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On October 22 2011 23:08 Brotocol wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:08 Maxie wrote:On October 22 2011 23:00 Fig wrote:
What is most baffling to me is that Blizzard says that late game chargelots can be dealt with by mmm micro, but they wanted to give terrans another option (the battle hellion). If you are giving the most versatile race more options, you best be working twice as hard on the other races.
One word: Mech. Why should mech not be viable in TvP? Perhaps bio doesn't need more ways to deal with mass chargelot, but mech does. Or I can say... "Gateway units should be viable against mech." Where did this idea come from that 100% of Terran strategies must be viable against everything? Why should mech be viable?
Because how fun is it to play a match up when you are forced to go for an army compositon every game so you don't lose? The option of going bio or mech with Terran is a bit of Terran's charm. And this is not only about mech, this is to every other match up in the game where you are forced to go for one typical unit composition for just flat out die.
It's nothing fun in that.
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On October 22 2011 23:13 NeonGenesis wrote:
Insanely bummed that they are removing the carrier. They haven't even made an attempt at making it viable in WoL.
To be fair it was kind of redundant with void rays being around.
I honestly would have liked to see them replace the void ray instead. Been saying this since the beta, but the charge-up mechanic is really silly -- so silly that they had to reduce it to just two stages.
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On October 22 2011 23:14 Maxie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:08 Brotocol wrote:On October 22 2011 23:08 Maxie wrote:On October 22 2011 23:00 Fig wrote:
What is most baffling to me is that Blizzard says that late game chargelots can be dealt with by mmm micro, but they wanted to give terrans another option (the battle hellion). If you are giving the most versatile race more options, you best be working twice as hard on the other races.
One word: Mech. Why should mech not be viable in TvP? Perhaps bio doesn't need more ways to deal with mass chargelot, but mech does. Or I can say... "Gateway units should be viable against mech." Where did this idea come from that 100% of Terran strategies must be viable against everything? Why should mech be viable? Because every protoss and terran in the world is tired of playing/facing bio every TvP/PvT game? All the other matchups allow you to go for at least 2 out of the following three: mech, biomech and pure bio. I'd enjoy playing/watching something else in TvP.
Perhaps Protoss could use some more options for dealing with MM then? Wouldn't you say T already has the most options?
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What I'm getting from all of this is that Blizzard hates Protoss.
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On October 22 2011 23:08 Brotocol wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:08 Maxie wrote:On October 22 2011 23:00 Fig wrote:
What is most baffling to me is that Blizzard says that late game chargelots can be dealt with by mmm micro, but they wanted to give terrans another option (the battle hellion). If you are giving the most versatile race more options, you best be working twice as hard on the other races.
One word: Mech. Why should mech not be viable in TvP? Perhaps bio doesn't need more ways to deal with mass chargelot, but mech does. Or I can say... "Gateway units should be viable against mech." Where did this idea come from that 100% of Terran strategies must be viable against everything? Why should mech be viable?
Protoss allways uses Gateways Units in every unit combination especially in TvP .... they are the bulk of the army . Mech or Bio or maybe even Air ( probably not though ) is more like am i going Robo , Templar or maybe even Air units. You can't compare this Terran and Protoss directly.
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On October 22 2011 23:16 Brotocol wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:14 Maxie wrote:On October 22 2011 23:08 Brotocol wrote:On October 22 2011 23:08 Maxie wrote:On October 22 2011 23:00 Fig wrote:
What is most baffling to me is that Blizzard says that late game chargelots can be dealt with by mmm micro, but they wanted to give terrans another option (the battle hellion). If you are giving the most versatile race more options, you best be working twice as hard on the other races.
One word: Mech. Why should mech not be viable in TvP? Perhaps bio doesn't need more ways to deal with mass chargelot, but mech does. Or I can say... "Gateway units should be viable against mech." Where did this idea come from that 100% of Terran strategies must be viable against everything? Why should mech be viable? Because every protoss and terran in the world is tired of playing/facing bio every TvP/PvT game? All the other matchups allow you to go for at least 2 out of the following three: mech, biomech and pure bio. I'd enjoy playing/watching something else in TvP. Perhaps Protoss could use some more options for dealing with MM then? Wouldn't you say T already has the most options?
In TvP they don't they have the probably the least options at least in later stages . Lategame will allways be MMM/Ghost/Vikings the rest just sucks in lategame.
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On October 22 2011 23:13 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:12 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On October 22 2011 23:05 dump wrote:On October 22 2011 23:01 Senx wrote:
And yeah I really hope the replicator gets scrapped, its going to be either completely useless because it gets nerfed into the ground or it'll be broken as fuck and make the game completely imbalanced.
No way to really balance such a unit. It's going to end up making 1v1 feel a lot like 2v2. Which is why it'll be fucking awesome. CAN YOU SEE HUK REPLICATING DRONE TO EXPAND AND THEN OWNING WITH FF INTO INFESTOR/COLOSSUS/ZEALOT??? *takes some tissue* I read on here somewhere, replicate a viper then pull in more vipers and replicate even more of them. Zealots + dark swarm = gg :O
And HuK has the micro to make it happen.
vsT he'd replicate medivacs to heal his Zealots... Medivac/chargelots yes please!!!!
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Italy12248 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:16 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:08 Brotocol wrote:On October 22 2011 23:08 Maxie wrote:On October 22 2011 23:00 Fig wrote:
What is most baffling to me is that Blizzard says that late game chargelots can be dealt with by mmm micro, but they wanted to give terrans another option (the battle hellion). If you are giving the most versatile race more options, you best be working twice as hard on the other races.
One word: Mech. Why should mech not be viable in TvP? Perhaps bio doesn't need more ways to deal with mass chargelot, but mech does. Or I can say... "Gateway units should be viable against mech." Where did this idea come from that 100% of Terran strategies must be viable against everything? Why should mech be viable? Protoss allways uses Gateways Units in every unit combination especially in TvP .... they are the bulk of the army . Mech or Bio or maybe even Air ( probably not though ) is more like am i going Robo , Templar or maybe even Air units. You can't compare this Terran and Protoss directly.
Protoss essentially has two builds in tvp: templar first or colossus first. Period. Of course there's variations, but it's not as big as mech vs bio, where the actual playstyle is completely different. As mech you have this slow, immobile army that is really strong, but easy to outmanouver; the opposite is true (should be true) for bio.
Protoss on the other hand only can choose what aoe to use to have a fighting chance vs whatever our opponent is doing.
Besides, look at BW. Terran in TvP has one choice: mech. But still, it's a great matchup.
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On October 22 2011 23:01 Senx wrote:
And yeah I really hope the replicator gets scrapped, its going to be either completely useless because it gets nerfed into the ground or it'll be broken as fuck and make the game completely imbalanced.
No way to really balance such a unit.
I doubt it's gonna be imba for that price, but it's very cool and opens a lot of options. Imagine PvZ, zerg is attacking with big pack of lings/banelings, you make a single baneling and kill a TON of lings. Or make infestor and fungal zerg's lings/blings if he has them. Or change into viper and drop disruption web on hydras/roaches. Nothing gamebreaking but at the same time very cool 
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On October 22 2011 23:01 Senx wrote:
And yeah I really hope the replicator gets scrapped, its going to be either completely useless because it gets nerfed into the ground or it'll be broken as fuck and make the game completely imbalanced.
No way to really balance such a unit.
Good news is, if you look at the Blizzcon video preview of the replicant, Blizzard stated 'we're having slight difficulties in really engaging the strength of this unit' so hopefully we can take it as 'we are battling to find a place for this unit/balance it to fairness, so we will soon give up and actually give toss something decent'
I really hope they do, such a ridiculous concept, and it looks terrible too...Protoss already have too many orb/sphere looking things; sentry, oracle and now this... Give us something cool looking that is actually decent to use...
I do love how much emphasis they placed on every unit being 'anti-deathball'...seems their 1st priority with adding a new unit was whether or not it can be used in a death ball. I can see where they are coming from, doesn't mean they need to give us a bunch of highly situational gimmicks.
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On October 22 2011 23:17 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:13 ZeromuS wrote:On October 22 2011 23:12 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On October 22 2011 23:05 dump wrote:On October 22 2011 23:01 Senx wrote:
And yeah I really hope the replicator gets scrapped, its going to be either completely useless because it gets nerfed into the ground or it'll be broken as fuck and make the game completely imbalanced.
No way to really balance such a unit. It's going to end up making 1v1 feel a lot like 2v2. Which is why it'll be fucking awesome. CAN YOU SEE HUK REPLICATING DRONE TO EXPAND AND THEN OWNING WITH FF INTO INFESTOR/COLOSSUS/ZEALOT??? *takes some tissue* I read on here somewhere, replicate a viper then pull in more vipers and replicate even more of them. Zealots + dark swarm = gg :O And HuK has the micro to make it happen. vsT he'd replicate medivacs to heal his Zealots... Medivac/chargelots yes please!!!!
No one is going to have the time to practice and master all the various scenarios that can arise from the replicant. It's impossible to balance and impossible to learn.
Sure you might see pros do some whacky things with it every now and then, but for everyone else it's going to be nothing but a ridiculous nightmare.
There'll also never be any meaningful discussions on protoss strategy or balance, because it's every damn discussion is going to end up with one person saying "just use replicants to replicate _____" and another person saying "it's too expensive".
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On October 22 2011 23:15 Brotocol wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:12 dump wrote:On October 22 2011 23:08 Brotocol wrote:On October 22 2011 23:08 Maxie wrote:On October 22 2011 23:00 Fig wrote:
What is most baffling to me is that Blizzard says that late game chargelots can be dealt with by mmm micro, but they wanted to give terrans another option (the battle hellion). If you are giving the most versatile race more options, you best be working twice as hard on the other races.
One word: Mech. Why should mech not be viable in TvP? Perhaps bio doesn't need more ways to deal with mass chargelot, but mech does. Or I can say... "Gateway units should be viable against mech." Where did this idea come from that 100% of Terran strategies must be viable against everything? Why should mech be viable? You have a link to the quote in your sig? + Show Spoiler +First few seconds. Edit - fixed quote to include deathball portion.
that's some nice video editing there...he actually said other people (as in the people here on TL *hint hint elbow*) say that (notice how the beginning of the phrase is cut out?)
but whatevs keep it if you like
edit: so here's the "full" video if you want to see, he said "so a lot of people might argue that..."
+ Show Spoiler +
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On October 22 2011 23:19 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:16 s3rp wrote:On October 22 2011 23:08 Brotocol wrote:On October 22 2011 23:08 Maxie wrote:On October 22 2011 23:00 Fig wrote:
What is most baffling to me is that Blizzard says that late game chargelots can be dealt with by mmm micro, but they wanted to give terrans another option (the battle hellion). If you are giving the most versatile race more options, you best be working twice as hard on the other races.
One word: Mech. Why should mech not be viable in TvP? Perhaps bio doesn't need more ways to deal with mass chargelot, but mech does. Or I can say... "Gateway units should be viable against mech." Where did this idea come from that 100% of Terran strategies must be viable against everything? Why should mech be viable? Protoss allways uses Gateways Units in every unit combination especially in TvP .... they are the bulk of the army . Mech or Bio or maybe even Air ( probably not though ) is more like am i going Robo , Templar or maybe even Air units. You can't compare this Terran and Protoss directly. Protoss essentially has two builds in tvp: templar first or colossus first. Period. Of course there's variations, but it's not as big as mech vs bio, where the actual playstyle is completely different. As mech you have this slow, immobile army that is really strong, but easy to outmanouver; the opposite is true (should be true) for bio. Protoss on the other hand only can choose what aoe to use to have a fighting chance vs whatever our opponent is doing. Besides, look at BW. Terran in TvP has one choice: mech. But still, it's a great matchup.
Shouldn't Zealot/Archon be counted as a third option? Because while you use HT to get them, you're not going high templar, you're going Zealot/Archon.
Edit: and two builds are still more than one.
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On October 22 2011 23:19 Ryder. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:01 Senx wrote:
And yeah I really hope the replicator gets scrapped, its going to be either completely useless because it gets nerfed into the ground or it'll be broken as fuck and make the game completely imbalanced.
No way to really balance such a unit. Good news is, if you look at the Blizzcon video preview of the replicant, Blizzard stated 'we're having slight difficulties in really engaging the strength of this unit' so hopefully we can take it as 'we are battling to find a place for this unit/balance it to fairness, so we will soon give up and actually give toss something decent' I really hope they do, such a ridiculous concept, and it looks terrible too...Protoss already have too many orb/sphere looking things; sentry, oracle and now this... Give us something cool looking that is actually decent to use... I do love how much emphasis they placed on every unit being 'anti-deathball'...seems their 1st priority with adding a new unit was whether or not it can be used in a death ball. I can see where they are coming from, doesn't mean they need to give us a bunch of highly situational gimmicks.
And they add the Tempest which is the perfect addition to the death ball.... doesn't make any sense.
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Canada13430 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:19 Ryder. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:01 Senx wrote:
And yeah I really hope the replicator gets scrapped, its going to be either completely useless because it gets nerfed into the ground or it'll be broken as fuck and make the game completely imbalanced.
No way to really balance such a unit. Good news is, if you look at the Blizzcon video preview of the replicant, Blizzard stated 'we're having slight difficulties in really engaging the strength of this unit' so hopefully we can take it as 'we are battling to find a place for this unit/balance it to fairness, so we will soon give up and actually give toss something decent' I really hope they do, such a ridiculous concept, and it looks terrible too...Protoss already have too many orb/sphere looking things; sentry, oracle and now this... Give us something cool looking that is actually decent to use... I do love how much emphasis they placed on every unit being 'anti-deathball'...seems their 1st priority with adding a new unit was whether or not it can be used in a death ball. I can see where they are coming from, doesn't mean they need to give us a bunch of highly situational gimmicks.
It means they can give us an attacking unit that doesnt have to work in a death ball. Protoss users don't really want death balls. We don't. We want to be able to split up our army but gateway units are very weak without support in direct fights. Its hard to be in more than one place at once with our stuff so we end up deathballing.
Also, how isn't the replicator a deathball unit? Make 6 replicators -- make 6 tanks and use them in conjunction with a colo/immo/zealot ball.
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Just had a vision...
If replicants get Lair/ Hive upgrades the shit's gonna be crazy.
Imagine a very early replicator stealing the very 1st Roach coming out of a Zerg's hatch:
Introducing the Terminatoroach:
3/3
+Speed
? +Burrow ?
+Tunneling Claws!!
...While youre still on Hatch tech this bitch will be sprinting around on your creep, burrowing all over the place, regenerating energy like crazy and armored as FUCK, 1-shoting your drones...
o_o
Talking about lack of harrass unit, there you go.
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On October 22 2011 23:19 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:16 s3rp wrote:On October 22 2011 23:08 Brotocol wrote:On October 22 2011 23:08 Maxie wrote:On October 22 2011 23:00 Fig wrote:
What is most baffling to me is that Blizzard says that late game chargelots can be dealt with by mmm micro, but they wanted to give terrans another option (the battle hellion). If you are giving the most versatile race more options, you best be working twice as hard on the other races.
One word: Mech. Why should mech not be viable in TvP? Perhaps bio doesn't need more ways to deal with mass chargelot, but mech does. Or I can say... "Gateway units should be viable against mech." Where did this idea come from that 100% of Terran strategies must be viable against everything? Why should mech be viable? Protoss allways uses Gateways Units in every unit combination especially in TvP .... they are the bulk of the army . Mech or Bio or maybe even Air ( probably not though ) is more like am i going Robo , Templar or maybe even Air units. You can't compare this Terran and Protoss directly. Protoss essentially has two builds in tvp: templar first or colossus first. Period. Of course there's variations, but it's not as big as mech vs bio, where the actual playstyle is completely different. As mech you have this slow, immobile army that is really strong, but easy to outmanouver; the opposite is true (should be true) for bio. Protoss on the other hand only can choose what aoe to use to have a fighting chance vs whatever our opponent is doing. Besides, look at BW. Terran in TvP has one choice: mech. But still, it's a great matchup.
In my opinion every Unit of every Race should at least kind of have a role in every MU at some point . And you should be able to play more then 1 unit combination to have a chance of winning . Alot of units are just useless right now most of the time .
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United Kingdom12071 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:24 Fig wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:19 Ryder. wrote:On October 22 2011 23:01 Senx wrote:
And yeah I really hope the replicator gets scrapped, its going to be either completely useless because it gets nerfed into the ground or it'll be broken as fuck and make the game completely imbalanced.
No way to really balance such a unit. Good news is, if you look at the Blizzcon video preview of the replicant, Blizzard stated 'we're having slight difficulties in really engaging the strength of this unit' so hopefully we can take it as 'we are battling to find a place for this unit/balance it to fairness, so we will soon give up and actually give toss something decent' I really hope they do, such a ridiculous concept, and it looks terrible too...Protoss already have too many orb/sphere looking things; sentry, oracle and now this... Give us something cool looking that is actually decent to use... I do love how much emphasis they placed on every unit being 'anti-deathball'...seems their 1st priority with adding a new unit was whether or not it can be used in a death ball. I can see where they are coming from, doesn't mean they need to give us a bunch of highly situational gimmicks. And they add the Tempest which is the perfect addition to the death ball.... doesn't make any sense.
It's anti air deathball. 
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Canada13430 Posts
On October 22 2011 23:25 GreyMasta wrote:
Just had a vision...
If replicants get Lair/ Hive upgrades. The shit's gonna be crazy.
Imagine a very early replicator stealing the very 1st Roach coming out of a Zerg's hatch:
Introducing the Terminatoroach:
3/3
+Speed
? +Burrow ?
+Tunneling Claws!!
...While youre still on Hatch tech this bitch will be sprinting around on your creep, burrowing all over the place, regenerating energy like crazy and armored as FUCK, 1-shoting your drones...
o_o
replicator OP nerf now
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On October 22 2011 23:23 Shurayuki wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 23:15 Brotocol wrote:On October 22 2011 23:12 dump wrote:On October 22 2011 23:08 Brotocol wrote:On October 22 2011 23:08 Maxie wrote:On October 22 2011 23:00 Fig wrote:
What is most baffling to me is that Blizzard says that late game chargelots can be dealt with by mmm micro, but they wanted to give terrans another option (the battle hellion). If you are giving the most versatile race more options, you best be working twice as hard on the other races.
One word: Mech. Why should mech not be viable in TvP? Perhaps bio doesn't need more ways to deal with mass chargelot, but mech does. Or I can say... "Gateway units should be viable against mech." Where did this idea come from that 100% of Terran strategies must be viable against everything? Why should mech be viable? You have a link to the quote in your sig? + Show Spoiler +First few seconds. Edit - fixed quote to include deathball portion. that's some nice video editing there...he actually said other people (as in the people here on TL *hint hint elbow*) say that (notice how the beginning of the phrase is cut out?) but whatevs keep it if you like
I'm looking for another video at the moment. If you can find one, please put up the link.
Here's one that starts slightly earlier:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OudzcVWpVoA
As far as I can tell, it's a new sentence. I'll continue searching though.
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EPT
