. But if they don't change to a more harass/flying game style, Mech will do great against toss.
TvT: This is where most of the changes will happen. It's almost impossible to imagine what will happen to the matchup, cause a simple modification can change all game play... but I belive that Mech will be AWESOME! cause, now.. helions can be the buffer unit needed to protect siege-tanks while they attack the MMM ball. And drop play will be greatly diminuish due to the warhound air defence control.
When it comes to TvT, it seems like the new additions will shut down both bio AND heavy tank play with everyone betting the hellions and hounds.
I would disagree with you on TvP just looking at the Terran changes, because the mobility and harassing of bio play is so strong. But with the new Nexus abilities, the constant drop will be a lot weaker, Terran may have to go mech.
All theory crafting, I know, I just hope it all works out for the best.
On October 23 2011 06:11 Keyz1 wrote: Does this mean Zerg doesn't have detection until an Infestation Pit? Because waiting until lair was already painful. This seems pretty messed up and I don't think this is gonna stick, because if it does, how the hell are we going to have detection if we want to make a timing push? We're expected to have a Viper and spend 200 gas?
It just doesn't add up.
Viper is lair. Here's what you need to do:
1. Morph a hatchery to a lair. 2. Build a viper.
No infestation pit.
Edit: and ho foo those burrowed banelings move fast. No, that won't make it a week in beta..
On October 23 2011 05:58 phathom321 wrote: I can totally see PvP turning into Replicator wars, and whoever gets the first tech unit and sacrifices a replicator loses >.>
Aren't the replicators rather expensive themselves though? Either way, while I think it is the best unit added to Toss, I still don't really like the unit from a design PoV.
Sorry, I posted then then remembered that they can't copy massive units (Colossus is what I was thinking more of lol).
lol.. that burrowed movement speed is insane. I thought they added burrow to help reposition baneling landmines and make that aspect of the baneling more effective.
All the new zerg stuff is making me lol, the burrow charge ability for the ultralisk, the fast burrowed baneling movement, and the little flyer guy pulling a huge colossus up to it.
It seems like the warhound will be too good of an all-purpose mass-able unit in vT and vP... the mech marauder so to speak. Also, like someone said before, the art looks almost exactly like the Titan robot in C&C Tiberian Sun (http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Category:GDI_Titan_images) and coincidentally serves a similar role.
On October 23 2011 06:11 Keyz1 wrote: Does this mean Zerg doesn't have detection until an Infestation Pit? Because waiting until lair was already painful. This seems pretty messed up and I don't think this is gonna stick, because if it does, how the hell are we going to have detection if we want to make a timing push? We're expected to have a Viper and spend 200 gas?
It just doesn't add up.
Viper is lair. Here's what you need to do:
1. Morph a hatchery to a lair. 2. Build a viper.
No infestation pit.
Edit: and ho foo those burrowed banelings move fast. No, that won't make it a week in beta..
Ah, must of mixed it up with the Swarm Host.
So from Lair > 50min/50 gas overseer, -> Lair, 100min/200 gas Viper, then cast the detection spell on a unit I have.
I'm just thinking about this, if I'm using a normal unit like a zergling or a roach as the detector, it can die faster than overseer hovering in the back I assume. All other units are T2, so like........I'm hoping Vipers can cast it on themselves? Because I don't see myself casting it on any other unit, maybe an overlord (but then I'd need to invest in a speed upgrade before moving out for another 100 gas).
Yeah I can't think of which unit I would cast the detection spell on that's reliable. You can only use the spell once sooooooooo, unless you can't selfcast it on the Viper, it's pretty fucked up.
Great question, my guess is Detection might still stand but attacks are ceased. Look at the Disruption Web from BW, was detection shut down? I don't remember.
On October 23 2011 06:20 Keyz1 wrote: Yeah I can't think of which unit I would cast the detection spell on that's reliable. You can only use the spell once sooooooooo, unless you can't selfcast it on the Viper, it's pretty fucked up.
How about a queen, for starters? Them ladies are meaty.
Edit: or a speed-enabled overlord? High vision is nice.
On October 23 2011 06:20 NCH Insomnia wrote: Great question, my guess is Detection might still stand but attacks are ceased. Look at the Disruption Web from BW, was detection shut down? I don't remember.
Well, the only other viable option I see is that they make overlords detectors again. There's no way I'll be forced to get a lair, spend 200 gas and then another 100 gas, just to stick it on one of my overlords. That's WORSE than Overseers.
On October 23 2011 06:20 Keyz1 wrote: Yeah I can't think of which unit I would cast the detection spell on that's reliable. You can only use the spell once sooooooooo, unless you can't selfcast it on the Viper, it's pretty fucked up.
How about a queen, for starters? Them ladies are meaty.
Edit: or a speed-enabled overlord? High vision is nice.
Yeah I'll stick it on a Queen that moves slower than my grandmother off creep. She'll just wave in the back and let us know she'll be right there.
EPT
