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On October 19 2011 10:35 Steak_ wrote:
Playing with a controller actually doesn't seem that bad if I think about it, you have ten buttons (up, down, left, right, back, start, A, B, X, Y), R3+R4 for left/right click, and could multiply your buttons by four by holding down triggers + buttons. Not sure how his mapping is different, but it's basically the same thing as a keyboard, but there's contrast between mouse + joystick.
People love to be ignorant trolls. Its the way of the internet, and has been between the computer and console communities for ages. They don't realize that keyboard and mouse are the objects we use today. It could be changed completely and people would still be able to adapt and perform at high levels eventually. It's warming up to the new way of playing and not limiting yourself to this "fake reality" they've made for themselves.
It seems like this whole argument between controller and keyboard/mouse is just a pride thing anyway.
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Its different, but I love my keyboard and mouse soo much. To each there own.
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On October 19 2011 08:12 Vaelone wrote:
I think the only RTS I've tried on console was Red Alert on PS1.
Never again for me.
But hey they already play FPS games seriously on consoles so why not RTS while at it? Before you even notice the SC2 pro scene will be playing on consoles instead of PC's.
shockershuddershiversshutters
What's so bad about shooters on console?
I played alot of shooters on both PC (CS 1.6, CSS, UT) and Console and from my experience Halo1 and Halo2 were the most individually skillful FPS games of them all. The skill gap in these two games was huge and it was basically impossible for a noob to even kill a semi-decent player nevermind a pro. Even noobs could get lucky kills on pros in CS 1.6 deathmatch. of course halo3 and reach are a totally different story because the games were dumbed down like hell to be more appealing to casual players. But point still is that console FPS are very skillful and not comparable to console RTS games.
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That is pretty cool man. I'll never do it, but still pretty cool.
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Whatever he feels comfortable with, I guess.
I think I saw a video and some photos of a guy who competed at an MLG with a stylus and pad, and actually doing surprisingly decent despite his supposed controller handicap.
I'm sure there are even a few people out there who use ball mice:
![[image loading]](http://www.fentek-ind.com/images/MLOTMW.jpg)
Granted, they're probably being handicaped by it, but I guess there is a certain fun/novelty factor to playing with exotic controls.
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Canada11471 Posts
How big exactly is his screen that it doesn't fit on his desk? Because personally I find that while big screens are nice, once the screen it's pushing too much into my periphery, I find it rather uncomfortable as I can't view the whole screen at once.
Forgive my ignorance, but exactly how does the building hotkeys, army hotkeys, and unit hotkeys work as I don't see how you get so much utility out of so few buttons... although 'e' is for everything.
Personally I can't stand controllers as my thumb control is awful compared to my left-right mouse button skills. Can you do the sort of old-school muta, or vulture micro with this sort of set-up? (Not the specifics, but more the high speed attack retreat that sky rockets your apm.) Although fun for a console gamer, it seems more of a limitation.
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Universe at War allowed for PC players to play vs Xbox players. Hilarity ensued. :D
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As impressive as this guy manages to make the best use of the controller (with a clever hotkey/macro setup, his macro was actually half decent for his level), it was still painful to watch.
His FF "micro" was so inefficient and slow that even though he was watching and controlling his zealot/sentry army the whole time, the FFs were still placed AFTER speedlings have left his ramp.
Painful... Just painful...
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I think if you're looking at the PC vs console debate you have to look at shooters. There's a large competitive scene for both PC shooters and console shooters, and its pretty universally acknowledged that mouse and keyboard allows for more control - to the point that some games released on both are balanced differently (snipers nerfed on PC). Despite this there's still a big competive scene on consoles, 'cause if everyone's playing at the same difficulty its all even.
So playing with a controller is almost certainly a handicap, but unless you're playing at a competitive level who really cares. Sure you may be a bit lower on the ladder from where you could be if you used a mouse/keyboard, but that's really not important.
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On October 19 2011 11:53 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 08:12 Vaelone wrote:
I think the only RTS I've tried on console was Red Alert on PS1.
Never again for me.
But hey they already play FPS games seriously on consoles so why not RTS while at it? Before you even notice the SC2 pro scene will be playing on consoles instead of PC's.
shockershuddershiversshutters What's so bad about shooters on console? I played alot of shooters on both PC (CS 1.6, CSS, UT) and Console and from my experience Halo1 and Halo2 were the most individually skillful FPS games of them all. The skill gap in these two games was huge and it was basically impossible for a noob to even kill a semi-decent player nevermind a pro. Even noobs could get lucky kills on pros in CS 1.6 deathmatch. of course halo3 and reach are a totally different story because the games were dumbed down like hell to be more appealing to casual players. But point still is that console FPS are very skillful and not comparable to console RTS games.
console shooters are far easier than PC shooters.. comparing getting a random kill in a DM server to getting a kill in halo is just plain dumb.. almost every gun in cs can kill in 1 hit with a headshot.. and any random noob can get a lucky headshot
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where in the vods show this isn't just a troll? until proof, i say this is fake.
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Sure he's pretty good and can get into diamond with the controller, maybe even masters if he keeps trying hard, but that doesn't mean it's a viable option. I'm sure someone could get into masters just using the mouse if he tried hard enough, but obviously using a keyboard will make you better.
I remember Day[9] said once he had a friend who got up to D+ or C- on iccup just using a mouse, and when he finally convinced him to use a keyboard he quickly shot up to C or C+. It's a silly self-restricting handicap that only sets you back.
On October 19 2011 12:38 Sanchonator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 11:53 doko100 wrote:On October 19 2011 08:12 Vaelone wrote:
I think the only RTS I've tried on console was Red Alert on PS1.
Never again for me.
But hey they already play FPS games seriously on consoles so why not RTS while at it? Before you even notice the SC2 pro scene will be playing on consoles instead of PC's.
shockershuddershiversshutters What's so bad about shooters on console? I played alot of shooters on both PC (CS 1.6, CSS, UT) and Console and from my experience Halo1 and Halo2 were the most individually skillful FPS games of them all. The skill gap in these two games was huge and it was basically impossible for a noob to even kill a semi-decent player nevermind a pro. Even noobs could get lucky kills on pros in CS 1.6 deathmatch. of course halo3 and reach are a totally different story because the games were dumbed down like hell to be more appealing to casual players. But point still is that console FPS are very skillful and not comparable to console RTS games. console shooters are far easier than PC shooters.. comparing getting a random kill in a DM server to getting a kill in halo is just plain dumb.. almost every gun in cs can kill in 1 hit with a headshot.. and any random noob can get a lucky headshot
I'd like to see Doko try to get even one random lucky kill on a top level Quake pro. He would probably die thousands of times before you could get one lucky kill, regardless of weapons. There is a reason that every quakecon Fatal1ty has a small event where anyone who can kill him once gets a free Fatal1ty line headset, and only ends up giving out a couple of them.
Compare that to Halo 2 or Halo 1, any noob can throw a lucky grenade, or maybe pick up the rocket launcher and get a kill or two in a game to 25.
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People are seriously arguing that a controller can ACTUALLY compete with a keyboard + mouse? And bringing up fps games makes that even less understandable.
Personally, I'm a pretty good css player (cal-i, esea-i, etc.) and at a recent lan in vancouver, had the opportunity to watch "top level" halo and black ops players (360.) After watching them, I can confidently say that even though I've only played halo a few times in my life, if I had a chance to learn the maps for a day or 2 and was were given a mouse, I would easily compete with those players (and most likely win.) Anyone who's ever been semi-decent at a pc shooter would never argue with that. Watching console shooters looks soooo slow, I can't stand it.
On October 19 2011 11:53 doko100 wrote:
I played alot of shooters on both PC (CS 1.6, CSS, UT) and Console and from my experience Halo1 and Halo2 were the most individually skillful FPS games of them all. The skill gap in these two games was huge and it was basically impossible for a noob to even kill a semi-decent player nevermind a pro. Even noobs could get lucky kills on pros in CS 1.6 deathmatch. of course halo3 and reach are a totally different story because the games were dumbed down like hell to be more appealing to casual players. But point still is that console FPS are very skillful and not comparable to console RTS games.
The only reason it's going to be harder to get a lucky kill on a halo pro is because it takes like 3x as many shots to kill someone. That's also why cs matches are 5v5. No 5 new players will EVER beat a team of 5 good players.
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On October 19 2011 11:56 eviltomahawk wrote:Whatever he feels comfortable with, I guess. I think I saw a video and some photos of a guy who competed at an MLG with a stylus and pad, and actually doing surprisingly decent despite his supposed controller handicap. I'm sure there are even a few people out there who use ball mice: Granted, they're probably being handicaped by it, but I guess there is a certain fun/novelty factor to playing with exotic controls.
Cyrax supposedly played with a trackball back in the day.
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Shit, why is he still using his controller if he's in diamond? He'd easily get to mid masters if he switched to keyboard/mouse.
Pretty cool vid tho. I wouldn't get past gold if i tried to use a controller, lol.
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Bangladesh2839 Posts
On October 19 2011 12:46 ODieN wrote:
where in the vods show this isn't just a troll? until proof, i say this is fake.
Look at his pointer movements. its pretty obvious.
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On October 19 2011 08:04 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 07:51 ayaz2810 wrote:On October 19 2011 07:45 Outsited wrote:
starcraft 1 came to consoles .... shutters..... .... shutters.....![[image loading]](http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/phillip2810/DSC_0002stonecastwindowsandshutters.jpg) He problaby meant shivers :/
*Shudders
On October 19 2011 11:56 eviltomahawk wrote:Whatever he feels comfortable with, I guess. I think I saw a video and some photos of a guy who competed at an MLG with a stylus and pad, and actually doing surprisingly decent despite his supposed controller handicap. I'm sure there are even a few people out there who use ball mice: Granted, they're probably being handicaped by it, but I guess there is a certain fun/novelty factor to playing with exotic controls.
with the way the reflection off the ball looks, I thought it was a HUGE scroll wheel at first XD
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Games like RTS's and MMO's should stay on the PC I would hate a world where RTS games were built on the console and then ported onto the PC...
I mean that has already happened with FPS games...so we aren't that far off.
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The only reason it's going to be harder to get a lucky kill on a halo pro is because it takes like 3x as many shots to kill someone. That's also why cs matches are 5v5. No 5 new players will EVER beat a team of 5 good players.
I don't think in any game in the history of the world would a new team of players will ever beat a team of good players.
Also lol at using a controller for Starcraft 2, although I'll give him props. I'm gonna bust out my joystick and play some FPS :D
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I want a copy of Starcraft 64.
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EPT
